DOES THIS VERSE CONTRADICT PAUL SAYING A WOMEN CAN'T SPEAK IN THE CHURCH?

[Doug]

[1 Corinthians 11:5 KJV] "But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with [her] head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.".........This passage is difficult, and I don't say I have the ability to explain it. I will only present scripture that I think pertains to this passage and are pertinent for consideration. How can Paul say a women can prophesy in the church if she has to be silent?.......[1 Corinthians 14:34 KJV] "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.".

There were no commandments specifically addressing women's head coverings that I could find. We can find a few verses that verify head coverings were a practice among women........... [Genesis 24:65 KJV] "For she [had] said unto the servant, What man [is] this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant [had] said, It [is] my master: therefore she took a vail, and covered herself."
[Song of Songs 5:7 KJV] "The watchmen that went about the city found me, they smote me, they wounded me; the keepers of the walls took away my veil from me."
[Numbers 5:18 KJV] "And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which [is] the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:"........head coverings were common in the old testament.

I couldn't find any verses that could shed light on this verse....[1 Corinthians 11:6 KJV] "For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.".......This is the only related verse I could find........[Deuteronomy 21:11 KJV] "And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;"
[Deuteronomy 21:12 KJV] "Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;"........were captive women uncovered and had to be shorn?

There were women in the old testament who prophesized, who spoke the word of the Lord........ [2 Kings 22:14 KJV] "So Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam, and Achbor, and Shaphan, and Asahiah, went unto Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college;) and they communed with her."
[2 Kings 22:15 KJV] "And she said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Tell the man that sent you to me,"
[2 Kings 22:16 KJV] "Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, [even] all the words of the book which the king of Judah hath read:"

There was a prophetess during the earthly ministry of Christ amid the twelve apostles......[Luke 2:36 KJV] "And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;"
[Luke 2:37 KJV] "And she [was] a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served [God] with fastings and prayers night and day."

The Corinthian church was a mixture of the little flock believing remnant and the body of Christ. The little flock may be the ones under consideration here. The little flock did not have to abandon the law and were influenced by their traditions. This determination of mine can be supported by this verse.........[1 Corinthians 10:1 KJV] "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;"........Paul was Jewish and identifies himself with the "fathers" which is restricted to the Jews only. He could very well be dealing with Jewish situations including head coverings.

[1 Corinthians 11:16 KJV] "But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.".......I think Paul may have been addressing concerns from the little flock over head coverings, but Paul was saying that in the body of Christ, they had no such customs. Paul never said that he was discussing women prophesying in the church, the body of Christ.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

[1 Corinthians 11:5 KJV] "But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with [her] head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.".........This passage is difficult, and I don't say I have the ability to explain it. I will only present scripture that I think pertains to this passage and are pertinent for consideration. How can Paul say a women can prophesy in the church if she has to be silent?.......[1 Corinthians 14:34 KJV] "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.".

There were no commandments specifically addressing women's head coverings that I could find. We can find a few verses that verify head coverings were a practice among women........... [Genesis 24:65 KJV] "For she [had] said unto the servant, What man [is] this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant [had] said, It [is] my master: therefore she took a vail, and covered herself."
[Song of Songs 5:7 KJV] "The watchmen that went about the city found me, they smote me, they wounded me; the keepers of the walls took away my veil from me."
[Numbers 5:18 KJV] "And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which [is] the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:"........head coverings were common in the old testament.

I couldn't find any verses that could shed light on this verse....[1 Corinthians 11:6 KJV] "For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.".......This is the only related verse I could find........[Deuteronomy 21:11 KJV] "And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;"
[Deuteronomy 21:12 KJV] "Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;"........were captive women uncovered and had to be shorn?

