Do you believe this is...

[face2face]

If Satan is an angel he's not GOD's angel. He will be in Hell soon.

Whose angel is he? Where did he come from?

 

[face2face]

Everyone who has contributed to this thread can see the dilemma facing them but none have shown the honesty or integrity to own up.

1. All angels do God commands (end of story)
2. They delight to do His Will because the share His Nature (Divine)
3. In Heaven God's Will is always done without exception
4. Only human weak nature can sin (Romans 6:23)
5. God's nature cannot sin, be tempted or die (absolutely impossible)
6. Most peoples understanding of the words satan (adversary) and devil (false accuser) is in error and its impossible to reconcile a fallen angel with the Word of God.
7. If an angel could sin, which contradicts Christ teaching that will be like the angels in nature (cannot die) then the reward of the Saints is tainted because "free will" in its truest form will reject God and His Commands. This is an untenable conclusion with the hope being no hope at all.

If you are interested in learning the truth about these subjects feel free to ask anytime.

On the Masters Service
F2F

 

[Jack]

Whose angel is he? Where did he come from?

I didn't say he was an angel. Please elaborate what Satan is if you know. God created Satan. Just like He created all the WICKED.

 

[Taken]

Context here is really important

Yup. And precisely why I mentioned “context” to you.

The word Angels simply means messengers - lets assume for the moment the context is divine messengers...you have the following issues to overcome

You should try to consider “context”…in application to angels and to manKIND are not the same thing.

The wages of sin is death." (Rom. 6:23).

CONTEXT…Rom 6:23 applies to MANS “LIFE”…which is HIS PHYSICAL FLESH AND BLOOD BODY.

If divine angels were sinners, then they would die.

OXYMORON…”DIVINE ANGELS”, do not SIN.

But Jesus said angels do not die. (Luke 20:36).

CONTEXT…
Angels…ARE “spirits”.
Man…….HAS a “spirit”.

CONTEXT…
* Scripture was “WRITTEN; ”FOR ManKIND”.
Scripture was “NOT” Written:
FOR the Lord God,
FOR the Earth,
FOR the Plants,
FOR the Heavens,
FOR the Animals,
FOR the Angels,
* Mention IN Scripture “OF”….
The Lord God, the Earth, the Heavens, the Plants, the Animals, the Angels;
* IS “expressly” FOR the Benefit OF MANKIND. PERIOD.

Therefore, the angels which sinned were human, not divine angels.

Utter nonsense. Angels are NOT Humans.

[QUOTE I'll leave the rest of your post for now as these above four points need your attention. [/QUOTE]

I fully understand;
* God IS Spirit.
* God IS NOT subject to DEATH. Period.
* Angels ARE spirits.
* Fallen Angels ARE subject to spiritual death.
* Spiritual DEATH, DOES NOT KILL THE spirit…SPIRITUAL DEATH, “KILLS” the “ABILITY” to “commune WITH God”!!
* ManKIND…
IS a physical BODY, naturally BORN IN SIN.
* ManKIND…
HAS a natural sinful spirit, NOT “WITH” God.
* ManKIND’s…
PHYSICAL LIFE (BLOOD), must & shall DIE
(God REQUIRES that BLOOD DEATH!)
* ManKIND HAS FREEWILL to Physically CHOOSE, TO BE…”WITH” or “WITHOUT” God, WHILE mankind “IS” physically ALIVE.

* Angels Were ALL created…HOLY, DIVINE, and in communion “WITH God”.
* Angels ALL Have FREEWILL to “REMAIN, HOLY, DIVINE”….”WITH GOD”….or FREEWILL, to REJECT God…and BE “WITHOUT GOD”.
* Divine /Holy Angels…WITH God…HAVE their estate IN Heaven.
* Divine /Holy Angels…WITH God…SERVE God “IN” Heaven and “ON” Earth.
* “Fallen” Angels FREELY CHOSE to “REJECT” God.
* “Fallen” Angels “CONSEQUENCE” for Rejecting God…IS:
** THEY HAVE LOST their Divinity/Holiness.
** THEY HAVE LOST their First estate: heaven.
** THEY HAVE LOST their “communing” WITH God. (Ie they have BECOME “separated” FROM God.)
** THEY “CANNOT” REUNITE WITH God.

* ManKIND is NOT naturally BORN…divine, holy, or WITH God.
* ManKIND HAS the FREEWILL…to BECOME “MADE”
** By their FREEWILL CHOICE…good, holy, divine, WITH God…
** By, Through, Of…the Mercy, the Grace, the OFFERING, the Forgiveness, the WORD and the POWER OF GOD.

You MIXING and MESHING “CONTEXT” that which APPLIES “ONLY” to angels and “ONLY” to manKind…
WILL NEVER lead you to THE TRUTH or the UNDERSTANDING OF the TRUTH”…

Angels …. ARE spirits … they CAN sin… their Consequence FOR SIN….”IS NOT PHYSICAL DEATH”. Their Consequence for sin…”IS” separation FROM God” !

ManKIND …. IS flesh and blood … they are BORN IN sin, they CAN and DO commit sin…their Consequence FOR SIN… “IS PHYSICAL DEATH OF their (LIFE)…ie BLOOD.
Their “SIN” that REMAINS “unforgiven”… HAS a “consequence” of BEING “separated FROM God”.

Not only is the Psalmist wrong about Divine Angels always doing God's Pleasure,

You boldly stating;
“” the Psalmist is wrong “”….is accountable “TO YOU”….your speech…not mine.

you also have a God who has no control of his realm.

You boldly stating…
“” you (I) have a God who has no control of his realm””….IS a BLATANTLY FALSE ACCUSATION and Accountable to YOU, not me. I neither Said nor IMPLIED such nonsense.

Heaven “IS” Gods realm…His Divine Kingdom, His Divine Throne, His Divine Estate, Occupied BY His Divine Faithful Servants.

Earth “IS” Gods Creation…Gods POSSESSION, Occupied BY Faithful AND UNFAITHFUL Created Beings.

God “ALLOWS” His “UNFAITHFUL” created Beings to Exercise their FREEWILL upon the Earth to CAUSE Chaos, Havoc, Tribulations, Hardships, AGAINST ANY manKIND upon the face of the Earth!!

God “STANDS” “WITH” His “FAITHFUL” (angels) and MANIND, upon the face of the Earth, BY COMFORTING, (those said “FAITHFUL”….). THROUGH the hardships and tribulations CAUSED BY tHE “UNFAITHFUL”!!!

Further to this you have a God who is a hypocrite

FURTHER…You continuing to “SPEAK FOR ME”….and THEN “make FALSE ACCUSATIONS AGAINST ME,” ( For WHAT you FALSELY claimed FOR ME)….

Simply REVEALS you are a “GASLIGHTER”.

You have PLAINLY revealed by your own words…you sorely LACK the ability to correctly APPLY Scripture IN CONTEXT.

You have PLAINLY revealed by your own words…your scheme TO Gaslight others…

You alone are Accountable for your own claims.

(Further to this you have a God who is a hypocrite)…Who gives a decree and sentence of death to human but allows rebel angels to roam at will.

Fact IS: God DOES NOT PREVENT ManKIND, Holy divine angels OR “rebel” angels FROM FREELY ROAM THE EARTH at their own WILL!!
Tic, tic…Divine angels, “rebel” angels, manKind have been freely ROAMING the Earth for CENTURIES!!

Your claim: “God is a Hypocrite”…shall have a “consequence” attributed TO YOU…not me, since I never claimed such an idiotic thing.

Go back and re-look at Jude & 2 Peter and study the context...come back when you have insight.

I am not the one IN NEED of reading, studying, understanding…
Nor am I the one stuffing MY WORDS IN YOUR MOUTH, then Disagreeing with you…

You created a thread in a debate forum.
Learn what a debate is, and proceed appropriately…because a debate certainly IS NOT gaslighting, as you have been DOING!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Everyone who has contributed to this thread can see the dilemma facing them but none have shown the honesty or integrity to own up.

Will agree YOUR Contribution to THIS THREAD, has lacked honesty and integrity.

 

[Behold]

If you read the book carefully you will see your adversary is powerless and all the evil is attributed to God Himself.

Its foolish to blame God for the evil that the Devil causes.

And the Devil loves it when a person is so deceived that they believe He has no power, even tho he is still the 'god fo this world".

Why does the devil love it when you dont believe He's real?

Well, most of all, its because when tragedy hits your life, you'll blame God... because you dont realize that the "devourer" has come to you.

So, while you are blaming God, you wont be able to BELIEVE God will heal you, or restore whatever it is that the Devil has taken from your life.

See, if Satan can get you to believe that He is powerless, or that He isn't real,.. then when He destroys some part of your life, with Cancer, or Poverty.....then you will be stuck in CALVINISM, which is why you believe God is "causing it to happen"..

So, you can't have Faith in God when Calvinism/Satan has you falsely believing that God is "doing it to you".

