Endure to the end?

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Jim C

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Well there is much debate about the eternal security of the tribulation saints based on teh fact they can yield and take the mark. But this is just an end times caution.
Revelation is clear on the topic. ALL who receive the mark of the beast are dead men walking.

Revelation 14:9-11
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
 

David in NJ

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Revelation is clear on the topic. ALL who receive the mark of the beast are dead men walking.

Revelation 14:9-11
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Everyone is of the group = "Dead men walking" - until they are Born Again by the Spirit of God

Ephesians ch2
And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.

4But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

The ETERNAL DIFFERENCE in Revelation and receiving the MARK of the Beast is that they cane NEVER be Saved = NEVER
 

Ronald Nolette

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Revelation is clear on the topic. ALL who receive the mark of the beast are dead men walking.

Revelation 14:9-11
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Correct. that is why their is much debate over this.

One side say the saved will not take the mark, while the other say they can take the mark. The church is long gone and the trib saints are faced with this.

Whether or not they will take the mark is way beyond our pay grade. I personally believe (opinion) is that they may be able to take the mark. I know eternal security is the norm of Scripture for teh church, but as the church is gone pre trib when the rapture happens, the trib saints may or may not have eternal security.
 

David in NJ

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Correct. that is why their is much debate over this.

One side say the saved will not take the mark, while the other say they can take the mark. The church is long gone and the trib saints are faced with this.

Whether or not they will take the mark is way beyond our pay grade. I personally believe (opinion) is that they may be able to take the mark. I know eternal security is the norm of Scripture for teh church, but as the church is gone pre trib when the rapture happens, the trib saints may or may not have eternal security.
"The church is long gone" - there is not a single scripture that states this
"the trib saints" - is a man made conjecture to support a false doctrine

ALL 7 churches are spoken to from Rev ch1 to Rev ch22 = true doctrine is God's TRUTH
Revelation/JESUS says = "to him who overcomes" is what "the Spirit says to the churches"
Revelation /JESUS says = “Behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of prophecy in this book.”
Revelation/JESUS says = I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright Morning Star.”

Follow the TRUTH of God's word and reject the fables of men.

"For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear."

HOLY SPIRIT RESOLUTION - simple FIX Brother = find the scripture where the LORD said He will come BEFORE the Antichrist and the Resurrection to rapture His Church
 

Ronald Nolette

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"The church is long gone" - there is not a single scripture that states this
"the trib saints" - is a man made conjecture to support a false doctrine

ALL 7 churches are spoken to from Rev ch1 to Rev ch22 = true doctrine is God's TRUTH
Revelation/JESUS says = "to him who overcomes" is what "the Spirit says to the churches"
Revelation /JESUS says = “Behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of prophecy in this book.”
Revelation/JESUS says = I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright Morning Star.”

Follow the TRUTH of God's word and reject the fables of men.

"For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear."

HOLY SPIRIT RESOLUTION - simple FIX Brother = find the scripture where the LORD said He will come BEFORE the Antichrist and the Resurrection to rapture His Church
So you believe Jesus either returns after the tribulation or after the millenial kingdom.

Revelation 20

King James Version

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

And because you said the rapture will not occur until the resurrection is complete- you are a post millenial rapture believer.

You are to hung up on terms created to describe events or people. We have terms like OT saints to differentiate from church saints.

I am so glad you are not the one on the throne judging the church. You are a severe and harshtaskmaster.

You imply that those who believe in a pretrib rapture have left the faith to follow unsound doctrine.

Time will tell, and time will give the Lord time to soften your hard heart towards your fellow brothers and sisters.
 

Ronald Nolette

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"The church is long gone" - there is not a single scripture that states this
"the trib saints" - is a man made conjecture to support a false doctrine

ALL 7 churches are spoken to from Rev ch1 to Rev ch22 = true doctrine is God's TRUTH
Revelation/JESUS says = "to him who overcomes" is what "the Spirit says to the churches"
Revelation /JESUS says = “Behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of prophecy in this book.”
Revelation/JESUS says = I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright Morning Star.”

Follow the TRUTH of God's word and reject the fables of men.

"For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear."

HOLY SPIRIT RESOLUTION - simple FIX Brother = find the scripture where the LORD said He will come BEFORE the Antichrist and the Resurrection to rapture His Church
You need to learn hermeneutics and exegesis and context.

The tribulation has two purposes:

To punish evildoers, and to purge out of Israel the rebels so the nation wil lrecieve Jesus as Messiah.

God promised the church of Philadelphia they would be spared the tribulation to come. So according to your way of understanding Scripture and your declarations- God contradicted Himself!

7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

It is the tribulation or the 70th week of Daniel that is the temptation the bible says will come upon all the world.

So using your myopic method of hermeneutics, God lied and 1/7th of the church is spared the tribulation.

WOW!
 

David in NJ

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So you believe Jesus either returns after the tribulation or after the millenial kingdom.

Revelation 20​

King James Version​

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

And because you said the rapture will not occur until the resurrection is complete- you are a post millenial rapture believer.

You are to hung up on terms created to describe events or people. We have terms like OT saints to differentiate from church saints.

I am so glad you are not the one on the throne judging the church. You are a severe and harshtaskmaster.

You imply that those who believe in a pretrib rapture have left the faith to follow unsound doctrine.

Time will tell, and time will give the Lord time to soften your hard heart towards your fellow brothers and sisters.
Thank you for posting Rev ch20

i am not sure if this was ever shared with you that Revelation is a repeating story that moves forward by revealings of Truth from various viewpoints that the LORD chose for us to SEE.

What am i saying?
Look at Rev ch6 - Here is a complete story/revealing that culminates with His Second Coming BUT it is not the end of His Prophecy. The LORD will show again His Second Coming at least two more times in His Revelation.

Here, from Revelation the LORD reveals 3 times His Second Coming

Chapter 6 - I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. 13And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Chapter 11
Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The [f]kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” 16And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17saying:

“We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty,
The One who is and who was and who is to come,
Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.
18The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”

Chapter 19
Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He [e]had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”

19And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
 

David in NJ

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You need to learn hermeneutics and exegesis and context.

The tribulation has two purposes:

To punish evildoers, and to purge out of Israel the rebels so the nation wil lrecieve Jesus as Messiah.

God promised the church of Philadelphia they would be spared the tribulation to come. So according to your way of understanding Scripture and your declarations- God contradicted Himself!

7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

It is the tribulation or the 70th week of Daniel that is the temptation the bible says will come upon all the world.

So using your myopic method of hermeneutics, God lied and 1/7th of the church is spared the tribulation.

WOW!
Thank you for your Post and sharing your viewpoint (and i liked WOW at the end).

i will respond to this from Scripture without adding or taking away from Scripture which all have done when promoting pre-trib rapture or similar.

PLEASE review Post 27 - thank you Brother
 

David in NJ

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You need to learn hermeneutics and exegesis and context.

The tribulation has two purposes:

To punish evildoers, and to purge out of Israel the rebels so the nation wil lrecieve Jesus as Messiah.

God promised the church of Philadelphia they would be spared the tribulation to come. So according to your way of understanding Scripture and your declarations- God contradicted Himself!

7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

It is the tribulation or the 70th week of Daniel that is the temptation the bible says will come upon all the world.

So using your myopic method of hermeneutics, God lied and 1/7th of the church is spared the tribulation.

WOW!
You left out crucial words of the LORD pertaining to the Philadelphia church.

Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ = ALL 7 churches

These words of Life from the LORD sternly rebuke any claim of a pre-trib rapture.

To be "KEPT" by the LORD does not mean rapture = SEE John ch17

May the Peace of our LORD Jesus Christ guard your heart and mind against false teachings.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Thank you for posting Rev ch20

i am not sure if this was ever shared with you that Revelation is a repeating story that moves forward by revealings of Truth from various viewpoints that the LORD chose for us to SEE.

