Is it true that Satan must ask God's permission for every single little thing and temptation he desires to foist upon God's children and creation writ large? Or does God give him a certain latitude that he may creatively unleash hell on us, but only to a certain point, like a dog with a shock collar going to far off the property and getting zapped because he went to far? We see in Job that Satan asked permission but does this story apply to everyone else today?
Does Satan really need God's permission before doing (literally) anything and everything?
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Zachariah.
Active Member
Satan is an aspect of God. The translation of Satan means "the divider" which is a reference to the essence of duality.
The divine, or Holy aspect of God is just that, it's "whole" or "one". It's the essence of unification, not division.
But the thing is we need the essence of duality or we would not have our own bodies and we would not be able to tell the difference between me and you. It's like I would be putting my hat on your head because I see everything as one. Duality and ego is necessary to live within the phsyicle domain, its only when we get entrenched in ego identification that it becomes negative. When the ego rains Supreme and not the essence of unification and compassion. When being selfish comes first rather than the other way around.
This is what it means to live in the world but not of the world. If you start living of the world you start to see yourself as separate from nature and everyone else.
This is the divider. Satan.
The divine, or Holy aspect of God is just that, it's "whole" or "one". It's the essence of unification, not division.
But the thing is we need the essence of duality or we would not have our own bodies and we would not be able to tell the difference between me and you. It's like I would be putting my hat on your head because I see everything as one. Duality and ego is necessary to live within the phsyicle domain, its only when we get entrenched in ego identification that it becomes negative. When the ego rains Supreme and not the essence of unification and compassion. When being selfish comes first rather than the other way around.
This is what it means to live in the world but not of the world. If you start living of the world you start to see yourself as separate from nature and everyone else.
This is the divider. Satan.
Sounds pretty new age to me. I think I'll pass on the duality thing. Satan is not the dual opposite of God. He is a created being and he has nothing in Christ, as told by Jesus Himself.
That sounds like dangerously incorrect doctrine. Satan does as he desires and doesn't care what God desires. Where did you get that idea?
There was one time in the book of Job that Satan talked with God and God destroyed Job's children and such. But Job's love for God was unchanged. It was a case of "The good lord giveth and the good lord taketh away".
God kills, wounds, heals and makes alive.
Deuteronomy 32:39 ‘Now see that I, even I, am He, And there is no God besides Me; I kill and I make alive; I wound and I heal; Nor is there any who can deliver from My hand.
Yes that would be blasphemy to associate Satan with God.
You are unaware of the position that states that Satan must ask God's permission before doing anything? A lot of Christians, usually of the calvinist determinist sort, believe this to be the case for humanity today. Yes, Satan does not respect God or care about what God wants. But he is still subject to God's rule over the universe. When God commands Satan to jump, you can bet your bottom dollar jumping is what Satan will do.
Zachariah.
Active Member
Did I say Satan was the duel opposite of God? No I didn't. Read my post correctly instead of just reading what you want to hear. And it's not new age, it's fact. This is what the word Satan litteraly means wether you choose to accept it or not.
In Scripture, the enemy is often called diabolos throughout the New Testament, a Greek word derived from two words: dia, meaning apart, and balien, meaning to throw. To refer to the devil is to quite literally acknowledge him as the one who throws us apart, the one who scatters, the one who divides.
Do you do any research or do you just hear things from people and make stuff up in your own head? Stuff that suits you and agrees with your current belief system?
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Let's put it this way: If God tells haSatan (Hebrew, "The Accuser") that he CAN'T do something, then there's no way in Hell that Beelzebul can do it. God is sovereign over all creation, and that includes over ol' Scratch.
If that weren't so, if the Devil is powerful enough to override God, we're in big, big trouble.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Notice how there is no Scripture referenced in your question?
A lesson from 9th grade American history stuck with me. The teacher explained that although there is plenty to criticize about some laws government passes, they generally don't waste time passing laws prohibiting what people cannot do. For instance, there is no law prohibiting one to flap your arms going to the moon ... So, I think, like all things that exist, God bounds his Creation by their nature. This means Satan can only do what his nature allows and there is no need for God to approve his actions on a case by case basis.
Moreover, I think God imbues certain Angels with certain powers for specific tasks, like wiping out the army of 385,000 men. 2 Kings 19:35. I doubt all Angels have such power at all times and only their discretion prevents the use of such awesome power.
Same with the physical universe. God does not literally command the Earth to rotate each time. Rather, he established the physical laws of the universe at the start and these laws play out. Like the exception with imbuing Angels with power, what we call "supernatural events" is God - or his agents - temporarily interfering with the established laws of the universe.
Hope this helps.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. 1 Peter 5:8
6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them. 7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.” Job 1:6-7
31: "Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift all of you as wheat." Luke 22:31
I suspect God and Satan don't like to be in each other's presence, so Satan probably doesn't show up at God's staff meetings very often. Maybe he phones in a request, or sends an email. More likely you're correct, that the "ruler of this world" has the freedom and authority to roam around and harass us - with limitations.
I don't agree with your definition of Satan. Satan is a creation of God. But he is not an aspect of God. As friend of said, he has no part in Jesus Christ. God is a divider, and it's to separate between the righteous and the wicked, and to determine who is with him or against him. Satan is doing more than being a divider. He wants to steal, kill, and destroy. He is the accuser of mankind who has nothing good for humanity.
The devil is an enemy. God can be an enemy too, if you walk contrary to his statutes. If you don't want to refer to the devil that's your preference. When I refer to the devil it's not to praise him, but to acknowledge the power of God. God will be an enemy to your enemies, and an adversary to your adversaries when you abide in his statutes. You have read or hear that Jesus Christ can give you power over the devil. That's when you abide in him and do God's commandments.
What version/translation of the bible is that?
I use the King James Version. The KJV says adversary instead of enemy on 1 Peter 5:8. In Luke 22:31, Jesus says "Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat" when talking to Peter. On the bolded part in Job, the KJV says From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Just like on the earth, there is a court in heaven. God is the judge and Satan is a lawyer. Jesus can defend you like an attorney does provided you do the things he needs you to do.
Zachariah.
Active Member
You get God and the Father mixed up. YHVH or God, is the totality of all things. That is why it's plural. The Father is different as it is the highest emination of God and a singular.
So when I say Satan is an aspect of God I'm referring to YHVH.
And that's what Satan means. "The divider". It is a reference to the force of duality... ego. We are "whole" in God (Holy). Therefore in the adversary we are divided.
These concepts I present to you are not a matter of opinion or belief, they are fact. They are things I have come to know and understand. A small amount of research in the right direction will lead you to these understandings.
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
Yes, whilst Satan opposes God he is not equally opposite to God who is supreme above all things.
Satan and his angels are not equally opposite to Michael the Archangel and His angels either.
(Rev 12:7) Then a war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.
(Rev 12:8) But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place found in heaven for him and his angels.
(Rev 12:9) And the great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
Of God giving permission for Satan to harass Job, John Wesley in his notes has this to say:
Behold, &c. - It seems strange, that, God should give Satan such a permission as this. But he did it for his own glory, for the honour of Job, for the explanation of providence, and the encouragement of his afflicted people in all ages.
Satan made an accusation about Job , which he does about all God's People, and Job was put to the test to prove Satan wrong, as are all his accusations about those who stand firm in Christ.
(Rev 12:10) And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down— he who accuses them day and night before our God.
(Rev 12:11) They have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony. And they did not love their lives so as to shy away from death.
Christians have authority over Satan. If we resist him he will flee from us.
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
Zachariah.
Active Member
Oh but it is. I just didn't copy and past scripture. It's all there when you read the bible correctly.
Stumpmaster
Well-Known Member
God is uniquely God, there is no one else, no other God.
.
Isaiah 46
8 “Remember this, and [b]show yourselves men;
Recall to mind, O you transgressors.
9 Remember the former things of old,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like Me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,’
11 Calling a bird of prey from the east,
The man who executes My counsel, from a far country.
Indeed I have spoken it;
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it;
I will also do it.
12 “Listen to Me, you stubborn-hearted,
Who are far from righteousness:
13 I bring My righteousness near, it shall not be far off;
My salvation shall not [c]linger.
And I will place salvation in Zion,
For Israel My glory.
.
Isaiah 46
8 “Remember this, and [b]show yourselves men;
Recall to mind, O you transgressors.
9 Remember the former things of old,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like Me,
10 Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,’
11 Calling a bird of prey from the east,
The man who executes My counsel, from a far country.
Indeed I have spoken it;
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it;
I will also do it.
12 “Listen to Me, you stubborn-hearted,
Who are far from righteousness:
13 I bring My righteousness near, it shall not be far off;
My salvation shall not [c]linger.
And I will place salvation in Zion,
For Israel My glory.
God does all things according to the council of His own will for His eternal purposes.
No one has the mind of the Lord to be His councilor.
Be glad that God is a good God, and that He also punishes evil doers and the haughty proud while helping the meek, the poor and needy, the humble.
Satan is a created being God made. Satan cannot do anything unless permitted to by God. But I think that permission Satan must ask of God when Satan desires to hurt his people. Job and Peter for examples. I think regarding this world he has imposed limits placed on him by God too, so Satan can only act within those boundaries. We have these beings called holy angels of God that are constantly helping the people of God and they interfere with Satan's plans; they are restraining Satan.
No one has the mind of the Lord to be His councilor.
Be glad that God is a good God, and that He also punishes evil doers and the haughty proud while helping the meek, the poor and needy, the humble.
Satan is a created being God made. Satan cannot do anything unless permitted to by God. But I think that permission Satan must ask of God when Satan desires to hurt his people. Job and Peter for examples. I think regarding this world he has imposed limits placed on him by God too, so Satan can only act within those boundaries. We have these beings called holy angels of God that are constantly helping the people of God and they interfere with Satan's plans; they are restraining Satan.
A job of God's angels is v14
10 And:
“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”
13 But to which of the angels has He ever said:
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?
10 And:
“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands.
11 They will perish, but You remain;
And they will all grow old like a garment;
12 Like a cloak You will fold them up,
And they will be changed.
But You are the same,
And Your years will not fail.”
13 But to which of the angels has He ever said:
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?
Does Satan really need God's permission before doing (literally) anything and everything?
I wouldn’t use the word “permission”,
BECAUSE this is seemingly an “impression” for Satan to ASK, if he CAN do Evil and REEK Havoc, which is not the case.
but rather:
Satan requires “POWER from God to ACT”.
Satan requires “ALLOWANCE from God to ACT”.
** Angels were created:
With a Heavenly Estate;
With Liberty to Roam outside of their Estate.
With Gods Knowledge of Truth;
With A Great amount of Power from God;
With Freewill.
** BUT NOT WITH the ENTIRETY of Gods UNDERSTANDING.
** Angels exercising their Freewill, AGAINST GOD, became DEVILS, Lost their Estate, Lost their Ability to GAIN Gods UNDERSTANDING, Lost their ability to be WITH God Forever…
** But THEY DID NOT ALL LOSE their POWER, or THEIR ability to freely roam the Earth and Lower Heavens.
** For a most egregious ACT, a FEW Angels Lost their POWER and Roaming Ability, are are presently “chained” “restricted” IN Hell.
** Inasmuch as God SHALL deal Justly with every single individual Human, SO ALSO SHALL there be a FINAL BATTLE between;
Holy Angels and Devil Angels…to whit…
The Holy Angels SHALL maintain Power from God and the Devil Angels SHALL lose their Power from God, and become once and for all defeated and CAST INTO the Earth FOREVER, Living in Eternal Separation from God.
Prophecy:
Rev 12:
[7] And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
[10] And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Glory to God,
Taken
I wouldn’t use the word “permission”,
BECAUSE this is seemingly an “impression” for Satan to ASK, if he CAN do Evil and REEK Havoc, which is not the case.
but rather:
Satan requires “POWER from God to ACT”.
Satan requires “ALLOWANCE from God to ACT”.
** Angels were created:
With a Heavenly Estate;
With Liberty to Roam outside of their Estate.
With Gods Knowledge of Truth;
With A Great amount of Power from God;
With Freewill.
** BUT NOT WITH the ENTIRETY of Gods UNDERSTANDING.
** Angels exercising their Freewill, AGAINST GOD, became DEVILS, Lost their Estate, Lost their Ability to GAIN Gods UNDERSTANDING, Lost their ability to be WITH God Forever…
** But THEY DID NOT ALL LOSE their POWER, or THEIR ability to freely roam the Earth and Lower Heavens.
** For a most egregious ACT, a FEW Angels Lost their POWER and Roaming Ability, are are presently “chained” “restricted” IN Hell.
** Inasmuch as God SHALL deal Justly with every single individual Human, SO ALSO SHALL there be a FINAL BATTLE between;
Holy Angels and Devil Angels…to whit…
The Holy Angels SHALL maintain Power from God and the Devil Angels SHALL lose their Power from God, and become once and for all defeated and CAST INTO the Earth FOREVER, Living in Eternal Separation from God.
Prophecy:
Rev 12:
[7] And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
[8] And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
[9] And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
[10] And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Glory to God,
Taken
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