Do you hope you are good enough?

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AWord2TheWise4u

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Dec 24, 2011
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That is why I asked you how many times have you been to heaven.

Jesus came down from heaven to show me how to get back to heaven.

So when I read about or hear someone tell me or others how to get to heaven or what it takes or does not take to get to heaven,

I sometimes thump them by asking them

if they have ever been to heaven.

In this case I did not do this to show off how wise God has made me.

I did it because I have grown weary of you rehashing this over and over and over

on the internet for a very long time now.

And I want to destroy the works of unrighteousness.

To which I did with this simple but powerful question.

How many times have you been to heaven?
 

biggandyy

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Oct 11, 2011
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In my neck of the woods there is a great Catholic community and even those who aren't catholic (either by choice or by birth) are exposed to the works for salvation mentality. Couple that with the popularity of the Prosperity Gospel (a form of works) and Charismatic Pentecostalism (another form of works salvation) is it any wonder even those who have been exposed to the Truth have a difficult time divesting themselves from their upbringing or community peer pressure.
 

Vashti

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Nov 10, 2011
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According to the Scriptures, no one will be saved for the same deeds, but that does not mean that there is "salvation independent of deeds" - because it's the inflection in the other side. Faith without works is dead, and dead faith does not work.
 

jiggyfly

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Nov 27, 2009
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In my neck of the woods there is a great Catholic community and even those who aren't catholic (either by choice or by birth) are exposed to the works for salvation mentality. Couple that with the popularity of the Prosperity Gospel (a form of works) and Charismatic Pentecostalism (another form of works salvation) is it any wonder even those who have been exposed to the Truth have a difficult time divesting themselves from their upbringing or community peer pressure.

Excellent point BA.
 

RichardBurger

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Jan 23, 2008
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According to the Scriptures, no one will be saved for the same deeds, but that does not mean that there is "salvation independent of deeds" - because it's the inflection in the other side. Faith without works is dead, and dead faith does not work.

So you mix your works (deeds) along with Jesus' work (deeds) and come up with a works based salvation.

A person is saved either by what Jesus did on the cross or by what they do. It can't be both.

I am not saying that a born again child of God will not do go works but they DO NOT do them to obtain salvation. Salvation is a gift of God.

Jesus came down from heaven to show me how to get back to heaven.

So when I read about or hear someone tell me or others how to get to heaven or what it takes or does not take to get to heaven,

I sometimes thump them by asking them

if they have ever been to heaven.

In this case I did not do this to show off how wise God has made me.

I did it because I have grown weary of you rehashing this over and over and over

on the internet for a very long time now.

And I want to destroy the works of unrighteousness.

To which I did with this simple but powerful question.

How many times have you been to heaven?

You seem to get off on your question. Since you ask it of others will you answer it for yourself?
 

Vashti

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Nov 10, 2011
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you can call it as you like and do whatever the purpose, but if you not do anything, then you are far from salvation ... except as the thief crucified ...

The gospel not exempt from work but calls for work.

If the unbeliever do what he wants, or rather does not do anything, what is the difference is the Christian who does nothing?

And if you think that Christians should do good deeds, then why not agree with me?
 

RichardBurger

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Jan 23, 2008
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And if you think that Christians should do good deeds, then why not agree with me?

Because you are saying your good deeds are required for salvation., In other words you are saying your works buy your salvation.
That negates salvation as a free gift.

Are you the judge as to what works earn your salvation?

I believe the only way to salvation is in the work that Jesus did on the cross; His shed blood to reconcile us to himself.

Our works (deeds) are in the eyes of God who is the judge. Most religious people see works as trying to be good and good is in the eye of the beholder.

I see many on forums preaching good works but according to the scriptures, good works will not save anyone.; Please, please let us preach salvation by faith in Jesus' work on the cross and not salvation by our works.
 

biggandyy

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Oct 11, 2011
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Take a look here and see why V and so many others are mistaken about their misunderstanding of James and salvation.

james.png
 
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Vashti

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Nov 10, 2011
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Because you are saying your good deeds are required for salvation., In other words you are saying your works buy your salvation.
That negates salvation as a free gift.

No, this is an endless disputes about words, both as what you said above and below.

Are you the judge as to what works earn your salvation?

I believe the only way to salvation is in the work that Jesus did on the cross; His shed blood to reconcile us to himself.

Our works (deeds) are in the eyes of God who is the judge. Most religious people see works as trying to be good and good is in the eye of the beholder.

I see many on forums preaching good works but according to the scriptures, good works will not save anyone.;

Without deeds is no salvation (except as a thief crucified), because faith without works is dead ( Jam 2:20, Jam 2:26).

Whole Scripture encourages to deeds and not to lie belly to the top, but:

"the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other" ( Gal 5:17 ).

So if someone says " I must nothing" - he listens the desires of the flesh although he justifies noble slogans about faith...

Please, please let us preach salvation by faith in Jesus' work on the cross and not salvation by our works.

I'm not an admin of this forum, I do not weapons anybody anything.
 

AWord2TheWise4u

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Dec 24, 2011
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So you mix your works (deeds) along with Jesus' work (deeds) and come up with a works based salvation.

A person is saved either by what Jesus did on the cross or by what they do. It can't be both.

I am not saying that a born again child of God will not do go works but they DO NOT do them to obtain salvation. Salvation is a gift of God.



You seem to get off on your question. Since you ask it of others will you answer it for yourself?

The answer is more than you.
 

RichardBurger

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Jan 23, 2008
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Take a look here and see why V and so many others are mistaken about their misunderstanding of James and salvation.

Here is my conclusion on the book of James and Paul.

Facts about the book of James: == Note; All scriptures are from the NKJ Bible:

Everyone should be familiar with what James wrote in James 2:20-24
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
22  You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
23  And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend.
24 [sup] [/sup]You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

The above is used by many to show that true faith must be accompanied by works if it is true faith.
Let us explore what James wrote to see if his conclusions are based on facts.

Genesis 15:4-6
4 And behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, "This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir."
5 Then He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."
6 And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.

In the above we see that God accounted Abraham as righteous solely for his faith in His Promises, and not by anything that He did.  This event happened many years before Isaac was born. Paul accurately reports this.

It is a fact that James is using Genesis 22 to base his conclusions. However, it seems that James did not consider the account in Genesis 15.  James conclusions are based on the account given in Genesis 22, many years after Isaac was born, when Abraham was well over 100 years old, and he agreed to offer Isaac.

 
Okay, let us look at the facts:

It is a fact that nowhere does the OT Scripture say that Abraham "was called God's friend" BECAUSE he was willing to offer up his son Isaac. In Isaiah 41:8 it states that God called Abraham His friend but nowhere in the context of the chapter does He say it was because Abraham offered up his son Isaac. Nor does it say in Genesis 22 that Abraham was accounted as righteous BECAUSE he offered up his son Isaac.

What James wrote, as shown above, is a direct contradiction of the Gospel that Paul taught and the account given in Genesis 15:4-6. Abraham was righteous before God solely because he believed God’s promises.

In my opinion, based on the facts, the book of James is devoid of the gospel of grace as taught by Paul. Here are some facts that support my opinion. I find them interesting.

1. The word “Law” is found in 18 places
2. The word “grace” is found in 2 places
3. The word “Christ” is found in 2 places
4. The word “Justified” is found in 2 place with the words “by works” after them
5. The words “by faith” is found 1 time (justified by works and not by faith only)
6. The word “cross” is not found
7. The word “reconciled” is not found
8. The word “sanctified” is not found
9. The word “saved” is not found
10. The words “in Christ” are not found

Romans 4:1-7 Abraham Justified by Faith (Genesis 17:10)
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?
2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.
3 For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."
4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

David Celebrates the Same Truth
5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, And whose sins are covered;
NKJV

So what do we do with the book of James? Should it be in the Bible? --- Of course it should. It was written to the believing Jews; JAMES Greeting to the Twelve Tribes; James 1:1 James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad: Greetings. --- The above is a fact. It was written to the believing Jews who were still under the law of Moses. --- to apply what James said to the grace church that is under Paul’s gospel of grace is wrong.

It is very simple. If a person was a Jew, under the Law of Moses, and they did not do what the Law of Moses required, it was proof that their faith was dead. They had no faith in doing the works of the Law.

However, under grace, to do the works of the Law to show your faith, indicates that your faith is in your doing the works of the Law, not in the work of Jesus (God) on the cross.

Now will come those who will refuse to discuss the facts as presented above but will try to marginalize and demonize me for having the audacity to say the above. But facts are facts and truth is truth.