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Evidence To Be Seen

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics Forum' started by Wrangler, Apr 24, 2021.

  1. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    We should not and need not abandon the field of evidence to the lost enemies of our Lord. See Psalm 19. In that thread, I made the following points. While faith is the evidence of things unseen, there is evidence to be seen. (In this thread, I want to compile the evidence.)

    Are you required to prove God exists? No because failure is an option. We do not have to be all things to all people as Saint Paul says in 1 Corinthians 9:22. Why not leverage the pathway of evidence to bring people to Christ? Let's reach people by all means, including evidence.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 24, 2021
  2. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    A few preliminaries. Putting aside religion, an aspect of logic, statistics and law is the one making the positive claim has the burden of proof. (Supposing otherwise is called in logic the argument fallacy of Appealing to Ignorance) What constitutes proof will be explained below. Likewise, the null hypothesis in statistics is that if the claim is not supported, its opposite is accepted.

    Ha: The new product is better than the old.
    H0: The new product is NOT better than the old.

    To these educated unbelievers, we need to speak their language of evidence, to displace the idol of science with the one true God. Atheists have deliberately set a standard of proof impossible to meet that many casual unbelievers have accepted by default. Proof standards include:
    1. mathematical certainty
    2. statistical significance
    3. beyond reasonable doubt (criminal trials)
    4. more likely than not (civil trials)
    I hold there are 5 proofs of God that meet criteria #4, more likely than not.

    One of the most important things to establish in statistics and debate is the acceptance criteria. Without the acceptance criteria being established trying to convince someone of something they do not want to accept is futile. They will always 'move the goalposts.'

    My specialty or outreach is atheists online and my goal is not persuasion but to get them to a point of being speechless. When people do not have a response, I know that I got them thinking. My go to tactic is to get them to establish an acceptance criteria BEFORE delving into proof. (This is an unorthodox approach as most Christians eagerly throw pearls before swine.) Once done, the biggest untapped opportunity to reach educated unbelievers IMO is to delve into the emerging science of 3 fields, which point unequivocally to an Intelligent Designer:
    1. Cosmology (Origins of Universe),
    2. Universal Constants in Physics (Fine Tuning),
    3. Biology & Genetics (irreducible complexity, 4D informational content).
     
  3. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Place Holder for Summary (to be edited later)
     
  4. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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  5. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Is Genesis Real?

     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2021
  6. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Signature In The Cell

     
  7. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Mathematical Challenges to Darwin’s Theory of Evolution

     
  8. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    A Layman's Summary of the Signature in the Cell

    Atheists invent a standard of proof designed to exclude all evidence that supports the existence of an Intelligent Designer. One way they do this is to assert the limitation of inquiry to be deductive reasoning only. However, most of human experience involves inductive reasoning. Most trials are settled by circumstantial evidence. Classic example is happening upon a book. Is its existence naturally ocurring or is there an intelligent mind behind the content of the book?

    We all know writing, the existence of a book, presupposes the existence of a writer.

    What we've learned about the inner working of a cell since Darwin makes evolution untenable in answering all the questions of the proliferation of life forms. One thing we've learned is that the DNA of a cell contains information - like a computer program.

    We know a book also contains information. The information in a book is 2-dimensional. A page with insignificant thickness contains letters, which make words, which make up sentences. Imagine how brilliant a mind would have to be to write information through the thickness of the pages in addition to the information contained on the 2D page? This would be merely 3D information content.

    What scientists have learned is the information in a cell is 4D. One example is when a liver in a body recognizes the presence of toxins. The orientation and relative alignment of the DNA molecule physically transforms, sending the information to the liver to produce enzymes to neutralize the toxins. Once complete, the orientation and relative alignment of the DNA molecule transforms back to its original alignment. This change over time is the part of what Darwin stated that remains valid but he had no idea the information in a cell, like computer programming, contains information in 4D.

    Keep in mind, 1 DNA strand is billions of letters, words and sentences long. Absurd to suppose this information was randomly arranged to function in 4D. The existence of a book presupposes the existence of a writer. The information in DNA presupposes the existence of a computer programmer at the molecular level, an intelligent designer. The signature in the cell.
     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2021
  9. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    What Is Irreducible Complexity?

     
  10. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    For your information you cannot establish the rules of engagement in the forum or threads.
    Members who identify as Christian are allowed to comment on any topic put forth by another member.
    Your OP is in error of our rules and will be edited.
     
