I agree with all these things, but I don't believe the Bible teaches that God will return us to spiritual death, being "unborn again".
His chastening . . . one of my most dear promises!!
Much love!
Eternal Life is Now!
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His chastening . . . one of my most dear promises!!
Much love!
MA2444
Well-Known Member
I read a lot of carnal people's various appraisals. I am inviting you to stop with the knee jerk reactions, feelings, and surmisings.....and engage in the biblical doctrines through the text.
I sound hard because I have little to nothing to work with that isn't based on human appraisals that fail the truth.
You don't like the way I rebuke or correct. Well I have 8 children that may concur. But these are all very successful. There is a difference between being a father and a mother. Modern people hate fathers and love to be mothered. Just look at the church of today.
So maybe I am more of a father than a mother.
As I stated, if you want me to take you seriously...provide the reasons for what you say is either right or wrong. Don't sweat the feelings part.
Maybe you hate the truth. Maybe you have an affinity for truthful sounding things. Maybe you are led by feelings and NOT the Spirit? Unless you lay out your own basis for saying what you do...I remain neutral in your regard.
A sinner HATES to be rebuked. A wise person LOVES when he/she is rebuked or corrected...because that is the way of growth.
Which are you? Expose your own process.
I will take a guess at what you think I'm saying that is WRONG. I speak against the assurance of salvation..because it is so often premature. Instead it is a religious certainty that poses for a true assurance. Even then, a saint is NOT relying on assurances but considers himself an unfruitful slave. It is that very assurance that leads people to weep and gnash their teeth upon realizing just how duped they were.
See your unwillingness to be transparent and my trying to tease out some honesty from you...
blah Blah BLAH. Or, you could admit that what I wrote made you feel uncomfortable so you didnt want to respond to it so try to get me talking about anything else at all!
If one person says you are wrong, they might have a problem. If everyone says your wrong, you might be the problem.
Your problem? Poor delivery.
I think John made it pretty clear on how we have assurance a hope that is expected to obtain eternal life.
1John 5:13,
- These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life and that you continue to believe in the name of the Son of God
John says we know we have eternal life by what is written.
Then he teaches faith is the condition by which we have hope.
Then he teaches we must continue in belief to know we have eternal life.
I know I will have eternal life not because of some emotional feeling I have but by the written word of God.
Mark 16:16,
- he that believeth and is baptized will be saved; he that believeth not will be condemned.
Revelation 2:10,
- Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer indeed the devil is about to throw some of you into prison that you may be tested and you will have tribulation ten days, be(command) faithful until death and I will give you the crown of life
You've used a word in your paraphrase which John did not use, nor do I see it reflected in the passage, that he teaches "we must continue to believe to know we have eternal life". I don't see this in the passage.
Rather, that we may know we have eternal life, and that we continue to believe. His intent is that we know we have eternal life, and that our believing continues.
There is actually a different way we know, it's said several places in the Bible,
1 John 3:24 KJV
And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
This is one of those places.
One problem with interpreting passages as if they were saying that the born again may "die again" is that it is in direct conflict with some clearly stated passages, one of which is,
Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
If we've been raised with Him, we shall appear with Him. No other qualifications given.
I think what is at issue is whether the faith of Christ may fail you, and I don't believe it will.
Much love!
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Ditto.
And what here tells us that he who believes and is baptized might stop believing?
Much love!
NO I DID NOT.
Quote me inserting a word into a passage?
I used my own words that is not inserting words into text.
Really then explain what John said,
1John 3:15,
- whoever hates His brother is a murderer and you no that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him
John is speaking to born again christians in 123John
Yes, you are correct, I misspoke, I'm sorry! I'll edit my post to make it more accurate. Please see the previous post.
Much love!
He's just said that a murderer does not have eternal life. This is not a born again Christian.
John wrote something else,
1 John 2:19 LITV
They went out from us, but they were not of us. For if they were of us, they would have remained with us; but they left so that it might be revealed that they all are not of us.
"If this, then that." IF they were of us, they would remain. They went out, showing they were not of us. This is given as a definitive statement about how to know what is what.
The murderer didn't have, then lose eternal life, the murderer doesn't have eternal life, is what John wrote here.
God is in these things teaching us how to know whether we've deceived ourselves, or been deceived, that we are true when we are not. If you have hatred for your brothers, you need to check yourself, whether you are truly in Christ.
