Do we search the scriptures or simply read our Sunday School booklets?

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Davy

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For a very long time, the generalization applied to me as well. It is how I was taught to learn "the bible." I put in the effort that was shown to me as the right way to understand. I learned to simply trust the man rather than pray for God to teach me. Eventually I woke up and realized that I was not adhering to the instruction to trust God's truth rather than man's.

That part you said in 'red' is right on the nail!

How can a disciple of Jesus Christ know when man is actually teaching what God says in His Word unless they first get understanding in God's Word by The Holy Spirit?

John 14:16-17
16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; Whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
KJV

John 14:26
26 But the Comforter, Which is the Holy Ghost, Whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
KJV
 

Behold

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Ideas like Paul's Epistles only are for the Christian Church are just as bad,

They are certainly not for Satan's Church, or for "Allah's" Fanatics.

So, Paul was chosen by Jesus Himself for such a time as this...>"The Time of the Gentiles', and Its about over.
Reader....If you are just water baptized and religious, the victim of a cult, then i invite you to find a quiet place, and allow God, through your faith in the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.. = to become unto you, "Christ's Righteousness"... "The Gift of Salvation".
 
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Davy

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They are certainly not for Satan's Church, or for "Allah's" Fanatics.

So, Paul was chosen by Jesus Himself for such a time as this...>"The Time of the Gentiles', and Its about over.
Reader....If you are just water baptized and religious, the victim of a cult, then i invite you to find a quiet place, and allow God, through your faith in the finished work of Jesus on the Cross.. = to become unto you, "Christ's Righteousness"... "The Gift of Salvation".

Like I said, those who claim Paul's Epistles ONLY are for the Christian Church are just as bad as cults like SDA and JW.
 

Pearl

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No matter how well you know the scriptures and can quote chapter and verse; no matter how much knowledge you may have, it won't save you unless you are born again and have the Holy Spirit within you. Knowing about Jesus is meaningless unless you KNOW him personally and have given your life to Him.
 

Davy

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Isaiah 9:6 IS... about Lord Jesus Christ, don't be deceived.

Isa 9:6-7
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


Breaking the Above Down:
a. "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:..." -- that is about the the son born of a virgin in Isaiah 7:14, which is about Jesus of Nazareth, as quoted also in Matthew 1:23.

b. "... and the government shall be upon his shoulder:..." -- that is about Lord Jesus Christ's future reign with His elect at His future return.

c. "... and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." -- all those Titles are about Jesus Christ, especially that "Prince of Peace" Title. The reason why "The mighty God, The everlasting Father" also applies to Lord Jesus Christ is because Jesus Christ is... GOD The Savior, one Person in The Godhead of three Persons.

Therefore, those who refuse to believe that GOD came in the flesh as Jesus of Nazareth show they refuse to believe the Sign that GOD gave in Isaiah 7:14 about "Immanuel" (which means 'God with us', i.e., in the flesh as Jesus of Nazareth.)

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
KJV


"... upon the throne of David,..." -- the throne of David is specifically reserved for Jesus Christ. It is the throne which Jesus will sit upon when He returns to earth.
 

Spyder

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Isaiah 9:6 IS... about Lord Jesus Christ, don't be deceived.

Isa 9:6-7
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


Breaking the Above Down:
a. "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:..." -- that is about the the son born of a virgin in Isaiah 7:14, which is about Jesus of Nazareth, as quoted also in Matthew 1:23.

b. "... and the government shall be upon his shoulder:..." -- that is about Lord Jesus Christ's future reign with His elect at His future return.

c. "... and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." -- all those Titles are about Jesus Christ, especially that "Prince of Peace" Title. The reason why "The mighty God, The everlasting Father" also applies to Lord Jesus Christ is because Jesus Christ is... GOD The Savior, one Person in The Godhead of three Persons.

Therefore, those who refuse to believe that GOD came in the flesh as Jesus of Nazareth show they refuse to believe the Sign that GOD gave in Isaiah 7:14 about "Immanuel" (which means 'God with us', i.e., in the flesh as Jesus of Nazareth.)

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
KJV


"... upon the throne of David,..." -- the throne of David is specifically reserved for Jesus Christ. It is the throne which Jesus will sit upon when He returns to earth.
I guess I could say "back at you." Did you even pay attention to the explanation given or do you simply accept what someone else told you?
 

