Ezekiel 40- is prophecy, and is of God's 3rd temple only

[WPM]

True.


Prophecy is fulfilled by what it says shall come to pass.

Symbols in prophecy can be interpreted for meaning.

The specific prophecies of Ezek 40- is not with symbols, nor by symbolic names as Gog in the prophetic vision of Ezex 38.

I.e. no prophecy but symbol only.

Prophecy can have symbols, but not prophecy is symbolic only.

There is no specific measurement of the temple and priesthood and Lord's glory in His house, that can be turned into symbols.

Prophecy that is symbol only, is fable only.

If the temple of the Millennium is symbolic, so is the Millennium.

Amillennialism.

If not, then it's just another version of Christ's Millennium, made by opinions of men.


You mean by opinions of yours that you say are required, since your opinion is that the specifics of the prophecy cannot come to pass, since you say Christ's prophecy will violate Christ's gospel.



Mere opinion with no Scripture stating so.

Your opinion about NT doctrine, leads you to opinion about OT prophecy, which leads you to changing the prophecy, in order to help Jesus not to violate His doctrine by His prophecy.

You destroy prophecy of Scripture to save gospel of Christ.

I believe prophecy of Scripture, and am shown by the Holy Ghost through rightly dividing Scripture, how the prophecy does not violate the gospel.

1. The law of Moses cannot be the law of the Millennium.

2. Offerings for sin are not outlawed by the Lord, except those offered to idols.

3. Burnt offerings were a smell of sweet savour to the Lord before the law of Moses, and they will be again during His Millennium.

4. The prophecies of Zek 40- will come to pass exactly as written, even as the prophecies before Ezek 40.

And so we conclude with my teaching of Scripture, which your reject, and your opinions about Scripture, which are yours alone.

Move into the NT instead of getting besotted with the old abolished arrangement. Consider the cross. It will change your life and theology forever. When Jesus cried it is finished, the old covenant sacrifice system was finished. This was reinforced by the ripping of the temple curtain in two. Christ was the final sacrifice for sin.

Hebrews 7:27 says of Christ and His final atonement, “Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.”

Hebrews 9:28 explains that "Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many.”

Hebrews 10:10 says, “we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

Hebrews 10:12 says, “this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God.”

Hebrews 10:14 says, “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”

There it is! Clear and irrefutable! This is the sacrifice to end all sacrifices forever!!! "Forever" actually means "forever."

Romans 6:10 says, “he died unto sin once.”

1 Peter 3:18 says, “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.”

Hebrews 9:12 explains, “by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”

Christ put an end of sin by this final transaction for sin, thus making an end of sin forever for those who would believe. There will never again be a sacrifice for sin. Christ’s atonement satisfied heaven’s holy demands and ensured that there would never again be another sacrifice/offering for sin carrying God’s blessing.

 

[WPM]

Proof that Ezek 40- prophecies have not yet come to pass, is that NT Scripture does not say they have.

Other prophecies that have come to pass in Christ, are said so by the apostles in the gospels and books and letters of the NT.

The old covenant is dead. It is gone. When Christ said "it is finished" on the cross that was the end of the old covenant arrangement. From a heavenly perspective the renting of the veil finished the temple sacrifices forever. Whilst Matthew doesn’t identify what Christ said before He gave up the ghost John does in 19:30: “When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.”

The continued practice of the Jewish sacrifice system and the strict religious laws that the apostate Jewish religious leaders enforced after Christ's death did not in any way negate the abolition of the old covenant at the cross. To say otherwise is to fight with multiple NT Scripture.

The book of Hebrews shows the removal of the old covenant arrangement and its replacement by the new superior covenant. Hebrews 8:6 declares (before AD70): “now hath he (Christ) obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.”

Hebrews 8:7-8 explains (before AD70), “For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.”

The old covenant was faulty or defective. It had many limitations. It had to be replaced. Those who suggest it was still active and useful between Calvary and AD70 undermine the cross and fight with clear and repeated Scripture.

Albert Barnes contends: “it did not contain the ample provision for the pardon of sin and the salvation of the soul which was desirable. It was merely ‘preparatory’ to the Gospel.”

The Preachers Homiletical states: “Not merely ‘free from defect’, but ‘incomplete’, unable fully to meet man’s case. The old system was complete enough for its limited sphere and purpose: fault was found with its limitations.”