So, the Devil has broken your life, and robbed you of faith....

= You're DONE.
= Satan has WON.

 

[MA2444]

Correct, that's the point! Do you often make comments that assist those you are opposing?
F2F

That doesnt edify me. It doesnt answer any of the questions I asked you either.

 

[MA2444]

You say you read the OP and then make this comment - you're a barrel of laughs.

No I thought you actually made it through a post without talking like a child having a tantum...then I realized I finished answering that post too soon because you went on to talk crap.

Good show!

 

[MA2444]

....And yet you believe angels sin in Heaven

Are you Arthur or Martha?

F2F

Here you go again. I'm not edified yet. You still ignore my questions.

 

[Taken]

Here is a real interesting insight for those interested in finding a truth.

Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, “Now that the man has become like one of us (Angels),

The “LORD GOD SAID”…
“NOT the (Angels) SAID!!!

Why are you “errounusly” attributing WHAT the “LORD GOD SAID”….to (angels) ?

Utterly FALSE!!

You being with a FALSE narrative…
And then WONDER WHY…
No one is IN AGREEMENT WITH YOU.

Use your brains!

Use your brains? Brains being a CARNAL MIND? Really? You are preaching, employing men to USE THEIR Carnal Mind to coming to the UNDERSTANDING of Gods Word…??

Perhaps you should READ … Rom 8: 7 and reason in your Carnal mind what Gods Word says, being in CONTRAST to what “you say”.

Rom 8:
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Hint, hint…
God IS SPIRIT.
Gods LAW is spiritual.
Communication with God is spiritual; (spirit to Spirit and Spirit to spirit!!)
Mans CARNAL MIND is NOT the avenue for understanding a Spirit God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Here is a real interesting insight for those interested in finding a truth.

Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, “Now that the man has become like one of us (Angels), knowing good and evil, he must not be allowed to stretch out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and [/U]live forever.” 3:23 So the Lord God (Yahweh Elohim) expelled him from the orchard in Eden to cultivate the ground from which he had been taken. 3:24 When he drove the man out, he placed on the eastern side of the orchard in Eden angelic sentries who used the flame of a whirling sword to guard the way to the tree of life.

See the issue @Taken @MA2444

Why could God NEVER allow this?

Use your brains!
[U

You have presented a FALSE CLAIM…

Your FALSE CLAIM…

…”]he must not be allowed

to stretch out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat,”

Utterly FALSE! Scripture says NO SUCH THING!

As Adam was being Escorted out of the Garden, they passed BY the Tree of Life situated IN THE MIDST of the Garden…and Adam ABSOLUTELY could have FREELY REACHED OUT and plucked the fruit from the Tree of Life, Eaten that Fruit…and LIVED FOREVER!!

Gen 3:
[22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

“LEST” was Adams ABSOLUTELY Freewill OPTION to TAKE and EAT from the Tree of Life.

You claiming he was…”NOT ALLOWED”…is bold face FALSE!

The FACT IS…Adam Freely CHOSE to not reach out and take and eat of the Tree of Life.

You twisting Scripture to FIT your own False narrative and trying to upchuck YOUR failure of Comprehension ON OTHERS… is only accountable unto YOU…and you are FOOLING no one with your antics!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

But you believe satan to be a rebel angel as well who sinned.

Rebellion AGAINST God…IS SIN…
Doesn’t matter IF committed by an “angel” or “manKIND”…

(IFY…a Rebellion IS a LITERAL ACT of believing there IS A GOD…and then UPRISING and STANDING AGAINST God).




Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

OP…Do you believe this…
...a true assessment of His Angels?

Praise the Lord, you angels of his, you powerful warriors who carry out his decrees and obey his orders! 103:21 Praise the Lord, all you warriors of his, you servants of his who carry out his desires! Ps 103:20–21.

I'm consistently hearing in this forum of fallen angels which clearly is a contraction to the above truth.

Our Father in heaven, may your name be honored, 6:10 may your kingdom come, may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven Mt 6:9–10.

Is His Will always done in Heaven?

So do His Angels "always" do His Pleasure?
Is His Will "always" done in Heaven?

Many of you reading this would say NO! God is not in control of His own House; the Divine Nature being pure, perfect and Holy can sin

Carry through the logic...you wrestle for 70 odd years in the flesh suffering with temptation and sin only to find you will sin as a divine being

Have you got the whole fallen angel doctrine entirely wrong?

99% of this forum are in this position of error!

99% of this forum do not know the God of Psalm 103:20-21 & Matthew 6:9-10

Proceed...

F2F

God CREATED “GOOD and EVIL”.
Created Angels and Created ManKIND, freely choose their OWN Desire to themselves BE, and themselves COMMIT….Good or Evil.

Regardless of an Angels Choice, or a Mans Choice…their being, their acts, their commissions….ARE ACCORDING TO GODS WILL….of ALLOWING them to Freely be wIth or against God…PERIOD.

Holy Angels ALWAYS Righteously serve God (IN Heaven and ON Earth) according to Gods Will.

Fallen Angels ALWAYS Evilly serve God (ON Earth) according to Gods Will.

Gods WILL is what God DESIRES and what God ALLOWS….each SHALL ultimately FULFILL Gods Big Picture PLAN.

Bottom Line…

* And IFY…ONLY the “RIGHTEOUS” shall secure a “FOREVER” right of passage and residency IN Gods Kingdom WITH God…
* ALL Others SHALL be Excluded via [B[separation [/B] FROM God, FROM Gods Righteous Servants and FROM Gods Kingdom.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[MA2444]

Use your brains? Brains being a CARNAL MIND? Really? You are preaching, employing men to USE THEIR Carnal Mind to coming to the UNDERSTANDING of Gods Word…??

Yeah, I notice he never posted 1 Corinthians 2:14 lol. I like the way that the NLT puts it.

1 Corinthians 2:14
14 But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means.../NLT


I tried to lead him into that conversation but he was not having it! And he called me an idiot! I bet he's lucky if his IQ is 100 and even if so, it wouldn't help his carnal mind to understand anything. He must be intentionally being obtuse in some weirded out teenager way. Maybe he thinks he's funny. When anyone puts out a statement and it is 100% rejected as good or truth by every one...that would make a guy think, hmm maybe I have this wrong here? and discuss towards learning at least. But not him. Teenage stoned troubemaker and I think I'm done talking to him.

Holy Angels ALWAYS Righteously serve God (IN Heaven and ON Earth) according to Gods Will.

Because they have integrity. Angels do have free will or else Lucifer wouldnt have fallen himself. That's why there's no sin n heaven. Integrity of heart. Apparently, God can spot the high risk folks, and...they dont make the cut.

 

[Taken]

Yeah, I notice he never posted 1 Corinthians 2:14 lol. I like the way that the NLT puts it.

1 Corinthians 2:14
14 But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means.../NLT


I tried to lead him into that conversation but he was not having it! And he called me an idiot! I bet he's lucky if his IQ is 100 and even if so, it wouldn't help his carnal mind to understand anything. He must be intentionally being obtuse in some weirded out teenager way. Maybe he thinks he's funny. When anyone puts out a statement and it is 100% rejected as good or truth by every one...that would make a guy think, hmm maybe I have this wrong here? and discuss towards learning at least. But not him. Teenage stoned troubemaker and I think I'm done talking to him.



Because they have integrity. Angels do have free will or else Lucifer wouldnt have fallen himself. That's why there's no sin n heaven. Integrity of heart. Apparently, God can spot the high risk folks, and...they dont make the cut.

His confusion of mixing behaviors and applicabilities to angels and mankind is more than obvious. His reliance on his gaslighting is not a big mystery to instantly spot.
Prayers for him to put away his ego and arrogance that no one is buying and rather humble himself before God.

God Bless you,

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[face2face]

I didn't say he was an angel. Please elaborate what Satan is if you know. God created Satan. Just like He created all the WICKED.

I'd be interested in others views on this?

Can you show me where this is taught in the Bible - God creating an evil being with His Divine Nature?

F2F

 

[face2face]

The “LORD GOD SAID”…
“NOT the (Angels) SAID!!!

You know they are His Ministering Spirits sent to do His Will - surely you know this Taken? They carry His name!

Why are you “errounusly” attributing WHAT the “LORD GOD SAID”….to (angels) ?

Utterly FALSE!!

You being with a FALSE narrative…
And then WONDER WHY…
No one is IN AGREEMENT WITH YOU.

No-one is in agreement with the OP because no-one is yet to provide evidence that some Angels can be tempted with evil and can sin while others do not.

Provide an origin story for this rebel angel that clearly shows your beliefs.

It shouldn't be this hard !

Use your brains? Brains being a CARNAL MIND? Really? You are preaching, employing men to USE THEIR Carnal Mind to coming to the UNDERSTANDING of Gods Word…??

Perhaps you should READ … Rom 8: 7 and reason in your Carnal mind what Gods Word says, being in CONTRAST to what “you say”.

Do angels have a carnal mind?

Rom 8:
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Can angels be at enmity with God?

Hint, hint…
God IS SPIRIT.

Can Angels who are that Spirit sin?

Gods LAW is spiritual.
Communication with God is spiritual; (spirit to Spirit and Spirit to spirit!!)
Mans CARNAL MIND is NOT the avenue for understanding a Spirit God.

Glory to God,
Taken

You are almost there Taken!

F2F

 

[face2face]

Gen 3:
[22] And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

One of us?
To know by experience Good & Evil hmmm sounds like Angels to me Taken!

God cannot "know" evil - in no way shape or form can Adam and Even in their sinful state be likened to the Holiness of God in verse 22.

You keep digging a hole which grows ever larger with each reply.

The point being made is man cannot, and will never be able to gain "LIFE" by the strength of his own hand (reaching forth). That LIFE was only going to be granted by an atoning faith through the future man Jesus Christ (God's provision).

So NO, they could not reach forth and eat of that tree (as sinners) - under no circumstances can divine nature sin, under no circumstances would God, the Angels allow man to be able to live eternally, as a sinner.

Hence not only was he led from the Garden but it was protected and you know that protection was absolute lock tight!

It's clear you do not understand Divine Nature or the Gift of Eternity.

“LEST” was Adams ABSOLUTELY Freewill OPTION to TAKE and EAT from the Tree of Life.

You claiming he was…”NOT ALLOWED”…is bold face FALSE!

The FACT IS…Adam Freely CHOSE to not reach out and take and eat of the Tree of Life.

You twisting Scripture to FIT your own False narrative and trying to upchuck YOUR failure of Comprehension ON OTHERS… is only accountable unto YOU…and you are FOOLING no one with your antics!

Glory to God,
Taken

You are struggling now Taken - big time - I can see the intensity in your replies are growing and you are resisting the text - its a bad look!

It's clear you can see the lessons here - don't resist - work it out and all will become clear.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Rebellion AGAINST God…IS SIN…
Doesn’t matter IF committed by an “angel” or “manKIND”…

We have already established it cannot be an angel.

(IFY…a Rebellion IS a LITERAL ACT of believing there IS A GOD…and then UPRISING and STANDING AGAINST God).




Glory to God,
Taken

Agree.

“See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven. Matt 18:10

Christ understood ALL divine angels see the Face of God and behold Him in Holiness and Reverence.

They cannot sin!

F2F

 

[face2face]

God CREATED “GOOD and EVIL”.

God created light and forms (shapes) evil for His own purpose correct. Isaiah 45:7

Created Angels and Created ManKIND, freely choose their OWN Desire to themselves BE, and themselves COMMIT….Good or Evil.

We don't know the origins of Angels other than is more than likely they lived a life of testing like us.

Hebrews 11:6 would make me think that God who does not change would also apply these principles to the Angels - Hence Genesis 3:22
"have become like US to know Good & Evil" is consistent with the way God operates.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Regardless of an Angels Choice, or a Mans Choice…their being, their acts, their commissions….ARE ACCORDING TO GODS WILL….of ALLOWING them to Freely be wIth or against God…PERIOD.

Free will is attributed to the carnal mind which you have already shown an understanding in. Man was made of the earth, earthy carnal etc. The Angels are divine beings who are Spirit.

Period.

Holy Angels ALWAYS Righteously serve God (IN Heaven and ON Earth) according to Gods Will.

Fallen Angels ALWAYS Evilly serve God (ON Earth) according to Gods Will.

Now you are starting to see the issue.

Here your reward is marred - you are granted salvation only to be tempted with evil once more. God's Will is not done in Heaven therefore you have a God Who cannot rule His House or provide you the reassurance of a Holy Pure existence.

Everything about your hope and faith is flawed.

Gods WILL is what God DESIRES and what God ALLOWS….each SHALL ultimately FULFILL Gods Big Picture PLAN.

Bottom Line…

* And IFY…ONLY the “RIGHTEOUS” shall secure a “FOREVER” right of passage and residency IN Gods Kingdom WITH God…

You already told me your belief is a sinnful existence as a Divine Being...your Kingdom is divided! I can't believe you havn't tested your beliefs before now Taken.

* ALL Others SHALL be Excluded via [B[separation [/B] FROM God, FROM Gods Righteous Servants and FROM Gods Kingdom.

Glory to God,
Taken

All other mortals yes!

If you persist eventually you will be forced to acknowledge you have no origin story of a fallen angel. Your reward is tainted and the All Powerful God you believe in is not as Powerful as you first thought.

Mine is.