Do you believe in biological evolution?

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Chihuahua

Member
Dec 7, 2025
433
69
28
Chihuahua, Mex
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Slow evolution - microevolution - is factual.
No problem there.

Have a good sleep!

There is no distinction. It is how creationists deal with the reality of evolution. Evolution is a mutation, which can be positive, negative, or neutral. Overtime, these changes in DNA make a species so unique that reproduction is not longer possible. Sometimes B has B' move away. B' start to change and becomes A. B is still around, but now A also exists. 1 live peacefully until the population of 1 is separated by a river. then a sea, from each other. Climate changes on both sides of the sea and 1 becomes 2 and the other group of 1 becomes 3. The original species, 1, no longer exists.

There is no mechanism for keeping something as a kind. Horses and donkeys are kinds, yet close enough to still reproduce a sterile offspring.
 

Chihuahua

Member
Dec 7, 2025
433
69
28
Chihuahua, Mex
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
ROFLMAO. Evidence against what you say is not evidence. Evidence against evolution is not evolution! Brilliant.
It has so many applications:
  • Evidence against rape is not rape.
  • Evidence against a hypothesis is not that hypothesis.
Have you ever considered what a reasonable rejection criteria would look like against the hypothesis of evolution? Obviously, you present a mind only open to acceptance criteria.

As I wrote, selective inbreeding causes all kinds of genetic and biological issues. That does not relate to evolution. There is no loss of information. You do not understand basic principles regarding biology/evolution that a person in High School would easily be able to understand. You did not defend your position or counter what I posted. You instead claimed, without explanation, that it was evidence and equated it to denying rape.

Creationists contend that all mutations result in a lack of information. I suppose they imagine it like a book in which if you spill ink on it you lost information. They often seem only able to grasp child-like analogies. Like the blocks with letters, you can't roll them randomly and get a sentence. If you change a letter in a sentence, then it isn't right and you lost the word and thus, the sentence.

Mutations are the result of many factors. What generally matters in terms of evolution are mutations that arise in the production and recombination of haploid cells (sperm, egg). Humans get 23 chromosomes from dad and 23 of the same set of chromosome from mom. 22 from each parent are called autosomes as each parent gives a matching, identical set. The other pair are called sex chromosome. Dad has X and Y and mom has X and X. If the parents both offer an X, it is a girl and one of the X chromosomes is deactivated. If instead dad gives a Y, you have a boy. The Y is useless, but it has a gene that results in a male. No information is "lost" in by deactivation in one of the two X chromosomes in girls. Human only need one active X. The girl will then pass down one of the X, activated or deactivated to her child. Having both active is not good.

//IMPORTANT I am describing how things generally work before anyone gets snarky. There are weird exceptions with extra chromosomes. Sometimes a boy with XY has a non-functional Y and appears female, or has a functional Y but the body doesn't react. It can get super fun when you have fraternal twins and you have one person with the DNA of what should have been two fraternal siblings.

As for the other 22 pairs- they are complimentary sets, one from mom and one from dad. The issue with DNA is that dad has some genes that are not going to make for good proteins. That is okay, because the same chromosome from mom makes up for it. Mom has some bad genes to, but dad makes up for it.

This is why inbreeding is an issue. If a sperm cell has your mom's maternal autosome 1 and it is combined with her maternal autosome 1, you have a cell with the two copies of the same autosome chromosome. Another way, your mom has a copy of the KJV and the ESB. She gave you a copy of the KJV dad gave you NIV. She has an egg with a copy of the KJV and now you are combining it with a your sperm which also has a KJV, so the cell has 2 KJV. This is just an easy example (NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BIBLE)... suppose the KJV has errors, that is how DNA works, you have two sets of the same thing with the same errors.
In a better way these are the same segments of your DNA. + is good and X is bad. They do not line up.

This is ok.
++++++++X+++++++X++++++ dad
+X++++++++++++++++++X++ mom
When their son marries a girl that is unrelated, he gives mom's
+X++++++++++++++++++X++ son
+++++++X+++X+++++++++++ son's wife contribution

Great news! A few bad proteins, but no one cares. One makes up for the other!

This, however, is a problem:
+X++++++++++++++++++X++ a incestuous brother's contribution from his mom
+X++++++++++++++++++X++ his incestuous sister's contribution from their mom

Kids is now:
+X++++++++++++++++++X++ Maternal copy
+X++++++++++++++++++X++ Paternal copy
Genetically (and psychologically) messed up.

Dogs are selectively inbred. They produce offspring based on a forced, limited gene pool and that is why they have issues.
In natural selection, it is the conditions of the environment that favor certain mutations over time. Here, we find an O which is helpful.

+++++++O+++X+++++++++++
+++X+++O+++++++++++++++

Kid now makes an advantageous protein.

When attempting to save an endangered species, they try to add new genes to the genetic pool. This is why you can probably get away with marrying a first cousin, but if it is a common thing, you end up with health issues. Hence, why it is illegal.

Some species are not as prone to this as others.
 
Last edited:

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
17,655
8,658
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
Gender
Female
Yes - when it comes to a person's area of expertise. A famous and well respected physicist ought not to be seen as an expert of medical issues.

As long as that is their respected field, sure. Is it worthwhile to consider a contrary opinion to your own by a respected person in that field? Absolutely And I think it is important for people not to be swindled by someone who runs contrary to other experts of their field. They may have a valid point, but the credibility is less


It doesn't matter if they are 'scientists' the question is are they in anyway involved in that field. If you had a doctorate in physics, it means nothing to speak of evolution. On Darwin I do not see it at all. I suppose there are folks out there that poke holes at Darwin, which is pretty easy to do. He is not a god or anything. You can laugh at the first airplanes and say, see how stupid they are. No jet engines, no stealth. Darwin knew nothing of DNA.


RNA forms naturally. We are talking loads of it moving very, very fast. Over time, the strands could create similar strands, acting as information and like an enzyme. Membranes formed making very early cells and the rest is history.

Generally creationist arguments utilize lack of understanding or created parallels that are in no way related for the purpose of knocking them. For example, take a bunch of toy blocks with random letters on each side, drop them on the ground and proclaim - this is how evolution works. You see, you cannot get a sentence. I did some calculations and it would take one quadrillion roles before all of the blocks formed words, much less a real sentence. Evolution is proven impossible!
The video I posted is re 3 scientists, in different fields, each stating the same ideas.
This iis because they're Christian and see God as a designer.
I agree with this.
I believe God created everything and set up a mechanism which is visible for those that care to see it.

I brought up a couple of problems but you haven't addressed those.
Creation solves the problems.

There's language in DNA.
How did it get there?

(that's not one of the two problems I had previously mentioned)
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
17,655
8,658
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
Gender
Female
There is no distinction. It is how creationists deal with the reality of evolution. Evolution is a mutation, which can be positive, negative, or neutral. Overtime, these changes in DNA make a species so unique that reproduction is not longer possible. Sometimes B has B' move away. B' start to change and becomes A. B is still around, but now A also exists. 1 live peacefully until the population of 1 is separated by a river. then a sea, from each other. Climate changes on both sides of the sea and 1 becomes 2 and the other group of 1 becomes 3. The original species, 1, no longer exists.

There is no mechanism for keeping something as a kind. Horses and donkeys are kinds, yet close enough to still reproduce a sterile offspring.
Microevolution causes adaptation.
This is seen and believed by all science.

Macroevoluton presents serious problems which science has not solved.
And it most probably never will.
IMHO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chihuahua

Chihuahua

Member
Dec 7, 2025
433
69
28
Chihuahua, Mex
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Microevolution causes adaptation.
This is seen and believed by all science.

Macroevoluton presents serious problems which science has not solved.
And it most probably never will.
IMHO.