John Wesley explained: “For if the first had been faultless - If that dispensation had answered all God's designs and man's wants, if it had not been weak and unprofitable unable to make anything perfect, no place would have been for a second.”

Scripture (before AD70) describes the old covenant sacrificial system as “that which is done away” (2 Corinthians 3:11) and “that which is abolished” (2 Corinthians 3:13). It makes clear: “the old testament … vail is done away in Christ" (2 Corinthians 3:14). Hebrews 10:9 confirms: “He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.”

The sad thing is: many Christians today speak on this subject as if the cross never happened. They talk as if the old covenant still exists and is still relevant today or in the future. They fail to see that it has been eternally removed and the new covenant has replaced it. This is why they get messed up when they get to this subject. They want to go back to the old imperfect arrangement or they want Israel to go back to the old imperfect arrangement. They yearn for an old-covenant-type physical kingdom that is focused on the natural, temporal and earthly.

Equally, they want to elevate Israel to a place that they no longer own in the New Testament. Many want to render circumcision (the sign of the old covenant) meritorious or advantageous when the New Testament says it avails nothing.

The fact is, on the authority of God’s Word, we are never going back to the shadow, the type and the abolished. The reason being: God was, and is, fully and eternally satisfied with the new covenant. It doesn’t need modified, added to or replaced. The cross did it all!

The old covenant was only a signpost to the new covenant – the substance, fulfilment and the reality. It simply pointed to the new covenant arrangement that was focused on the real Jerusalem (the heavenly), not Christ-rejecting carnal Jerusalem. The old has been eternally abolished.

Hebrews 10:1 (before AD70) makes it perfectly clear, “For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things."

The old Jewish temple in Jerusalem, which is now destroyed, served as an impressive physical, yet, imperfect temporal type of the living temple of God – the Lord Jesus Christ and His mystical body. It was the focal-point for the whole Judaic sacrificial system for many centuries.

Paul the Apostle addresses this in Galatians 4:9-10 (before AD70), asking, “now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.”

The New Testament writer is referring here to the old covenant ceremonial calendar. His contention is simple: why would a liberated Christian want to go back to the old elaborate abolished Jewish arrangement? This phrase “days, and months, and times, and years” refer to the many holy days, feasts and festivals that Israel had to carefully maintain until Jesus died on the cross. All of these were a heavy bondage to them. Paul despaired because some believers were looking back to the bondage of the old that was gone. This is so opposed to the freedom that comes in Christ.

The phrase “Ye observe” is one Greek word paratēreō meaning you ‘assiduously observe’ or you ‘painstakingly observe’. The word translated “weak” here (asthenes) means strengthless or impotent. The word interpreted “beggarly” in this passage (ptochos) relates to the condition of a pauper. It is derived from the original word ptoeo meaning fallen or flown away. The word “bondage,” which relates to the old Judaic system, is the word douleuo, meaning to be a slave.

As we piece these original Greek words together, we start to get a real sense of how the New Testament viewed the whole Old Testament ceremonial law. The old covenant ritualistic system has been abolished because it is expressly ‘impotent, impoverished and slavish’. The old covenant could not remove sin. It could never eradicate a guilty conscious. It was destitute. It has fallen and flown away. It has been rendered redundant. It is obsolete!

It has no ongoing purpose in the plan of God because of its weakness. It could never secure eternal salvation because it was not an eternal covenant. It had an expiration date. The coming in of the new perfect covenant removed the old imperfect system. When Christ came, He introduced “the everlasting covenant,” thus making the old temporal system useless. The shadow simply pointed to the substance.

Why would God ever want to bring back an insolvent and ineffective religious system that has been replaced by a perfect arrangement?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Proof that Ezek 40- prophecies have not yet come to pass, is that NT Scripture does not say they have.

What?

 

[robert derrick]

The only means of entry into the presence of God is the Lord Jesus Christ. There is no other way.

True. His priesthood of natural Hebrews and Jews will need His circumcision of the Spirit as well as outward, to come near to Him:

Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

Calvary has rendered the animal blood sacrifices totally obsolete.

True. Needless today.

Fulfilling prophesy tomorrow in His Millennium.

