Hey angels! I often wonder it too...if we are trying to say similar things. But just when I start thinking it, he goes and says something that is just not right. Apparently I worship a 'different god' because I go to Church on a Sunday. And apparently (and here is where he just starts to get plain old confusing!) salvation is by grace alone...except it's not, because we are also required to DO what God wants in order to be saved. He contradicts himself, and then calls me an 'accuser' when I point this out! I've tried to clarify this point, because, like you, I thought he was trying to communicate that as truly regenerated people we should hate and avoid sin as best we can. But every time I try to do that, he says I 'read the bible differently to him...feel free to worship my different god!' So, I dunno!
Does 2 Peter 2:4 Reveal Hell Exists?
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Hey angels! I often wonder it too...if we are trying to say similar things. But just when I start thinking it, he goes and says something that is just not right. Apparently I worship a 'different god' because I go to Church on a Sunday. And apparently (and here is where he just starts to get plain old confusing!) salvation is by grace alone...except it's not, because we are also required to DO what God wants in order to be saved. He contradicts himself, and then calls me an 'accuser' when I point this out! I've tried to clarify this point, because, like you, I thought he was trying to communicate that as truly regenerated people we should hate and avoid sin as best we can. But every time I try to do that, he says I 'read the bible differently to him...feel free to worship my different god!' So, I dunno!
Show me anything that I have taught that contradicts Scripture and is a heretical teachings and that will cause a person to be lost.
I look forward to it so I can view it.
God bless.
How about you go first. You said if I showed where you said I was heretical and worshipping a false god you would apologise. Well, I showed you...post #17 above.
I am sorry for my comment if it came across the wrong way. I chose poor wording. What I really meant to say was that it seems we are worshiping a different God. My God will destroy the lost, and your God will keep the lost alive forever in a eternal punishment fire. I sincerely apologize if you have been offended and upset with my comments, please forgive me.
So now..please Rach, show me anything that I have taught that contradicts Scripture and is a heretical teachings and that will cause a person to be lost.
Thank you.
God bless.
It's okay. I'm not mad at what you said, but you are mistaken. I've never actually said that I believe God will burn the unsaved alive forever. In fact I said the very opposite...I do NOT think that God will do it. My point was this: when people say 'God is going to torment (or torture) unbelievers' we tend to think of torture in human terms...the grievous bodily harm done by humans to other humans. Without a doubt this kind of torture is evil. So, it's probably not realistic to consider this kind of torment when the Bible talks of torment. I don't know what the punishment of the unredeemed will be...and I don't need to know. I happily leave that up to God, who is fair, good and just. All I've been trying to say about the topic is this...we can know 3 things about it certainly from scripture: 1, it will be eternal. 2, it will not be were the redeemed are and 3, it is something we do not want, for ourselves or for anyone...it is to be feared.
You can disagree with me if you want, but it is not fair or biblical grounds for you to accuse me of worshipping a demon (which is what any 'false' god is).
Here we have a bit of a problem. Because I feel I have already given you biblical proof that shows you of being unbiblical. You disagree with me over what said passages mean. The problem with that is I could probably show you a verse that said "Truthseeker is wrong" and you'd say 'it doesn't mean that'...if you didn't want to think it. There are many, many verses that talk about how falling back on the dead traditions of the law are a danger to a person's salvation, but I won't post them all. This one is pretty good, and spells it out for us.
For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.
Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.
You were running well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion is not from him who calls you. A little leaven leavens the whole lump. I have confidence in the Lord that you will take no other view, and the one who is troubling you will bear the penalty, whoever he is. But if I, brothers, still preach circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been removed. I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!
For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another.
(Galatians 5:1-15 ESV)
Ok Rach, thank you for your reply and for clarifying your belief about "hell".
God bless.
OK, so we've had a lot of 'back and forth' on whether the "lake of fire" event means an eternal punishment of the wicked burning forever and forever like a piece of bacon.
But none of that has a thing to do with the actual place 'now' in the Heavenly which Apostle Peter called 'tartaroo' ("hell") in the 2 Peter 2:4 verse!
It's that place the KJV Bible rendered as "hell" there which is where the angels that sinned are kept in chains of darkness until the Judgment...
2 Pet 2:4
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
(KJV)
Jude said the exact same thing about those fallen angels that sinned...
Jude 1:6
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
(KJV)
What's the chance that two given to write under influence of The Holy Spirit like Peter and Jude could be wrong about that place of darkness that exists still right now?
Luke 8:30-31
30 And Jesus asked him, saying, "What is thy name?" And he said, "Legion": because many devils were entered into him.
31 And they besought Him that He would not command them to go out into the deep.
(KJV)
Rev 9:11
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
(KJV)
But none of that has a thing to do with the actual place 'now' in the Heavenly which Apostle Peter called 'tartaroo' ("hell") in the 2 Peter 2:4 verse!
It's that place the KJV Bible rendered as "hell" there which is where the angels that sinned are kept in chains of darkness until the Judgment...
2 Pet 2:4
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
(KJV)
Jude said the exact same thing about those fallen angels that sinned...
Jude 1:6
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
(KJV)
What's the chance that two given to write under influence of The Holy Spirit like Peter and Jude could be wrong about that place of darkness that exists still right now?
Luke 8:30-31
30 And Jesus asked him, saying, "What is thy name?" And he said, "Legion": because many devils were entered into him.
31 And they besought Him that He would not command them to go out into the deep.
(KJV)
Rev 9:11
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
(KJV)
What amuses me is that many people also claim this place of "darkness" is hell where there is a high intense fire burning. There is no way there would be an inch of darkness if there was an intense fire burning lol.
God bless.
It's because that Heavenly abode of the wicked called "hell" is NOT... the future "lake of fire" event.
Isa 42:6-7
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
(KJV)
Isa 49:8-9
8 Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;
9 That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places.
(KJV)
1 Pet 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
(KJV)
Isa 42:6-7
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
(KJV)
Isa 49:8-9
8 Thus saith the LORD, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;
9 That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places.
(KJV)
1 Pet 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
(KJV)
I better explain something to you veteran. There is no hell, only a future lake of fire. Do you seriously believe there is a burning hell right in the middle of the Earth or somewhere else? Seriously? It's not biblical veteran. The dead are dead and cannot be alive yet because Judgement day is future so they cannot have been judged to hell or heaven yet.
God bless.
The apostle Peter uses tartarosas, a verbal form of the proper noun Tartarus, to explain the fate of some of the fallen angels. He states that for their sins, these angels had been tartarosas, which ALGNT says literally means to "hurl into Tartarus." Tartarus is also known in the Bible as "the Abyss" (Luke 8:31; Rev. 9:1, 2, 11; 11:7; 17:8; 20:1, 3). This is the place where some of the fallen angels are kept chained in darkness, awaiting "the judgment of the great day" (Jude 6). The Bible implies that only fallen angels and demons are currently restrained there.
geenna, the Greek word most commonly translated as "hell" in English. Geenna is often associated with "fire" when it is used (Matt. 5:22; 18:9; Mark 9:43, 45, 47; Jam. 3:6).
In Yeshua Messiah,
Bob
geenna, the Greek word most commonly translated as "hell" in English. Geenna is often associated with "fire" when it is used (Matt. 5:22; 18:9; Mark 9:43, 45, 47; Jam. 3:6).
In Yeshua Messiah,
Bob
God's Word implies that the abode of the wicked is like a 'prison' house...
1 Pet 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
(KJV)
Satan's place is the 'pit', and it is also referred to as a prison...
Rev 20:7
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
(KJV)
Let's see, the devi is cast into 'prison', the rebellious angels are in 'chains' in tartaroos, and the spirits Jesus went and preached to were in 'prison'. Pretty obvious they're all references to the same... place, an abode of separation away from God in the heavenly.
1 Pet 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also He went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
(KJV)
Satan's place is the 'pit', and it is also referred to as a prison...
Rev 20:7
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
(KJV)
Let's see, the devi is cast into 'prison', the rebellious angels are in 'chains' in tartaroos, and the spirits Jesus went and preached to were in 'prison'. Pretty obvious they're all references to the same... place, an abode of separation away from God in the heavenly.
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