Microevolution and macroevolution are not terms you would find in research papers. These are clung to by creationists in the mush-mouthed way of saying evolution is true.... but it has limits, kinds.. types... such... bible stuff. They are really meaningless terms. Hospitals kept frogs in refrigerators, injected them with urine of a patient and if the frog laid eggs, the woman was pregnant. This was important before surgery or the use of drugs. I am very serious and it was scientifically sound.

These are simplistic terms referring to minor changes in a short span and large changes over a long period of time. Today. we do not use frogs and we do not use these terms because they are meaningless as our knowledge has increased. Grab some organisms that seem alike, sequence their genome and compare them.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: GodsGrace

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
17,655
8,658
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
Gender
Female
Microevolution and macroevolution are not terms you would find in research papers. These are clung to by creationists in the mush-mouthed way of saying evolution is true.... but it has limits, kinds.. types... such... bible stuff. They are really meaningless terms. Hospitals kept frogs in refrigerators, injected them with urine of a patient and if the frog laid eggs, the woman was pregnant. This was important before surgery oe thw use of drugs. I am very serious and it was scientifically sound.

These are simplistic terms referring to minor changes in a short span and large changes over a long period of time. Today. we do not use frogs and we do not use these terms because they are meaningless as our knowledge has increased. Grab some organisms that seem alike, sequence their genome and compare them.
Funny stuff!
I use terms I hear.
It's the best I can do!

But, yes, it's like you said...
micro is short
macro is long term.

Does science just use the word EVOLUTION and then refer to the TIME it takes??
 

Chihuahua

Member
Dec 7, 2025
433
69
28
Chihuahua, Mex
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Funny stuff!
I use terms I hear.
It's the best I can do!

1765441357477.png

Frog injection and egg harvesting (A) Position of needle and syringe for injecting gonadotropin into the frogs' dorsal lymph sacs, which are circled by yellow dashed lines. (B) After collecting eggs in a shallow dish, discard any that look stringy (i.e., joined together), deformed, or white and puffy. Arrows in the photograph on the right designate two puffy eggs that should be discarded. (C) How to assess dejellying efficiency. In the photograph on the left, eggs with intact jelly coats cluster loosely when the dish is tilted. In the photograph on the right, properly dejellied eggs pack tightly together. All scale bars represent 5 mm.​


This is seriously not a joke. "Frogs, specifically the African Clawed Frog (Xenopus laevis), were historically used as living pregnancy tests by detecting Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG) in a pregnant person's urine, causing the frog to ovulate or release sperm within hours, a method developed by Hogben and Galli-Mainini and popular until the 1960s" -google
But, yes, it's like you said...
micro is short
macro is long term.

Does science just use the word EVOLUTION and then refer to the TIME it takes??

If you mean scientific research papers, they do not really go into it in as much as space agencies/research do not concern themselves with considerations for a flat Earth or if the Earth has a perfect orbit. It is absurd as considering that a solar eclipse is not wrath of an angry god in the clouds. I did research involving genes which were helpful to study and play with ("genetic engineering" which I think high school students can do now) as the turnover rate was faster and killing them was not an issue.
I did breast cancer research by way of a nifty transgenic mice I made. There was nothing, nothing about evolution any more than talking about scattered light particles at dawn as Eos, the sister of the Sun Helios, and their sister the moon Selene. If someone wants to go to pubmed and search some random stuff go for it.
 

Chihuahua

Member
Dec 7, 2025
433
69
28
Chihuahua, Mex
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
The video I posted is re 3 scientists, in different fields, each stating the same ideas.
This iis because they're Christian and see God as a designer.
I agree with this.
I believe God created everything and set up a mechanism which is visible for those that care to see it.
Three well known scientist in the field of molecular genetics who have published peer review research challenging notions with stunning innovative ideas?
I brought up a couple of problems but you haven't addressed those.
Creation solves the problems.

I must of missed it. If you can copy/paste or post# it I'd be happy to offer my thoughts.

There's language in DNA.
How did it get there?

(that's not one of the two problems I had previously mentioned)

There really isn't a "language" to DNA. DNA has various nucleotides ACGT which offer a 3 part code to add a amino acid for a given protein being formed. A stop codon end the addition and the protein is free and generally associates with other proteins to form complicated 3D structures. What is really interesting is that we start with a single cell but it produces other cells and they send signals to each other indicating what they will be in terms of cell lines. So they coil up in sections not needed for their function within the cell. So, you get certain proteins in cells for the nervous system and others for the circulatory system and then they make also make the same proteins.
 
Last edited:

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
17,655
8,658
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
Gender
Female
Three well known scientist in the field of molecular genetics who have published peer review research challenging notions with stunning innovative ideas?
I do believe Beher is a bit beyond peer review...yes, he does that but is very respectged in his field.
I can't ask you to watch the video but it IS very interesting,,,
especially if you understand everything they're stating.
I must of missed it. If you can copy/paste it I'd be happy to offer my thoughts.
Here are my questions:

1. If the eye evolved, does this mean that mankind was blind for millions of years?

2. The cell cn only funciton if ALL of its parts are working.
HOW did the cell function while it was evolving if all the parts were not present yet?

There really isn't a "language" to DNA. DNA has various nucleotides ACGT which offer a 3 part code to add a amino acid for a given protein being formed. A stop codon end the addition and the protein is free and generally associates with other proteins to form complicated 3D structures. What is really interesting is that we start with a single cell but it produces other cells and they send signals to each other indicating what they will be in terms of cell lines. So they coil up in sections not needed for their function within the cell. So, you get certain proteins in cells for the nervous system and others for the circulatory system and then they make also make the same proteins.
They call it a language...
but it's like you said...
Dr. Noble expounds on this...(he's in the other video I psoted)

I post videos becausse some will click on them and they say much more than I ever can.
 

Chihuahua

Member
Dec 7, 2025
433
69
28
Chihuahua, Mex
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
I do believe Beher is a bit beyond peer review...yes, he does that but is very respectged in his field.

Okay that is last name, so you'll need to help me there. Full name or other details :)
I can't ask you to watch the video but it IS very interesting,,,
especially if you understand everything they're stating.

I respect you and we are having a chit-chat and not at each others throats, so if I can, I can offer my thoughts. Probably not tonight.
YOU EVIL SPAWN OF SATAN FOR DISAGREEING WITH ANYTHING I SAY!!!
:p

Here are my questions:

1. If the eye evolved, does this mean that mankind was blind for millions of years?

No, the eye evolved long long before homo homo sapiens emerged. We have eyes from a common ancestor with apes, which have a common ancestor with old world monkeys, which have a common ancestor going to aquatic life all with eyes. The eye began with a photoreceptor cell. They would help you figure out where the yummy plants are.. I guess.

2. The cell cn only funciton if ALL of its parts are working.
HOW did the cell function while it was evolving if all the parts were not present yet?

The parts evolved over time. They became dependent. You are dependent on modern things, how can we function? How did we live without electricity? How did you survive car trouble before cell phones? What is a pay phone?
Cool bio fact- mitochondria. They are cells that were brought into a bigger cell and learned to live in harmony. That is why mitochondria have its own DNA. All your mitochondrial DNA comes from your mom. Mom makes the cell and in it is the mitochondria. Dad just throw in some DNA to get things going.