No Scripture says there will never be anymore offerings of sin before the Lord

The Old Testament system is redundant.

It's dead.

Why do men need animal sacrifices to cover their sin on the new earth when the blood of Jesus is still active

Because not all men will be saved, and it is for the law of His house and priesthood only.

and efficacious?

Rapacious scholar speak is such a boor.

Who or what is it that sanctifies Israel on the new earth?

The new earth is after the old passes away, which is after His earthly Millennium.

Christ is the final covering for sin.

I knew you were OSAS.

The blood of the Lamb is not that of a bull nor goat, that only covers sin from condemnation, but washes away sin without condemnation.

That is no doubt where you get your teaching also of calling the Lamb of God, just the last in a long line of bulls and goats.

Scripture says the Lamb of God is the one and only sacrifice of God Himself, not the last of animal sacrifices.

Your OSAS doctrine is false.

There is therefore absolutely no biblical warrant for resurrecting the old covenant Judaic sacrificial system

True. The law and priesthood of the King's house will be his own fulfilled prophecy of one.

outside of rebelling against the fact that Christ is the final sacrifice for sin.

The last great antichrist may indeed build a temple and ordain priests, to receive offerings for sin in the name of Christ.

This is a very serious matter.

True.

Your prophecy is false, as well as your hypocritical false doctrine of OSAS' last in line Lamb, that still only covers sin from condemnation.

The sinner's covering or sanctification today is Christ.

Sanctification is purging and separating from.

Your OSAS covering of a continued ungodly sinning, is false.

This Premillennial hope totally undoes the exclusive efficacy and sole propitiatiatory (or substitutionary) qualities of the blood of Jesus.

Scholar speak is pathetically booing and boorish.

I'm sorry

True.

but I am of the strong view that this belief totally undermines the still active work of the cross.

Strong opinion is still just mere opinion.

Those who suggest mortal sinners will inhabit the new earth

And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

As well as His Millennium kingdom:

Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

The mental utopia of a born again heaven and earth, is false.

 

[robert derrick]

What?

The OT prophecies that are already fulfilled, have been made known in the gospels, acts, and writings of the apostles.

Those prophesying Him coming that have not be released as fulfilled, pertain to His coming again.

Including Ezek 40-.

If that temple was the 2nd temple, Scripture would say so.

 

[robert derrick]

You talk such nonsense.

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts.

It's not surprising you are an OSAS believer in the Lamb's blood being the same and last of bulls and goats, that only covers your sinning, without stopping your sinning.

The Greek word for “Blotting out” here is exaleiphō (eks-ä-lā'-fō) meaning: ‘to wipe off, wipe away, to obliterate, erase, wipe out, blot out’

Oh boy. More displays of Greek.

These old covenant ordinances (rites and rituals) pertaining to the ceremonial law were obliterated at the cross.

True. OT dead, NT forevermore, and Millennium covenant to come.

The Greek word translated “holyday” here is heorte meaning feast or festival. Of 27 mentions of this word in the normally precise KJV, it is interpreted “feast” in all of them apart from here.

More Greek. Great.

The Living Bible says, “So don't let anyone criticize you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating Jewish holidays and feasts or new moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. For these were only temporary rules that ended when Christ came. They were only shadows of the real thing-of Christ himself.”

True today.

In the Millennium the nation not coming up for the feast of Tabernacles will lose their rain. The covenant of peace shall not extend over them.

This word “disannulling” is taken from the Greek word athetesis meaning cancellation. The phrase “weakness and unprofitableness” used here to describe the old abolished system actually reads asthenes kai anopheles literally meaning: feeble and impotent useless and unprofitable.

And a finishing flurry of Greek.

It is hard to believe that Christians would promote the return, on the new earth of all places, of such a hopeless discarded arrangement.

True. Only an amil pillar would say that.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Including Ezek 40-.

“Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.” (Acts 3:24)

Including Ezek 40-.

 

[WPM]

True. His priesthood of natural Hebrews and Jews will need His circumcision of the Spirit as well as outward, to come near to Him:

Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

Premils claim Old Testament passages like Isaiah 56:7 and Zechariah 14:16-21 for support that the Gentiles will be worshiping the Lord in the temple in Jerusalem during a future millennium. They relate this to the supposedly restored Feast of Tabernacles. The only way their argument can carry any credence is remove Ezekiel 40-48 as one of their proof texts.

