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Exodus 34:6-7, The Character of God.

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics Forum' started by lukethreesix, Jan 17, 2014.

  1. lukethreesix

    lukethreesix New Member

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    Exodus 34:6-7, (Rotherham Translation), Yahweh, Yahweh, A God of compassion and favour, slow to anger, and abundant in lovingkindness and faithfulness: Keeping lovingkindness to a thousand generations, Forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, though He leave not utterly unpunished, Visiting the iniquity of fathers Upon sons And upon sons sons, Unto a third and unto a fourth generation.

    I believe it is vital to interpret all scripture in light of this passage. Why? It is the most quoted part of the Bible, by the authors of the Bible. And for good reason, here we have God the Father telling us His Name, the true Character of God by God Himself.
    Look at the first word used by God in describing Himself: Compassion. Wow! How awesome is that! Our God, Father, and Creator of the Kosmos is Compassionate. So much peace and we have only just begun.
    Favor: He has favor towards us. Grace.
    Slow to anger: that's not what we hear all too many times from the pulpit.
    Abundant in Loving-kindness: His Mercy is over-flowing with Faithfulness. It just keeps getting better and better.
    O.K. now we're getting to the good part: pay close attention to this next word...
    Keeping: that word describes something permanent. Ownership. Belonging to God is the thing He told us in the previous verse that is abundant, His Loving-kindness. Mercy. Forgivness. Forgiving transgressions, iniquities, and sins is something that is permanent with God. Look at the number He uses in context with His Forgivness...1,000.
    1,000: this is not to be taken as a literal number of those forgiven, but as something countless, never ending, everlasting.
    Next things take a turn (apparently) to a darker side of God. Here comes PUNISHMENT.
    But as soon as punishment is mentioned, look at the word He chooses to contrast "keeping".
    Visiting: a visit is of limited-duration. It has limits. It is something not everlasting, but will come to an end. That is the very definition of the word.
    Though He forgives without end, like a good father He can not leave completely (utterly) unpunished. Punishment must come, but will have an end. Correction is the reason any loving father "visits" the sins of a child.
    I love the next part! God is so good at contrasting. He used 1,000 to show the greatness of His Mercy and Forgivenes, so He uses the numbers 3 and 4 to show how insignificant His punishment is compared to His compassionate mercy and forgivness.
     
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  2. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    Ezekiel 18
    1. The word of the Lord came to me again, saying, 2 “What do you mean when you use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying:


    ‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
    And the children’s teeth are set on edge’?



    3 As I live,” says the Lord God, “you shall no longer use this proverb in Israel.

    4 “Behold, all souls are Mine;
    The soul of the father
    As well as the soul of the son is Mine;
    The soul who sins shall die.



    19 “Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?’ Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live. 20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

    30 “Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways,” says the Lord God. “Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all the transgressions which you have committed, and get yourselves a new heart and a new spirit. For why should you die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!”
     
  3. lukethreesix

    lukethreesix New Member

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    Angelina, you post scripture without any commentary? What are you trying to say?
     
  4. logabe

    logabe Active Member

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    Yes Luke... I see what you are saying, but man says God is a monster. If you don't
    repent He will not forgive you and as a matter of fact He will keep you in a tormenting
    hell forever into eternity. Now which is it?

    What you have just read is the character of God, but someone who hasn't accepted
    Jesus Christ hears the negative side of man and says I don't want any part of this God
    of the Christians, because He sounds like a tyrant.

    Now we know God isn't that way, but there are so many Christians misrepresenting the
    True God and His character it is hard for a lost person to comprehend His mercy and
    His Grace. It is always, "yeah but", and here comes the negative side which isn't no
    where near the character of God.

    Luke, I really like your post... we need more Christians like you.

    What a God! What a Plan!

    Logabe
     
  5. lukethreesix

    lukethreesix New Member

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    Thanx Logabe, Yes He surely does have a glorious plan! I believe someday, at the end of the "days" God will be able to look at everything He has created, when all of mankind has been formed into the image and likeness of God, and He will be able say, "Behold! This is very good." - Genesis 1:31
    I see all of creation being restored by the work of Christ. Is he not the potter? To tell you the truth, the big problem I have with an eternal/everlasting hell, is that it would keep sin, pain, evil, hatred toward God, filthy lusts, preserving all these like canned green beans on the shelf, only containing sin but never destroying it. I see Satan the victor in that, not Christ?
    From the first pages of the bible to the last page of the bible, scripture shows a God who will not keep his creation forever in sin. Genesis 3:22, God cast out man from the garden, removing the tree of life. Judgment is set: Death! The wages of sin is death. Price paid. Justice is met. But why did God take away the tree of life? Mercy! God said, lest they live forever...God is too loving and merciful to allow His creation to live forever in a state of sin, pain and regret. But that is exactly what the church today teaches hell is: a state of sin, pain and regret where one lives forever. Totally contradicting Gods judgment and character in this passage. Skip 1,000 pages and we come to the end of the book. Where we see "all things" created new and no more tears, the old ways are gone. We see in Revelation 22:2, the tree of life reintroduced, and its leaves are for the healing of the nations. In Rev 21:25, the gates of heaven are never shut, and in Rev 22:15, we see all those who were cast into the lake of fire standing outside the gates, and in Rev 22:17, they are being invited in to take the water of life. We see Gods grace, His love, and His patience towards His creation, the gospel never ceasing to be preached until all those standing outside, who were cast out and judged, come in and be restored. Which will fulfill so many scriptures like Isaiah 45:23, and Psalms 65:2-3, and Phil 2:9-11, and Luke 3:6, and so many more....
     
  6. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    Your post:

    I believe that my scriptural explanation is quite obvious. God has made a new covenant which is not like the old covenant where the iniquity of the Fathers are passed down to the third or fourth generation -
    ‘The fathers have eaten sour grapes,
    And the children’s teeth are set on edge’?


    Each soul is now accountable for their own sin's before God. That is all... :huh:
     
  7. lukethreesix

    lukethreesix New Member

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    Yes, I agree, but the point of my post was His punishment is a "visitation" a time of limited duration. As the Psalmist says, "His mercy endureth forever, His anger but for a moment".
     
  8. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    I am not sure what you are promoting here lukethreesix. UR? :huh:

    logabe said:

    ...is it really that hard to repent? If you understand God's commands why wouldn't you repent and live rather than not repent and die?
     
  9. lukethreesix

    lukethreesix New Member

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    He was being sarcastic...

    Have you repented of all your sins?
     
  10. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    Have you? :huh:
     
  11. lukethreesix

    lukethreesix New Member

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    Trying to...
    But I know if don't Jesus will finish the job of correction. My repentance is the working of His Spirit, not of my own labor. God has started a good work in me, and He is faithful to complete that work (whether here in this life or later in the next).
     
  12. logabe

    logabe Active Member

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    Angelina... I got a little sarcastic as Luke said and I apologize. My point is, ultimately God's
    goodness will bring everyone to repentance (Rom. 2:4). The church has been taught that if
    we don't repent in this Age of Grace, God will throw us away into the Lake of Fire and we
    will never have a chance to experience the Love of God.

    The church in general (not everybody in the church), teach that God will never restore His
    creation, but in fact, most of His creation will be lost in eternity, because man or woman
    didn't repent at a certain time in history. My point is, when God get's ready to restore all
    things (Acts 3:21), mankind will not be able to reject the Love that God has for His creation.

    That's what the church needs to start teaching the lost. As the church, we need to teach the
    goodness of God, so we can bring this lost world to repentance, just as the Bible teaches. We
    allow our carnal minds to teach us things that are the opposite of the character and nature
    of God.

    God is forgiving, God is long-suffering, God is merciful, God is a peacemaker, God is just, God
    is meek, God is righteous, and I could go on and on and on about the goodness of the Almighty.

