Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?

[Bible Highlighter]

Hello again, God bless,

When I read the words about "one baptism" in Ephesians. I see this as the one saving baptism into Christ by the Spirit. This is the vital saving one. The other baptisms we read of are important but this must be referring to the one saving one of 1 Peter 3:21, and Mark 16:16, and this would go along with the one baptism that ALL believers are in which is 1 Cor 12:13 and Galatians 3 and other places that describe the one baptism into Jesus Christ where we put on Christ and are members of that one body of Christ. When Jesus is in us and we in him (john 15).

While baptism into the Spirit was not a requirement for salvation under the Old Covenant, it is a requirement under the New Covenant because the Spirit is the down payment of our inheritance (Ephesians 1:14). Without any inheritance, we cannot be saved. For Paul talks about those who do certain sins will not have any inheritance in the Kingdom of God (See: Ephesians 5:3-7). This is dealing with salvation because the Parable of the Sheep and Goats defines inheritance as entering the Kingdom because they helped the poor, and contrasts that with those who did not help the poor who will go away into everlasting punishment (See: Matthew 25:31-46). Plus, we have to be immersed (baptized) into the Spirit as a part of salvation. See also Romans 8:11. No Spirit. No resurrection. Means no salvation.

Baptism by fire done by the Lord Jesus as spoken by John the Baptist (Matthew 3:11) is also a requirement as a part of our salvation because it is dealing with testing our faith and purifying our lives. If we fail all the tests of God in this life and we fail to live holy in this life until the end, we will not be saved. For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

We read clearly in scripture that there is only “ONE” baptism in Ephesians 4:5, and yet that there is more than one baptism spoken of in Hebrews 6:2. One baptism, and baptisms, would seem at first glance, to be a contradiction, but this is not the case. There are about 7 baptisms in scripture, if you don’t include the diverse washings of Hebrews 9 verse, and the Halakah law of the Jews for Gentile converts, which would make baptisms cover many various kinds. But yet we read of one baptism * Ephesians 4:5 KJV) and of a saving baptism 1 Peter 3:21 ( which is not water baptism as i understand but rather a baptism into Jesus Christ where we are raised up into the heavens with him and come to rest in Him and a new life, where inwardly we have the witness and our conscience also has an answer to the inquiry of how we can be saved). Consider these different baptisms, in contrast to the one saving baptism.

But read again the surrounding context of Ephesians 4:5.
The context supports the idea of things we must do as a part of the faith and it is not primarily about God doing something upon us.

#1. Walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called.
#2. Forbearing one another in love;
#3. Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.​

Granted, verse 7 does give some weight to your viewpoint, but the beginning context heavily weighs in with things we must do and believe.
Also, consider that it mentions that there is one Father, one Spirit, and yet they are are a part of the triune Godhead or Trinity. So a person can wrongfully conclude Tritheism on this passage (When it is not teaching that). So the one baptism only makes sense here in the fact it is focused on something we must be concerned with. In fact, the whole chapter of Ephesians 4 is primarily focused on our holy conduct (in doing something) (See: Ephesians 4:17-32). One faith we must live out. One God we must worship. One body we must love. One baptism we must seek to partake of.

1. The baptism unto Moses. “And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea” 1 Corinthians 10:2

2. The baptism of John with water unto repentance “I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance:” Matthew 3:11

3. Jesus baptism, in the Jordan river, to manifest himself to Israel and to fulfill all righteousness. “Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.” Matthew 3:13 -15

4. The baptism with the Holy Ghost and with fire, “he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:” Matthew 3:11. The two baptism here seem to be related to the Power of the Spirit in our lives. The baptism with fire is in need of discussion. A purging may be involved and daily life aspect.

5. Baptism into Christ at salvation, the saving “one” baptism”, “For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.” Galatians 3:27 and “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body...” 1 Corinthians 12:13 and “Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?” Romans 6:3, and “The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us, ( not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. “ 1 Peter 3:21 , Mark 16:16, "
“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved”

6. Baptism unto sufferings, “But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.” Matthew 20:22

7.The Baptising in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost “ Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:” Matthew 28. the teaching immerses all the world in the name ( character life, virtue authority and power of the father the Son and the Holy Ghost. While Jesus was in the earth he kept them in the NAME of the father and manifested the father to them. The Holy Ghost will testify of Jesus and jesus will teach of the father the father reveals the Son and we in Christ teach all immersing them into the name. While Peter was speaking to the Gentiles the Holy host fell on those who heard the word. This is one example.

8. The "diverse washings" of Hebrews 9 and the halakah Law of the Jews. There were many various washings under the law. Even Johns water baptism may fit into these, being a carnal ordinance and diverse washing under the OT. Johns said he must decrease and jesus increase. Johns whole ministry was to decrease as was the Old Covenant.

Yes, my list was not exhaustive by any means. Granted, I do not agree with some of your classifications of baptisms like #7. I also would see the baptism in fire as a separate baptism. #6 I see as a baptism unto death (Which fits the context and other translations). #8. I simply I would just say diverse washings (Sticking with Scripture). The important thing to understand is that we are under any diverse washings that do not apply in the New Covenant. This of course would not include water baptism in Jesus’ name because we see the apostles do this with others several times without any rebuke from the LORD (Especially seeing God was communicating to them directly).

I created a new thread on this.

The Doctrine of Baptisms

 

[LoveofTruth]

Pentecost was an all Jewish audience. Jews are not like Gentiles in that they already believe in God. So I don’t see Pentecost as an example of Initial Salvation but I see a call back to God for the Jew.

Hello brother, God bless,

I must still continue to stand firm in what i see the scriptures say, bear with me if I strongly resist some things here.

The Jews were being called to come to salvation in Christ "initial salvation" it seems clear because Peter said to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ "for the remission of sins" as we read clearly,

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,"

To be baptized into Jesus Christ or in the name of Jesus Christ Paul says we put on Christ to do so (Galatians 3 KJV). And it is by one Spirit that we are ALL baptized into tone body ( 1 Cor 12:13 KJV). All are baptized into Christ in a Spiritual way. Not a physical way. So the one baptism must be the one that saves and into Christ by the Spirit. Mo man can make himself immerse into Christ by a physical act he does. This is not what scripture teaches.They also asked him,

"36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. 37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?...40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation."( Acts 2:36,37, 40 KJV)

It doesn't matter if christians have for the most part over the years done somethings in their practice. If its not scriptural or right we may bear with it for the sake of grace and if it is not sinful in its use we may bear with it.

I don't have a problem with those who say they want to be water baptized as a symbol of figure of some association with Christ (though I don't believe this is the saving one baptism or needed today). I don't say they have sinned, but if they say it is for salvation and that unless you are water baptized you cannot be saved (which various groups do say) them I take issue. I simply want bbeleivers to understand the freedoms they have in Christ and not be bound up under error. The truth makes you free not misunderstanding and wrong interpretation of scripture.

For example, today millions have a one man pastor over the entire church who acts as lord over the flock with supreme power over all and they even make man made "By Laws" so called where he is said to have the power of the pulpit and has others called "elders" under him. He alone has a power that the New tTestament does not give him. In fact we never see such a one man ministry called "the
pastor" over the entire church. We read many verses of every member of the body being able to minister to one another and mutual edification all through the New Testament. We read of "elders [plural)] in every church [singular]. So this one man pastor over all is totally unbiblical and hinders the body from functioning as a church and edifying each other with Christ their head working in them ( Ephesians 4:15,16 KJV, 1 Cor 14:26-37, 1 Thess 5:11, 1 Peter 4:10,11, Romans 12:1-8, etc etc etc).

But I still believe these gatherings are filled with believers in Christ and I would not say they are lost or in danger of hell for such a thing. But they will be bound up and hindered and in some cases they might be even kicking Christ out and he may be seeking to come in unto them and sup with them (Revelation 3but they are in a form without the power. Again this is a 45 hour talk, so maybe for another time

My point is that having a one man pastor over all is totally unbiblical and I'm sure that most in here are under such a wrong order and man made religious form that is scripturally wrong and hinders the body and wuenches the spirit. But I can still work with believers under such a thing. This is similar to water baptism, if they do it as a mere symbol or figure i can bear them. But if they do it for salvation or added to the gospel later for salvation, then I must take issue.

We see similar to this with Paul and the believing Jews. He could bear with them as they were still sacrificing animals and circumcising and keeping the law zealously (Acts 15,16, 21 etc) as long as they were not doing such things for salvation. But when they made it for salvation and misunderstood the purpose of the law (which is to show the sin they were in and set up figures of the salvation offered in Christ) then he took issue (Galatians 2, 3, 5 and many other places). But Paul was trying often to help them be free from the bondage of such things they were under.

One more example of a wrong totally misunderstood thing that most believers say and teach, that they call a man made building of stone and morter a "church". How often do believers drive by a unbiblical religious building and say, "theres my church, or temple", yet no believers are in the building. The man made building is NOT the church, this is according to scripture, yet almost all Christendom calls the building a "church. The true church is the body f Christ a spiritual house built up with living stones, where Christ is the head working in every part. We read of verses where the church meets on their home etc, or bring it before the ears of the church. yet some will fight and argue for this unbiblical unscriptural man made tradition that makes the word of God of no effect and hinders the function of the true church. But I still believe millions of believers are in such places even if they wrongly misunderstand the church and the function and order of the church. Millions do not allow the body to edify each other and use their gifts freely when they gather even though this is a command to allow for them ( 1 Cor 14:37, 38 KJV)

So consider these things.

 

[LoveofTruth]

I believe a Christian who desires to be water baptized but they have never found anyone in this life who believes the Bible as he does to baptize him will also be saved by God’s grace. The point here is a will heart of obedience. But if a believer just simply does not want to be water baptized because they are disobedient, then that is a problem.

The danger here is that you might make some believe they need another man to help them be saved by following water baptism and depending on another persons work to baptize them. Many groups teach this by the way, that you need another man to baptize you to be saved. So salvation for them depends on the work of the flesh in a carnal diverse washing to be saved. You are almost there, not quite, but almost.

As I have said before, the position you hold, (which the vast majority of churches hold) is a hard one to maintain. The position that says, "you must be water baptized, but if you aren't you can still be saved, but you must be or else we doubt your saved, but it is not for initial salvation, but you must, but you don't have to to be saved, but you must etc etc". Either you will shift to the water baptism to be saved side or to what I understand that the true saving baptism is into Jesus Christ where we put on Christ. and not needed outward forms today for such a thing.

When we read verses about us being baptized. This can mean that we through repentance and faith in the gospel are now open in our hearts to receive Jesus Christ and he will enter our hearts through faith, where we are immersed into him and he in us. This is what we do in a sense by repentance and faith.

Also, the gospel that Paul preached and wherein they were saved and keep saved by continuing to believe it does not have any act or ceremonial form etc of another man to do for to us to be saved.

The saving gospel

"1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"(1 Cor 15:1-4 KJV)

Notice there is no water baptism added or added later no circumcision or Mosaic law, or Sabbaths, or foot washing or the Lord's supper, or any other carnal ordinances or diverse washings or sacrifices. Notice he also says by which ye ARE saved (present reality)

Consider this section carefully . It is in 1 Cor where Paul already told them that Christ sent him not to baptize but to preach the gospel. and he is showing in that section that the gospel is not part of water baptism, or any other ceremony. He also told them what the one saving baptism we all are baptized with is, and that being by one Spirit are we ALL BAPTIZED into one body, 1 Cor 12:13 . If we try to add water baptism to the gospel in any way, either as an initial salvation or after as salvation to follow belief in our works we make another gospel for salvation. This is my great concern here.

 

[LoveofTruth]

While baptism into the Spirit was not a requirement for salvation under the Old Covenant, it is a requirement under the New Covenant because the Spirit is the down payment of our inheritance (Ephesians 1:14). Without any inheritance, we cannot be saved. ...Plus, we have to be immersed (baptized) into the Spirit as a part of salvation. For Romans 8:9 says: “Ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of God he is none of His.”

First of all, you changed scripture to fit your doctrine and that is dangerous brother, maybe correct this, you said,

"“Ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of God he is none of His."(Romans 4:9)

You changed the text to fit your view it seems or simply quoted a corrupted text. But it actually says this in the actual bible, KJV,

"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."(Romans 8:9 KJV)

The Spirit of Christ was in the OT and men were baptized into Christ by the Spirit even then. It says if "any man" have not, this any man would include every man of all time. It may have been a mystery that was not known as much but we do read of it in the scriptures. This mystery hath been hid from ages as Paul said,

"Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:"(Colossians 1:26,27 KJV)

Faith is the substance of things hoped for as we see in Hebrews all about the OT saints who had that faith and hope in them.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen....8 By faith Abraham..."

They had Christ in them, or were immersed into Christ in their heats. Christ in you is the hope of glory. All the apostles were also in Christ and he in them before pentecost (John 15, etc) "The Spirit of Christ is required to be in every man since the beginning to be saved. The Spirit of Christ was in the Old testament and even Abraham had the Spirit of Christ in him. If ANY MAN have not the Spirit of Christ.

We see that Abraham also had the Spirt of Christ in him as all believers do of all time, and we even see a connection to baptism, consider,

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ....For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."(Galatians 3:16, 27-28 KJV)

Abrahams seed was not many but one, even Christ. The seed is the word of God, by which we are born again. This is the word of Christ in us. Paul says to let the word of Christ dwell in you richly (Col)

 

[LoveofTruth]

I agree that the one baptism stated in Ephesians 4:5 is water baptism. The bulk of the context supports what we must do vs. God doing something.

No, the one baptism, must be the one saving baptism. Yes baptism saves, but not water baptism, as we see from scripture.

"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"(1 Peter 3:21 KJV)

and

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."(Mark 16:16 KJV)

Notice that the gospel must first be preached and those who believe the gospel are saved as we read in 1 Cor 15:1-4, as Paul preached and he did not add water baptism to it.

But Paul tells us the baptism that EVERY BELIEVER MUST HAVE and it is not water baptism as we see. So this creates a tension in your view, it puts either baptism into Jesu Christ by the Spirit as the one baptism or dunking under water as the one baptism. You stress that it is something we must do. But our part is repentance and faith. By faith Christ will dwell in our heart and we in him and he in us. This faith is how we have access INTO the grace by which we are saved.

Consider the one saving baptism text here and show me water added to them or part of them. They are not what the text says. You must also agree that a person cannot put himself into Jesus Christ by any act he does or any ceremony or by allowing another man to baptize him or put him into Jesus Christ by such an act. It is not the carnal ordinance or diverse washings that immerse us into Jesus Christ it is by the Spirit

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."(1 Cor 12:13 KJV)

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."(Galatians 3:27 KJV). This is baptism or immersion into Christ not into water. and we put on Christ immersed into him, not water.

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"(Romans 3:27 KJV)

So. the one baptism must be the saving one. Unless you want to make a diverse washing and carnal ordinance of the OT as the Spiritual immersion into Christ by some unusual way. I have scripture here that says our immersion (baptism into) Jesus Christ is by the Spirit into one body. So, I can safely say that the one baptism all must have is By the Spirit into the body of Jesus Christ or into Jesus Christ. Our part is repentance and faith, this is not a work or meritous work, for our faith is in God's work for us through Jesus Christ and His work in us.

And we do see the early Jewish believers still under the law for many years (Acts 21) even to the end of Acts which is almost before 70 AD. Acts doesn't cover simply a few weeks or months but many many years.

For example Acts 1 was written around 80-90 Ad , Acts 15 it was said was written around 550 AD, Acts 21 was written around 550 AD. So the Jewish believers were still sacrificing animals and diverse washings and carnal ordinances and under the many aspects of the law zealously and the customs of the Jews for many many years.

Consider this and it might make you reconsider how long the temple and the OT covenant was slowly decaying and ready to vanish for. Then try to imagine Jewish believers in Christ still part of this in some measure for such a long time.

 

[LoveofTruth]

While baptism into the Spirit was not a requirement for salvation under the Old Covenant, it is a requirement under the New Covenant because the Spirit is the down payment of our inheritance (Ephesians 1:14)

I think this is a bit of the misunderstanding that comes up at times here. When I talk of the Spirit baptizing us into the body of Christ or the spiritual immersion into Jesus Christ. This is different than the baptism with the Holy Ghost that Jesus gives. All the apostles were in Christ Jesus before pentecost and had the Spirit of Christ in them.This is done by the Holy Spirit as I see in scripture. We even see some were in Jesus Christ before they had hands laid on them to receive the Holy Ghost in Acts 8. They were saved in Christ first.

 

[LoveofTruth]

When I initially created this thread I held to the view for a while that Spirit baptism replace water baptism

This is not what I taught. I did use Jesus words in Acts 1 and 11 where he shows that John baptized with water but they would be baptized with the Holy Ghost. But this was not what I was talking about when I talk of the baptism into Jesus Christ .

It is evident though that Jesus does show the end of Johns WATER baptism in those text. He speaks that John baptised [past tense] in Water, but [future tense]. John himself said he must decrease and jesus must increase. Showing that his ministry was to end. But the apostles also went all over water baptizing following Johns water baptism, but it was said that Jesus baptized none. So the apostles had been practicing Johns water baptism for a long time before pentecost. I guess it would have been hard to understand to tell all those who were water baptized in water following Johns water baptism and the apostles who also water baptized that this is not what was needed for them, and now they all had to be re-baptized a different way or with different words.I don't see peter saying this. And I don;t see where Peter and the apostles who were baptized by John being re-baptized with different words. The issue Jesus was showing was the baptism with water, and the baptism with the Spirit, not the form of words used in such practice. It was still defined by the water part.

 

[LoveofTruth]

Baptism is simply a part of living out our faith.
We see examples of faith in Hebrews 11.
Faith can be a belief alone (Hebrews 11:3)

Interesting that none of those men in Hebrews 11 were water baptized,

And yes when Christ Jesus was in those men, there will be evidence to show that faith. like fruit from a tree, a good tree produces good fruit. But it cannot be defined in a carnal ordinance that all can do wether they were in faith or not. Or some diverse washing etc. We see many in Israel who did outward acts and yet still were lost.

 

[LoveofTruth]

a note about the Halakah law of the OT Jews

"Immersion, or baptism, did not simply begin in the 1st century A.D. It was a common practice ever since the Torah was given at Sinai. Whenever an individual contracted uncleaness (טֻמְאָה), they were required to immerse in a mikve (מִקְוֶה), or a bath of "living water" (מַיִם חַיִּים) (Lev. 15:13). "Baptism" or "immersion" is tevila (טְבִילָה) in Hebrew. In most cases, after immersion, they would be clean again after sunset (Lev. 22:6-7) (some may not be clean until after eight days for certain defilements).
The English word "baptism" is a loanword from the Greek words βαπτισμός (baptismos) and βάπτισμα (baptisma). (See Trench, Synonyms of the New Testament, Ch. XCIX, p. 370, for the supposed distinction between these two Greek words.)...

The ‘rite’ which the Baptism of John used was not new at all, or limited to sects, but was, based on Old Testament teaching and mainstream rabbinic tradition, however, John used it in an entirely different way. The rite, in the way John used it, fully mirrored his preaching, one of repentance. In the Old Testament those who had contracted Levitical defilement were to ‘immerse’ before offering sacrifice. The symbol goes as far back as Moses, leading Israel through the waters of the Red Sea before the Law was even given. In the Law, for example if anyone touches an unclean bed because a man had a discharge on that bed, they must ‘wash their clothes and bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening.’ (Leviticus 15:5). There were many such ritualistic cleanings through bathing and these became formal in various ways of immersion under the guidance and administration of priests. It was not called Baptism in the Old Testament though outwardly they are the same thing.
 According to the famous evangelical historian and Jew, ‘Alfred Edershem’, who taught Jewish history in the University of Oxford, that Gentiles who became ‘proselytes of righteousness,’ or ‘proselytes of the covenant’ were to be admitted to ‘full participation in the privileges of Israel by the threefold rites of circumcision, baptism, and sacrifice - the immersion being, as it were, the acknowledgment and symbolic removal of moral defilement, corresponding to that of Levitical uncleanness.’. Therefore, although it had never before been proposed that Israel should undergo a ‘baptism of repentance,’ like the Gentiles, John was using an existing rite in a dramatic way to ensure the way was clear for Messiah, by repentance and readiness for the gospel of forgiveness. It was only in preparation of Messiah, as a forerunner should be. Even the righteous under this baptism must consider themselves as Gentiles at this most historic transition from law to gospel.
 There was some debate whether this full immersion Baptism, used to convert Gentiles, ‘predated Christ’ but Alfred Edersheim provides ample proof in his appendix on the subject, in the book 'The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah'- Appendix XII. He quotes that the subject was actually debated by Hillel and Shammai (the great competing schools of traditionalism at the time of Christ). Shammai allowed proselytes to partake Passover ‘after baptism’ but Hillel forbid it. "

 

[Bible Highlighter]

First of all, you changed scripture to fit your doctrine and that is dangerous brother, maybe correct this, you said,

"“Ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of God he is none of His."(Romans 4:9)

You changed the text to fit your view it seems or simply quoted a corrupted text. But it actually says this in the actual bible, KJV,

"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."(Romans 8:9 KJV)

The Spirit of Christ was in the OT and men were baptized into Christ by the Spirit even then. It says if "any man" have not, this any man would include every man of all time. It may have been a mystery that was not known as much but we do read of it in the scriptures. This mystery hath been hid from ages as Paul said,

"Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: 27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:"(Colossians 1:26,27 KJV)

Faith is the substance of things hoped for as we see in Hebrews all about the OT saints who had that faith and hope in them.

"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen....8 By faith Abraham..."

They had Christ in them, or were immersed into Christ in their heats. Christ in you is the hope of glory. All the apostles were also in Christ and he in them before pentecost (John 15, etc) "The Spirit of Christ is required to be in every man since the beginning to be saved. The Spirit of Christ was in the Old testament and even Abraham had the Spirit of Christ in him. If ANY MAN have not the Spirit of Christ.

We see that Abraham also had the Spirt of Christ in him as all believers do of all time, and we even see a connection to baptism, consider,

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ....For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."(Galatians 3:16, 27-28 KJV)

Abrahams seed was not many but one, even Christ. The seed is the word of God, by which we are born again. This is the word of Christ in us. Paul says to let the word of Christ dwell in you richly (Col)

As for Romans 8:9:

Well, actually I quoted a website that misquoted it. So sorry about that. I should have double checked the verse. But I have been extremely busy with personal matters (that I did not get the time to do so - as I normally would do). But check Romans 8:11. No Spirit. No resurrection. No salvation.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@LoveofTruth

I honestly don’t think I will have time to keep replying to you like before. It is very time consuming to give you a proper reply and you wrote a lot. My life situation changed and I don’t have as much time as before.

Anyways, blessings be unto you in the Lord.

 

[LoveofTruth]

As for Romans 8:9:

Well, actually I quoted a website that misquoted it. So sorry about that. I should have double checked the verse. But I have been extremely busy with personal matters (that I did not get the time to do so - as I normally would do). But check Romans 8:11. No Spirit. No resurrection. No salvation.

Ok no worries I know this takes up a lot of time. God bless.

Hey, God bless,

yes whenever you get time

and consider about raising us up from the dead

"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."(John 6:40 KJV)

John 6:54 "Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

also we read

1 Cor 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
2 Cor 4:14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.
Heb 11:19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure."

The Trinity understanding is involved in this

The Father

"Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead)"(Galatians 1:1 KJV)

The Spirit as we already saw and

the Son as i already showed

"No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."(John 10:18 KJV)

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"(John 11:25 KJV)

So God raised Jesus, God that being all three persons of the trinity

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Ok no worries I know this takes up a lot of time. God bless.

Hey, God bless,

yes whenever you get time

and consider about raising us up from the dead

"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."(John 6:40 KJV)

John 6:54 "Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."

also we read

1 Cor 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
2 Cor 4:14 Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you.
Heb 11:19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure."

The Trinity understanding is involved in this

The Father

"Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead)"(Galatians 1:1 KJV)

The Spirit as we already saw and

the Son as i already showed

"No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father."(John 10:18 KJV)

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:"(John 11:25 KJV)

So God raised Jesus, God that being all three persons of the trinity

Yes, I have known for a long time that all three persons of the Godhead took part in the resurrection. But I appreciate it anyways.

The point of Romans 8:11 is not only did the Spirit raise Jesus from the dead, but the Spirit will also quicken (make alive, resurrect) our mortal bodies who dwells in believers. No Spirit in a believer’s life and there will be no quickening or resurrection for them. The receiving of the Spirit as a gift is a part of the New Covenant package of being saved. The Spirit is the downpayment of our inheritance. To have an inheritance with God is dealing with salvation. We are not to grieve the Holy Spirit by which we are sealed unto the day of redemption. If one is not sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption, they are not saved. So Jesus baptizing us into the Spirit is a salvation issue. This of course destroys or bursts the bubble for many people. So they must fight against it. But it simply is the plain reading of Scripture.

Again, not interested in overly lengthy debates (Seeing my time is limited).

Peace be unto you in the Lord.

 

[Johann]

I want to believe all of God’s Word in the New Testament. I want to obey in what He commanded to the early church as much God can give me strength to do.

I hear what you say and there is much confusion on biblical doctrines on Forums, bearing in mind there are Armenians, and Calvinists, each one claiming they have it right.

On Spirit baptism--can you show me, in Scriptures, that it is immersion in water, the same, not the same?

Like you I want to please our Lord and obey His Imperatives.

God bless
Johann

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Spirit baptism did not replace water baptism, they are two different things

in one, one is baptized (immersed) in water

in the other, one is baptized (immersed) into Christ.

One is performed by God. the other by a man

one is the act of God washing us, the other represents what happens at salvation

its sad people get so confused about a non english word (Baptize is a transliteration. not a translation, of the greek word Baptizo)

 

[Johann]

Spirit baptism did not replace water baptism, they are two different things

in one, one is baptized (immersed) in water

in the other, one is baptized (immersed) into Christ.

One is performed by God. the other by a man

one is the act of God washing us, the other represents what happens at salvation

its sad people get so confused about a non english word (Baptize is a transliteration. not a translation, of the greek word Baptizo)

I don't want to start a thread on the various "baptisms" in scripture...nor major disagreements and name calling, not edifying to the body of Christ.



βάπτισμα, βαπτίσματος, τό (βαπτίζω), a word peculiar to N. T. and ecclesiastical writings, immersion, submersion;
1. used tropically of calamities and afflictions with which one is quite overwhelmed: Mat_20:22 f Rec.; Mar_10:38; Luk_12:50 (see βαπτίζω, I. 3).

2. of John’s baptism, that purificatory rite by which men on confessing their sins were bound to a spiritual reformation, obtained the pardon of their past sins and became qualified for the benefits of the Messiah’s kingdom soon to be set up: Mat_3:7; Mat_21:25; Mar_11:30; Luk_7:29; Luk_20:4; Act_1:22; Act_10:37; Act_18:25; (); βάπτισμα μετανοίας, binding to repentance (Winer’s Grammar, 188 (177)), Mar_1:4; Luk_3:3; Act_13:24; Act_19:4.

3. of Christian baptism; this, according to the view of the apostles, is a rite of sacred immersion, commanded by Christ, by which men confessing their sins and professing their faith in Christ are born again by the Holy Spirit unto a new life, come into the fellowship of Christ and the church (1Co_12:13), and are made partakers of eternal salvation; (but see article in BB. DD., McClintock and Strong’s Cyclopaedia, Schaff-Herzog): Eph_4:5; Col_2:12 (L marginal reading Tr βαπτισμῷ which see); 1Pe_3:21; εἰς τόν θάνατον Rom_6:4 (see βαπτίζω, II.
b. aa. at the end). (Trench, § xcix.)
Thayer's Greek lexicon.

For by one Spirit are we all baptized,.... This is to be understood not of water baptism; for the apostle says not in one, and the same water, but "by", or "in" one Spirit, are we all baptized; the baptism of water, and of the Spirit, are two different things; see Mat_3:11.

Besides, all that are baptized in water, are not baptized in or by the Spirit, as the case of Simon Magus, and that of others, show; nor does water baptism incorporate persons into the church of Christ; neither into the invisible church, which is the body of Christ, and here meant; nor into a visible Gospel church state; they being indeed true believers, and baptized, are proper persons to be received into a church; but baptism itself does not put them into it, or make them members of it: persons may be baptized in water, and yet may never be joined to a church.

However....................

There is indeed an allusion made to water baptism, but it is the grace of the Spirit in regeneration and sanctification which is here intended; which grace, both in the Old and in the New Testament, is frequently signified by water, and called a baptism, or a being baptized, because of the plenty, abundance, and superabundance of it, then bestowed; and is expressed by floods and rivers, and a well of living water; and is what qualifies and fits persons for the ordinance of water baptism. Now this is wrought by the Spirit of God, and is owing to his divine power and energy; not to water baptism, which has no regenerating virtue in it; nor to carnal regeneration, or a being born of blood, or of the best of men; nor to the will of any man; nor to the will of the flesh, or the power of man's freewill; but to God, to the Spirit, who is Lord and God, and the only sanctifier of the sons of men; by which spiritual baptism, or by whose grace in regeneration and conversion they are brought into one body: the mystical body of Christ, the universal and invisible church; that is, openly and manifestatively; for otherwise it is the grace of God in election, and in the everlasting covenant, choosing them in Christ, as members in their head, and constituting them such, that puts them among that number; but spiritual baptism, or the sanctifying grace of the Spirit, makes them appear to belong to that body, and makes them meet for, and gives them a right unto, a particular Gospel church, and the privileges of it, which the Spirit of God directs and brings them to.

Whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; it matters not of what nation, or of what state and condition of life persons be; if they are regenerated and sanctified, they appear equally to belong to Christ, to be of his body, and have an equal propriety in all immunities and blessings belonging to his people; see Col_3:11
Gill

Seems like Gill is in agreement with you @Eternally Grateful
J.

 

[Behold]

bNow this is wrought by the Spirit of God, and is owing to his divine power and energy; not to water baptism, which has no regenerating virtue in it; nor to carnal regeneration,
J.

Yes, water baptism could not save a Duck.
The city water supply or a pond, stream, river, or ocean, has no power to wash away sin., as water is just water.

 

[Johann]

Yes, water baptism could not save a Duck.
The city water supply or a pond, stream, river, or ocean, has no power to wash away sin., as water is just water.

Lol!
God bless
J.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

I don't want to start a thread on the various "baptisms" in scripture

Since it has Already been done here?:

13 Bible baptisms

 

[Johann]

Since it has Already been done here?:

OK, I'll delete the post.
Shalom
J.