Much love!
O, so you think John said this,
John 3:15,
- Whoever(not addressed to christians)
- is a murderer and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him
John IS speaking to his brothers in Christ listen,
1John 3:15,
- Whoever hates his brother(brother in Christ)
- is a murderer(whoever hates His brother in Christ is a murderer)
- and you(speaking to Christians) know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him
There is no doubt its brethren that dont love brethren are seen by God as the same as a murderer.
Read the next verse,
John 3:16,
- by this we(christians) know love, because Jesus laid down His life for us and we(christians) ought to lay down our lives for the brethren
That is the context.
You have a choice to make Marks.
You can just believe what the Bible says.
Or
You can continue to hold to unbiblical doctrine that contradicts the Bible.
I hope you choose the Bible over your presuppositions
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Exellent question. That is The question that MUST have an answer!!!When does eternal life begin?
When this question is answered this subject is solved.
Bible uses eternal life in present tense and future possession
Examples of Present possession:
John 5:24
John 3:36
John 6:54
1John 5:11
1John 5:13
Examples of Future possession:
Mark 10:30
Romans 2:7
Romans 6:22
Titus 1:2
Titus 3:7
1John 2:25
How to make sense of this,
Eternal life is so certain it is spoken of as already come to pass, present tense.
Similar language in these verses,
Present Joshua 6:2,
- I have given unto thine hand Jericho
Present Matthew 26:2,
- the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified
Present Luke 3:9
- and now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees
These events were spoken of in the present tense but were future.
Why?
Because of the certainty of those events taking place.
Conclusion:
Eternal life is certain because of Gods promise,
1John 2:25,
- and this is the promise that God promised us eternal life
Eternal life is promised to all obedient believers,
Eternal life is spoken in present possession due to the certainty of it.
But the actual possession of everlasting life is RESERVED IN HEAVEN NOT EARTH.
Just as Peter said,
1Peter 1:3-4,
- blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us to a living hope through the ressurection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
To an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away,
RESERVED in HEAVEN for you
No beginning and no end...otherwise it isn't eternal.When does eternal life begin?
MA2444
Well-Known Member
When does eternal life begin?
It has already begun for us, hasn't it?
The first 100 years are the hardest.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Amen! Elsewhere in scripture, John draws a contrast between children of the devil and children of God. 1 John 1:6 - If we say (key word) that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
*Walking in darkness is descriptive of children of the devil. *Walking in the light is descriptive of children of God. *Only those who are born of God/believers are in the light. (Acts 26:18; 2 Corinthians 6:14; Ephesians 5:8)
In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says (key word) he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In verse 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. These are clearly not born-again Christians.
*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that walks in darkness/hates his brother is connected with children of the devil.
There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers (all professing to be genuine Christians/believers) and it's not hard to find them mixed together throughout the Bible and throughout various churches today and on various Christian forum sites.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Good point...makes sense to me. If they are called brethren in Christ to the one who hypothetically "murders" them (figuratively or literally) then the one who "murders" must be a brother/sister in Christ.
Christians can err. It is possible to backslide or fall away. As we have the example in the OT it is possible for the Holy Spirit to be grieved to the point of departing the temple/soul. And believers can be led astray. Bible also says those who go back under the Law are fallen from grace. The scriptures don't teach an attitude of complacency, but the opposite.
But I don't believe it necessarily happens easily to one who is truly born again. Three-fold cord isn't easily broken.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
You have this backwards.
Faith is the substance of things hoped for. the evidence of things not seen (heb 11)
If we do not have a hope. we can not have any faith.
And it is based on things not seen.
No he does not. He says it is the knowledge we have eternal life as the reason we continue to believe
How can you know you have eternal life if you think it can be lost? This makes no sense.
John 3, He who believes is not condemned, He who does not believe is condemned already.
You do not come out of condemnation and go back into it. The unbeliever has always been in a state of condemnation.
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
I believe we are "accounted" as worthy the same way we are '"accounted " as righteous and that's by faith, not works. (Romans 4:5-6) We are not worthy or righteous "in of ourselves." (Romans 3:23; 6:23)
Luk 20:35
But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage
Luk 20:45
Then in the audience of all the people he said unto his disciples,
Luk 21:34-36
And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man
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