    We are ambassadors of Jesus Christ as Christians (2nd Cor. 5:20), we represent the God of the
    universe and we need to represent Him in His right character and nature. That's why I like Luke's
    post.

    What a God! What a Plan!

    Logabe
     
  13. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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  14. lukethreesix

    lukethreesix New Member

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    Iforrest,
    Have you ever played chess with a really good player? They, by setting their peices in a particular way, can make you move exactlly how they want you too. Even though you have many choices to move, some how they always win. God can set His peices in a particular way that, even though you have the choice, you end up moving exactly how He wants you to. The entire chess board of life is Gods. He is the master!
     
  15. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    Your repentance is in accordance to the outworking of your spirit coming into agreement with the Holy Spirit as you submit in obedience to the will of God The born-again position is when your old man is crucified and your new man is walking according to the Spirit. This is a mutual agreement from the beginning when you asked Jesus into your life to be your Lord and savior and it is part of our sanctification process. You misunderstand labor as works but it is not works at all but the appropriate action when faced with the decision to choose what is right over what is unacceptable according to the Word of God and the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

    Shalom!
     
  16. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    i understand your analogy. But it denies the reality that some people hate God, and will always hate him. To them universal salvation would be a curse. They don't even want to play the game and would throw the board off the table.
     
  17. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    There is no salvation once the soul and spirit are removed from the body. Christ died as a flesh sacrifice. He cannot die as a spirit for us because his Spirit is eternal. He died as a soul for us because his soul was perfect in fulfilling what was required under the law of sin and death. It is a mans soul that will be judged in the end and not his body or spirit. A man's body is the vehicle which houses his soul and spirit. It is also the temple of the living God when we are born-again of the Spirit. A man's body can be remade by God but his soul is everything that the man is. It is his very essence.

    If a man finds himself in a place [whether that be in hell or purgatory?] what sacrifice for his soul does he have left? IF he did not repent while in his flesh...why would he repent while in hell?

    Note the story of Lazarus the poor man who ate the scraps from his masters table. When they died, the rich man went to what seemed to be hell and Lazarus went to Abraham's bosom...the rich man did not appeal to Abraham because he was sorry...he appealed to him because he was suffering....

    Blessings!
     
  18. aspen

    aspen “"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few

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    What a great thread!
     
  19. Angelina

    Angelina Prayer Warrior Staff Member Admin

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    Also note in the story of the "Rich Man and Lazarus" [Luke 16:19-25] that a great chasm exists between hell or hades and Abraham"s bosom [which is in heaven Matt 8:11] so that those who wished to pass over either way...were not able to do so. There is only one way out of hell/hades and that is via the judgment seat of God. Revelation 20:13....and they certainly are not being judged by what they did while hanging out in hades...

    Peace...
     
  20. lukethreesix

    lukethreesix New Member

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    There is a way out of hell (Jesus holds the keys, Rev 1:17-18 "Do not fear"). And in Rev 20:14, death and hell are cast into the Lake of Fire and die. They are no more. "For the old things have passed away and all things are created new. Death is no more and all tears are wiped away." Here comes the best part...Rev 22:2, the tree of Life is reintroduced and heals the nations, all those who were cast into the lake of fire are now standing out side the open gates of heaven (Rev 22:15) and are being invited in to take the water of Life (Rev 22:17).
    If there was no way out of hell, why would Jesus tell us not to fear because he has the keys? And how could those who were cast into the Lake of Fire be outside the open gates (Rev 21:25)?
    The judgment of God is for corrective purposes. God does not torture people, He restores them.
    Is there a hell? Yes. Is it eternal? No.
    Look at Jonah 2:2, Jonah is being afflicted in hell (hades/sheol) FOREVER!!! (vs 6) This word "forever" is the Hebrew word "olam". The same word can be found in Daniel 12:2, everlasting (this is the passage Jesus was quoting in Matt 25:46). Was Jonah in a place of everlasting affliction, or was he in a place of correction until repentance?
    A literal translation of Matt 25:46, "And these shall go away unto age-abiding correction...." - EBR
     
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