What am i saying?
Look at Rev ch6 - Here is a complete story/revealing that culminates with His Second Coming BUT it is not the end of His Prophecy. The LORD will show again His Second Coming at least two more times in His Revelation.

Here, from Revelation the LORD reveals 3 times His Second Coming

Chapter 6 - I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became like blood. 13And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Chapter 11
Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The [f]kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” 16And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17saying:

“We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty,
The One who is and who was and who is to come,
Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.
18The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”

Chapter 19
Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He [e]had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God, 18that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”

19And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
So you believe the seals, trumpets and bowls are all telling the 70th week of daniel?
 

Ronald Nolette

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Thank you for your Post and sharing your viewpoint (and i liked WOW at the end).

i will respond to this from Scripture without adding or taking away from Scripture which all have done when promoting pre-trib rapture or similar.

PLEASE review Post 27 - thank you Brother
Well thank you for your ad-hominem by saying anyone who believes in the pre trib rapture has added to or taken away from Scripture. so you imply that all who believe in a pre trib rapture have had their names taken out of the book of life then.

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

You should not engage with any pre trib believer as we have lost our salvation and cannot regain it again! According to your measure of judgment.

but I will trust in the Lords Judgment and not mans.


I encourage you to read this short manuscript. It goes into great detail about the rapture. Pages 11-15 go ionto detail about the timing of the rapture and th epurpose of the tribulation period.

Once again as you have declared that you believe the rapture will not take place until the resurrection is complete, that makes you according to the terms used to define- a post millenial rapturist.
 

Ronald Nolette

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ehold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’ = ALL 7 churches
Jesus also said at teh end of the book of revelation that He is coming quickly. That is 220 hundred years ago! YOu need to understand the original greek word and its usage.

But kept from the hour of temptation means to be kept out of- which equates to the rapture.

But the key phrase of a pre trib rapture is but one.

1 Thessalonians 1:10

King James Version

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

delivered is "ryomai" which means to draw to ones self. and it is in the present , middle deponent participle.

The wrath to come is not the lake of fire. that is never called that. Wrath, when used of an "event" is almost exclusively the 70th week of Daniel or what we call the tribulation. If it used of a different event, it is so described specifically for that event.
 

David in NJ

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So you believe the seals, trumpets and bowls are all telling the 70th week of daniel?
Brother please look carefully at this:

Daniel 9:24
24“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.

Ask yourself and the LORD in the LIGHT of the Gospel:
a.) Does the NEW COVENANT apply only to the Gentiles or only to the Jews AND does it include the entire nation?

If we say: No, it does not apply to the Jews as a nation because they are not all saved.
Then you would be stating that the Gospel is not sufficient to SAVE the Jewish nation as a whole and therefore you would be ADDING to the finished WORK of GOD whereby HE RESTED on the 7th Day = CHRIST'S Blood Atonement for the sins of the WORLD/ALL Nations

So you must return to Daniel to grasp the fullness of it and how the Gospel is the MAIN Truth that:
a.) finish the transgression
b.) made and end of sins
c.) make reconciliation for iniquity
d.) bring in everlasting righteousness
e.) seal up vision and prophecy = Revelation

BUT BUT BUT - you may quip - the Nation of Israel must ALL be saved.

Well, this is TRUE and it will come to FRUITION but ONLY by the SAME Gospel/New Covenant of His Blood

that the LORD said while dying on the Cross: "IT IS FINISHED"
 

David in NJ

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Well thank you for your ad-hominem by saying anyone who believes in the pre trib rapture has added to or taken away from Scripture. so you imply that all who believe in a pre trib rapture have had their names taken out of the book of life then.

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

You should not engage with any pre trib believer as we have lost our salvation and cannot regain it again! According to your measure of judgment.

but I will trust in the Lords Judgment and not mans.


I encourage you to read this short manuscript. It goes into great detail about the rapture. Pages 11-15 go ionto detail about the timing of the rapture and th epurpose of the tribulation period.

Once again as you have declared that you believe the rapture will not take place until the resurrection is complete, that makes you according to the terms used to define- a post millenial rapturist.

@Ronald Nolette says: Well thank you for your ad-hominem by saying anyone who believes in the pre trib rapture has added to or taken away from Scripture. so you imply that all who believe in a pre trib rapture have had their names taken out of the book of life then.

You just committed ad hominem AND false accusation

i NEVER said and NEVER implied: "all who believe in a pre trib rapture have had their names taken out of the book of life then."

EASY FIX = find the scripture(s) where the LORD and the Apostles said: "The LORD will pre-trib rapture His Church BEFORE the Antichrist and BEFORE the Resurretcion."

Brother - Stay in the Peace of Christ with me by which we all must "love one another fervently"
 

Ronald Nolette

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EASY FIX = find the scripture(s) where the LORD and the Apostles said: "The LORD will pre-trib rapture His Church BEFORE the Antichrist and BEFORE the Resurretcion."
Find the passage that says Jesus will rapture the church at then end of the millenium when He performs the last resurrection and completes the resurrection as you declared!

@Ronald Nolette says: Well thank you for your ad-hominem by saying anyone who believes in the pre trib rapture has added to or taken away from Scripture. so you imply that all who believe in a pre trib rapture have had their names taken out of the book of life then.

You just committed ad hominem AND false accusation
Not in the least.

Here are your words:

i will respond to this from Scripture without adding or taking away from Scripture which all have done when promoting pre-trib rapture or similar.
And I showed you the verse where Jesus pronounced the penalty for those who do! So you believe we add or take away form Scripture- so I speak truth!
 

David in NJ

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Jesus also said at teh end of the book of revelation that He is coming quickly. That is 220 hundred years ago! YOu need to understand the original greek word and its usage.

But kept from the hour of temptation means to be kept out of- which equates to the rapture.

But the key phrase of a pre trib rapture is but one.

1 Thessalonians 1:10​

King James Version​

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

delivered is "ryomai" which means to draw to ones self. and it is in the present , middle deponent participle.

The wrath to come is not the lake of fire. that is never called that. Wrath, when used of an "event" is almost exclusively the 70th week of Daniel or what we call the tribulation. If it used of a different event, it is so described specifically for that event.
Ron says: "But kept from the hour of temptation means to be kept out of- which equates to the rapture."

JESUS never said He would keep the Philadelphia via a rapture.

HE said HE would KEEP them until His Coming.

This is HIS Promise to all of His = John ch17 , Heb 13:5-6 , Matthew 24:14

Hebrews 13:5-6
Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, for God has said:

“Never will I leave you,
never will I forsake you.”

So we say with confidence:

“The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid.

What can man do to me?”
 
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David in NJ

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Find the passage that says Jesus will rapture the church at then end of the millenium when He performs the last resurrection and completes the resurrection as you declared!


Not in the least.

Here are your words:


And I showed you the verse where Jesus pronounced the penalty for those who do! So you believe we add or take away form Scripture- so I speak truth!
EXONERATING EVIDENCE against your false claim = i will respond to this from Scripture without adding or taking away from Scripture which all have done when promoting pre-trib rapture or similar.

NOTICE how i NEVER accused or threatened you or anyone with your false claim of:
"all who believe in a pre trib rapture have had their names taken out of the book of life then."



The WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE says: "love one another fervently"
 

Jim C

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Find the passage that says Jesus will rapture the church at then end of the millenium when He performs the last resurrection and completes the resurrection as you declared!


Not in the least.

Here are your words:


And I showed you the verse where Jesus pronounced the penalty for those who do! So you believe we add or take away form Scripture- so I speak truth!
Find the passage after Rev 3 that even mentions the church.

Also, all promises in the letters to the churches apply to all believers.
 

David in NJ

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Find the passage that says Jesus will rapture the church at then end of the millenium when He performs the last resurrection and completes the resurrection as you declared!


Not in the least.

Here are your words:


And I showed you the verse where Jesus pronounced the penalty for those who do! So you believe we add or take away form Scripture- so I speak truth!

Also, you will never find a single declaration of 'pre-trib' rapture in the entire Holy Scriptures from Genesis to Revelation.
 
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