Everlasting burnings

[VictoryinJesus]

It's not directly about hell; it's about which of us sinful mortals can dwell with a God that is a consuming fire (Hebrews 12:29).

Eternal Light! Eternal Light!
How pure that soul must be,
When, placed within Thy searching sight,
It shrinks not, but with calm delight
Can live and look on Thee.

The angels that surround Thy throne
May bear that burning bliss;
But that is surely theirs alone,
For they have never, never known
A fallen world like this.

O how shall I, whose native sphere
Is dark, whose mind is dim,
Before the Ineffable appear,
And on my naked spirit bear
The uncreated beam?

There is a way for man to rise
To that sublime abode:
An offering and a sacrifice,
A Holy Spirit's energies,
An Advocate with God.

These, these prepare us for the sight
Of holiness above.
The sons of ignorance and night
Can dwell in the eternal Light,
Through the eternal Love.

Thomas Binney

“It's not directly about hell; it's about which of us sinful mortals can dwell with a God that is a consuming fire (Hebrews 12:29).”

Wouldn’t agree “sinful mortals can dwell with” in sin is consumed, destroyed.

Isaiah 64:7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.

Numbers 17:12-13 And the children of Israel spake unto Moses, saying, Behold, we die, we perish, we all perish. [13] Whosoever cometh any thing near unto the tabernacle of the Lord shall die: shall we be consumed with dying?

 

[brakelite]

Certainly not those who have been saved by grace and are kept by the power of God. God is a consuming fire to His enemies but a loving Father to His children.

Isaiah himself tells us who may stand in the midst of the everlasting burnings.
KJV Isaiah 33
14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
15 He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil;

 

[Helen]

Certainly not those who have been saved by grace and are kept by the power of God. God is a consuming fire to His enemies but a loving Father to His children.

As we know..Our God is a consuming Fire.

I like the verse where David says - " Light and darkness are both alike to Thee" It is the same with The Fire. It is just a different facet of our God Himself..
We cannot understand the half with our pea sized brains...but One Day He will reveal Himself ..and we will says.. "Aah There is Our Wonderful God in all of His fulness. "

 

[Enoch111]

Isaiah himself tells us who may stand in the midst of the everlasting burnings.

But that passage needs to be properly interpreted.

 

[brakelite]

But that passage needs to be properly interpreted.

As do all passages of scripture.
KJV Psalms 15
David Describes the Citizens of Zion
1 LORD, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill?
2 He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.
3 He that backbiteth not with his tongue, nor doeth evil to his neighbour, nor taketh up a reproach against his neighbour.
4 In whose eyes a vile person is contemned; but he honoureth them that fear the LORD. He that sweareth to his own hurt, and changeth not.
5 He that putteth not out his money to usury, nor taketh reward against the innocent. He that doeth these things shall never be moved.
As with the above Isaiah quote, here David informs us, agreeing with Isaiah, that it is those who do righteousness... Who act and perform their profession... Who express their faith in word and deed, who will finally be saved.
KJV Psalms 24
3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?
4 He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully.

 

[Steve Owen]

“It's not directly about hell; it's about which of us sinful mortals can dwell with a God that is a consuming fire (Hebrews 12:29).”

Wouldn’t agree “sinful mortals can dwell with” in sin is consumed, destroyed.

Isaiah 64:7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.

Numbers 17:12-13 And the children of Israel spake unto Moses, saying, Behold, we die, we perish, we all perish. [13] Whosoever cometh any thing near unto the tabernacle of the Lord shall die: shall we be consumed with dying?

Exactly so. But for God's own people, Christ has taken all God's wrath against sin upon Himself and extinguished it. 'There is now therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.' Instead, 'He leads me in the paths of Righteousness for His name's sake.'

 

[VictoryinJesus]

View attachment 7605

As we know..Our God is a consuming Fire.

I like the verse where David says - " Light and darkness are both alike to Thee" It is the same with The Fire. It is just a different facet of our God Himself..
We cannot understand the half with our pea sized brains...but One Day He will reveal Himself ..and we will says.. "Aah There is Our Wonderful God in all of His fulness. "

Didn’t begin this thread to focus on hell expect to maybe try “what is hell”. Is it wrath still on a people? Not saying God is Hell but if Hell (torment) is in relation to the consuming fire and sin unable to abide...once that sin is consumed...those of Christ have been given what remains and can stand and “walking in the fire”. as you said we know all things work for the good of those that love Him and are called to become Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Not appointed to wrath but called to walk in the midst of the fire, to dwell with the consuming fire and to not be consumed but instead His glory is revealed, to dwell with everlasting burnings ...death swallowed up in victory. The challenge of the hypocrites in saying because of sin ...who can dwell? It is a beautiful blessing even as the passage of the sword to the dividing...we should know it (He)is good for the separation and cutting away of sin. Isaiah 64:1-2 Oh that thou wouldest rend the heavens, that thou wouldest come down, that the mountains might flow down at thy presence, [2] As when the melting fire burneth, the fire causeth the waters to boil, to make thy name known to thine adversaries, that the nations may tremble at thy presence!

Consume ...everlasting destruction of sin ...wrath against enemies of the cross. To give them something not consumed yet remains. Jude 1:23-24 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; (everlasting burnings) hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. [24] Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Jude 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

'He leads me in the paths of Righteousness for His name's sake.'

“Paths of righteousness” “for His Name’s sake”: Romans 12:19-21 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. [20] Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. [21] Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Overcome evil with good...consider when Jesus was asked do you want us to call down fire from heaven and to consume them and He said “you know not what Spirit you are of.” Overcome evil with good. Overcome wrath with the peace of righteousness sown by those of the Spirit of righteousness.

Deuteronomy 32:33-35 Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps. [34] Is not this laid up in store with me, and sealed up among my treasures? [35] To me belongeth vengeance, and recompence; their foot shall slide in due time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.
..laid up in store with God...sealed up among His treasure is...”To me belongs vengeance, and recompence...”

Proverbs 25:21-22
[21] If thine enemy be hungry, give him bread to eat; and if he be thirsty, give him water to drink: [22] For thou shalt heap coals of fire upon his head, and the Lord shall reward thee.

The Lord shall reward thee...
“Give place to wrath” in giving the thirsty Living water to drink, the fruits of righteousness of the Spirit of righteousness...in doing so heap coals of fire...

Matthew 5:43-48 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. [44] But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; [45] That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. [46] For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? [47] And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others ? do not even the publicans so? [48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

In the parables Persecution arises for the Sake of the word, for His Name’s Sake...Matthew 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but endureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
-Luke 7:23 And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

Matthew 24:10
[10] And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

That is not those that walk in the midst of the Fire and are not consumed for His glory’s Sake but instead Matthew 13:23
[23] But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it ; which also beareth fruit(of the Spirit of righteousness), and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

 

[Helen]

Is it wrath still on a people? Not saying God is Hell but if Hell (torment) is in relation to the consuming fire and sin unable to abide...once that sin is consumed...those of Christ have been given what remains and can stand and “walking in the fire”. as you said we know all things work for the good of those that love Him and are called to become Romans 8:29

We all view things from different places and beliefs .
"For me" John 12 :32

The verses before are about judgement. "For me" when Jesus was raised up off the earth on the cross The Judgement of God upon sin was accomplished. Jesus drew all judgement and all men upon and into Himself. The Lamb slain from before the creation of the world...in plain view as The Last Lamb of God. Sin was judged right there.
Not many will agree ...but that is their too bad :)

This is taken from a commentary ...
Will draw all men unto me.—Better, . . . unto Myself. The words “all men” are not to be limited by interpretations which refer them to nations, or to elect persons within nations; but are to be taken in all the fulness of their width as meaning simply what they say—“all.” The drawing unto Himself is the assertion of His reign over the world, from which the prince of evil shall be cast out. He will Himself be the centre of the new kingdom, from which none shall be shut out. These Greeks who are drawn to Him now are the first-fruits of the harvest of which the whole world is the field, and of which the last day is to be the great ingathering. The word “draw” occurs once in the New Testament, besides this passage, in a moral sense (John 6:44; comp. Note on it there). It is accomplished in the work of the Holy Spirit, whose mission to the Church was dependent on the ascension of our Lord (John 7:39; John 16:7); and the promise is fulfilled even in the case of those who resist the Holy Spirit’s influence. They are drawn by the moral power of the life and death and resurrection of Christ brought home to them by the Holy Ghost....

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The words “all men” are not to be limited by interpretations which refer them to nations, or to elect persons within nations; but are to be taken in all the fulness of their width as meaning simply what they say—“all.” The drawing unto Himself is the assertion of His reign over the world

Wouldn’t disagree with what you said. But all things must (are) put under His feet. Can’t find the verse right now that says this is vengeance...for all to be brought down in subjection to the obedience of Christ.

from which the prince of evil shall be cast out.

