Eternal Security

[VictoryinJesus]

We can reflect God's glory. We do not add to His glory.

Stranger

Understood and agree. But then I am not so sure. Romans 9:23
[23] And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

 

[Stranger]

Understood and agree. But then I am not so sure. Romans 9:23
[23] And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

Yes, God manifests His glory in various ways. And we are the benefactors of that. I guess my point is that we have not added to His glory. We have not made God more glorious than He already is. We simply become a point where His glory is displayed.

Stranger

 

[Jun2u]

"Not MY will but THINE be done" means Jesus had free will and He chose God's will for Him and not His own.

The above has NOTHING to do with Jesus having free will. This is a dialog between a loving Father and Son as Jesus learned obedience (Heb 5:8), which also falls under the commandment, “Honor thy father and thy mother.”

Remember, Jesus was man as well as God when He was on earth.

God can tell us what He would have us to do...but it's up to us to choose to do it.

In the Old Testament there were consequences to pay when the Israelites disobeyed God. God allows things to happen but there is no such thing as “free will” where man can choose for God or not. This concept is alien to the Bible!!!

Philemon 1:14
He was saved. He had free will.

Paul was speaking about Onesimus and trusting Philemon to take him back out of the goodness of his heart as he (Onesimus) is a fellow believer.

 

[Episkopos]

The above has NOTHING to do with Jesus having free will. This is a dialog between a loving Father and Son as Jesus learned obedience (Heb 5:8), which also falls under the commandment, “Honor thy father and thy mother.”

Remember, Jesus was man as well as God when He was on earth.



In the Old Testament there were consequences to pay when the Israelites disobeyed God. God allows things to happen but there is no such thing as “free will” where man can choose for God or not. This concept is alien to the Bible!!!



Paul was speaking about Onesimus and trusting Philemon to take him back out of the goodness of his heart as he (Onesimus) is a fellow believer.

Of course there is free will. It is limited to the choices we are presented. We choose God every day...or not. We are fully responsible for the lives we lead. Otherwise there would be no judgment after this life.

 

[Jun2u]

The kingdom of Heaven is the kingdom of God upon the earth as promised to Israel as the ruling priestly nation. This is why it is only found in the Gospel of Matthew as Matthew is the Gospel of the kingdom. It's emphasis is totally Jewish.

You’re a smart guy perhaps you can answer this.

If what you say is true that the kingdom of heaven is upon earth, can you give the scripture reference?

Have you ever wondered why Abraham did not buy land except a piece of land to bury Sarah in if he is to possess the land for ever?

Did you ever wonder why Abraham gave Lot the best grazing land for their sheep?

 

[Jun2u]

Of course there is free will. It is limited to the choices we are presented. We choose God every day...or not. We are fully responsible for the lives we lead. Otherwise there would be no judgment after this life.

I do believe there is judgment to come to answer for for our sins. Are you saying man has the capability or power to choose for God...or not? Just want to make it clear.

 

[Stranger]

You’re a smart guy perhaps you can answer this.

If what you say is true that the kingdom of heaven is upon earth, can you give the scripture reference?

Have you ever wondered why Abraham did not buy land except a piece of land to bury Sarah in if he is to possess the land for ever?

Did you ever wonder why Abraham gave Lot the best grazing land for their sheep?

There is much Scripture which addresses the 'kingdom of heaven' upon the earth. This involves a lengthy discussion of the 'Kingdom' all together. And I think it would derail the topic of eternal security. I suggest you or I start another topic or find one on the kingdom all ready, and discuss it there.

I can't say I have wondered about your last two questions. So, what do you suggest?

Stranger

 

[GodsGrace]

Of course there is free will. It is limited to the choices we are presented. We choose God every day...or not. We are fully responsible for the lives we lead. Otherwise there would be no judgment after this life.

Exactly...because God would not be a just God.

God is love.
God is mercy.
God is just.

 

[GodsGrace]

I do believe there is judgment to come to answer for for our sins. Are you saying man has the capability or power to choose for God...or not? Just want to make it clear.

Let's see...,
How's this?
Joshua 24:15
"If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

If you have a CHOICE, it means you have FREE WILL to make that choice.

 

[Jun2u]

Let's see...,
How's this?
Joshua 24:15
"If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

If you have a CHOICE, it means you have FREE WILL to make that choice.

Joshua 24:15 sounds so pleasing to the ears of those who believe man has a free choice to choose for God.

However, this must be read in light of Romans 3 where God’s assessment of the human race is: “There is NONE righteous NO NOT ONE, there is NONE that seeks after God!!!

Look at the example of the publican of Luke 18 when seeing Jesus from afar smote his breast and cried out loud, “have mercy on me a sinner.” This is the ONLY WAY anyone can seek after God IF the Father is drawing him (John 6:44).

We’ve gone round and round with this issue, why not just accept what God has declared???

Scripture cannot refute Scripture!!!

To God Be The Glory

 

[bbyrd009]

there is NONE that seeks after God!!!

This is the ONLY WAY anyone can seek after God

 

[Jun2u]

I can't say I have wondered about your last two questions. So, what do you suggest?

I suggest you do more studying and keep the midnight oil burning.

Abraham’s act not buying any land and giving Lot the best grazing land has plenty to do with eternal security.

Abraham knew it and so does many believers today know it!

 

[Jun2u]

there is NONE that seeks after God!!!

