Elijah and JTB

[Nancy]

Why would Jesus call JTB "Elijah when JTB said to the Pharisees when questioned that he was NOT Elijah? Perhaps he didn't know his true identity at that time?

"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes. And he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the land with a decree of utter destruction." (Mal 4:5-6)

Does JTB maybe have a duel purpose, just different times? Does anyone here think that Elijah will be one of the two witnesses in Jerusalem?

Thoughts?

 

[Heart2Soul]

I believe Elijah is one of the witnesses
,

 

[DuckieLady]

Why would Jesus call JTB "Elijah when JTB said to the Pharisees when questioned that he was NOT Elijah? Perhaps he didn't know his true identity at that time?

"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes. And he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the land with a decree of utter destruction." (Mal 4:5-6)

Does JTB maybe have a duel purpose, just different times? Does anyone here think that Elijah will be one of the two witnesses in Jerusalem?

Thoughts?

I think Enoch and Elijah are the two witnesses because they left this world without death.


Matthew 17:11-13

11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.


My guess is Jesus knew what he was talking about, but perhaps John the Baptist was made unaware. Jesus was not recognized for who he was, and neither was John the Baptist. And given John the Baptist being a man in strange clothes and strange food, he was clothed in humility.

Interestingly, Matthew 17 is also the chapter where Jesus meets Moses and Elijah.

 

[Cassandra]

I think Enoch and Elijah are the two witnesses because they left this world without death.


Matthew 17:11-13

11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.


My guess is Jesus knew what he was talking about, but perhaps John the Baptist was made unaware. Jesus was not recognized for who he was, and neither was John the Baptist. And given John the Baptist being a man in strange clothes and strange food, he was clothed in humility.

Interestingly, Matthew 17 is also the chapter where Jesus meets Moses and Elijah.

If the two witness are men then one cannot be Elijah, because it says they will lay dead. Elijah was translated.

I think the two witnesses are the Old and New Testament, which testify of Him.
“Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.” (John 5:39.)

 

[Nancy]

I think Enoch and Elijah are the two witnesses because they left this world without death.


Matthew 17:11-13

11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him everything they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that he was talking to them about John the Baptist.


My guess is Jesus knew what he was talking about, but perhaps John the Baptist was made unaware. Jesus was not recognized for who he was, and neither was John the Baptist. And given John the Baptist being a man in strange clothes and strange food, he was clothed in humility.

Interestingly, Matthew 17 is also the chapter where Jesus meets Moses and Elijah.

Yes, agreed. Elijah is mentioned 30 some times in the NT. This is worth a good study. Funny how JTB did not know...maybe to keep his humility in check? Nah, he was very humble on his own.
thanks for the reply!
xo

 

[DuckieLady]

If the two witness are men then one cannot be Elijah, because it says they will lay dead. Elijah was translated.

I think the two witnesses are the Old and New Testament, which testify of Him.
“Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.” (John 5:39.)

I think you're right. This is one I have a hard time figuring out for that reason.

I held onto the Enoch and Elijah thing for a long time, but maybe it is time to look around more.

Melchizedek is mentioned and used as an in Hebrews but in other ancient Jewish texts, I believe he was born without a father, but I can't remember how he died.

That was the only reason I picked those two.

Would be interesting to look at.

But to be honest, I don't ever expect myself to understand Revelation. Lol I don't put the pressure on myself to.

 

[NayborBear]

It may be easier to understand if we keep the "spirit of Elijah?" Just that. The "spirit" of Elijah. Which doesn't necessarily mandate, or dictate that his spirit be upon only 1 person. Or? Even 1 person at a time. But God, who can do ANY thing according to His will and good pleasure? Can very much indeed cause the "spirit of Elijah" to be spread all over this 3rd rock from the sun, to rest upon and draw all persons unto their "fathers." Now unto which "father?" Father God? Or the father of lies? Depends upon each person's walk in/of the world? Or, in the "faith."

I do believe that this is precisely what is happening even as we speak.

Matthew 24:
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

At no time in HIStory has these SAME kinds and types of "goings on" as in the days of Sodom and Ghemorra, yea even in the days of Noah on such a global scale as is stated in verse 21.

This should help one understand that which God can do with "the spirit of Elijah."

 

[Heart2Soul]

If the two witness are men then one cannot be Elijah, because it says they will lay dead. Elijah was translated.

I think the two witnesses are the Old and New Testament, which testify of Him.
“Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.” (John 5:39.)

Interesting....however Revelation gets very specific about them...read all of this if you can...
Revelation 11 (KJV)
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³ And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
⁴ These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
⁵ And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
⁶ These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
⁷ And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
⁸ And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
⁹ And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
¹⁰ And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
¹¹ And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
¹² And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
¹³ And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
¹⁴ The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I find it interesting how the Bible references topics of 2. .
The animals entered the ark 2 by 2
Jesus sent His disciples out 2 by 2
The 2 spies that came back with a good report
Two tables of stone
This link list 45 occasions of 2s
45 Bible verses about Two

 

[Enoch111]

Why would Jesus call JTB "Elijah when JTB said to the Pharisees when questioned that he was NOT Elijah?

John the Baptist was not an incarnation of Elijah, but came "in the spirit and power of Elijah". This was prophesied to his father Zacharias by the angel (presumably) Gabriel.

And he [John] shall go before him [Christ] in the spirit and power of Elias [Elijah], to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord. (Luke 1:17)

The original Elijah appeared with Moses at the transfiguration of Christ, and will appear again on earth with Moses during the Tribulation, in order to fulfil the prophesy in Malachi.

