Does God give us faith, or do we give God faith?

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robert derrick

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"All this has HAPPENED the instant you Give God your Faith."

By the words of faith from some people, I know I don't want anything to do with it, much less God.

Does God really want a piece of our mind, or are we not supposed to want His mind on things?

Who in the wide wide world of idolatry even thinks of giving God our faith? As though God needs us to clue Him in on what pleases Him? Is He waiting to hear the words that proceed from our mouths, or aren't we supposed to hear the words that proceed from His mouth?

Some people are truly full of themselves and their faith.

Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
 

quietthinker

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Does God give us faith, or do we give God faith?
Does a live body breath or does breath give life to the body?
 
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Earburner

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"All this has HAPPENED the instant you Give God your Faith."

By the words of faith from some people, I know I don't want anything to do with it, much less God.

Does God really want a piece of our mind, or are we not supposed to want His mind on things?

Who in the wide wide world of idolatry even thinks of giving God our faith? As though God needs us to clue Him in on what pleases Him? Is He waiting to hear the words that proceed from our mouths, or aren't we supposed to hear the words that proceed from His mouth?

Some people are truly full of themselves and their faith.

Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Being repentant towards God the Father,
we all must have faith to believe that Jesus is the only Savior, for the forgiveness of sin.

Now that we have been forgiven, we must ASK for the Gift of His Holy Spirit, of whom is Jesus, bringing God the Father, who is within Him (Luke 11:13, John 16:13, Romans 8:9).

In the moment of our literal conversion into "a New Creature"/CREATION of God, the character of their Holy Spirit, being One together, takes up residence within us, thereby giving us the opportunity to enable us to live/walk in the character of God, and not in the way of our own going of our flesh and fleshly mind.

Therefore, "we have this treasure within earthen vessels", impressing upon us "the fruit of the Spirit", of which one of the characteristics is "THE FAITH of Jesus".
KJV Galatians 5[22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, FAITH,
[23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
 
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Behold

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"All this has HAPPENED the instant you Give God your Faith."

.


God accepts our faith to give us the "Gift of Salvation".

God gives you JESUS, and you give God your Faith in Jesus, or not.

If not then here.. John 3:36

Faith is "free will" choice, and God does not make it for you, or cause it to happen against your "choice' or "will".

We are presented with The Gospel, and we hear this truth, and the Holy Spirit leads us into conviction and we go to the Cross, and BELIEVE.... or not.
This is "FAITH" manifesting as : "faith COMES by hearing" and "HEARING by the word of God". (Preaching, Teaching, witnessing).


John Calvin teaches that God knocks you down and forces Christ into you, and you have no choice.
John Calvin is a theological fool who created the gospel according to Calvinism, and it's one of the devil's finest theologies.
One of many of His "doctrines of Devil's". Hebrews 13:6
 

robert derrick

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Being repentant towards God the Father,
we all must have faith to believe that Jesus is the only Savior, for the forgiveness of sin.

True. Our faith and trust should only be in Jesus as Lord and God, and not in the gods of nations and other religions.

OSAS unconditional salvation, by faith alone without works, is not the gospel of believing in Jesus as the only true God, which is the OSAS gospel God rebukes in James:

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Would you like to address their new self-contradictory lie, of how they are now saved by faith alone, that is never alone?
 

Earburner

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Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Would you like to address their new self-contradictory lie, of how they are now saved by faith alone, that is never alone?
Well of course I shall address it.
James was speaking to the 12 tribes of Israel, who literally and fervently believed in the One God. As a result, James was pointing to that which was the works of God that Israel are called to do. And that work, is to believe on Him, whom their One God sent as their Messiah. John 6:29
 

robert derrick

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Well of course I shall address it.
James was speaking to the 12 tribes of Israel, who literally and fervently believed in the One God. As a result, James was pointing to that which was the works of God that Israel are called to do. And that work, is to believe on Him, whom their One God sent as their Messiah. John 6:29
You're not getting the point. No matter. It's just about the illogic of talking about being saved by faith alone without works, and then saying that faith is not alone, just not with works.

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

It's not possible for any faith to be alone, except it has works with it.

The question here is not about believing Jesus is the one true God alone, which is the truth.
 

Earburner

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You're not getting the point. No matter. It's just about the illogic of talking about being saved by faith alone without works, and then saying that faith is not alone, just not with works.

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

It's not possible for any faith to be alone, except it has works with it.

The question here is not about believing Jesus is the one true God alone, which is the truth.
No, you are not getting it. For us to believe in His Son, is the complete work of God that we should do.
 
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Tommy Cool

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A better translation for this would be Faith (believing) without action is dead.

If you want to implement the promises of God…. it takes believing action. That means knowing without a doubt …and acting simultaneously.
 
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Earburner

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Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Which is saying: "Yeah, I believe in Jesus", but never being repentant towards God, or follow Jesus in the SPIRITUAL likeness of His resurrection, aka being baptized by water and being born again by/of His Spirit.
Romans 8:8-9.
 

robert derrick

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No, you are not getting it. For us to believe in His Son, is the complete work of God that we should do.

Believing alone is not a work, but only an exercise of the mind.

Which is saying: "Yeah, I believe in Jesus", but never being repentant towards God, or follow Jesus in the SPIRITUAL likeness of His resurrection, aka being baptized by water and being born again by/of His Spirit.
Romans 8:8-9.

Spiritual repentance only is in the mind only, which is dead faith alone.

Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
 

mailmandan

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OSAS unconditional salvation, by faith alone without works, is not the gospel of believing in Jesus as the only true God, which is the OSAS gospel God rebukes in James:
We are saved by faith in Christ "alone" - apart from the merit of works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) yet authentic faith does not remain "alone" - apart from the presence of works. (James 2:14-24)

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To “believe” the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. The gospel is a message of grace to be received through faith. The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed, or a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation.

Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

Would you like to address their new self-contradictory lie, of how they are now saved by faith alone, that is never alone?
It's neither a contradiction or a lie. You just need eyes to see and ears to hear.

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is substantiated, evidenced by works. (James 2:14-24) Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*
 
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atpollard

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Does God give us faith, or do we give God faith?
Does a live body breath or does breath give life to the body?
[Genesis 2:7 NASB95]
7 Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.​

Breath gives life.

[John 3:5-8 NASB95]
5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit* he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit* is spirit*. 7 "Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' 8 "The wind* blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit*."​

Physical and Spiritual.

*πνεῦμα pneûma, pnyoo'-mah; from G4154; a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively, a spirit
 
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robert derrick

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We are saved by faith in Christ "alone" - apart from the merit of works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) yet authentic faith does not remain "alone" - apart from the presence of works. (James 2:14-24)
Preaching faith in Christ alone is not the OSAS doctrine of having one's own dead faith alone without works.

Faith alone is never with works, which is why God calls it dead. When faith does have works, then it is faith that saves. Not until then. If we are not being doers of the word, we are not born of God, but hearers only.

OSAS like you try to say your dead faith alone will also have works, but when your works are evil, you still trust in your own dead faitha lone to be saved by. Your dead faith alone only gives lip service to the Lord and obeying the Lord.

The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To “believe” the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. The gospel is a message of grace to be received through faith.

The good news of the gospel is commandment to repent, which the righteous are glad to hear of power with Jesus to go and sin no more. OSAS only wants to hear about being forgiven and saved by their own faith alone. They spiritualize repentance into a change of mind only, or just ignore it altogether.

Repentance is of dead works of the flesh, not just a doctrinal change of mind. The saints obtain eternal salvation by obeying Jesus. OSAS thinks they already have it by their own doctrine alone.

To believe Jesus is to obey Him. All else is dead faith alone producing self-justifying doctrine only. If we're not obeying Jesus inwardly and outwardly, our soul is just as dead as Adam's the day he ate thereof, and separated himself and died to the Spirit of Christ.

The gospel is not a set of rituals to perform, a code of laws to be obeyed, or a check list of good works to accomplish as a prerequisite for salvation.

But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

You can doctrinally reject the law of Christ all you want, and refuse to do it, but them without law will also perish, even as them that transgress His law.

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

All you have is word-filled doctrine. No man goes to heaven by power of their own doctrine alone, while doing lawless works of the flesh.

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," but they do not believe in/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

Faith only is mental ascent only, which is proven by continued works of the flesh with the devil. No man while sinning with the devil is doing any good at all:

Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God.


No man is righteous while doing the devil's unrighteousness. The righteous are only those doing God's righteousness.

No matter what their doctrine tells them otherwise.

It's neither a contradiction or a lie. You just need eyes to see and ears to hear.

I see. Faith alone never being alone, must be understood spiritually.

No thanks. I'm not at all interested any doctrine made by one's own faith alone, that results in having to spiritualize away standard intelligence, that God gives to any child. When even a child looks at your cross-eyed, you know you're making no sense at all.

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is substantiated, evidenced by works. (James 2:14-24) Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24) *Perfect Harmony*

Jesus forgives and saves any soul believing and confessing with godly sorrow to Him.

Faith without the humbling work of confessing to Jesus, is dead, being alone in one's mind only.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

The only way for faith not to be alone and dead, is only when it has works.

No doctrine of man will change the truth of Scripture of God.

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Neither Paul nor any other Scripture of God ever said man is saved by faith alone. The only time faith alone is ever spoken of by a prophet and apostle of God, is to condemn it as dead.

No man will ever justify themselves and get to heaven, by teaching their own false doctrine made by their own dead faith alone.
 

mailmandan

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Preaching faith in Christ alone is not the OSAS doctrine of having one's own dead faith alone without works.

Faith alone is never with works, which is why God calls it dead. When faith does have works, then it is faith that saves. Not until then. If we are not being doers of the word, we are not born of God, but hearers only.

OSAS like you try to say your dead faith alone will also have works, but when your works are evil, you still trust in your own dead faitha lone to be saved by. Your dead faith alone only gives lip service to the Lord and obeying the Lord.

The good news of the gospel is commandment to repent, which the righteous are glad to hear of power with Jesus to go and sin no more. OSAS only wants to hear about being forgiven and saved by their own faith alone. They spiritualize repentance into a change of mind only, or just ignore it altogether.

Repentance is of dead works of the flesh, not just a doctrinal change of mind. The saints obtain eternal salvation by obeying Jesus. OSAS thinks they already have it by their own doctrine alone.

To believe Jesus is to obey Him. All else is dead faith alone producing self-justifying doctrine only. If we're not obeying Jesus inwardly and outwardly, our soul is just as dead as Adam's the day he ate thereof, and separated himself and died to the Spirit of Christ.

But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

You can doctrinally reject the law of Christ all you want, and refuse to do it, but them without law will also perish, even as them that transgress His law.

For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

All you have is word-filled doctrine. No man goes to heaven by power of their own doctrine alone, while doing lawless works of the flesh.

Faith only is mental ascent only, which is proven by continued works of the flesh with the devil. No man while sinning with the devil is doing any good at all:

Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God: but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God.


No man is righteous while doing the devil's unrighteousness. The righteous are only those doing God's righteousness.

No matter what their doctrine tells them otherwise.

I see. Faith alone never being alone, must be understood spiritually.

No thanks. I'm not at all interested any doctrine made by one's own faith alone, that results in having to spiritualize away standard intelligence, that God gives to any child. When even a child looks at your cross-eyed, you know you're making no sense at all.

Jesus forgives and saves any soul believing and confessing with godly sorrow to Him.

Faith without the humbling work of confessing to Jesus, is dead, being alone in one's mind only.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

The only way for faith not to be alone and dead, is only when it has works.

No doctrine of man will change the truth of Scripture of God.

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Neither Paul nor any other Scripture of God ever said man is saved by faith alone. The only time faith alone is ever spoken of by a prophet and apostle of God, is to condemn it as dead.

No man will ever justify themselves and get to heaven, by teaching their own false doctrine made by their own dead faith alone.
I cannot explain the truth to you any clearer than I already have in post #12 and I could continue to explain the truth to you until I'm blue in the face, but you JUST WON'T GET IT and there is a reason for that. (See - 1 Corinthians 2:11-14; 2 Corinthians 4:3,4). I just hope and pray that at least a seed has been planted that one day will be watered and lead you to the truth. Only the Lord can open your eyes to the truth, but you must be willing to accept the truth. I will continue to pray for you.
 
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robert derrick

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I cannot explain the truth to you any clearer than I already have in post #12 and I could continue to explain the truth to you until I'm blue in the face, but you JUST WON'T GET IT

Neither of us will from the other. You're pride has prevented you from seeing, that there are Christians who want nothing to do with your doctrine.

Stop teaching being saved by your own faith alone, and start teaching being justified with Christ by works of faith, and then we may agree on something.

Until then, I keep to what is written only, and reject anything taught against it. The only reason I continue to respond to your type of doctrine, is only for the Scriptural exercise of correcting error. I don't ever come looking for you, but you always persist in returning to me like a moth to the flame.

That is because I know your stuff is false, and you know you are convicted by my teaching of Scripture.

I just hope and pray that at least a seed has been planted that one day will be watered and lead you to the truth. Only the Lord can open your eyes to the truth, but you must be willing to accept the truth. I will continue to pray for you.

And even if I were to turn from the truth to agree with your dead faith alone, it would only make us both wrong, and I would be worse off than you, because I already know every detail of your error against Scripture.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

So pray for me all you like, and the Lord will turn your proselytizing efforts into dust at my feet to shake off completely.

I have learned more than ever the lies of OSAS by reading exactly what you people write about it. And so it has made me more sure and firm than ever that no man can be saved by faith with works and alone, and can only be justified by faith with works, that is not alone.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

No, it can't.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Yes, I do.

All the myriad twistings and turnings you people make, is just to reject these two plain verses of Scripture.
 

mailmandan

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That salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9) is not hard to understand. It's just hard for you to ACCEPT. It's a shame that human pride will not allow you to place your faith in Jesus Christ alone for salvation. Your hands are full of your works and you will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith. (Romans 4:5-6; 11:6) I find no conviction whatsoever from your "works based" false gospel and your moth to the flame comment further exposes your pride and arrogance. I respond to your posts on occasion in order to expose your false doctrine and plant seeds, especially for the sake of others. I really don't expect you to accept the truth, but with God all things are possible.

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

You need to embrace the truth that James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3)

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is substantiated, evidenced by works. (James 2:14-24) Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works. It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-24)

I find it ironic that you would quote a verse that mentions Pharisees because I'm continually reminded of the parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector whenever I read your posts and you certainly do not fit the description of the Tax Collector. Self righteousness is the enemy of the gospel.

Luke 18:9 - Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ (notice all the "I") 13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
 

mailmandan

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No, you are not getting it. For us to believe in His Son, is the complete work of God that we should do.
Amen! John 6:28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
 

atpollard

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One small question: Ordo salutis (order of salvation)

When are we Justified?
  • [definition of terms] Justification: God’s freeing of one from the penalty of sin—the pronouncement of "not guilty" on a sinner (Romans 5:9).
 

Earburner

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Believing alone is not a work, but only an exercise of the mind.
Then you better inform Jesus that he has got it all wrong.
John 6[28] Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work [do] the works of God?
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God [that you should do], that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Believing in Jesus is TRUSTING in Jesus that all of your sins have been forgiven and removed, just as a little child trusts his/her parent(s) for all their needs.
Of course if you can't trust in Jesus to remove all your sins by His blood alone, then you have alot of works to do, to compensate for God's FREE Grace, of which you will fall terribly short.

You best listen to the story about Martha and Mary again, of which really is a parable for us to understand, of who it was exactly, that was doing what God desired. Somebody wasn't happy with Mary, and Mary didn't care. However, Jesus didn't redirect her either! Luke 10:38-42.
 
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