do the ends justify the means?

[Strat]

I lol at the replies to some of your posts. Clearly many of them are not read in context. I'm certain if you we're speaking with us face to face the point of conversational meaning would be easily understood. It's a shame how much is lost when trying to communicate with text.

Nonsense is easily understood and dismissed..what context exist in which anyone can be led to God by lies and anything good is accomplished by commiting sin...are these questions for christians or unbelievers ? anyone claiming to be a christian should know the answer and the absurdity of the question....perhaps you think this individual is just too clever...i do not.

It is difficult to be clearly understood on these boards - this is certain. But there is a difference between readers who want to understand and those who want to muddy the waters as much as possible.

I also think I am not being as clear as I have been in the past.....I think I am getting a bit bored.

Quite the contrary,your intent is crystal clear

Ok - all my posts are ridiculous or idiotic

I think I am saving people, rather than God

My ego forces me to repeat the same stuff over and over

blah, blah, blah, blah-blah.

Run along now and let the adults talk.

Like any liberal your debating skills are quite inadequate,you make the debate all about you as if you matter...which turns the whole thing into an emotional whine fest on your part...please try to do better.

 

[xBluxTunicx82]

agreed. Paul really knew how to meet people where they were at. A Pharisee would have accused Paul of being ecumenical or pandering to the Greeks.

It also helps that these Greeks were Israelites, they had the truth written on their hearts, this is why they knew of an unknown 'god', who was considered above even zeus. A lot of Greek and even Roman mythology contains many references to stories found in the Bible. This is because, by word of mouth passed down through the generations, the Israelites had retained a little knowledge of God and His truth. At least enough to understand the disciples when they went to the lost House of Jacob/Israel

Ok - all my posts are ridiculous or idiotic

I think I am saving people, rather than God

My ego forces me to repeat the same stuff over and over

blah, blah, blah, blah-blah.

Run along now and let the adults talk.

i have to agree with Strat on this.

 

[aspen]

Nonsense is easily understood and dismissed..what context exist in which anyone can be led to God by lies and anything good is accomplished by commiting sin...are these questions for christians or unbelievers ? anyone claiming to be a christian should know the answer and the absurdity of the question....perhaps you think this individual is just too clever...i do not.



Quite the contrary,your intent is crystal clear



Like any liberal your debating skills are quite inadequate,you make the debate all about you as if you matter...which turns the whole thing into an emotional whine fest on your part...please try to do better.

Sorry....I try not to use ad hominem when I have a discussion. I am not trying win. If the difference between a liberal and a conservation is a discussion between equals and an attempt to score points by shutting down your opponent through personal attacks - you got me, I am a liberal.

Also, we all matter enough for Christ to die for us - sorry that gets in the way of your need for self flagellation and degradation of everyone you meet, but it is true. If Christ died for us, the least we can do is love each other.

You have not seen my debating skills because we are not debating. The truth needs no defense.

It also helps that these Greeks were Israelites, they had the truth written on their hearts, this is why they knew of an unknown 'god', who was considered above even zeus. A lot of Greek and even Roman mythology contains many references to stories found in the Bible. This is because, by word of mouth passed down through the generations, the Israelites had retained a little knowledge of God and His truth. At least enough to understand the disciples when they went to the lost House of Jacob/Israel

Where does the Bible Say that Paul was preaching to Greek Israelites? The passage from Acts you are referring to is Acts 17:22 - [sup]18 [/sup]A group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to debate with him. Some of them asked, “What is this babbler trying to say?” Others remarked, “He seems to be advocating foreign gods.” They said this because Paul was preaching the good news about Jesus and the resurrection. [sup]19 [/sup]Then they took him and brought him to a meeting of the Areopagus, where they said to him, “May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? [sup]20 [/sup]You are bringing some strange ideas to our ears, and we would like to know what they mean.” [sup]21 [/sup](All the Athenians and the foreigners who lived there spent their time doing nothing but talking about and listening to the latest ideas.)
[sup]22 [/sup]Paul then stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus and said: “People of Athens! I see that in every way you are very religious. [sup]23 [/sup]For as I walked around and looked carefully at your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: to an unknown god. So you are ignorant of the very thing you worship —and this is what I am going to proclaim to you.