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  11. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Evidence for Creation, The Significance of the Big Bang Theory

    Louis Markos wrote in Atheism on Trial that the arguments against God have not changed much since Greek philosophers put it in writing 2400 years ago. Atheists answer to the question of the existence of the universe is that it has always existed; the the universe is eternal.

    So, when evidence emerged in the 1st half of the 20 century of an expanding universe, the implication is that the further you go back in time, the smaller the universe is until you get to a beginning. It's hard to realize now because the theory is universally accepted that The big bang got its name from a man who thought the theory was total nonsense. The scientific evidence for Creation is irrefutable now - although atheists like to use other terms for it.

    A maxim in logic is that SOMETHING COMES FROM SOMETHING. An atheist is left with in the untenable position in light of the Big Bang Theory that EVERYTHING CAME FROM NOTHING. Of course, they may make an appeal to ignorance, that we don't know what started the Big Bang. In the absence of a better explanation, Creation is the only theory on the table.
     
  12. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Fine Tuning

    Fine tuning is a highly technical interrelationship of factors needed to sustain life. One of the first illogical assertions atheists want to suppose is what we KNOW is = to what we DO NOT KNOW. What we KNOW is life exists on Earth. This makes the numerator 1. To speculate life could exist on planets that are not Earth like distracts from the fact that the numerator of life on non-Earth like planets is 0, meaning probability cannot even be computed.

    The concept of fine tuning began with the 1970's show
    Cosmos with Dr Carl Sagan. He questioned how many other Earth like planets are there in the universe? An Earth size planet a 'goldilocks' distance away from the sun with an oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere, magnetic field, water, a large moon, etc. At that time he identified 8 factors needed to sustain life. No other planet in the universe has the same properties Earth does.

    Before the decade was out the # of factors rose to 32 and scientists stated it was mathematically impossible for another planet to have the set of conditions that Earth does to sustain life. Since then, the # of factors needed to sustain life has increased to over 200. This includes universal constants of the universe.

    Dr Meyer shared the Fine Tuning conclusion that if ANY of just the universal constants of the universe were off as little as to the 42 decimal place, life would not exist in this universe. The video below explains the odds of one universal constant being what it is is 1 x 10^55 power,
    the expansion rate of the universe. Any faster and it would be too fast for elements, stars and galaxies to form; any slower and the universe would have collapsed in on itself.

    This is the equivalent of rolling the dice coming up 6's seventy times is a row. If you saw that happen, you would not think random chance but someone fixed the dice.
    In short, a rational person should not have enough faith to be an atheist.

     
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2021
  13. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Is Genesis Real? - Starlight Problem (Problem of Time)

    In the movie Is Genesis Real? there are are dozens of PhD's in many fields of science interviewed, from Astronomy, Paleontology, Archeology, Ancient Hebrew, Biology, Geology & Genetics. The two schools of thought explored are the traditionalists and the Biblical time advocates. The so called traditionalists are those who accept a Godless model to explain what we observe. One of the interesting points is how the set of facts for both schools are the same. The difference is how to explain the evidence we observe.

    The movie opens in the Grand Canyon where sediment rock layer deposit is clearly apparent. The so called traditionalists explain the Grand Canyon itself and the sediment rock layer deposits in a model of SLOW CHANGE (small water), LONG TIME. The Biblical time advocates use a RAPID CHANGE (Noah flood, lots of water), SHORT TIME model. An important bit of evidence the traditional time scientists have no explanation for as you are looking at the sharp face of the Canyon wall is how come the walls are so sharp? How come there is no sign of erosion along the wall?

    Clearly, the RAPID CHANGE, SHORT TIME model fits the observed world better in that case. They then take a look into radioactive dating, what many traditionalists see as the death nail in the RAPID CHANGE, SHORT TIME model. A basic presumption emerges from the SLOW CHANGE, LONG TIME model advocates; that the processes we observe today are happening at the same rate as in the past. The validity of carbon-14 dating rests on this presumption. RAPID CHANGE, SHORT TIME model advocates do not make this presumption. They allow for processes to occur in the past at different rates than we observe in the present.

    And this is the Biblical answer to what is called the Star Light Problem. The problem goes like this. If the universe is roughly 6,000 years old, how come we see light from stars that are millions of light years away? Just like Noah and the flood, Creation was an even more enormous cataclysmic change. The rate of expansion of the universe is not linear or constant over time.
     