The reality is, Ezekiel 44:6-9 proves that this is an old redundant promise resigned to the old covenant period, saying, “And thou shalt say to the rebellious, even to the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; O ye house of Israel, let it suffice you of all your abominations, In that ye have brought into my sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in my sanctuary, to pollute it, even my house, when ye offer my bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken my covenant because of all your abominations. And ye have not kept the charge of mine holy things: but ye have set keepers of my charge in my sanctuary for yourselves. Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.”

Your proof-texts contradict each other. Why? Because most relate to a by-gone day. Zechariah relates to the Gospel going out to "the nations" after AD 70. None relate to a bipolar future age of glory and corruption, justice and injustice, anarchy and order, deliverance and bondage, light and darkness, righteousness and unrighteousness, perfection and sin.

Ezekiel 40-48 is speaking of the old covenant arrangement and the old covenant age. This administration has been long overridden and fulfilled with the new covenant order where circumcision or uncircumcision means nothing. By locating Ezekiel 40-48 on the new earth the Premillennialist reintroduces the old abolished arrangement in full. This is deeply problematic as it resurrects that which God has removed and rejected. This sees the important prohibition of Gentiles entrance into the new earth temple.

These verses support the fact that this is speaking of the old covenant arrangement and the old covenant age. This administration has been long overridden and fulfilled with the new covenant order where circumcision or uncircumcision means nothing. By locating Ezekiel 40-48 on the new earth the Premillennialist reintroduces the old abolished arrangement in full. This is deeply problematic as it resurrects that which God has removed and rejected. This sees the important prohibition of Gentiles entrance into the new earth temple. In the Premillennialist scheme, circumcision will also be reintroduced as a sign of the favour and acceptance of God in the physical temple in Jerusalem after Christ’s Coming. This idea is extraordinary because since the cross physical appearance means nothing to how God views men.

I Corinthians 7:17 declares, “Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing"

Galatians 5:2 declares, “if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing."

Galatians 5:5 declares, "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love."

Galatians 6:15 reinforces that, saying, “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.”

Colossians 3:11 declares, “there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."

Romans 2:28-29 plainly states, “For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter.”

Galatians 6:13 declares, “For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh. But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ"

Paul explains in Philippians 3:3, speaking of the Church, “For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the Spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.”

Here we have it! We the redeemed Church are the true circumcision today. That is Scripture speaking, not man's opinion.

Colossians 2:9-14 declares, “For in [Christ] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross"

One’s Jewishness alone carries no special advantage in the new covenant. That automatically causes a query: who are the “the children of God” today? Who are “Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise”?

Galatians 3:26-29 provides the answer to this (again speaking to the Gentile church in Galatia), saying, “For ye are all the children of the God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”

Again, some would try and take us back to the abolished old covenant administration on the new earth.

 

[WPM]

The new earth is after the old passes away, which is after His earthly Millennium.

Exactly. That is at the second coming. This forbids the Premil theory. You see double in every doctrine and every event. That is why you are so confused.

The new heaven and new earth arrive at the second coming. Isaiah 34:1-4, 8: “Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree … For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.”

This is total destruction – for who and what is left behind. This is talking about the topography of the physical earth and starry host being totally destroyed. There are no survivors!

Isaiah 34 is speaking about the physical change that affects the earth, heavens and elements when Jesus comes. Premil has to often change the meaning of Hebrew and Greek words in order to get that doctrine to fit. Premil explains away the literal meaning of text after text and replaces with its alternative definition. This is not the way that Scripture should be approached. This is classic eisegesis. There is so much Scripture that forbids the Premil theory that Premil is forced to spiritualize away the clearest and most literal of Scripture, ironically it literalizes the one book that is the most symbolic in Scripture (Revelation). This alone is grounds to reject the doctrine.

Joel 2:10-11: “The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?”

Isaiah 13:9-11: “Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars (kowkab) of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.”

The current universe and stars are all going to be changed when He comes. Christ will be the eternal light on the new earth!

The whole description indicates this corrupt earth and the heavens (outer space) we know now will be no more.

The 3 gospels writers also testified the same.

Jesus said in Matthew 24:29-30, 35-36: “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory … Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.”

Jesus said in Mark 13:24-26, 31-32: “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars (aster) of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory … Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.”

Jesus said in Luke 21:25-27, 33-36: “And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars (astron); and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory … Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”

 

[WPM]

The new earth is after the old passes away, which is after His earthly Millennium.

Romans 8:19-23 states, “For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption (phthora or decay) into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.”

There is a direct connection between the liberation of “creation” and the liberation of the “sons of God.” Both the creature and creation are waiting for “the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body” – or resurrection day. This is the day when both will simultaneously be delivered from the aforementioned “bondage of corruption.” The day of redemption is shown throughout Scripture to be the second coming of Christ. It is there is that man experiences the final part of redemption – the redemption of his body.

Premils have no answer to the fact that Scripture shows the regeneration of the earth, heavens and elements to occur at Christ's return, not after some imaginary future millennial kingdom blighted with sin and sinners, dying and crying, corruption and crime, war and terror of the Premil scenario, including the pointless slaughter of countless innocent animals during that period.

The fact is: sin, death, disease, Satan, the wicked, wickedness and decay corrupt this current age, but are banished from the age to come at the end with the regeneration of the whole cosmos.

Peter said in 2 Peter 3:10-13: “the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

Hebrews 1:10-12: “And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.”

John said in Revelation 6:13-17: “And the stars (aster) of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

The whole description indicates that the heavens (outer space) we know now will be no more.

The current universe and stars are all going to be changed when He comes. Christ will be the eternal light on the new earth!

Revelation 20:11-15 – 21:1-5: “And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth [Gr. gē] and the heaven [Gr. ouranos] fled away [Gr. pheugo]; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.”

Read Revelation 21:23: "And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof."

Revelation 22:5: "And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever."

This current earth will be totally regenerated - making it a new curse-free zone. The earth will be restored to its previous pristine condition. These passages would sway me towards the position that this earth will remain - only in a new condition.

 

[Keraz]

Everything must be fulfilled:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 Now about the Return of our Lord Jesus Christ, when He is to gather us to Himself: I beg you, my friends, do not suddenly allow yourselves to be fooled by wrong teaching, or become alarmed by any so called prophetic utterance, alleging that the great Day of His Return has already come.

Let no one deceive you in any way, for that Day cannot come before the final rebellion against God, when evil will be revealed in human form by the man doomed to destruction. He is the adversary who promotes himself above every so-called god or object of worship and even enthrones himself in God’s Temple, claiming to be God. But the restraining power of the Holy Spirit ensures that he will be revealed only at the appointed time, because already the secret forces of wickedness are at work, secret only for now until the restraining Hand is removed. Then he will be exposed, the great deceiver of the ages, the one who the Lord Jesus will destroy with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the radiance of His presence.

This appearance of the wicked one is the work of Satan, it will be attended by all the powerful signs and miracles that falsehood can devise, all the deception that sinfulness can impose onto those doomed to destruction. All those people who refused to open their minds to the truth and so find salvation. Because they did not love truth or seek salvation, God has put them under a compelling delusion, which makes them believe what is false. Therefore, all who refuse to believe the truth, but have made sinfulness their choice will be brought to judgement.
Ref: REB. Some verses abridged.



‘The Return of Jesus’, The Return in glory, to commence His Millennium reign. Matthew 24:30, Revelation 19:11

‘That Day cannot come…’ The Return will not come until all the happenings prophesied to occur before that Day are fulfilled. Such as the Seal, Trumpet and Bowl punishments of Revelation, commencing in our time with the next event of a terrible fire judgement; the Sixth Seal. Isaiah 66:15-16, Zephaniah 3:8

‘The Adversary’, - That is: Satan, he empowers the Anti-Christ, who will be the leader of the forthcoming One World Government. He makes a peace treaty with New Israel, [Beulah – Isaiah 62:1-5] as those who gather in the holy Land will not be part of that worldwide government. Daniel 9:27

‘God’s Temple’, The Third Temple, to be built by the new inhabitants of Jerusalem. Zechariah 6:15 It will be ‘a Temple of greater splendour than Solomon’s’. Haggai 2:9, Ezekiel 43:4

‘a compelling delusion’, Rom. 11:8. ‘Eyes that look, but cannot see – ears that hear, but cannot listen’, