Do We Receive Salvation At Once, When We Said The Sinners Prayer?
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Eternally Grateful
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Eternally Grateful
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mailmandan
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mailmandan
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Speaking of immersion, in Luke 12:50, Jesus said - "But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how distressed I am till it is accomplished!" Of course Jesus was not distressed about water baptism, but being "immersed" into suffering, namely His sacrificial death on the cross.
Eternally Grateful
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yes, let alone another use of the word.
You are right about the water...
Water baptism is a carryover from part of the Levitical Law. There are many examples of people in the Old Testament who would wash themselves with water as a final step to being clean. Water baptism was an outward sign of washing, and then you would be clean to God. Baptism in water, and the need to be circumcised passed away with the coming of Pentecost, as did the other Levitical Laws. To be led by the spirit is to not be under the yoke of bondage with the extreme of legalism, seeking the works of the flesh from the old covenant concerning the past Law administration that was written to Israel.
It's clear from the gospels that water baptism had to do with the kingdom, which was ministered by John who was known as the Baptizer, and not a minister for the Church of God. John who was a prophet functioning under the old covenant was appointed by God to prepare and confirm the promises made to Israel. His message was to tell those who lived under the old covenant that the king had come and “the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” He used water as a sign to baptize those who believed the promised Messiah would be coming in just a matter of months and to illustrate that he would be the Christ, who would baptize them not with material water, but with holy spirit, which is “power from on high.” From the habit of tradition, and only for a short period of time, a small handful of people were baptized with water into the New Testament, but never again afterwards.
In the epistles written just a little bit past the beginning of the New Testament is where we read the only time water baptism is mentioned is to note there is no more need for it, and that we are now to be baptized with holy spirit. And this is why in Acts 2:38, Peter commands “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ.” In Acts 8:16, Peter and John “baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” In Acts 10:48, Peter “commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.” In Romans 6:3, it declares “that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ.” There is not one exception to this practice where we see water baptism, which belonged to the time period when Christ walked the earth, being used once the Church of God had become established.
Don't confuse receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit, the indwelling of the Spirit, with baptism of the Holy Spirit. Baptism of the Holy Spirit happened when and to whom? And how does this occur according to scripture? The 11 apostles were baptized in this manner in Acts 2, fulfilling John the Baptist's words, and that was evidence of the power from on high promised to THEM, the 11, as recorded in Luke 24:49.
We don't receive the gift of God who is The Holy Spirit. We receive his gift which is holy spirit. Now I'm afraid to ask this question buy I must. What's the difference between the gift of the holy spirit and the baptism of the holy spirit?
The scripture is clear. It (Acts 2:38) says otherwise. It says "receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" which is the indwelling of the Spirit itself.
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
And to your 2nd point, we are baptized into Christ, immersed into, but also receive the Spirit which dwells or resides in us at the time we are immersed into him. So, is there a difference? Yes, but a subtle one. The further confusion, which I probably didn't explain well in my haste previously, was that most confuse the falling of the Spirit as I mentioned before, as recorded in Acts 2 and as happened to the 11 apostles, as the baptism of the Spirit, but in reality, this was a manifistasltion of the Spirit, or commonly referred to as one of the gifts (plural) of the Spirit, but not the gift of the Spirit itself which is received upon baptism into the body of Christ. The various gifts, or manifestations of the Spirit as more appropriately termed, are those listed in 1Cor 12:8-10.
I asked atheists to prayer for me, some of them did, i asked them to because i wanted them to start including prayer into their lives. They were laughing and said i prayed for you. They seemed serious. The point i am making is praying is an effect and purpose but it doesnt define a christian. The lifestyle and intentions do.
Who did they pray to? Who listened? Their prayers are meaningless and worthless.
I do not agree or understand what you think the spirit of Christ is. And then there's this...
The words “HOLY SPIRIT” in the Bible are primarily used in two very different ways: One way is to refer to God Himself and the other is referring to God’s nature that He gives to people. God is holy and is spirit and therefore “the Holy Spirit” with a capital “H” and a capital “S” is one of the many “names” or designations for God. God gives His holy spirit nature to people as a gift and when HOLY SPIRIT is used that way it should be translated as the “holy spirit” with a lowercase “h” and a lowercase “s.” The Bible says there is one God, and one Lord, who is the man Jesus Christ; and one gift of the holy spirit. Most Christians are aware that the original manuscripts of the Bible were written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. However, it's not well known that Hebrew and Aramaic do not have upper-case and lower-case letters, but rather they just have one form for their letters.
Greek does have upper and lower-case letters, but the early Greek manuscripts were all written with only upper-case letters. Therefore, the early manuscripts had no such thing as the “Holy Spirit” or the “holy spirit” because what was always written was the "HOLY SPIRIT." The capital or lower-case letters are always a translator’s interpretation whenever we read “Holy Spirit” or “holy spirit” or “Spirit” or “spirit” in the English Bible. The difference is usually due to the theology of the translator. The bottom line is we cannot know from the Hebrew or Greek texts whether the Author meant the “Holy Spirit” or the “holy spirit” because we must decide based on the context and scope of Scripture whether the reference being made is to God or God’s gift.
You said a lot of stuff but no scripture. The spirit or breath of life that we all have is not the gift of the Holy Ghost as in Acts 2:38. You're insinuating, they are one in the same with no differentiation. It's clear from the scriptures that the Holy Ghost/Spirit that Christians relate to is quite different than simply the spirit or breath of life that all have, both Christian and non Christian. The gift of the Holy Ghost that Christians receive is unique.
You must have me confused with someone else. You can't show me where I ever said the soul and the spirit are the same. What I said else where was most think they are. Not me. And nobody can give Scripture on how the words are used in the Bible since all who wrote the Bible were dead when men began making copies into English.
I don't have you confused, but maybe just misunderstood your previous comments. And the spirit and the soul are not one in the same since they can be divided nor did I insinuate you said that.
Getting back to the subject, you'll have to better explain what you mean regarding the spirit/Spirit and the gift of the Holy Ghost/Spirit and/or it's manifestations (gifts).
There's a lot to unpack in your last sentence. Let's start with the spirit. The Spirit is God. We do not get God when we are saved or born again or whatever you want to call it. It's not God's fault the translators used upper or lower case words when making copies. Most of the original manuscripts were written in all caps. Therefore one had to know by the context what was meant.
Contrary to what you stated which is inconsistent with scripture, we DO get the spirit of God upon being saved which is exactly what Acts 2:38 teaches.
Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Acts 2:38
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
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