Divine Sylogism...

[Hey You!]

P1) Romans 1:18; People Suppress the Truth in Unrighteousness

P2) Romans 2:1; When you Pass Judgment, you have no Excuse; you do the same things

P3) Romans 2:21; When you teach others, you teach yourself; when you Preach against Stealing, do you Steal?

C) Romans 9-18;

9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10 As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”


This is at Least Saint Paul's Syllogism, or at Most it is the Holy Spirit's Syllogism...

 

[GodsGrace]

P1) Romans 1:18; People Suppress the Truth in Unrighteousness

P2) Romans 2:1; When you Pass Judgment, you have no Excuse; you do the same things

P3) Romans 2:21; When you teach others, you teach yourself; when you Preach against Stealing, do you Steal?

C) Romans 9-18;

9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10 As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”


This is at Least Saint Paul's Syllogism, or at Most it is the Holy Spirit's Syllogism...

We ARE all under the power of sin..
or
We WERE under the power of sin?

The first sounds like us before salvation,
and the second (my words) would be after salvation.

 

[Hey You!]

We ARE all under the power of sin..
or
We WERE under the power of sin?

The first sounds like us before salvation,
and the second (my words) would be after salvation.

Yes, this is the Condition of the Lost...

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, this is the Condition of the Lost...

OK
Agreed.
Catch you tomorrow....

 

[Hey You!]

I think my goal for raising the topic is, to discuss why every Christian should never doubt that God wants us to know just how Depraved they were, and just how Lost the world is. This has to be the Perfect Syllogism, because of who Proposed it...

 

[Ritajanice]

I suppose my goal for raising the topic is, to discuss why every Christian should never doubt that God wants us to know just how Depraved we are. This has to be the Perfect Syllogism, because of who Proposed it...

A Born Again is not depraved....depraved is being alienated from God in spirit...a non believer.

A Born Again is not in the flesh, they are in the Spirit.
Romans 6:14 says, “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.” Twice in Romans 6, God says that believers in Christ are “free from sin”

 

[Hey You!]

A Born Again is not depraved....depraved is being alienated from God in spirit...a non believer.

A Born Again is not in the flesh, they are in the Spirit.
Romans 6:14 says, “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.” Twice in Romans 6, God says that believers in Christ are “free from sin”

Amen Sister...

I changed it...

 

[quietthinker]

We ARE all under the power of sin..
or
We WERE under the power of sin?

The first sounds like us before salvation,
and the second (my words) would be after salvation.

Is there selfishness in your/ my life? (ahhh, to mine the word 'selfishness') Even a cursory glance reveals self interest above that of the other. .....and for the Americans, private weapons for defence.....oh no, don't go there, I love my Smith and Wesson!
How ingrained and clever is that selfishness? Denial will certainly never let you/ me know.

 

[Hey You!]

Are Romans 1-3 the Deductive Reasoning of the Spirit, or are they the Inductive Reasoning of the Spirit?

 

[Hey You!]

Are Romans 1-3 the Deductive Reasoning of the Spirit, or are they the Inductive Reasoning of the Spirit?

Deductive reasoning proceeds from general premises to specific conclusions. Thus I believe it is a Divine Syllogism...

The Holy Spirit concludes there is no one who on their own Understands...

 

[Hey You!]

OK
Agreed.
Catch you tomorrow....

I like to use the Apologetic method of promoting "Shared Beliefs" to make points. When the person you are speaking to, agrees with you; it's a springboard to prove to them that they agree with your greater Doctrine, without knowing it...

The Divine Syllogism proves Total Depravity...

 

[Behold]

Are Romans 1-3 the Deductive Reasoning of the Spirit, or are they the Inductive Reasoning of the Spirit?

All scripture is God given by inspiration, and its to be discerned vs reasoned.

Reader..

Christianity is ALL Spiritual.

"God is A Spirit"
"Jesus is THAT Spirit"
We are born again "Spiritually".
The Bible is "Spiritually Discerned"
We are to "walk in the Spirit".
"they that have not the SPIRIT OF GOD do not belong to God".

So, there is no such thing as just reading reading reading a bible to understand it., as the words in a bible are spiritual , the entire book is spiritual, and it has to be understood by spiritual revelation OF the Knowledge that is contained inside the verses.

Let me give the reader a prime example......of how a cult read a verse and used it to create a Cult Doctrine.

Lets say you are reading the NT like its a ceral box or a newspaper.
You read......"Noah and familly were saved by water"..

And you natural mind says......>>WOW....... The Catholics are right, we are saved by Water.........

And then the Holy Spirit says inside you.....>"""Listen, if Noah and Family had gotten in the water, they would have DIED in the Water, along with all those JUDGED already , who are in the water = who are already dead""".

So, does the water save them? ???????????????????

NOPE.

And then the Holy Spirit shows you this......

The ARK, the wooden boat, that kept Moses and Family out of the flood water, is why they survived... So, what im showing you, is...the ARK is a type of "Cross of Christ".......where those who are there......are SAVED from God's Wrath.

See that Reader?
That is Noah's Ark, = as symbolic of The Cross of Christ as both are sanctuaries, from God's wrath.

YET.
Look...
The verse as WRITTEN says that the WATER saved NOAH.......and family.

No it didnt.

 

[Hey You!]

All scripture is God given by inspiration, and its to be discerned vs reasoned.

Reader..

Christianity is ALL Spiritual.

"God is A Spirit"
"Jesus is THAT Spirit"
We are born again "Spiritually".
The Bible is "Spiritually Discerned"
We are to "walk in the Spirit".
"they that have not the SPIRIT OF GOD do not belong to God".

So, there is no such thing as just reading reading reading a bible to understand it., as the words in a bible are spiritual , the entire book is spiritual, and it has to be understood by spiritual revelation OF the Knowledge that is contained inside the verses.

Let me give the reader a prime example......of how a cult read a verse and used it to create a Cult Doctrine.

Lets say you are reading the NT like its a ceral box or a newspaper.
You read......"Noah and familly were saved by water"..

And you natural mind says......>>WOW....... The Catholics are right, we are saved by Water.........

And then the Holy Spirit says inside you.....>"""Listen, if Noah and Family had gotten in the water, they would have DIED in the Water, along with all those JUDGED already , who are in the water = who are already dead""".

So, does the water save them? ???????????????????

NOPE.

And then the Holy Spirit shows you this......

The ARK, the wooden boat, that kept Moses and Family out of the flood water, is why they survived... So, what im showing you, is...the ARK is a type of "Cross of Christ".......where those who are there......are SAVED from God's Wrath.

See that Reader?
That is Noah's Ark, as symbolic of The Cross of Christ as both are sanctuaries, from God's wrath.

YET.
Look...
The verse as WRITTEN says that the WATER saved NOAH.......

No it didnt.

What do you think about a Lost person reading Romans 1-3 as a Syllogism they can understand? The things of God revealed to us there, are clearly understood by All; IE their Just Condemnation and their Total Depravity, leaving them without excuses. These things of God are what's understood. Being Saint Paul's Deductive Reasoning, All can naturally understand this...

I believe that the secret to getting Provisionists to agree with Total Depravity, is to show them this is a Syllogism they can't ignore...

 

[Hey You!]

All scripture is God given by inspiration, and its to be discerned vs reasoned.

Reader..

Christianity is ALL Spiritual.

"God is A Spirit"
"Jesus is THAT Spirit"
We are born again "Spiritually".
The Bible is "Spiritually Discerned"
We are to "walk in the Spirit".
"they that have not the SPIRIT OF GOD do not belong to God".

So, there is no such thing as just reading reading reading a bible to understand it., as the words in a bible are spiritual , the entire book is spiritual, and it has to be understood by spiritual revelation OF the Knowledge that is contained inside the verses.

Let me give the reader a prime example......of how a cult read a verse and used it to create a Cult Doctrine.

Lets say you are reading the NT like its a ceral box or a newspaper.
You read......"Noah and familly were saved by water"..

And you natural mind says......>>WOW....... The Catholics are right, we are saved by Water.........

And then the Holy Spirit says inside you.....>"""Listen, if Noah and Family had gotten in the water, they would have DIED in the Water, along with all those JUDGED already , who are in the water = who are already dead""".

So, does the water save them? ???????????????????

NOPE.

And then the Holy Spirit shows you this......

The ARK, the wooden boat, that kept Moses and Family out of the flood water, is why they survived... So, what im showing you, is...the ARK is a type of "Cross of Christ".......where those who are there......are SAVED from God's Wrath.

See that Reader?
That is Noah's Ark, = as symbolic of The Cross of Christ as both are sanctuaries, from God's wrath.

YET.
Look...
The verse as WRITTEN says that the WATER saved NOAH.......and family.

No it didnt.

Noah’s real Ark ~ by ReverendRV * July 22

1st Peter 3:20 NIV; those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood.

One of the most amazing things about the Bible is that in the Old Testament, there are SO many pictures of Christ before he was even born. You ask, “What do you mean?” The Old Testament is full of what Theologians call ‘Types’; these are examples where God meant to teach Israel about Redemption, and these examples pointed to a future Messiah. One of my favorite Old Testament Types of Jesus, is that of Noah’s Ark. ~ There came a time that the wickedness of Mankind gave cause for God to judge and condemn the world by flooding it to death. Noah found Grace in the eyes of God and was given time to build an Ark which would Save them. Everyone mocked Noah but before the rains came, God closed him and his family safely within the Ark. The waters rose but the Ark sailed safely through the seas of God’s Wrath, and Noah’s family came out alive on the other side. ~ “But why should this be important to me?”

The reason is because there is a future Wrath of God coming; but this time by Fire. God gave the world another chance when he made his Ten Commandments known. ~ Have you ever told a Lie? What do you call people who Lie about you? A Liar, right? Have you ever stolen anything? What would you call anyone who cheated you out of something that is rightfully yours? A Thief, right? Have you ever cheated with a Married person? Then you’ve stolen from their Spouse and are an Adulterous Burglar at Heart. ~ These are just some of the Ten Commandments, if God judged you by this standard, would you be innocent or guilty? Guilty Sinners navigate through eternity in the lake of fire without an Ark to keep them from suffering the Wrath of God. Here’s your last chance; Jesus, the New Testament Anti Type of the Ark…

An Old Testament Type points to the future reality which it represented; a New Testament Anti Type points back to the Old Testament Type. Saint Peter said that Water Baptism is a Type which pictured being Saved from the Wrath of God by Noah’s Ark. Jesus Christ is like that Ark which we enter, and God closes the door behind us. He was the only person who never Sinned, and this made him a sea worthy vessel to make it through the Wrath of God. Jesus received God’s Wrath and died on a Cross, shedding his blood to pay for our Sin. We’re Saved by Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ as our risen Lord and Savior, apart from our trying to Work ourselves into sea worthy condition; it’s too late for that. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God; and find a Bible believing Church who will Baptize you. ~ Noah’s Ark was shaped like a casket. Many believe that the Ark went under during the storm but rose from the depths. Baptism represents the death, burial and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. There’s a Church Denomination that teaches Baptism Saves you, but Jesus said Baptism makes us students in his Class. This Denomination uses a Verse which tells us to be Baptized for the Remission of Sins; but the word ‘for’ means ‘because of’. If we read a Wanted Poster and it said a man is wanted ‘for’ Murder, we don’t apply for the job; he is wanted because of Murder. Get Baptized because you believe in Jesus Christ, because he was Baptized in the Wrath of God for you. Now God’s Wrath has been Quenched…

1st Peter 3:21 NKJV; There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

 

[Behold]

What do you think about a Lost person reading Romans 1-3 as a Syllogism they can understand?

Most lost people dont own a bible......or read one.

God will open their ears to an understanding that they are a sinner, they need to be saved, and Jesus is the only Way.

They respond to the : Gospel, and God gets this to a person in many different ways.

"Faith comes by Hearing"...... The Gospel.

Total Depravity,

Paul does not teach "Total Depravity"

John Calvinism and his disciples teach this idea as his//their theology.

agree with Total Depravity,

Paul does not teach Total Depravity, as this is a concept created by Calvinists.

Paul teaches that all have sinned and there is none righteous,......and that Christ is the only way for a sinner to receive "The Gift of Righteousness", and that believers are "justified by faith" without the deeds of the law.

 

[Behold]

1st Peter 3:21 NKJV; There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

To have a good conscience toward God means that we have Peace with God, through The Cross of Christ.....and the resurrection is our "hope".

The born again are "begotten unto a lively Hope" = That Jesus is risen from dead.

 

[Hey You!]

Most lost people dont own a bible......or read one.

God will open their ears to an understanding that they are a sinner, they need to be saved, and Jesus is the only Way.

They respond to the : Gospel, and God gets this to a person in many different ways.

"Faith comes by Hearing"...... The Gospel.




Paul does not teach "Total Depravity"

John Calvinism and his disciples teaches this idea as his//their theology.



Paul does not teach Total Depravity, as this is a concept created by Calvinists.

Paul teaches that all have sinned and there is none righteous,......and that Christ is the only way for a sinner to receive "The Gift of Righteousness", and that believers are "justified by faith" without the deeds of the law.

Would you agree that Romans 3:9-18 is the Conclusion to the Premises of his Syllogism? That their/All throats are as an open grave? No one can Confess Jesus is LORD with a throat like this; right?

That's Total Depravity...

 

[Behold]

Would you agree that Romans 3:9-18 is the Conclusion to the Premises of his Syllogism? That their/All throats are as an open grave? No one can Confess Jesus is LORD with a throat like this; right?

That's Total Depravity...

Well, there is a soon coming day when every knee shall bow, in heaven, on earth, and below it, where all will say that "Jesus is Lord" and that is everyone.........Christian or non.

John Calvinism's idea of Total Depravity, is related to His false concept that only the pre-destined can believe in Jesus.

So, He came up with this false concept that a person can't of themselves believe in God.

And to create that idea, as a theology, he had to deny that anyone has free will to BELIEVE in Christ.

So, once He created the false concept that no one has free will, then he and his followers connected total depravity into that theological concept, along with : predestination.

And to invent all that he had to have an origiana FALSE basis that was utterly false, and so what He did, was ...>He redefined "God's Foreknowledge" as "God Pre-destines".

So, once He redefined God knowing as God causing, and then added "and you have no free will",.. then added ""and you are totally depraved"......and finished it off with ... so, you have to be "pre-chosen" to trust in Christ before you are born, he had the book published.... His Theology and the later evolution of it, was UP and Running.

That is HIS and his origianl disciples little circular reasoning doctrine of devils that has deceived billions of people, who define themselves as a "Calvinist".

 

[Hey You!]

Well, there is a soon coming day when every knee shall bow, in heaven, on earth, and below it, where all will say that "Jesus is Lord" and that is everyone.........Christian or non.

John Calvinism's idea of Total Depravity, is related to His false concept that only the pre-destined can believe in Jesus.

So, He came up with this false concept that a person can't of themselves believe in God.

And to create that idea, as a theology, he had to deny that anyone has free will to BELIEVE in Christ.

So, once He created the false concept that no one has free will, then he and his followers connected total depravity into that theological concept, along with : predestination.

And to invent all that he had to have an origiana FALSE basis that was utterly false, and so what He did, was ...>He redefined "God's Foreknowledge" as "God Pre-destines".

So, once He redefined God knowing as God causing, and then added "and you have no free will",.. then added ""and you are totally depraved"......and finished it off with ... so, you have to be "pre-chosen" to trust in Christ before you are born, he had the book published.... His Theology and the later evolution of it, was UP and Running.

That is HIS and his origianl disciples little circular reasoning doctrine of devils that has deceived billions of people, who define themselves as a "Calvinist".

How about Saint Paul's Syllogism in Romans 1-3? Forget John Calvin; Jacob Arminius did. Arminius taught Total Depravity, so we can dismiss Calvin as the boogeyman...

Didn't Saint Paul, Inspired by the Holy Spirit, use Deductive Reasoning to develop a Syllogism which Concludes that All are under Sin; to the Point their throats are as an open grave?

If not Arminius' Doctrine of Total Depravity, what is this called under your Theology?

Original Sin?

 

[Hey You!]

Well, there is a soon coming day when every knee shall bow, in heaven, on earth, and below it, where all will say that "Jesus is Lord" and that is everyone.........Christian or non.

Notice how I keep returning to the OP? I've been on Forums a LONG time, and I have seen how Posters 'wander around'; to not answer the question. I will always return to the OP. Mainly because I use Shared Beliefs, to make my main point. I need you to state the obvious; Romans 1-3 IS a Divine Syllogism of the Deductive Reasoning of God...

Reread my OP, and see if the Syllogism can be denied...