Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?

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Behold

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Mary,
If what you say is true about Latin, then what explains the explosion of translations of the Bible after the Reformation? I think your view of history is a bit myopic.

And I think you need to rethink your argument concerning the presumed united church. Why is it called "The Reformation?" Isn't a fact that the seminal movement was an attempt to reform the Catholic church from within, as exemplified by the 95 theses? Martin Luther didn't set out to leave the Catholic Church. That was the furthest thing from his mind. Before Protestantism, the Catholic church was already divided. And it divided again over the Latin mass and many other issues down through history.

You should tell Marymog about this interesting situation.

3 Popes at one time...., all saying the other was the "Anti-Christ".

= Western Schism, also called Great Schism or Great Western Schism, in the history of the Roman Catholic Church, the period from 1378 to 1417, when there were two, and later three, RIVAL POPES, each with his own following, his own Sacred College of Cardinals, and his own administrative offices.

Here is another that she'd love to learn about...

"""Gnosticism""......... they dont believe that Christ on the Cross was necessary, as they dont believe sin exists..

Who is the "Father of Gnosticism"?//////. His name is Valentinus....and He almost became a Pope .
 
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MatthewG

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Spirit baptism has surpassed water baptism.

That was why John said; that He (Jesus) will baptize you in the Holy Spirit and fire.

You still can get water baptism if you want but it doesn’t reflect a heart change unless that individual is allowing God to work on their heart and mind by the spirit.
 

Behold

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Keep in mind too that Catholics don't really baptize but rather pour water on people.

Ill keep that in mind if you keep in mind that every true Catholic will argue that Water washes their sin away and is required for "SALVATION, because their demonic bible that Jerome wrote.... says that YOU are "born again by water".

Christianity teaches that you are born again by the Holy Spirit.


First lets look at the CATHOLIC Encyclopedia..

""""""Regeneration is a Biblico-dogmatic term closely connected with the ideas of justification, Divine sonship, and the deification of the soul through grace. Confining ourselves first to the Biblical use of this term, we find regeneration from God used in indissoluble connection with Water baptism, which St. Paul expressly calls "the laver of regeneration" . In His discourse with Nicodemus , the Saviour declares: "Unless a man be born again of WATER.... """"""


Catholic Doctrine...

""""" WATER Baptism is defined as the “Sacrament of regeneration by WATER in the word” (Catechism of the Catholic Church 1213). The specific grace given by Water Baptism produces a regeneration, a rebirth, within the one baptized."""

Jerome​

“This much you must know, that WATER baptism forgives past sins"""
 

CadyandZoe

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Hello,

You are right. The Church "must always be united around a love of the truth, especially the truth of the Gospel." Who's "truth of the Gospel" do you follow?
The one found in the Bible of course.

The Baptist's? Lutheran's? Mormon's? Scripture makes it clear that we are to Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief. Those that rule over us are to Pay careful attention to themselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. Those that rule over us are to Hold fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. Who rules over you that has sound doctrine CadyandZoe?
Jesus and the Apostles.
Where does Scripture say that the best way to foster unity is to "put the Bible into the hands of faithful believers all around the world"? It doesn't say that anywhere, at any point or at any time. What it does say is that there "are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." Since the Reformation and the printing press we have "put the Bible into the hands of faithful believers all around the world". Is Christianity MORE divided or LESS divided since we have done that CadyandZoe? Can you now see how your theory that everyone should have the bible so we are more united does not work?
You are simply repeating the typical Catholic apologetic. Sure, Christians including Catholics, lack understanding and twist the scriptures. It falsely and wrongly presumes that the Magisterium is inerrant, which is a doctrine tested by scripture. But if the Magisterium is beholden to scripture, then it has no special place among the saints. The Magisterium is "sound doctrine" only to the degree that it agrees and aligns with scripture. Scripture corrects false Catholic doctrine equally well as it corrects errant Protestant Doctrine.
 

GRACE ambassador

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The Magisterium is "sound doctrine" only to the degree that it agrees and aligns with scripture. Scripture corrects false Catholic doctrine equally well as it corrects errant Protestant Doctrine.
Correct, and, neither is "a man, magesterium, or tradition (Roman or Protestor)" equal to, or
[Satan's plan?] higher than God's Word Of Truth:

Psa 138:2 “I will worship toward Thy holy temple, and praise Thy Name for​
Thy Lovingkindness and for Thy Truth: for Thou Hast MAGNIFIED Thy
Word Above All THY NAME.”
Amen.

Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)
!
 
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JunChosen

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You must read a bit further to understand clearly what Paul meant. 1 Cor 3:4-6. In verse 6 it says Paul planted and Apollos watered and God gave the increase.
Where did you learn how to exegete the word of God?

1 Corinthians 3:6 is dealing with "witnessing" the word of God and has NOTHING to do with "baptism" as you are claiming!!! It's a wonder, LOL.
 