There were women in the old testament who prophesized, who spoke the word of the Lord........ [2 Kings 22:14 KJV] "So Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam, and Achbor, and Shaphan, and Asahiah, went unto Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college;) and they communed with her."
[2 Kings 22:15 KJV] "And she said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Tell the man that sent you to me,"
[2 Kings 22:16 KJV] "Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, [even] all the words of the book which the king of Judah hath read:"

There was a prophetess during the earthly ministry of Christ amid the twelve apostles......[Luke 2:36 KJV] "And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;"
[Luke 2:37 KJV] "And she [was] a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served [God] with fastings and prayers night and day."

The Corinthian church was a mixture of the little flock believing remnant and the body of Christ. The little flock may be the ones under consideration here. The little flock did not have to abandon the law and were influenced by their traditions. This determination of mine can be supported by this verse.........[1 Corinthians 10:1 KJV] "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;"........Paul was Jewish and identifies himself with the "fathers" which is restricted to the Jews only. He could very well be dealing with Jewish situations including head coverings.

[1 Corinthians 11:16 KJV] "But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.".......I think Paul may have been addressing concerns from the little flock over head coverings, but Paul was saying that in the body of Christ, they had no such customs. Paul never said that he was discussing women prophesying in the church, the body of Christ.

Finally, a humble man of good sense!

Women in those days were not allowed to study Torah; only men. Most women didn't even know how to read which went on for hundreds of years! And in the synagogue like the Amish, women sat in the back or on one side together, and the men all sat together apart from the women. Paul was instructing women to not call out to their husbands to explain things to them, but to wait until they went home.

In 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 it has been thought that these verses were added to the original at some later date. And if read without these verses we find that the flow of the context about prophecy is more understandable without this interruption of thought as you can see:

29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, ('all' would include women prophetesses) that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. 36 Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached? 37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.

By adding those two verses about women being silent in the church, it makes it seem that women prophetesses could not reveal those prophecies, as if men were more important than what the Spirit reveals! And in 1 Timothy 2 we find that it is Paul, not the Lord, who does not permit a women to speak.

11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

Now it is Paul's opinion he shares in a personal letter to Timothy. Paul tells us when it is his opinion and when the Lord is speaking through him, as in 1 Corinthians 7.

6 But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment.
8 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows
10 Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord

 

[ScottA]

[1 Corinthians 11:5 KJV] "But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with [her] head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.".........This passage is difficult, and I don't say I have the ability to explain it. I will only present scripture that I think pertains to this passage and are pertinent for consideration. How can Paul say a women can prophesy in the church if she has to be silent?.......[1 Corinthians 14:34 KJV] "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.".

There were no commandments specifically addressing women's head coverings that I could find. We can find a few verses that verify head coverings were a practice among women........... [Genesis 24:65 KJV] "For she [had] said unto the servant, What man [is] this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant [had] said, It [is] my master: therefore she took a vail, and covered herself."
[Song of Songs 5:7 KJV] "The watchmen that went about the city found me, they smote me, they wounded me; the keepers of the walls took away my veil from me."
[Numbers 5:18 KJV] "And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which [is] the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:"........head coverings were common in the old testament.

I couldn't find any verses that could shed light on this verse....[1 Corinthians 11:6 KJV] "For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.".......This is the only related verse I could find........[Deuteronomy 21:11 KJV] "And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;"
[Deuteronomy 21:12 KJV] "Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;"........were captive women uncovered and had to be shorn?

There were women in the old testament who prophesized, who spoke the word of the Lord........ [2 Kings 22:14 KJV] "So Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam, and Achbor, and Shaphan, and Asahiah, went unto Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college;) and they communed with her."
[2 Kings 22:15 KJV] "And she said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Tell the man that sent you to me,"
[2 Kings 22:16 KJV] "Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, [even] all the words of the book which the king of Judah hath read:"

There was a prophetess during the earthly ministry of Christ amid the twelve apostles......[Luke 2:36 KJV] "And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;"
[Luke 2:37 KJV] "And she [was] a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served [God] with fastings and prayers night and day."