Davy

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I guess I could say "back at you." Did you even pay attention to the explanation given or do you simply accept what someone else told you?
No, I just know what God's Word teaches in contrast to what man thinks and says. The "strong meat" of His Word must still go out to those to whom it is meant for, regardless that the majority are not going to heed or even understand it.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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They are blind.
A question for you: How can a person be the absolute essence of the Way, the Truth and the Life, if they are not God?
Thr Giver of Life, Who Life is _ spiritually _ is GOD. He is the Creator of all physical life and so is the source of all life. Jesus says I AM THE LIFE. You cannot claim that if you are not the source of life.
This also implies that He is the Bread of Life.
Why would we say, we are " in Christ", if Christ was not God? Are we in a created being, just another prophet, a human that was elevated to Lord? Were the Jews "in Moses" or "in Abraham"? No, that sounds rediculous.Do we not have a relationship with God through Christ only? In Christ means in God.
Can one be the LIGHT, ESSENCE, EXACT ILLUMINATION AND THE FULLNESS OF GOD if He is not God?
BTW, Is. 9:6 describes the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as ONE. Jesus said, If you have seen ME, you have seen the Father.
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
Col. 1:16-17


"Consist" means held together. We can not only apply this to the atoms in the universe, but the spiritual realm as well. When you realize all this, then you will understand what being " in Christ" means.
 
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JohnDB

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Look,
Especially if you attend a large church but also the smaller ones with formal literature for small group bible studies....

There exists "Christian Political Correctness".

And let me try to explain...

Just about every Bible student has picked out their own eschatology of some sort....rapture theories, premillennial, mid, and post. However most pastors know that the congregation holts to a blend of these ideas and will preach "pan millennial" that everything will pan out so long as you are faithful....which everyone can agree to. Because otherwise you will have screaming and shouting over such "heathen unbelieving notions".

AND

Another example is about David and the bride price he paid Saul for his daughter. In some old translations it says "hands"....when in modern translations it says "forskins". And the pastor doesn't want to get into discussing this from the pulpit....so he avoids the delicate subject in front of women and children. (1&2 Samuel are rather coarse lessons)

So....
Literature doesn't do things any differently. They avoid discussing a LOT of things that will offend some people or require some uncomfortable discussions with people about how David likely didn't do delicate surgery on the Philistines....nor would they allow him to if they were alive.

So....there's a lot missing from formal studies intentionally.
 
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PS95

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The Truth is Elusive

If one would ask a professing Christian about their belief in the Bible, nine times out of ten, we would hear “of course!”

Is that the truth, though? Do we really? Our beliefs and our behavior prove otherwise, and our actions speak louder than our words.

The common response to statements like this is “well, it is our understanding that is the problem.” I believe that the answer is that the problem is not our understanding but our ignorance. Most people do not know what the Bible actually says. Many people, however, know what their teachers and preachers have told them.

Those teachers and preachers have shown proof-texts to support the things that they have claimed as “the Bible says.” We highlight those verses and then claim that we know what God has said based on what we have been taught.

However, we are NOT like the Bereans.

Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Acts 17:11 (ESV)

We do not examine the Scriptures daily to see if the things we are told are true. If we like the teacher or the preacher we just accept it as true. Or, if we like what they say, we accept it as true. That is how the majority of us come up with our “beliefs.”

I find that I can generally determine if a person is a student of the Bible or a Student of a Doctrine simply by asking a person why he or she believes what they hold as true. Some of them are advanced enough in their doctrines that they know the references to the proof texts that they were given. However, I have yet to find one who can also reference those verses that speak against their doctrine and explain why they do not hold those verses as applicable. People are simply unaware of them, and the sad part is that most of them want to remain unaware of them.

Life is simpler if they remain in the position they are in without having to reconsider what they believe. Changing what they believe puts a break in their life. It causes some problems:

  • They have to realize that their teacher was wrong
  • They have to wonder what else they were taught that is wrong
  • They may feel some guilt that they had not read the Bibles for themselves.
  • They have to figure out what they are going to do with this new version of “the truth.”
Another issue they have to deal with, but it is deeper and might be missed unless a person is a deeper thinker than others, what about all those other people who already knew the truth but were condemned by friends and family as being heretics and wrong for all those years. To now find out that they were correct all along mandates that we do something about all our false accusations.

There is also the issue of having been told that “every word in the Bible comes from God.” Even when shown that not everything came from God’s mouth, there lies the problem of reconciling that one statement with the reality that the Bible claims for itself that not every word came from God.

Take for instance, Paul’s own words:

“Now as a concession, not a command, I say this.” 1 Corinthians 7:6 (ESV)

“But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.” Galatians 5:16 (ESV)

“To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her.” 1 Corinthians 7:12 (ESV)

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.”
1 Timothy 2:12 (ESV)

In the Bible, words matter. However, most of us will use some words but not others. When people argue theology, sometimes the truth or error depends on how takes one word over another. We resort to manipulating Greek definitions in order to make a verse say one thing despite the fact that it actually says another.