“Shall be cast out” yet John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Have you ever considered He healed our infirmities. And how many times Paul mentioned his infirmities even saying he would rather glory in his weakness that the power of God may rest upon him. Although “it is finished” yet unfolding or folding inward toward Him; not sure which...

who are drawn to Him now are the first-fruits

“Now are the first fruits” gets tangled up in “elect” or “chosen” in some sins are open before going on to judgement some come after...tangled up in timing and offended in good work made manifest and that after cannot be hid...

Hebrews 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
A Better hope...

 

[VictoryinJesus]

We all view things from different places and beliefs .
"For me" John 12 :32

The verses before are about judgement. "For me" when Jesus was raised up off the earth on the cross The Judgement of God upon sin was accomplished. Jesus drew all judgement and all men upon and into Himself. The Lamb slain from before the creation of the world...in plain view as The Last Lamb of God. Sin was judged right there.
Not many will agree ...but that is their too bad :)

This is taken from a commentary ...
Will draw all men unto me.—Better, . . . unto Myself. The words “all men” are not to be limited by interpretations which refer them to nations, or to elect persons within nations; but are to be taken in all the fulness of their width as meaning simply what they say—“all.” The drawing unto Himself is the assertion of His reign over the world, from which the prince of evil shall be cast out. He will Himself be the centre of the new kingdom, from which none shall be shut out. These Greeks who are drawn to Him now are the first-fruits of the harvest of which the whole world is the field, and of which the last day is to be the great ingathering. The word “draw” occurs once in the New Testament, besides this passage, in a moral sense (John 6:44; comp. Note on it there). It is accomplished in the work of the Holy Spirit, whose mission to the Church was dependent on the ascension of our Lord (John 7:39; John 16:7); and the promise is fulfilled even in the case of those who resist the Holy Spirit’s influence. They are drawn by the moral power of the life and death and resurrection of Christ brought home to them by the Holy Ghost....

Have to say...It is great to see you back and remaining strong in Him!

 

[bbyrd009]

10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

This might be a good verse to illustrate the use of “believe“ for Pistis, as the sentence construction below kind of reveals; that verse is best translated with only one “believe,“ the one at the bottom, imo
2 Thessalonians 1:10 Lexicon: when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed-- for our testimony to you was believed.

 

[bbyrd009]

Have you ever considered He healed our infirmities. And how many times Paul mentioned his infirmities even saying he would rather glory in his weakness that the power of God may rest upon him. Although “it is finished” yet unfolding or folding inward toward Him; not sure which...

Could be may be that it is all finished, but it takes us a while to figure this out, although we certainly eventually May, yet there will be a new batch tomorrow who have not yet done this?

In other words Paul’s “glory in weakness” is broadly misinterpreted, And he is likely not saying “I’m glad I have an infirmity”

I’m not sure about this next part, and it is just a little too difficult for me to track down in my current state, but I believe that quote comes from the passage that includes “some of you are saying ‘I am of Apollos,’ some of you are saying ‘I am of John,’ etc?” Is that correct?

In my opinion Paul’s “thorn” was sycophants! Not sure what other “infirmities” he detailed?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

This might be a good verse to illustrate the use of “believe“ for Pistis, as the sentence construction below kind of reveals; that verse is best translated with only one “believe,“ the one at the bottom, imo
2 Thessalonians 1:10 Lexicon: when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed-- for our testimony to you was believed.

Looked it up in lexicon and the interlinear text...first would like to know what you see there that maybe I’m not seeing?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

In my opinion Paul’s “thorn” was sycophants! Not sure what other “infirmities” he detailed?

Probably so yet still a stake in the flesh keeping Paul from being exalted above measure ...which maybe goes with ...no, not glorying in infirmities and wanting them, but rather instead glorying in Christ seen above all else.

 

[bbyrd009]

Looked it up in lexicon and the interlinear text...first would like to know what you see there that maybe I’m not seeing?

Oh, I could be wrong, but I would put “have faith” in place of that first “believe”

 

[VictoryinJesus]

although we certainly eventually May, yet there will be a new batch tomorrow who have not yet done this?

“Yet there will be a new batch tomorrow” ... yes “by reason of death”...a new batch tomorrow...Hebrews 7:23-25 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: [24] But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
-many priest with infirmities...Hebrews 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

“They were not suffered to continue by reason of death...” brings further significance (imo) to in and for His Name’s sake which “continues”. Matthew 16:24-25 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. [25] For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.