The Corinthian church was a mixture of the little flock believing remnant and the body of Christ. The little flock may be the ones under consideration here. The little flock did not have to abandon the law and were influenced by their traditions. This determination of mine can be supported by this verse.........[1 Corinthians 10:1 KJV] "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;"........Paul was Jewish and identifies himself with the "fathers" which is restricted to the Jews only. He could very well be dealing with Jewish situations including head coverings.

[1 Corinthians 11:16 KJV] "But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.".......I think Paul may have been addressing concerns from the little flock over head coverings, but Paul was saying that in the body of Christ, they had no such customs. Paul never said that he was discussing women prophesying in the church, the body of Christ.

"But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved."​

In 1 Corinthians 11:5 Paul simply taught in the form of a parable. In chapter 10 he first spoke of Old Testament practices appealing "as to wise men" of practical and reasonable matters. Insisting then that the "wise" also be wise in spirit, able to hear, comparing fleshly things with fleshly things--not to appeal to their flesh--but that they might see the futility of things on that level and be draw by the Spirit to understand the "greater things" promised by Christ. Which many still do not see past.

That was Paul's mission--not just to move on to the Gentiles--but to "press on" even "leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits" (Hebrews 6:1-3). But who can even imagine such a leap--leaving behind the principles of Christ as "elementary?"

But who, even now, will hear and understand--let alone take such a leap?

The meaning of Paul's parable, is that the "Head" is Christ and the "woman" is the "Bride" (men and women alike), who without Christ ought not to prophecy or even expect their prayers to be heard, for having prophesied without His covering.

 

[Doug]

Finally, a humble man of good sense!

Women in those days were not allowed to study Torah; only men. Most women didn't even know how to read which went on for hundreds of years! And in the synagogue like the Amish, women sat in the back or on one side together, and the men all sat together apart from the women. Paul was instructing women to not call out to their husbands to explain things to them, but to wait until they went home.

In 1 Corinthians 14:34-35 it has been thought that these verses were added to the original at some later date. And if read without these verses we find that the flow of the context about prophecy is more understandable without this interruption of thought as you can see:

29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, ('all' would include women prophetesses) that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. 36 Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached? 37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord.

By adding those two verses about women being silent in the church, it makes it seem that women prophetesses could not reveal those prophecies, as if men were more important than what the Spirit reveals! And in 1 Timothy 2 we find that it is Paul, not the Lord, who does not permit a women to speak.

11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve.

Now it is Paul's opinion he shares in a personal letter to Timothy. Paul tells us when it is his opinion and when the Lord is speaking through him, as in 1 Corinthians 7.

6 But I say this as a concession, not as a commandment.
8 But I say to the unmarried and to the widows
10 Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord

[1 Timothy 2:12 KJV] "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
Paul isnt speaking his opinion here. He is communicating what Christ conveyed to him but he isnt saying its a command

Translations omit more then these verses

 

[1stCenturyLady]

.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

[1 Timothy 2:12 KJV] "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
Paul isnt speaking his opinion here. He is communicating what Christ conveyed to him but he isnt saying its a command

I've been told this view before (many times on the forums). And I did ask God why in 2000 did He speak to me and say, "I'm giving you the office of Teacher" and the anointing if what Paul said to Timothy was true. He answered me.

Translations omit more then these verses

Explain.

 

[Doug]

I've been told this view before (many times on the forums). And I did ask God why in 2000 did He speak to me and say, "I'm giving you the office of Teacher" and the anointing if what Paul said to Timothy was true. He answered me.

Explain.