 

[Ancient]

Why would Jesus call JTB "Elijah when JTB said to the Pharisees when questioned that he was NOT Elijah? Perhaps he didn't know his true identity at that time?

"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes. And he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the land with a decree of utter destruction." (Mal 4:5-6)

Does JTB maybe have a duel purpose, just different times? Does anyone here think that Elijah will be one of the two witnesses in Jerusalem?

Thoughts?

Maybe check this out although context is end times.

Shalom

 

[quietthinker]

Why would Jesus call JTB "Elijah when JTB said to the Pharisees when questioned that he was NOT Elijah? Perhaps he didn't know his true identity at that time?

"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes. And he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the land with a decree of utter destruction." (Mal 4:5-6)

Does JTB maybe have a duel purpose, just different times? Does anyone here think that Elijah will be one of the two witnesses in Jerusalem?

Thoughts?

If we can't identify what the witness is how will we ever identify the witnesses?

 

[farouk]

I believe Elijah is one of the witnesses
,

Interesting how at the Transfiguration the Lord Jesus was seen with Moses and Elijah: Romans 3 speaks of the righteous of God without the law being witnessed by the law and the prophets: the parts of the Old Testament sometimes personified by Moses and Elijah.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Interesting how at the Transfiguration the Lord Jesus was seen with Moses and Elijah: Romans 3 speaks of the righteous of God without the law being witnessed by the law and the prophets: the parts of the Old Testament sometimes personified by Moses and Elijah.

The OT speaks of the two candlesticks and the two olive trees...saying they are the two prophets that stand before God everyday...and it just seems to make sense that Moses and Elijah are the 2 witnesses because they have been witnessing everything since they were taken to Heaven.

 

[farouk]

The OT speaks of the two candlesticks and the two olive trees...saying they are the two prophets that stand before God everyday...and it just seems to make sense that Moses and Elijah are the 2 witnesses because they have been witnessing everything since they were taken to Heaven.

Very interesting study there.....we were discussing the olive in Scripture yesterday at our local church...

 

[Heart2Soul]

It may be easier to understand if we keep the "spirit of Elijah?" Just that. The "spirit" of Elijah.

Well said....in Revelation Jesus mentions Jezebel operating in the church...obviously it isn't the Jezebel of the OT, it is a spirit of Jezebel who is producing the same sins as the Jezebel in the OT...
Revelation 2 (KJV)
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²⁰ Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
²¹ And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
²² Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
²³ And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

 

[farouk]

Well said....in Revelation Jesus mentions Jezebel operating in the church...obviously it isn't the Jezebel of the OT, it is a spirit of Jezebel who is producing the same sins as the Jezebel in the OT...
Revelation 2 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
²⁰ Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
²¹ And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
²² Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
²³ And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

@Heart2Soul I heard ministry from Isaiah a while ago about God's servants being sanctified vessels; the opposite of what sadly happened in the verses you quoted...

 

[Mosheli]

Why would Jesus call JTB "Elijah when JTB said to the Pharisees when questioned that he was NOT Elijah? Perhaps he didn't know his true identity at that time?

"Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes. And he will turn the hearts of fathers to their children and the hearts of children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the land with a decree of utter destruction." (Mal 4:5-6)

Does JTB maybe have a duel purpose, just different times? Does anyone here think that Elijah will be one of the two witnesses in Jerusalem?

Thoughts?

There are 2 possibile explanations:

1. It could be that the "Elijah" verse has two different layers of meaning and that there will also be an Elijah before the second coming. (Elijah vs Jezebel in OT could also match that "Babylon"/"Jezebel" is still around at time of 2 Witnesses?) This would make 3 Elijahs (OT one, JTB, 1 of the two witnesses.)

Or 2. It could be that Elijah is just figurative as a similar type of person (or "spirit of Elijah"). John was right that he was not the previous Elijah of bc times. John is supposed to have worn John's mantle or girdle or something. Possibly this is abit like names like Caesar and Pharaoh, and the person bearing the name/title or "spirit" or mantle is identified as like being One with (or like a reincarnation of) the original first bearer of the name? Elijah prophesied to come before messiah is like John being forerunner of Jesus. (And Malachi is last book of OT just before gospels.)
Elijah before Elisha is also a type of John before Yeshua/Jesus (Elisha & Yeshua similar meanings), as is Moses before Joshua.
Though Elijah and Moses also have parallels with Jesus. Elijah also means El "god" = Yah, which might better match the son of god than John?
This could mean that there might only be 2 not 3 Elijahs (the OT one, & JTB, but not one in end times).

Either way John both was "Elijah" (2nd) but wasn't Elijah (1st) or Elijah/"Elijah" (3rd?) They are both true, there is no contradiction.

* Moses and Elijah are often thought to be the 2 Witnesses because the first's body was not found, and the 2nd didn't die but was raptured; and the types of signs the 2 witnesses perform are like those Moses and Elijah uniquely did; and the two appeared in the transfiguration; and Elijah is prophesied to come before the messiah. Plus possibly Moses & Elijah might be type of Jew/Law and Christian/Jesus, or of Law and Prophets (respectively)?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If we can't identify what the witness is how will we ever identify the witnesses?

When they get here.

Prophecy is like that.

 

[quietthinker]

When they get here.

Prophecy is like that.

that must be like arriving at your destination taking any road