Yet, here, in those examples; it is implicit that Paul was speaking for himself and not for God. I am aware that there are those who would spiritualize all that Paul wrote and may even claim that Paul was unaware that these were God’s words being placed in his mouth. To that, I hold no argument. It is a waste of time to explore the contradictions that such thinking will cause with other verses as well.

The greatest divider of churches – the major cause of the thousands of denominations we have today – are the word of Paul. It is how we perceive the messages that Paul left in his letters that divides us. I would dare say that, for some people, Paul’s words hold more validity than Jesus’ words.

We finally get the chance to discover a truth that we can claim as our own when we become wise enough to realize that we don't own our truths, because we never examined the ones given to us at church.
Absolutely crucial along with prayer!!!! I was freed from teachings of Jehovahs Witnesses Organization by reading the bible and prayer! They tell you not to just use the bible and that you must use their literature ( which is ENDLESS) which cherry picks verses which forms new strange doctrines. But the Good Lord opened my eyes and showed me so much and finally set me free!!
 
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Spyder

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They are blind.
A question for you: How can a person be the absolute essence of the Way, the Truth and the Life, if they are not God?
Thr Giver of Life, Who Life is _ spiritually _ is GOD. He is the Creator of all physical life and so is the source of all life. Jesus says I AM THE LIFE. You cannot claim that if you are not the source of life.
This also implies that He is the Bread of Life.
Why would we say, we are " in Christ", if Christ was not God? Are we in a created being, just another prophet, a human that was elevated to Lord? Were the Jews "in Moses" or "in Abraham"? No, that sounds rediculous.Do we not have a relationship with God through Christ only? In Christ means in God.
Can one be the LIGHT, ESSENCE, EXACT ILLUMINATION AND THE FULLNESS OF GOD if He is not God?
BTW, Is. 9:6 describes the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as ONE. Jesus said, If you have seen ME, you have seen the Father.
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.
Col. 1:16-17


"Consist" means held together. We can not only apply this to the atoms in the universe, but the spiritual realm as well. When you realize all this, then you will understand what being " in Christ" means.
If you are determined to believe all that you are saying, then you somehow have found the passage that Yahweh said that His several statements in the Old Testament that He ALONE is God and their is NO OTHER is rescinded. I'd like to know where to find that scripture passage. Yahweh also said that His glory He will not share with anyone. So, you petition to negate His statements through human logic lack validity unless you can show me where Yahweh changed His mind.

I will not let myself think that you are implying that I am not "in Christ." Matthew 17 is necessary to understand many things.
 

Spyder

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Absolutely crucial along with prayer!!!! I was freed from teachings of Jehovahs Witnesses Organization by reading the bible and prayer! They tell you not to just use the bible and that you must use their literature ( which is ENDLESS) which cherry picks verses which forms new strange doctrines. But the Good Lord opened my eyes and showed me so much and finally set me free!!
I was freed as well, just not from JWs. It upset my apple cart and has required adjustment on my part. However, when God gives conviction, it is not optional for me to deny it.
 
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Ronald David Bruno

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If you are determined to believe all that you are saying, then you somehow have found the passage that Yahweh said that His several statements in the Old Testament that He ALONE is God and their is NO OTHER is rescinded. I'd like to know where to find that scripture passage. Yahweh also said that His glory He will not share with anyone. So, you petition to negate His statements through human logic lack validity unless you can show me where Yahweh changed His mind.

I will not let myself think that you are implying that I am not "in Christ." Matthew 17 is necessary to understand many things.
Is that all you got?
Can't answer those questions huh?

Here's another one: Who is saying this.
I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior. Isaiah 43:11
Who is your Savior? There is only ONE.

Who said this to MOSES?
>> And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ” Ex. 3:14


This was God's brief introduction, "I AM", ( the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob). Enough, but not too descriptive, for God would reveal Himself throughout their generations; buy more definitively through Christ. Christ would fill in the missing descriptions, the essence of who God is in these statements:
I am the Way, the Truth and the Life ...
What does this mean?
a. He is the only way to Salvation.
b. Truth means what is real, realty, the Word, all knowledge and wisdom
c. Life > the source of life, physical and spiritual. In Him all things consist ( are held together). He is the Creator (John 1:1-14, Col. 1:16-17)
I am the Light of the world ...
I am the Good Shepherd ...
I am the Bread of
resurrected Himself and
I am the Door ...
I am the Vine ...
I am the Alpha and Omega
I am He ...
I am the resurrection ...
He is the Savior, the Messiah, All Mighty God.


Notice Jesus is trying to tell them that I am He, the Messiah, the Savior, the one who has always been there for them.
The Old Testament identifies God as the only Savior.
Are we to believe that there is someone else, a different Savior?
In another passage He says "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!" Matt.23:37

The pre-incarnate Lord God be ame flesh and dwelt among us.
You have been wrestling with this concept for a long time - maybe soon you will find your peace about Who Jesus really is. You will bow your knee to Him and worship Him.
 

Spyder

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Is that all you got?
Can't answer those questions huh?

Here's another one: Who is saying this.
I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior. Isaiah 43:11
Who is your Savior? There is only ONE.
Well, sir, there is the original savior - the one who initially established the New Covenant plan: Yahweh. Then, He sent his Only Begotten Son who also is called the savior.

If an Army General gives the order to his Colonel to send troops in to rescue hostages, the General is their Savior, but the Colonel who gives the orders to the troops is also the savior, and the Master Sargent to led the team in is a savior as well.

As for Isaiah 43:11, perhaps you should obtain and interlinear bible and see what it said prior to being altered when translated.


Isaiah 43 v11.png
Who said this to MOSES?
>> And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ” Ex. 3:14
If you had used an interlinear, you would see that Moses met with Yahweh who claimed I AM. It was Yahweh.


Ex 3 v7.jpg
This was God's brief introduction, "I AM", ( the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob). Enough, but not too descriptive, for God would reveal Himself throughout their generations; buy more definitively through Christ. Christ would fill in the missing descriptions, the essence of who God is in these statements:
I am the Way, the Truth and the Life ...
What does this mean?
a. He is the only way to Salvation.
b. Truth means what is real, realty, the Word, all knowledge and wisdom
c. Life > the source of life, physical and spiritual. In Him all things consist ( are held together). He is the Creator (John 1:1-14, Col. 1:16-17)
I am the Light of the world ...
I am the Good Shepherd ...
I am the Bread of
resurrected Himself and
I am the Door ...
I am the Vine ...
I am the Alpha and Omega
I am He ...
I am the resurrection ...
He is the Savior, the Messiah, All Mighty God.
In the New Testament alone, the term I AM is found 2,462 times. Yet, you want to claim it is all about being God alone who used it?

Notice Jesus is trying to tell them that I am He, the Messiah, the Savior, the one who has always been there for them.
The Old Testament identifies God as the only Savior.
Are we to believe that there is someone else, a different Savior?
In another passage He says "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!" Matt.23:37

The pre-incarnate Lord God be ame flesh and dwelt among us.
You have been wrestling with this concept for a long time - maybe soon you will find your peace about Who Jesus really is. You will bow your knee to Him and worship Him.
Nowhere is scripture does Yeshua (Jesus) say that I AM my Father, nor does He say He is Yahweh. None of this disciples ever say it either. Only man says it.

If you know of some passage where Yahweh said that He and His Son and His Spirit are all God, I need to see it, please.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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Well, sir, there is the original savior - the one who initially established the New Covenant plan: Yahweh. Then, He sent his Only Begotten Son who also is called the savior.

If an Army General gives the order to his Colonel to send troops in to rescue hostages, the General is their Savior, but the Colonel who gives the orders to the troops is also the savior, and the Master Sargent to led the team in is a savior as well.

As for Isaiah 43:11, perhaps you should obtain and interlinear bible and see what it said prior to being altered when translated.


View attachment 46996

If you had used an interlinear, you would see that Moses met with Yahweh who claimed I AM. It was Yahweh.


View attachment 46997

In the New Testament alone, the term I AM is found 2,462 times. Yet, you want to claim it is all about being God alone who used it?


Nowhere is scripture does Yeshua (Jesus) say that I AM my Father, nor does He say He is Yahweh. None of this disciples ever say it either. Only man says it.

If you know of some passage where Yahweh said that He and His Son and His Spirit are all God, I need to see it, please.

There is no need to continue this, we interpret scripture differently. You don't see what I know. Jesus is the Great I Am. You don't really grasp the Book of John that clearly presents Jesus' deity ... all those "I Am's" fill in the details missing from His initial introduction with Moses.
 

Spyder

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There is no need to continue this, we interpret scripture differently. You don't see what I know. Jesus is the Great I Am. You don't really grasp the Book of John that clearly presents Jesus' deity ... all those "I Am's" fill in the details missing from His initial introduction with Moses.
Yes, if you are already convinced that you know "the truth" and are not willing to consider other views; there is no reason to continue. At one time, I held the same "truth" that you do. I learned differently later.
 

Ronald David Bruno

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Yes, if you are already convinced that you know "the truth" and are not willing to consider other views; there is no reason to continue. At one time, I held the same "truth" that you do. I learned differently later.
Yah, you and your whopping _ app. 2.3 % (Non-Trinitarian) of the 2.7 billion Christians. You are the specially gifted ones I guess. The Holy Spirit of Truth must have a problem breaking through the mental block of the rest of us?
 
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