The King James Bible vs. Modern Translations: What’s Missing? - King James Bible College

The King James Bible vs. Modern Translations: What’s Missing? The debate over Bible translations is not new, but in recent years, many have begun to notice significant omissions and changes in modern versions such as the NIV, ESV, NLT, and NASB. Compared to the King James Version (KJV), these...

kingjamesbiblecollege.org

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The King James Bible vs. Modern Translations: What’s Missing? - King James Bible College

The King James Bible vs. Modern Translations: What’s Missing? The debate over Bible translations is not new, but in recent years, many have begun to notice significant omissions and changes in modern versions such as the NIV, ESV, NLT, and NASB. Compared to the King James Version (KJV), these...

kingjamesbiblecollege.org

.

Thanks

 

[Doug]

Thanks

You are Welcome
There are also variations in verse not just omissions
I am not schooled to discuss this at length but not all translations use the same manuscripts and some have been corrupted

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You are Welcome
There are also variations in verse not just omissions
I am not schooled to discuss this at length but not all translations use the same manuscripts and some have been corrupted

I think I heard that all modern translations use the Westcott and Hort translation of the corrupted codices from Alexandria who didn't believe in all truth about Jesus and His deity. Westcott and Hort were not only believers in Darwin's evolution theory but were also spiritualists - that's contacting demons!!

 

[Doug]

I think I heard that all modern translations use the Westcott and Hort translation of the corrupted codices from Alexandria who didn't believe in all truth about Jesus and His deity. Westcott and Hort were not only believers in Darwin's evolution theory but were also spiritualists - that's contacting demons!!

Yes you are totally right. That's what I have read.
Let me just show 2 verses

[Matthew 5:22 KJV] "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire."......note without a cause
[Matthew 5:22 NIV] "But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, 'Raca,' is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell."...........note without a cause is missing. Jesus got angry in Matthew 21:12 so that makes him violate the Word of God

[John 7:8 KJV] "Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come."........note I go not YET
[John 7:8 NIV] "You go to the festival. I am not going up to this festival, because my time has not yet fully come.""..........NOT YET is missing. Jesus did go to the feast so the new versions make him a liar by saying he wouldn't eventually go to it

 

[Kayla McCanny]

[1 Corinthians 11:5 KJV] "But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with [her] head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.".........This passage is difficult, and I don't say I have the ability to explain it. I will only present scripture that I think pertains to this passage and are pertinent for consideration. How can Paul say a women can prophesy in the church if she has to be silent?.......[1 Corinthians 14:34 KJV] "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.".

There were no commandments specifically addressing women's head coverings that I could find. We can find a few verses that verify head coverings were a practice among women........... [Genesis 24:65 KJV] "For she [had] said unto the servant, What man [is] this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant [had] said, It [is] my master: therefore she took a vail, and covered herself."
[Song of Songs 5:7 KJV] "The watchmen that went about the city found me, they smote me, they wounded me; the keepers of the walls took away my veil from me."
[Numbers 5:18 KJV] "And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which [is] the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:"........head coverings were common in the old testament.

I couldn't find any verses that could shed light on this verse....[1 Corinthians 11:6 KJV] "For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.".......This is the only related verse I could find........[Deuteronomy 21:11 KJV] "And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;"
[Deuteronomy 21:12 KJV] "Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;"........were captive women uncovered and had to be shorn?

There were women in the old testament who prophesized, who spoke the word of the Lord........ [2 Kings 22:14 KJV] "So Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam, and Achbor, and Shaphan, and Asahiah, went unto Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college;) and they communed with her."
[2 Kings 22:15 KJV] "And she said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Tell the man that sent you to me,"
[2 Kings 22:16 KJV] "Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, [even] all the words of the book which the king of Judah hath read:"

There was a prophetess during the earthly ministry of Christ amid the twelve apostles......[Luke 2:36 KJV] "And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;"
[Luke 2:37 KJV] "And she [was] a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served [God] with fastings and prayers night and day."

The Corinthian church was a mixture of the little flock believing remnant and the body of Christ. The little flock may be the ones under consideration here. The little flock did not have to abandon the law and were influenced by their traditions. This determination of mine can be supported by this verse.........[1 Corinthians 10:1 KJV] "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;"........Paul was Jewish and identifies himself with the "fathers" which is restricted to the Jews only. He could very well be dealing with Jewish situations including head coverings.