This is the ONLY WAY anyone can seek after God


Seems like a contradiction in terms, right?

It is true no one seeks after God for God has declared it. Are you calling God a liar???

It is also true that the only way that anyone WILL seek God is only IF the Father draws him!!!

Why? Because we are all spiritually dead and sold to sin therefore, cannot act upon the things of God unless we have become saved.

Is there anything too difficult for God that when He declares some things He will also do and will fulfill them?

 

[Episkopos]

there is NONE that seeks after God!!!

This is the ONLY WAY anyone can seek after God


Seems like a contradiction in terms, right?

It is true no one seeks after God for God has declared it. Are you calling God a liar???

It is also true that the only way that anyone WILL seek God is only IF the Father draws him!!!

Why? Because we are all spiritually dead and sold to sin therefore, cannot act upon the things of God unless we have become saved.

Is there anything too difficult for God that when He declares some things He will also do and will fulfill them?

With God all things are possible.

 

[Stranger]

I suggest you do more studying and keep the midnight oil burning.

Abraham’s act not buying any land and giving Lot the best grazing land has plenty to do with eternal security.

Abraham knew it and so does many believers today know it!

Sorry I will try and keep up.

Yet, you didn't say what Abraham's acts meant or what Abraham knew that we didn't. Is it a big secret? If you know something I am willing to listen.

And, are you still interested in the Kingdom? Or have you blown it off?

Stranger

 

[GodsGrace]

Yeah,,,pretty funny!!

@bbyrd009

 

[Enoch111]

Yet, you didn't say what Abraham's acts meant or what Abraham knew that we didn't. Is it a big secret?

Abraham was saved by grace through faith, thus his salvation was eternally secure. He was also told that he would be a stranger and a pilgrim on earth, and would dwell in Canaan (the Land of Promise). He was also given a vision of the New Jerusalem, so that he would know where his eternal home was. See Hebrews 11. So he allowed Lot to choose where Lot would settle, and as we know, Lot made a very poor choice.

As to "the Kingdom" that is yet future (after the second coming of Christ). We are in the Church Age right now, and the Great Commission is the top priority of every Christian.

 

[GodsGrace]

Joshua 24:15 sounds so pleasing to the ears of those who believe man has a free choice to choose for God.

However, this must be read in light of Romans 3 where God’s assessment of the human race is: “There is NONE righteous NO NOT ONE, there is NONE that seeks after God!!!

Look at the example of the publican of Luke 18 when seeing Jesus from afar smote his breast and cried out loud, “have mercy on me a sinner.” This is the ONLY WAY anyone can seek after God IF the Father is drawing him (John 6:44).

We’ve gone round and round with this issue, why not just accept what God has declared???

Scripture cannot refute Scripture!!!

To God Be The Glory

Indeed. Scripture cannot refute scripture; although I don't understand what John 6:44 has to do with our discussion. If YOU believe only God can DRAW those that will be saved to Himself, then what is the use of the publican crying out "have mercy on me a sinner"?

If YOU are correct, God HAS NO MERCY. HE will choose who goes to heaven and HE will choose who goes to hell. How does a God who chooses those that will be saved based on nothing have any mercy?? Why cry out to Him?

Joshua 24:15 sounds good to our human ear because it's the truth. If you know the truth it will set you free. Free also to understand the bible properly.

First you said "there is none that seeks after God".

THEN you said: "To cry out loud like the publican said is the only way one can seek after God IF GOD IS DRAWING HIM."

Why cry at all if anyway GOD is going to save the publican no matter what?

And while you explain that away, pleases explain also :

Acts 16:30-31 The jailer asked Paul how he could be saved:
30and after he brought them out, he said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Scripture certainly does not refute scripture.
Joshua chose to serve the LORD GOD.
The jailer chose to believe in the Lord Jesus.

To choose means to have free will.

 

[GodsGrace]

Abraham was saved by grace through faith, thus his salvation was eternally secure. He was also told that he would be a stranger and a pilgrim on earth, and would dwell in Canaan (the Land of Promise). He was also given a vision of the New Jerusalem, so that he would know where his eternal home was. See Hebrews 11. So he allowed Lot to choose where Lot would settle, and as we know, Lot made a very poor choice.

As to "the Kingdom" that is yet future (after the second coming of Christ). We are in the Church Age right now, and the Great Commission is the top priority of every Christian.

The Kingdom of God starts right here.
Do you believe Jesus came to die on the cross to forgive our sins...
And did He not also want to set up the Kingdom of God here in THIS LIFE?
Didn't He want to let God's light shine and attempt to make this earth a better place? Did He not teach us how?

Start with the beatitudes.
Mathew 5:3-10
Why did Jesus preach more about the Kingdom than anything else, including salvation?

Because He wanted us to have a better life right here,,,and if we would all adhere to Jesus' teachings, we would have a better life right here.

 

[GodsGrace]

there is NONE that seeks after God!!!

This is the ONLY WAY anyone can seek after God


Seems like a contradiction in terms, right?

It is true no one seeks after God for God has declared it. Are you calling God a liar???

It is also true that the only way that anyone WILL seek God is only IF the Father draws him!!!

Why? Because we are all spiritually dead and sold to sin therefore, cannot act upon the things of God unless we have become saved.

Is there anything too difficult for God that when He declares some things He will also do and will fulfill them?

How do we become saved?