Your interpretation is not correct. According to the text, Paul was speaking to Greek citizens and Jewish citizens - including Stoics and Epicurean philosophers.

i have to agree with Strat on this.

Ok.

 

[xBluxTunicx82]

Well primarily because Christ told them to go 'only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel'. Not jews... Paul, tells us that he was a member of the tribe of Benjamin(which was of the Southern Kingdom of Judah, hence the terrible use of the word 'jew'.). History shows that the Scythians migrated into Greece, and the tribe of Dan was responsible for much of the settling, and they truly left their mark in such places as the Danube river, Denmark, MaceDONia... Its pretty straightforward when you really look into it.

 

[Strat]

Sorry....I try not to use ad hominem when I have a discussion. I am not trying win. If the difference between a liberal and a conservation is a discussion between equals and an attempt to score points by shutting down your opponent through personal attacks - you got me, I am a liberal.

Also, we all matter enough for Christ to die for us - sorry that gets in the way of your need for self flagellation and degradation of everyone you meet, but it is true. If Christ died for us, the least we can do is love each other.

You have not seen my debating skills because we are not debating. The truth needs no defense.

You have not presented any truth apart from twisted liberal logic and you make it personal by including something about yourself in almost every post you make....quit talking about yourself and maybe your obsession will go away.....when i say you don't matter it is not a reference to your value as a person but the value of your opinions in relation to the word of God...my opinions mean nothing...this is why i ask you to support what you say with scripture....which you never do.

 

[aspen]

You have not presented any truth apart from twisted liberal logic and you make it personal by including something about yourself in almost every post you make....quit talking about yourself and maybe your obsession will go away.....when i say you don't matter it is not a reference to your value as a person but the value of your opinions in relation to the word of God...my opinions mean nothing...this is why i ask you to support what you say with scripture....which you never do.

Since when can we generate truth? This is an OPINION board. All we can do is comment (give our opinion) on truth.

Even if this was a board where only verses were allowed, as a way of trying eliminate opinion - it would not be possible because the very selection of the verses requires our opinion!

To claim that you can be a perfect mouthpiece for God is arrogant. All we can do is comment on His truth.

Also, I believe your posts have focused more on me than my have - that's what ad hominem means - it is a term used in debate, BTW.

Well primarily because Christ told them to go 'only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel'. Not jews... Paul, tells us that he was a member of the tribe of Benjamin(which was of the Southern Kingdom of Judah, hence the terrible use of the word 'jew'.). History shows that the Scythians migrated into Greece, and the tribe of Dan was responsible for much of the settling, and they truly left their mark in such places as the Danube river, Denmark, MaceDONia... Its pretty straightforward when you really look into it.

Why are the majority of your posts focused on Jewish people?

 

[xBluxTunicx82]

Its not, its focused on the Israelite people, and the message in scripture concerning them. Jewish people have no claim in anything of Christ and to even consider so is anti Christian. You say we are to put our 'opinions' on the scripture. I disagree, if we go through and use our opinions to choose verses, then we risk taking the entire message out of context. Its not a pick your own adventure book, and from beginning to end, the Bible deals with Israel/Jacob, not jews. I put it out there because it should be known the truth about things, if it is wrong for me to simply state facts, then perhaps I am in the wrong place!

 

[aspen]

Its not, its focused on the Israelite people, and the message in scripture concerning them. Jewish people have no claim in anything of Christ and to even consider so is anti Christian. You say we are to put our 'opinions' on the scripture. I disagree, if we go through and use our opinions to choose verses, then we risk taking the entire message out of context. Its not a pick your own adventure book, and from beginning to end, the Bible deals with Israel/Jacob, not jews. I put it out there because it should be known the truth about things, if it is wrong for me to simply state facts, then perhaps I am in the wrong place!