Another fun fact, lizards can have two of their eggs become a baby on their own, which will be male. Helpful when there are no dudes around.
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
17,655
8,658
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
Gender
Female
Okay that is last name, so you'll need to help me there. Full name or other details :)


I respect you and we are having a chit-chat and not at each others throats, so if I can, I can offer my thoughts. Probably not tonight.
YOU EVIL SPAWN OF SATAN FOR DISAGREEING WITH ANYTHING I SAY!!!
:p



No, the eye evolved long long before homo homo sapiens emerged. We have eyes from a common ancestor with apes, which have a common ancestor with old world monkeys, which have a common ancestor going to aquatic life all with eyes. The eye began with a photoreceptor cell. They would help you figure out where the yummy plants are.. I guess.
So the eye was fully formed when the fish came out of the water with legs?
But many fish were blind from the start then....
The parts evolved over time. They became dependent. You are dependent on modern things, how can we function? How did we live without electricity? How did you survive car trouble before cell phones? What is a pay phone?
Cool bio fact- mitochondria. They are cells that were brought into a bigger cell and learned to live in harmony. That is why mitochondria have its own DNA. All your mitochondrial DNA comes from your mom. Mom makes the cell and in it is the mitochondria. Dad just throw in some DNA to get things going.

Another fun fact, lizards can have two of their eggs become a baby on their own, which will be male. Helpful when there are no dudes around.
Yes. I really wish you'd watch that video.
It explains who Behe is...why the cell can't work UNLESS it has all its parts...etc.

This conversation is beyond my capabilities.

Here, I'll post it again...just catch the first few minutes.
Behe is in it.
(but I also have great respect for John Lennox and S. Meyer).


 

Chihuahua

Member
Dec 7, 2025
433
69
28
Chihuahua, Mex
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
So the eye was fully formed when the fish came out of the water with legs?
But many fish were blind from the start then....

Oh no! You made me think of my favorite animal! Mudskippers!
1765446327697.png
1765446398416.png

These are a very real very cool group of animals! They are not generated by AI :) They live in brackish water and they are good for aquarium exhibits, but you can buy them.

This is not really a demonstration of evolution, but fish didn't walk on legs on day out of water. Mudskippers ... skip... around... mud.
Yes. I really wish you'd watch that video.
It explains who Behe is...why the cell can't work UNLESS it has all its parts...etc.

Would society function without electricity? Internet? Here in the US during COVID everyone ran for toilet paper.
So, you make fire. You learn to put sticks through a hide, then you make basic string and sow it together. Then you notice if you wash your hands with poop on them before eating, few people die. There are prokaryotic cells and eukaryotic cells. The prokaryotic cells are like a skate board and a Eukaryotic cell is a stealth fighter jet.

Google
Eukaryotic vs. Prokaryotic Cells
  • Eukaryotic: Nucleus present, membrane-bound organelles present, complex, DNA in nucleus, larger.
  • Prokaryotic: No nucleus, no membrane-bound organelles, simpler, DNA in cytoplasm (nucleoid), smaller (bacteria, archaea).
 

Chihuahua

Member
Dec 7, 2025
433
69
28
Chihuahua, Mex
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Oh, I am not that familiar on when aquatic life evolved the modern eye. Off the top of my head, with no search, I do recall that octopi and their relatives evolved the eye independently of the rest of us cool kids with a spine... those spineless animals didn't copy us, because they couldn't see :)
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Feb 6, 2018
30,288
15,866
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
We have eyes from a common ancestor with apes,

Would you elaborate simply on this comment?

We… humans…
Have…a common… “Ancestor” with “apes”…?

What exactly IS the “Ancestor”…(in this scenario)?

An ape or a human?

And are you suggesting …
An ape and human mated and produced an offspring? ( the ie. “common ancestor”) ?

Thanks,
Taken
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
17,655
8,658
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
Gender
Female
Oh no! You made me think of my favorite animal! Mudskippers!
View attachment 75349
View attachment 75350

These are a very real very cool group of animals! They are not generated by AI :) They live in brackish water and they are good for aquarium exhibits, but you can buy them.

This is not really a demonstration of evolution, but fish didn't walk on legs on day out of water. Mudskippers ... skip... around... mud.


Would society function without electricity? Internet? Here in the US during COVID everyone ran for toilet paper.
So, you make fire. You learn to put sticks through a hide, then you make basic string and sow it together. Then you notice if you wash your hands with poop on them before eating, few people die. There are prokaryotic cells and eukaryotic cells. The prokaryotic cells are like a skate board and a Eukaryotic cell is a stealth fighter jet.

