Does 2 Peter 2:4 Reveal Hell Exists?

[David in NJ]

Hello, what a great honor to be here in focus of wonderful study and enlightenment, may we always give God the glory.

2Peter 2:4 & Jude 1:6
these two passages are the main key verses that are quoted by many Christian believers to point to the idea that the “ Fallen Angels “ have been captured and chained up in ” ταρταρωσας - tartarosas
tartarosas = “ Cast Downward Deep

verse :4 - the Greek manuscripts are here for us to read and understand

ει THAT - γαρ FOR - ο THE - θεος GOD - αγγελων ANGELS - αμαρτησαντων WHO SINNED - ουκ NOT - εφεισατο ARE SPARED -

Αλλα BUT - σειραις CHAINED - ζοφου IN BLACKNESS - ταρταρωσας CAST DOWNWARD - παρεδωκεν DELIVERED - εις TO - κρισιν THE JUDGMENT - τετηρημενους TO BE DETAINED.

Greek manuscripts -
meaning =
:4 THAT FOR THE GOD ANGELS WHO SINNED NOT ARE SPARED BUT CHAINED IN BLACKNESS CAST DOWN TO HELL DELIVERED TO THE JUDGMENT TO BE DETAINED. - -

- in the Greek how is direct evidence of placing this as past tense ? -

also, this coming judgment, is this a judgment “ FOR SAKE OF THE GOD “ - - :4 THAT FOR THE GOD ANGELS WHO SINNED NOT ARE SPARED

here, the scriptures seem to indicate that the judgment is placed on the Angels “ FOR THE GOD “ are there any crimes or sins that the Angels had committed for humans - THAT FOR THE GOD ANGELS WHO SINNED, are punished

also we see further also in - Jud 1:6
verse :6

αγγελους THE ANGELS - τε ALSO - τους THAT - μη NEITHER - τηρησαντας THEY KEPT - την THIS - εαυτων THEIR - αρχην BEGINNINGS - αλλα BUT - απολιποντας THEY LEFT – το THEIR - ιδιον OWN - οικητηριον HABITATION - εις TO - κρισιν JUDGMENT - μεγαλης A GREAT - ημερας DAY - δεσμοις BOUND - αιδιοις ETERNALLY - υπο UNDER – ζοφον DARKNESS - τετηρηκεν KEPT.

Greek manuscripts -
MEANING =

:6 THE ANGELS ALSO THAT NOT KEPT THIS THEIR BEGINNINGS BUT THEY LEFT THEIR OWN HABITATION TO THE JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT DAY BOUND ETERNALLY UNDER DARKNESS KEPT.

are the manuscripts saying that God is reserving angels in chains before the great judgment day. - or is this a future judgment day that is reserved itself ? ︸ TO THE JUDGMENT OF THE GREAT DAY ︸

My study is centered around these two specific passages - 2Peter 2:4 & Jude 1:6 , however there are other passages that are related to these in the focus of “ Fallen Angels “

Does the scripture truly teach that there are “ Fallen Angels “ as I cannot find a single passage in scripture that uses the phrase or title -✣ “ Fallen Angels “✣

in my heart i believe that this teaching was simply embedded in public discourse and general rumored church teaching for a lengthy time before the Scriptures were translated into a modern language in the late 1400s. ✒

and the translators simply embedded the popular theory within the translation because it was one of the main teachings and theologies that the majority believed and knew well from oral teachings, having no modern translation since the Latin Vulgate of the late 400s

Does the scripture truly teach that there are “ Fallen Angels “ as I cannot find a single passage in scripture that uses the phrase or title -✣ “ Fallen Angels “✣

The scripture does speak of fallen angels AND you just posted some of those scriptures.

In relation to God, the word fallen and sin/sinned are synonymous

For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

The Apostle Paul used the word "fallen" when speaking of people who reject Christ and turn back to the Law
Galatians 5:4 - You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

God also declared this to be true of the angels who rebelled beginning with Lucifer - Isaiah 14:12-15

“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.

 

[chandlere880]

O Lucifer, son of the morning!


thanks, I understand what you are explaining, i do appreciate the time you have taken to further expand on the matter, it is of great importance to me. Almost a stumbling block i have with my Christian brothers and Sisters whom somehow - we have misunderstanding between us.

and that gets back to my point i tried to explain earlier

My point is that - when many people hear the title " Fallen Angel " they are imagining the Sinful , Sexually Devant and " Lust Angels " whom had Fallen Down From Heaven and went after " Strange Flesh

additionally - my point i tried to explain earlier ☞ is the great example you have provided of the Angel Lucifer - Isaiah 14:12-15,

this word Lucifer is an Italian / Latin word that is dedicated to the definition of " Light " Glory

on this matter - the original Hebrew word was { Hallal } / ALLAL

son of the morning! - this simply refers to “ AT THE DAWN OR MORNING OR BEGENING OF CREATION - " the sons of God " they were the morning stars who sang with joy

In the Bible, there are three terms

1. rising in the morning. - 2. morning stars. - 3. son of the morning.

These are SYMBOLIC allegoric meaning of the character and denotation and the illustration of symbolism = meaning ……
……. to own or to control or dominate the early morning dawn of a history timeline or time – frame.

The context is " - to have dominion at the beginning “ or start or originate or " be born " in the onset of a beginning time. “ The dawn “ has a symbolic meaning of the first appearance of light in the sky before sunrise. "the new pink rose light of dawn" daybreak, sunrise, first light, daylight; to begin, break, arrive, emerge or come into existence.

A new era in history or beginning of a phenomenon or period of time, especially one considered favorable, dominating, controlling or first or primary control

“ MORNING STARS " or " SONS OF THE MORNING “ { existing } AT - “ THE DAWN
“ “ THE SONS OF THE MORNING “ -or- “ RISING IN THE MORNING "

This all means the origins of a primary, early or firstly originating place or existence, having, obtaining owning and or existing as { BEING } in history, as to exist at the beginning of a period or to possess a possession of rightfulness as of that at the first or original right of power as favorable, dominating, controlling or first or primary control,

ESPECIALLY THE DAWN OR MORNING OR BEGENING OF CREATION- the sons of God were the morning stars who sang with joy

as we see in Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, ……. to him will I give power over the nations:………….. 28 And I will give him the morning star.

Rev 22:16 I, Jesus, …….. I am the root and stock of David, the bright and morning star.
Psa 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power…… from the womb of the morning: having the dew of thy youth.
Eze 7:6 An end is come, ……… The morning is come unto thee, O thou that dwellest in the land: the time is come.
Hos 10:15 ……….: in a morning shall the king of Israel utterly be cut off.
Psa 49:14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave;......in the morning; their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.
Eze 7:7 The morning is come unto thee,..... the time is come, the day of trouble is near, and not the sounding again of the mountains.
Hos 6:3 .... the LORD is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.
Eze 7:10 Behold the day, behold, it is come: the morning is gone forth; the rod hath blossomed, pride hath budded.
Hos 10:15 So shall Bethel do unto you because of your great wickedness: in a morning shall the king of Israel utterly be cut off.
Rev 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.
Isa 17:11 .....and in the morning shalt thou make thy seed to flourish: but the harvest........... day of grief and of desperate sorrow.

There are many of these exact type of symbolic words that define momentous events and periods as a new beginning of dominion

Also we see in - Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven { the shining } Hallal / hêylêl / hay-lale-

איך How you - נפלת fell - משׁמים from heaven - הילל / Hallal - the shining Glory - בן־שׁחר

son of the dawn - נגדעת you cut off - לארץ the land - חולשׁ and were weakened -

על־גוים׃ upon the nations


Meaning

HOW YOU FELL FROM HEAVEN THE SHINING SON OF THE DAWN YOU CUT OFF THE LAND

AND WERE WEAKENED UPON THE NATIONS

this passage is explaining that the king of Babylon was LITERALLY weakened upon the nations and fell down from his height of power.


Isa 14:4 ...... take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, : -

 

[chandlere880]

Isa 14:4 ...... take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, : -

I do not believe this has anything whatsoever to do with Satan or Lucifer

5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers. :6 He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger,...…

.... The king of Babylon, - is persecuted, and none hindereth.

:10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? :11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, ...........the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.


furthermore - in Eze 28:

The King of Tyre is being influenced by Satan and true Satan has a part and a role to play in the sinful, prideful and rebellious heart of the king,

the passage is explaining that Satan's influence upon this King and his kingdom will be brought to nothingness. As these Kings are possessed by powerful evil spirits of influence and power

for example - Dan 10: visited by an Angel Of the Lord

:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia " withstood me " one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

so... what we see here is that the King Of Persia has spiritual power of Satan to withstand and prevent against the power of another Angel who is attempting to minister and visit unto Daniel - but the Angel Michael was needed to intervene to fight the battle for the Angel of the Lord to make contact to Daniel. We see the very power of these powerful Kings who are influenced and in union with the Spiritual Power of Satan whom Satan himself is spiritually influencing and working in the Kings and their attitude and power over others

these Kings are in union with the purpose and goals of Satan who was in the Garden of Eden even influencing the Serpent and attempting to bring about the downfall of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden

BUT I DO NOT BELEIVE THAT YOU NOR MYSELF CAN DEMONSTRATE FROM THE SCRIPTURES THAT SATAN NOR ANY ANGEL HAS EVER FALLEN OR BEEN REMOVED FROM HEAVEN - -

yes, they left the original habitation of where they originated and were placed among the other angels , but my main point i am saying is that - - Satan and his Angels are still in the heavens and have not fallen down to the earth and been banned / removed / cast down and out of heaven yet. I just don't see evidence that there are " Fallen Angels : in the Bible.

In conclusion,, had the King James Translators not copied the word Lucifer and carried this “ Italian “ word over from the Vulgate into the English Translation - Lucifer would not exist in any modern Bible anywhere -

instead the Hebrew word “ hâlal “ would be Translated correctly as Glory or Light

please let me know what you think I would love to discuss this further…. is Lucifer and his angels still roaming the heavens, coming up and down, will they oppose Jesus Christ in the last day and then be cast out in the last days ?

 

[chandlere880]

I notice the great War in the Heavens, of Revelation 12


I honestly believe that the scriptures show that Satan and his angels still have access to the Heavens and that someday all of the angels in rebellion's will finally and forever be cast out of the Heaven.

I truly believe that the Bible shows that there are no " FALLEN ANGELS " in the Old Testament.

Please allow me to explain why, using the Bible.

Does not the Bible clearly shows that the spiritual forces of evil even today and at the time when the New testament was written - they are are today - located / dwelling / located and residing here on earth and their POWERS also are active today - in The Celestials / heavenliness.


Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in The Celestials / heavenliness

This Greek word in The Celestials / heavenliness = The spiritual wickedness are even today - in - The Celestials / heavenliness

Also located, where the Angels - who are themselves ““ Spirits ““ are also located - today the principalities, powers, the rulers of the darkness of this world, the powers of spiritual wickedness and the POWERS OF GOOD are CURRENTLY / NOW in - The Celestials / heavenlies \

What does this mean - spiritual wickedness in The Celestials / heavenliness ?

When the New Testament was written, the authors believed that Satan and his Angels were not kicked out of heaven but were on earth and also held power in the Celestials / heavenlies

Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him in his own right in the The Celestials / heavenliness


Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in The Celestials / heavenliness in Christ Jesus:

Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in The Celestials / heavenliness might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in The Celestials / heavenliness in The Anointing

Don’t you agree - that the powers of spiritual wickedness in The Celestials / heavenliness …… - this is also where The Anointing and Spirit Of God and the Powers of his Angels also are located. Does this seem very clear in God’s word. ?

From the very beginning we see in - Rev 1: Verse - 1

That the Book Of Revelation is - The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, TO SHEW unto his servants

THINGS WHICH MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS; FOR THIS TIME AT HAND.


From the very beginning, in Revelation, we see clearly that the entire Book is dedicated to - SHEWING unto his servants - - THE THINGS WHICH MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS; = the future. In fact, my friends, there is not a single event or happening revealed in Revelation that mentions, brings up or reveals a single event from the past.

Every single last event in the Book is solely and entirely { only } about the Present and the future only.


Rev 20:10 And the devil that ““ deceived them """ was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceived - THE WHOLE WORLD : he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

notice what The Holy Spirit is saying here - it is saying that ““ Satan, which had " deceived the whole / entire world " was

CAST OUT into the earth, and his ANGELS were cast out with him. From the very beginning, in Revelation, we see clearly that the entire Book is dedicated to - SHEWING unto his servants, THE THINGS WHICH MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS; = the future.

Nothing from the past is revealed, transpiring or ongoing in the Book Of Revelation. Satan and his Angels are CAST OUT _ ONLY _ AFTER THEY HAD - deceived the whole entire world. The passages in Revelation are very chronological, very event- ly laid out step by step, event by event, exactly as God will do.

Chapter - 1. ”” Jesus commands John to Write a book and sent the book to the churches.


Saying - Write in a book what you have seen, WHAT IS NOW and what WILL TAKE PLACE LATER ”” - not the past events and past timeline of his creation.

Again - - Rev 4:1 - in the manuscripts - continues to clarify and distinguish that this has absolutely nothing to do with the past. Saying Come up hither, and I WILL SHEW THEE THINGS WHICH MUST BE HEREAFTER.

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

If we read the book from the beginning, relying upon the original manuscripts the Bible bears these facts out clearly. - Satan and His Angels are thrown out of heaven / FALLEN - only after they HAD succeeded in DECEIVING THE WHOLE / ENTIRE WORLD - then - WAS CAST OUT INTO THE EARTH, AND HIS ANGELS WERE CAST OUT WITH HIM.

 

[chandlere880]

perhaps the Translators forgot to use the word Lucifer in Rev 12:9

:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceived - THE WHOLE WORLD : he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

honestly, I am more and more confused about it every time I read the translation, If I translate from the Greek and Hebrew there is no confusion but I cannot help to question myself, please help me