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JunChosen

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Not sure what point you're trying to make. 1 Peter 3:20-1 says just the opposite of your above statement, the baptism DOES save us. Water baptism is 100% essential to salvation.
As I've already stated, your exegete of Scripture is something else to behold.

I beg to differ! The term "the like manner" is merely a shadow (the putting away of the filth of the flesh) as Peter stated in 1 Peter 3:21. It does NOT declare that water baptism is 100% essential for salvation as you claim. The context will not permit. Water is only a vivid symbol and Christ is the substance.

Read Ezekiel 36:25-27....

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them

To God Be The Glory
 
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Reggie Belafonte

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Verse that supports this bold claim, please.
Does one get water baptised after you are truly Saved ? No ! because water baptism is to bring one into being saved.

John the Baptist did not come after Christ Jesus now did he ? and was pointing out what the issue was with him regarding water baptism and then with the difference regarding Jesus.

One can not be of this world and then Saved directly, that's what water baptism is for, so as to lead one to Jesus Christ.

Their are many Priest who are in a Christian Church, but not all of them are truly Saved, they are only religious ! Religion does not Save ones Soul. Only Christ Jesus can do that.

Remember when Jesus was walking, did he save anyone's Soul ? but it was only when one knew he was the Christ, that that truly took place. Remember his disciples they did not know he was the Christ 100% until he went to Heaven, then they were born again ? because they knew him !
Saul was born again in fact when he became Paul.
But no one was 100% sure until Jesus went to heaven.

Now as for his disciples they were all well educated and devout Jews in the OT and they truly understood who Moses was, as Holy Moses ! but the rest of the Jews did not have Moses as their guide in fact ? but for them who had faith in Jesus, for one must have faith in Moses to have faith in Jesus back in the days in fact. or one would be lost regarding Jesus ? Now remember what Moses had to struggle with regarding all the stupid Godless Jews, not to mention they tried to kill him and created abominations like the Golden Calf etc etc. Not worthy of God at all but bastardised with trash from Egypt. that's why the 40 years were needed.

No one is truly Saved out of nothing, one needs to be on the same page as the body of Christ before one can be truly Saved, so that's the same issue regardless is it not ? only one I idiot is hell bent on fearing water baptism because they have a retarded mental block about the water issue ? why renounce the Water ! something is wrong ?
Why would anyone refuse the Water Baptism, The Jews had no problems with such regarding John ? So why should you !
Water Baptism does not save you, but one becomes under the Church. One united under the same roof. Accepted as one and no one can say otherwise ! but if one was not Water Baptised who are you ?

If one makes claims that one has to be taking such on their own bat, regarding their age consenting, so what ! That is not what it's about unless one was a bastard, one who was born out side of the Church with no Christian Parents.

Anyone who talks down Water Baptism in anyway is a bastard, regarding Christ Jesus. Did Jesus reject what John was doing ? no Jesus took it on himself directly ! and then what did Jesus do, he went out and dealt with the Devil.

It's all about understanding the issues in the Bible. not so much seeking a verse to prove, because that's what people of little faith look for.

And not to mention Naming Ceremonies, they are trash ! because one lacks faith to be convicted on the issue. when I see such, I find the lowest of the low love such. It empowers Atheist no end and how they strut about with such made me turn against such never to go to such again.

Now as to a Child that was not Water Baptised, they did not receive that blessing ! but what if that child was to of lost it's Parents ? what then ! and got on the wrong side of the tracks, on drugs etc. Well I know of a dude that became Great Preacher, that was once lead down to his last in destitute as the drugs ate away at him and his mate said lets end this all now by taking an overdose ? but this dude somehow had the conviction deep inside him to call out old mate, for he said he was Baptised ! and that gave him the strength to turn his life around and then he became a Great Preacher for the Lord Jesus. Such conviction in a Priest is fantastic as they are on fire for the Lord Jesus as they do not take a step backwards on the issues, but come Zeroing in like.
 

Bible Highlighter

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Large calling, God speed.
I believe it is the calling of all who are physically able to do so.

”So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.” (Luke 17:10).
 

Bible Highlighter

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I hear what you say and there is much confusion on biblical doctrines on Forums, bearing in mind there are Armenians, and Calvinists, each one claiming they have it right.

On Spirit baptism--can you show me, in Scriptures, that it is immersion in water, the same, not the same?

Like you I want to please our Lord and obey His Imperatives.

God bless
Johann
I believe Spirit baptism is something that God does.

I believe water baptism is something we are to do.

Check out my thread here about the different baptisms:


May God bless you, as well.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

A Bible Highlighter.
 
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Behold

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People can believe anything.

Yes., and they do.

Notice.....

Lets say a person is born again.... Not just water baptized and religious.

This person then, heard that Jesus died for their sin, and they are a sinner needing to be saved.
They heard this "Gospel"... as "faith comes by hearing"...... and they BELIEVED.... and God accepted their faith, and gave them Salvation, which is forgiveness of sin and eternal life. = Born again.

How then is it, that a sinner, who knows nothing about the bible.......no theology......came to God, in Faith, and 2 yrs later, is teaching...>"you have to do works to stay saved"... "you have to not willfully sin to stay saved"....

You have to ....."do.....do......do......do.......do.......do.......do.......do, to stay saved.


Yet, the day they went to the Cross and met Jesus, they were happy, and knew they were going to heaven....and they were RIGHT.


So, how did they FALL from that knowing......into......>>SELF SAVING Deception, that they are now TEACHING?

How do they go from....."thank you Jesus for saving me".........to being on a forum teaching..>"now here is what you have to do to be saved and stay saved" and they never mention THE CROSS in 1000 posts and 100 Threads.

How did that happen to them?

= THE DEVIL.

That's how. He came to them using a person, a commentary, a church, and stripped them of Fatih in Jesus, and now has them up on the Cross of their own Self Righteousness, trying to stay saved., and that is what they TEACH you to do.

This is a DARK LIGHT........ LUKE 11:35

Now.....See this verse?

Hebrews 13:9...

This verse explains how that happened, and how to prevent it., And its show you what will happen to you, if you dont do what it says to do with your HEART OF FAITH.
 

Marymog

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You are simply repeating the typical Catholic apologetic. Sure, Christians including Catholics, lack understanding and twist the scriptures. It falsely and wrongly presumes that the Magisterium is inerrant, which is a doctrine tested by scripture. But if the Magisterium is beholden to scripture, then it has no special place among the saints. The Magisterium is "sound doctrine" only to the degree that it agrees and aligns with scripture. Scripture corrects false Catholic doctrine equally well as it corrects errant Protestant Doctrine.
Nope, not a "typical Catholic apologietic". It is a very simple and direct question that REFUTES and DESTROYS your apologetics if you were to honestly answer it. That is why you didn't answer the question. My question is based on YOUR theology and your statement. So I ask you again: Where does Scripture say that the best way to foster unity is to "put the Bible into the hands of faithful believers all around the world"?

If the Catholic Church's Magisterium is wrong in its interpretation of Scripture, then who's interpretation is right? Clearly YOU must know since you KNOW that "Scripture corrects false Catholic doctrine equally well as it corrects errant Protestant Doctrine". How do YOU know when Catholic/Baptist/Methodist/Luteran (et al Protestant) doctrine is wrong and does not "align with scripture"?

Curious Mary
 

Marymog

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Mary,
If what you say is true about Latin, then what explains the explosion of translations of the Bible after the Reformation? I think your view of history is a bit myopic.
IF what I say is true????? Oh goodness.....




The first complete English-language version of the Bible dates from 1382. About the time of the invention of printing in 1450 there was already 33 different translations of the Bible.

The first print run of the Bible by Gutenberg in Latin took three years to print around 200 copies. That does not mean that all of a sudden there were hundreds or thousands of presses all around the world in just a few short years. It took time to print books and time/money for printing presses to be made, bought and delivered etc. to various countries around the world. By the 1490s Venice was the book-printing capital of Europe and a printed copy of a great work by Cicero cost a month’s salary for a school teacher.

The timing of Luther’s crusade against the selling of indulgences coincided with an explosion of printing presses across Europe. With the explosion of printing presses the cost for the average man owning a bible decreased. It no longer took one months salary to buy one. Literacy also began to increase during this time. A culmination of several events increased the desire for translations of the Bible after the Reformation.

So your accusation of me of being "myopic" in regard to this topic is bizarre. YOU are clearly the myopic one since YOU have a very narrow perspective on why there was an explosion of translations.


Keeping it real with history and facts...Mary
 

Johann

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As I've already stated, your exegete of Scripture is something else to behold.

I beg to differ! The term "the like manner" is merely a shadow (the putting away of the filth of the flesh) as Peter stated in 1 Peter 3:21. It does NOT declare that water baptism is 100% essential for salvation as you claim. The context will not permit. Water is only a vivid symbol and Christ is the substance.

Read Ezekiel 36:25-27....

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do [them

To God Be The Glory
Just one question..............

Mat_21:25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?

Mar_1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Mar_11:30 The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men? answer me.

Luk_7:29 And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.

See above? Not only Jews were baptized while confessing their sins--an ot--sign--that these were repentant, but also the publicans' 'they were openly and publically keeping on their confessions/repentance....

Luk_20:4 The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men?

Act_1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

Act_10:37 That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;


Act_13:24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

So, we have two camps, those that advocate "no water baptism" and those "yes, be water baptized--since this was from heaven and Yeshua gave His approval of Yochanan's "water ministry"

I would like to hear from Catholics and @marks @mailmandan @amigo de christo

Johann.