Google
Eukaryotic vs. Prokaryotic Cells
  • Eukaryotic: Nucleus present, membrane-bound organelles present, complex, DNA in nucleus, larger.
  • Prokaryotic: No nucleus, no membrane-bound organelles, simpler, DNA in cytoplasm (nucleoid), smaller (bacteria, archaea).
There are also fish that live deep in the ocean that have NO eyes...
but, of course, they don't need them.
THIS is the type of evolution I understand.
I used to have an acquarium...too much work, but so nice to have.
Got little babies too - had a special "home" for them so they wouldn't get eaten.
 

GodsGrace

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2017
17,655
8,658
113
Tuscany
Faith
Christian
Country
Italy
Gender
Female
Oh, I am not that familiar on when aquatic life evolved the modern eye. Off the top of my head, with no search, I do recall that octopi and their relatives evolved the eye independently of the rest of us cool kids with a spine... those spineless animals didn't copy us, because they couldn't see :)
They couldn't see!
THANK YOU!
 

Chihuahua

Member
Dec 7, 2025
433
69
28
Chihuahua, Mex
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Would you elaborate simply on this comment?

We… humans…
Have…a common… “Ancestor” with “apes”…?

What exactly IS the “Ancestor”…(in this scenario)?

An ape or a human?

And are you suggesting …
An ape and human mated and produced an offspring? ( the ie. “common ancestor”) ?

Thanks,
Taken
Humans are apes. It is funny when people do not understand that. It is easier to call non-human apes "apes". rather than saying other apes. People refer to a gorilla as a monkey. The scientist in me wants to correct them, but the ape wants me to throw poop at them while mating in public view.

"Apes are tailless primates, divided into lesser apes (gibbons, siamangs) and great apes (orangutans, gorillas, chimpanzees, bonobos, and humans). They are known for high intelligence, complex social structures, tool use, and communication through gestures and sounds"

I resemble that remark.

Despite real mid 20th Century attempts to combine humans with other great apes, that was a no go. We have a common ancestor - In the same way I have a common ancestor with what likely became trail park trash that I would not go anywhere near.
 

Grailhunter

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2019
14,583
6,262
113
69
FARMINGTON
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
DNA and its sub-parts are more or less biological software. And software can be adjusted. When it comes to God people will believe His power is limitless except when it comes to orchestrating evolution. Intelligent design, either way God was involved, it just did not happen in a puff of smoke.

The earth started out as rock and all the living and dead things over millions of years laid the carpet we call dirt. The atom looks like a solar system....the solar system looks like a galaxy....
the galaxy looks like the universe etc. Christ was not crucified in Genesis, it was an evolving story, things take time.
 

Chihuahua

Member
Dec 7, 2025
433
69
28
Chihuahua, Mex
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
They couldn't see!
THANK YOU!

Before animals skipped around on land, they did see. The ancestors of the octopus also evolved eyes after we split. It is called convergent evolution: "when unrelated species independently develop similar traits or features (like wings or streamlined bodies) because they adapt to similar environments or ecological niches, creating analogous structures (same function, different origin) rather than homologous structures from a shared ancestor"
 

Chihuahua

Member
Dec 7, 2025
433
69
28
Chihuahua, Mex
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gender
Male
DNA and its sub-parts are more or less biological software. And software can be adjusted. When it comes to God people will believe His power is limitless except when it comes to orchestrating evolution. Intelligent design, either way God was involved, it just did not happen in a puff of smoke.

God is so powerful and without time 13.8 billion years ago BOOM. He does not need to intervene. If you are God you set up the dominos and they go and go.

Magic god is full of anger, lives on the top of a mountain, his sister is his mom, and he married a fish. With bolts of lightning he made the seas obey with his mermaid daughter named Ariel. She traded her voice for legs on a bet with a sea witch she could win the love of a land man.
 
Last edited: