Ephesians 2 - what does it mean to be saved by grace?

[spockrates]

Hi,

I'm new to the forum and am trying to figure out what interpretation of Ephesians 2:8-10 is corrrect--the Catholic one, or the Evangelical one, or some other.

[sup]8[/sup] For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— [sup]9[/sup] not by works, so that no one can boast. [sup]10[/sup] For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

(Ephesians 2)​

My understanding of the Evangelical view:

[sup]8[/sup] For it is by [God's undeserved kindness] you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— [sup]9[/sup] not by [good] works [you do by your own power, nor by the power of God], so that no one can boast. [sup]10[/sup] For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works [by the power of God], which God prepared in advance for us to do.

(Ephesians 2)​

My understanding of the Catholic view:

[sup]8[/sup] For it is by [God's power to empower you to live like Christ] you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— [sup]9[/sup] not by [good] works [you do by your own power], so that no one can boast. [sup]10[/sup] For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works [by the power of God], which God prepared in advance for us to do.

(Ephesians 2)​

I'm thinking either interpretations might be correct, and so the text appears ambiguous to me.

 

[7angels]

the first 2 are saying basically the same thing. grace means not giving us what we do deserve. i don't know catholic views at all but according to your interpretation of the catholic view is saying that by God's power to live that we were saved by faith(it is not by God's power we are saved by but by God's grace and if we could of been saved by God's power then the old testament people could of lived for God without Jesus' sacrifice). verse 9 not by good works( it should be not by any works at all because there is nothing we can or cannot do to be saved).

if you have questions just ask. i take things for granted sometimes and leave some things out because i forget not everyone else believes like i do.

 

[spockrates]

the first 2 are saying basically the same thing. grace means not giving us what we do deserve. i don't know catholic views at all but according to your interpretation of the catholic view is saying that by God's power to live that we were saved by faith(it is not by God's power we are saved by but by God's grace and if we could of been saved by God's power then the old testament people could of lived for God without Jesus' sacrifice). verse 9 not by good works( it should be not by any works at all because there is nothing we can or cannot do to be saved).

if you have questions just ask. i take things for granted sometimes and leave some things out because i forget not everyone else believes like i do.

Not sure I understand, 7A. Are you saying the Evangelical interpretation is the correct one, or are you saying the Evangelical interpretation is identical to the Catholic one?

 

[Episkopos]

We are saved by abiding in Christ....and living from His new life. His power (grace) is made perfect in our weakness. When we give up our carnal lives...His grace kicks in.

Don't be fooled into thinking that Jesus is the lamb of men in order to just forgive sins in a general amnesty. The soul that sins...it shall die. We have to live in reverse....from His life and grace...then filling in that life with obedience and wisdom. We can't declare ourselves saved...then try adding Christ to the equation. We don't add Christ to anything. We stop and die...then we start over in Christ.

 

[ttruscott]

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

• Saved implies saved from the addiction of and judgment against sin.
• through faith implies faith saves.
• this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God implies that we do not generate this faith ourselves (presumably because we are enslaved /addicted to sin) but GOD generates it within us freely as a gift
• not by works, so that no one can boast implies that no one earned this gift by working for it, so no one can boast of their achievment
• For we are God’s workmanship implies HE made us what we are, not ourselves
• created in Christ Jesus to do good works, implies that our creation was to do good works
• which God prepared in advance for us to do. implies HE (apparently ) predestinated our lives of holiness after our salvation

Peace, Ted

 

[7angels]

Not sure I understand, 7A. Are you saying the Evangelical interpretation is the correct one, or are you saying the Evangelical interpretation is identical to the Catholic one?

the evangelicals is the closest of the 2.

 

[veteran]

Hi,

I'm new to the forum and am trying to figure out what interpretation of Ephesians 2:8-10 is corrrect--the Catholic one, or the Evangelical one, or some other.

It's much better to include the whole chapter, and let all of it flow, to get the proper meaning...


Eph 2:1-22
1 And you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Apostle Paul is speaking mainly to whom? Gentiles. Where? At Ephesus (west coast of Asia Minor).

He's simply saying how they in the past walked according to the ways of this world, according to their flesh, and were thus doomed, and were by that nature children of wrath.

4 But God, Who is rich in mercy, for His great love wherewith He loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come He might shew the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

That God's Grace through His Son was ordained to come was first written back in the Old Testament prophets. Isaiah points to both Israel and the Gentiles in that. It's about God having Mercy upon those who were not His people that became His people through Jesus Christ.


8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

God's Salvation comes by His Grace, by His Mercy, and not from anything we could ever do to earn or deserve it. We know it comes individually by Faith on Jesus Christ, and not by our works.


10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

God ordained us to His Salvation through Jesus Christ, and it is by His Grace (unmerited favor). He created us unto good works through Him as the by-product of His Grace.


11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

Those Gentiles Paul spoke that to were in the past Gentiles according to the flesh, not yet given God's Grace through His Son Jesus Christ. They were 'spiritually' called Uncircumcison by those of Israel who were under the Circumcision in the flesh.


12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

And when those Gentiles were of the world without Christ Jesus and His Grace, they were aliens (foreigners) away from God's covenants, and were outside of God's Mercy and Grace, doomed. The "commonwealth of Israel" phrase Paul uses there represents God's Salvation by Grace through Jesus Christ, and includes God's promises in that.


13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

But now, the Gentiles who used to be without God's Mercy and without God's promises to Israel, have been brought into that "commonwealth of Israel" and God's covenants of promise, done by Faith on The Saviour Jesus Christ.


14 For He is our peace, Who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

God through His Son Jesus Christ is our Peace, Who has abolished the enmity of the flesh, and has made both believing Israel and believing Gentile one Body, having broken down the middle wall of partition required under the Old Covenant Levitical priesthood (see Book of Hebrews).

Thus Christ nailed the law of commandments contained in ordinances to His cross, ending the Old Covenant system of ritual sacrifices, priestly ritual, various washings and offerings, ceremonial worship requiring a temple, needing a priest to represent us before God, etc.


16 And that He might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Christ's death upon the cross reconciled both believing Israelite and believing Gentile to God. After Christ was crucified, The Gospel went to the Gentiles too, becoming their peace also. And through Christ Jesus, both now have access by The Spirit unto The Father.


19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

Now these Gentiles Paul says, are no more strangers and foreigners away from God's covenants of promise through His Son Jesus Christ, but are now 'fellowcitizens' with the saints; now part of the household (family) of God.


20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In Whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In Whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
(KJV)

They are built upon the foundation laid by the Apostles and OT prophets, our Lord Jesus Himself as the Chief Cornerstone. And all together now is a tightly-fit framed building as a holy temple unto The Lord, and in Christ Jesus we are spiritually built together to be a habitation of God through His Spirit.

 

[kensapp]

Grace is God’s unmerited favor, His undeserved kindness. Grace is God’s approval, God’s acceptance, God’s favor towards the sinner because of Jesus Christ. None of it is deserved. None of it is earned. The sinner does not merit it and cannot merit it. God has graciously and freely poured out His love and kindness toward the sinner who believes on His Son.

 

[biggandyy]

It's quite simple when we keep in mind the OP, the Evangelical over against the Catholic teaching.

The difference of opinion is how Justification takes place within those verses.

Catholics hold to an infusion of righteousness through grace. Evangelicals (Protestants) hold to an imputation of righteousness through grace.

The grace is the same, the results are different from a righteousness point of view.
http://www.savevid.com/video/imputed-vs-infused-righteousness-by-rc-sproul-part-1-of-2.html
http://www.savevid.com/video/imputed-vs-infused-righteousness-by-rc-sproul-part-2-of-2.html

RC does a great job explaining both systems.

 

[Stan]

The Greek word for Grace used here in v5 and v8 is, 'charis', which has the following connotations;

1) grace​

a) that which affords joy, pleasure, delight, sweetness, charm, loveliness: grace of speech​

2) good will, loving-kindness, favour​

a) of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues​

3) what is due to grace​

a) the spiritual condition of one governed by the power of divine grace​

b} the token or proof of grace, benefit​

1) a gift of grace​

2) benefit, bounty​

4) thanks, (for benefits, services, favours), recompense, reward​

Paul shows what God's grace consisted of.

[sup]4[/sup]But because of His great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, [sup]5 [/sup]made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions —it is by grace you have been saved. ​

[sup]6 [/sup]And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, [sup]7 [/sup]in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in His kindness to us in Christ Jesus. [sup]8 [/sup]For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith.​

Love, Mercy, Kindness, Life, Honour....all these aspects of God are distilled into one word, GRACE, which we receive by FAITH.