Abraham was the father of the Jewish people. There is simply no reason to make arbitrary distinctions between tribes unless you want to distance yourself from Jewish people for personal reasons.

All we can do is comment on truth.

 

[xBluxTunicx82]

But noone in Abrahams lineage is called a Jew, they are Israelites, and only after Jacob contended for the birthright, while his brother Esau, the proginitor of the Edomite peoples(whom the Jews say they are of) married into a heathen culture that was forbidden by God.

The first time you even see the word jew is in 2 Kings... and the Israelites(not jews) are fighting the Jews, they drove them out of Elath...
Never, and i mean never, were any Israelites called jews. Those of the tribe of Judah, are Judahites... there is an enormous difference.

 

[aspen]

But noone in Abrahams lineage is called a Jew, they are Israelites, and only after Jacob contended for the birthright, while his brother Esau, the proginitor of the Edomite peoples(whom the Jews say they are of) married into a heathen culture that was forbidden by God.

The first time you even see the word jew is in 2 Kings... and the Israelites(not jews) are fighting the Jews, they drove them out of Elath...
Never, and i mean never, were any Israelites called jews. Those of the tribe of Judah, are Judahites... there is an enormous difference.

The Edomites were converted to Judaism and the kingdom of Edom to exist. You are making an arbitrary distinction.

 

[xBluxTunicx82]

King Herod was an Edomite... an evil man. Esau founded the Edomites, and according to Malachi and Romans, God hates Esau.... just saying

 

[Strat]

Since when can we generate truth? This is an OPINION board. All we can do is comment (give our opinion) on truth.

Even if this was a board where only verses were allowed, as a way of trying eliminate opinion - it would not be possible because the very selection of the verses requires our opinion!

To claim that you can be a perfect mouthpiece for God is arrogant. All we can do is comment on His truth.

Also, I believe your posts have focused more on me than my have - that's what ad hominem means - it is a term used in debate, BTW.



Why are the majority of your posts focused on Jewish people?

Where have i expressed any complaints about what you have said about me ?.... i take what you say about me as a compliment and an indication that i am on the right track....opinions about truth ? of course liberals think everything is up for debate....water isn't wet,its moist and moist doesn't mean wet,it means damp.....so water isn't wet or some similar nonsense,anything to make sin not be sin.

The comments i have made about you are deserved because you are spreading lies...the lie that one can think Homosexuality is a sin yet support Homosexual "marriage" in the culture because the culture is not christian...do you feel the same way about abortion ?.The bible says that when you support evil and evil doers there deeds are credited to you...you are a partaker of their sins regardless of the culture....sin is sin both in and out of the church.The church no longer disciplines itself which is its right and duty so the rest of society sees us as nothing but a bunch of hypocrites which is not individually true but collectively it is true.

The fact is you only support the enforcement of one aspect of christianity in the culture and you pervert even that....the enabling of sin and sinful behaviour via socialism and mandatory benevolence.....there is nothing biblical about any of your positions.....you support sin period...and pervert the word "love" in the process.

 

[aspen]

Where have i expressed any complaints about what you have said about me ?.... i take what you say about me as a compliment and an indication that i am on the right track....opinions about truth ? of course liberals think everything is up for debate....water isn't wet,its moist and moist doesn't mean wet,it means damp.....so water isn't wet or some similar nonsense,anything to make sin not be sin.

The comments i have made about you are deserved because you are spreading lies...the lie that one can think Homosexuality is a sin yet support Homosexual "marriage" in the culture because the culture is not christian...do you feel the same way about abortion ?.The bible says that when you support evil and evil doers there deeds are credited to you...you are a partaker of their sins regardless of the culture....sin is sin both in and out of the church.The church no longer disciplines itself which is its right and duty so the rest of society sees us as nothing but a bunch of hypocrites which is not individually true but collectively it is true.

Is abortion an action that takes place between to consenting adults? Seems to me there is a baby involved. Does abortion hurt anyone? Yes. So why would I support abortion based on my criteria for support homosexuality outside the church?

Umm, I hope you not under the impression that I am hurt by your name calling and childish reasoning about me - lol. I am just pointing out how you are resorting to the tactics of a five year old to cover up you inability to have an adult discussion.

You name call because I deserve it - oh boy........

 

[grandma dolittle]

The ends never justify the means. Lying cannot be from nor for God as satan is the father of lies. you cannot get anyone to accept Christ, only the Holy Spirit has that role. You may lead them to the point of acceptance, but that is as far as you can go. A Christian who lies, steals, and or cheat to create the end puts stumbling blocks in front of others and that is a dangerous thing to do.

 

[Strat]

Is abortion an action that takes place between to consenting adults? Seems to me there is a baby involved. Does abortion hurt anyone? Yes. So why would I support abortion based on my criteria for support homosexuality outside the church?

Umm, I hope you not under the impression that I am hurt by your name calling and childish reasoning about me - lol. I am just pointing out how you are resorting to the tactics of a five year old to cover up you inability to have an adult discussion.

You name call because I deserve it - oh boy........

I don't care whether you are or not...can you not get that through your head.....what name have i called you...you are a liberal, that is not a name it is a beleif system...a philosophy...you should support abortion because you say we cannot impose christian values on a secular society...surely you are not singling out abortion as a worse sin like you accuse others of doing in regard to homosexuality...you talk about the meaning of words and you don't even know the meaning of the word name...too funny,once again you start out a post with something about you...nobody cares Aspen...get over yourself....discuss the issues and forget Aspen...back up your positions with scripture

 

[aspen]

I don't care whether you are or not...can you not get that through your head.....what name have i called you...you are a liberal, that is not a name it is a beleif system...a philosophy...you should support abortion because you say we cannot impose christian values on a secular society...surely you are not singling out abortion as a worse sin like you accuse others of doing in regard to homosexuality...you talk about the meaning of words and you don't even know the meaning of the word name...too funny,once again you start out a post with something about you...nobody cares Aspen...get over yourself....discuss the issues and forget Aspen...back up your positions with scripture

You are posting on a thread I started - derailing it by not sticking to the topic and you are calling people to forget about my opinions? How about this - if you do not like my opinions, stop posting and reading and derailing the topics on the thread I start.

Thanks.

 

[Strat]

You are posting on a thread I started - derailing it by not sticking to the topic and you are calling people to forget about my opinions? How about this - if you do not like my opinions, stop posting and reading and derailing the topics on the thread I start.

Thanks.

When you start running things and making the rules here get back to me...your comments in the Eternal punishment thread say it all...your opinions ? you are welcome to them,the damnable heresies that they are.....i will oppose and challenge them...pull your panties up and deal with it.

 

[xBluxTunicx82]

Also, there is not really such a thing as a 'liberal' Christian. Liberalism embraces universalism and the works of man, Christianity embraces the Word of God and the same works of God. I wonder how often these self proclaimed Christians have actually 'studied to show themselves approved'. Or do they really just pick their own adventure by taking the verses that sound good and discarding the rest.

In my studies, there have been a lot of lessons taught that I had to rearrange my entire paradigm, so that I may seek the glory of God, and perhaps receive His blessing. To be delivered from evil and have my enemies led astray by His hand.

We are not to live by bread alone, but by what? EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD! If you throw out this simple teaching of Christ, then you are throwing away Christ, period.

You post a thread, which is fine and dandy, but you can't get angry or disheveled when those of differing 'opinions' point out your scriptural deficiencies. I have asked you on numerous threads to provide scripture supporting your philosophy, and you haven't... I will gladly do the same for my views when you provide mine. But until you do, I will not cast 'pearls before swine', Christ taught against it.

 

[grandma dolittle]

Also, there is not really such a thing as a 'liberal' Christian. Liberalism embraces universalism and the works of man, Christianity embraces the Word of God and the same works of God. I wonder how often these self proclaimed Christians have actually 'studied to show themselves approved'. Or do they really just pick their own adventure by taking the verses that sound good and discarding the rest.

In my studies, there have been a lot of lessons taught that I had to rearrange my entire paradigm, so that I may seek the glory of God, and perhaps receive His blessing. To be delivered from evil and have my enemies led astray by His hand.

We are not to live by bread alone, but by what? EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD! If you throw out this simple teaching of Christ, then you are throwing away Christ, period.

You post a thread, which is fine and dandy, but you can't get angry or disheveled when those of differing 'opinions' point out your scriptural deficiencies. I have asked you on numerous threads to provide scripture supporting your philosophy, and you haven't... I will gladly do the same for my views when you provide mine. But until you do, I will not cast 'pearls before swine', Christ taught against it.

Amen! You are so right. the Bible also said to not mock God or tempt him. To do either is playing a dangerous game. A Christian lives by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, which is the Bible. One day every knee shall bow and every mouth shall confess, so we had better be sure all we are confessing to him is our love.

 

[aspen]

When you start running things and making the rules here get back to me...your comments in the Eternal punishment thread say it all...your opinions ? you are welcome to them,the damnable heresies that they are.....i will oppose and challenge them...pull your panties up and deal with it.

Name one heresy. I've noticed that you have had trouble producing evidence for the charges you constantly try to pin on me - you are all bark and no bite. For the future, I have already heard that my 'pants are on fire - now they are out!!' And, that 'you're rubber, and I am glue; what sticks to me doesn't stick to you' - I am looking for real evidence of heresy and the exact name of the heresy I am teaching - if not possible - then bark to yourself.

Also, there is not really such a thing as a 'liberal' Christian.

Oh really? So theologians whose opinions happen to be left of yours are simply heretics? How grandious of you.

Liberalism embraces universalism and the works of man,

My beliefs are left of yours and I do not believe in universalism. Works of men are a reality in this world, but have nothing to do with justification or sanctification.

Christianity embraces the Word of God and the same works of God.

And the sun rises in the East.

I wonder how often these self proclaimed Christians have actually 'studied to show themselves approved'.

You mean liars that call themselves Christians, but do not agree with you on doctrine so prove themselves to be liars? Did they really study and understand you take on the truth and then openly rebel against it or are they just too lazy to bother reading in the first place?

Or do they really just pick their own adventure by taking the verses that sound good and discarding the rest.

Oh the arrogance of not agreeing with you on doctrine.....

In my studies, there have been a lot of lessons taught that I had to rearrange my entire paradigm, so that I may seek the glory of God, and perhaps receive His blessing. To be delivered from evil and have my enemies led astray by His hand.

Frightening! You mean you have 'checked your brain at the door' in order to adopted your peer group's literal translation of the Bible, despite the small quite voice trying to reach you with a message of love? Christianity started out using reason to defend itself against heresy and paganism in the early centuries - when did we decide it was ungodly?

We are not to live by bread alone, but by what? EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD! If you throw out this simple teaching of Christ, then you are throwing away Christ, period.

You mean the LITERAL INTERPRETATION of the teachings of Jesus, right?

You post a thread, which is fine and dandy, but you can't get angry or disheveled when those of differing 'opinions' point out your scriptural deficiencies.

I welcome correction; name calling and sarcasm and judgment about my relationship with God, based on my opinion? not so much

I have asked you on numerous threads to provide scripture supporting your philosophy, and you haven't... I will gladly do the same for my views when you provide mine. But until you do, I will not cast 'pearls before swine', Christ taught against it.

Your choice. No one is forcing you to interact with me. I produce verses to support my opinion when I choose to do so. I do not throw pearls (verses) before swine on your command. Why should I produce a verse for you to shoot down?

Amen! You are so right. the Bible also said to not mock God or tempt him. To do either is playing a dangerous game. A Christian lives by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God, which is the Bible. One day every knee shall bow and every mouth shall confess, so we had better be sure all we are confessing to him is our love.

Agreed.