[1 Corinthians 11:16 KJV] "But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.".......I think Paul may have been addressing concerns from the little flock over head coverings, but Paul was saying that in the body of Christ, they had no such customs. Paul never said that he was discussing women prophesying in the church, the body of Christ.

 

[Kayla McCanny]

The women in the church were worshiping artemas Dianna in ephesis. In Greek it is stated violent women. The godly men were interrupting. The women wanted control (autheneo). Everyone just shut up women shut up. You have no right to speak over us. They were true men of God. Furthermore when it addresses ministry a woman can minister and be on ministry, but she can not be head pastor. She can co-pastor with her husband. God is the head , therefore a man of God is the head. There are around 27 women in the bible who were ministers. And Debrah being one of them was a good judge and prophetess who the holy spirit through her prepared men for war. Women can judge men to see if they have right standing. Now about husband and wife...

 

[Kayla McCanny]

KERYSSO ( Greek) for evangelize. In the bible it says a woman is called, ezer kenegdo in hebrew. This word doesn't mean secondary. It means equal. It means help. The word used describes resue, saving. In psalms God refers to himself as rescuer. It means strong whn others are weak . Gen 2:18. Kenegdo in hebrew means opposite of him, face to face. Equal.She is more than a helper. She is someone who holds accountable. It means strong when other is weak. He I to loves his wife as christ loves his church. A woman does not have to submit to a false Christian who over steps her boundaries. She does not have to submit to abuse. She is made in God's image. She also shall submit to her husband. He kind of is her rescuer too. Strong when other s weak. Then the bible goes on to talk about mutual submissions where the equals two become one and so on.how a wife should lovingly submit to her husband and how a man does the same for her and submits to her.

 

[Kayla McCanny]

KERYSSO ( Greek) for evangelize. In the bible it says a woman is called, ezer kenegdo in hebrew. This word doesn't mean secondary. It means equal. It means help. The word used describes resue, saving. In psalms God refers to himself as rescuer. It means strong whn others are weak . Gen 2:18. Kenegdo in hebrew means opposite of him, face to face. Equal.She is more than a helper. She is someone who holds accountable. It means strong when other is weak. He I to loves his wife as christ loves his church. A woman does not have to submit to a false Christian who over steps her boundaries. She does not have to submit to abuse. She is made in God's image. She also shall submit to her husband. He kind of is her rescuer too. Strong when other s weak. Then the bible goes on to talk about mutual submissions where the equals two become one and so on.how a wife should lovingly submit to her husband and how a man does the same for her and submits to her.

They were life savors like Abigal. She kept David from slaughtering Nabal and all the people. God honored women and those who were treated poorly.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

[1 Corinthians 11:5 KJV] "But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with [her] head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.".........This passage is difficult, and I don't say I have the ability to explain it. I will only present scripture that I think pertains to this passage and are pertinent for consideration. How can Paul say a women can prophesy in the church if she has to be silent?.......[1 Corinthians 14:34 KJV] "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.".

There were no commandments specifically addressing women's head coverings that I could find. We can find a few verses that verify head coverings were a practice among women........... [Genesis 24:65 KJV] "For she [had] said unto the servant, What man [is] this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant [had] said, It [is] my master: therefore she took a vail, and covered herself."
[Song of Songs 5:7 KJV] "The watchmen that went about the city found me, they smote me, they wounded me; the keepers of the walls took away my veil from me."
[Numbers 5:18 KJV] "And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which [is] the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:"........head coverings were common in the old testament.

I couldn't find any verses that could shed light on this verse....[1 Corinthians 11:6 KJV] "For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.".......This is the only related verse I could find........[Deuteronomy 21:11 KJV] "And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;"
[Deuteronomy 21:12 KJV] "Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;"........were captive women uncovered and had to be shorn?