  14. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Is Genesis Real? - No Missing Links

    In the movie Is Genesis Real? they discuss the fossil record in great detail. A major point is the fact that while the general population thinks the term 'missing link' applies to only humans, it actually applies across the board. There is almost no fossil evidence of one kind of animal (such as horse) turning into another kind of animal (such as a squirrel). There is plenty of evidence of one kind of animal making small genetic changes to be a variation of the same kind of animal, such as color or size. Evolutionary biologists admit that the complete lack of missing links is a major evidentiary failure of the Theory of Evolution
    .

    Bible based scientists have a better explanation. God created the many different kinds of animals and allowed them to change to their changing environment (DNA 4D level of communication). Also see Counterexamples to Evolution.
     
  15. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Picture Centuries Before Photography Invented

    A video by the BBC explains how the 1988 carbon dating sample of the Shroud of Turin was contaminated. The sample area was from a strip later sewn back on the shroud that is now believed to be have beed used as a rope to originally secure the body to the shroud.

    Carbon-14 in the air can cling to the surface of old fabric and they estimate 2% of the surface being contaminated would alter the results. Although originally dated to 1326, there is a historical account of a shroud being displayed every Friday in the Christian capital Constantinople in the 1100's. Forensic analysis compares the blood stains of Sudarium of Oviedo, whose whereabout where positively known since at least 400 AD. Showing the importance of not relying on any one branch of science, the conclusion that the shroud is the actual burial cloth of Christ rests on these 8 bits of evidence.

    1. Replica cannot be recreated
    2. Image is 3D (only such image on Earth)
    3. Matches Sudarium of Oviedo Blood Stains
    4. New Studies on Age
    5. Forensic Analysis
    6. Pollen Grains
    7. Coins Minted by Pontius Pilate
    8. AB Blood


    New test dates Shroud of Turin to era of Christ. The Shroud is a negative of a negative. But the most intriguing question, even given the least reliable data of 1326 is, how did the image of the man get put on the shroud centuries before photography was invented? Some estimate the radiation to produce the image in 3D would need to be nearly 1,000 x stronger than the sun and such a burst of radiation would have to be generated in 0.2 seconds. Man does not have the ability even now in the 21st century to generate this radiation signature.

    There is no non-supernatural explanation for this observed phenomena.

    One of the principles of science is that an explanation for what is observed has to yield to better explanations. One cannot legitimately call themselves a scientist or following the science but hold to 'no explanation' in light of an explanation one does not want to admit, an explanation involving the supernatural.
     
  16. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Photograph of the Moment of Resurrection

    Upon seeing this evidence last night, I could hardly sleep. A video called The new astonishing phenomenon detected on the Shroud by International Institute For Advanced Studies of Space Representation Science, Palermo Italy found the Shroud of Turin is not a single image but a superimposition of many images. The highly technical and dry video uses phrases like, 'reconciliation shows orthogonal projection from the body onto the cloth, which does not occur in nature.' This means that IF the source of radiation were external to the body, the image would be distorted as radiation moves in waves and is seen in circumference patterns. The orthogonal projection (linear) from the body onto the cloth can only mean one thing; the source of radiation is from within the body.

    One odd thing is the video concludes the body was placed in the prone position (face down). At 40-47 minutes of the video it details 4 areas of clear movement and multiple bursts of radiation to show the movement.

    1. The legs are incongruent with the soles of the feet.
    2. multiple location of inanimate objects (falling with gravity)
    3. the hands moved in union with the chest (breath)
    4. Nail in foot retracted as foot rotated 90 degrees.
    That the legs are incongruent with the soles of the feet means the radiation projected the legs onto the cloth before the feet. The feet rotated and then another burst of radiation projected the new location of the sole of the feet onto the cloth. My guess is that unbelievers will simply ignore this evidence.


     
  17. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    I did not want to turn to Scripture so soon but came across these verses that indicate Biblical times was an evidence based culture compared to today's emphasis on believing without evidence, which goes against the intelligentsia.



    This, the first of Yeshua’s miraculous signs, he did at Kanah in the Galil; he manifested his glory, and his talmidim came to trust in him. John 2:11 (CJB)

    So the Judeans confronted him by asking him, “What miraculous sign can you show us to prove you have the right to do all this?” John 2:18

    “Rabbi, we know it is from God that you have come as a teacher; for no one can do these miracles you perform unless God is with him.” John 3:2

    But there are also many other things Yeshua did; and if they were all to be recorded, I don’t think the whole world could contain the books that would have to be written! John 21:25
     
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