There were women in the old testament who prophesized, who spoke the word of the Lord........ [2 Kings 22:14 KJV] "So Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam, and Achbor, and Shaphan, and Asahiah, went unto Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college;) and they communed with her."
[2 Kings 22:15 KJV] "And she said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Tell the man that sent you to me,"
[2 Kings 22:16 KJV] "Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, [even] all the words of the book which the king of Judah hath read:"

There was a prophetess during the earthly ministry of Christ amid the twelve apostles......[Luke 2:36 KJV] "And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;"
[Luke 2:37 KJV] "And she [was] a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served [God] with fastings and prayers night and day."

The Corinthian church was a mixture of the little flock believing remnant and the body of Christ. The little flock may be the ones under consideration here. The little flock did not have to abandon the law and were influenced by their traditions. This determination of mine can be supported by this verse.........[1 Corinthians 10:1 KJV] "Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;"........Paul was Jewish and identifies himself with the "fathers" which is restricted to the Jews only. He could very well be dealing with Jewish situations including head coverings.

[1 Corinthians 11:16 KJV] "But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.".......I think Paul may have been addressing concerns from the little flock over head coverings, but Paul was saying that in the body of Christ, they had no such customs. Paul never said that he was discussing women prophesying in the church, the body of Christ.

Wow you start with that false premise of two separate churches and then compound your error. Paul was not saying woman could not say anything at all in churches but they were not allowed to teach or preach (add tot he biblical conversation publicly). If you looked at the language closer you would know that.

 

[Doug]

Paul was not saying woman could not say anything at all in churches but they were not allowed to teach or preach (

They can have a ministry in the church as I have said elsewhere

[Titus 2:4 KJV] "That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,"

[Philippians 4:3 KJV] "And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and [with] other my fellowlabourers, whose names [are] in the book of life."

Women can teach young women and labour in the gospel

 

[complete]

'But I suffer not a woman to teach,
nor to usurp authority over the man,
but to be in silence.
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
And Adam was not deceived,
but the woman being deceived
was in the transgression.'
(1Tim. 2:12-14)

Hello there,

This is clear and plain, and the reason is given: and reading the account of the fall you can understand why.

'But I fear, lest by any means,
as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty,
so your minds should be corrupted
from the simplicity that is in Christ.'
(2Cor 11:3)

In 1John 2:16 we are told, that, ' ... all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.' and we see all of those things portrayed in Eve's responses in one form or another:-

'Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field
which the LORD God had made.
And he said unto the woman,
Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
And the woman said unto the serpent,
We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden,
God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,
then your eyes shall be opened,
and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food,
and that it was pleasant to the eyes,
and a tree to be desired to make one wise,
she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat,
and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. '
(Gen. 3:1-6)

'But I would have you know,
that the head of every man is Christ;
and the head of the woman is the man;
and the head of Christ is God.'
(1Co 11:3)

This too is an important principle worth remembering. If Eve had referred the serpent to Adam, he would have been her covering. He who had heard God's instruction concerning the eating of the tree could have quoted God correctly, and so submitting himself to God resisted the devil and he would have fled from him. Eve misquoted and exaggerated and therefore failed to use the word of God correctly. The lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life, all contributed to Eve and Adam's downfall. This is a good enough example for me to see why a woman should not teach.

With Priscilla and Aquilla, they were man and wife and worked as a team, so that he would be her head, as the risen Christ was his. The woman is a helpmeet for the man.

Just thoughts.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Doug]

Paul was not saying woman could not say anything at all in churches but they were not allowed to teach or preach

Right they werent to usurp the authority over Men. God set order and roles for the church

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Right they werent to usurp the authority over Men. God set order and roles for the church

and @Roland Nolette

Did you know that women cannot divorce men, but men can divorce women if she is unfaithful? A woman, no matter what, cannot marry another until her husband is dead.

I thought you two being men would enjoy this law.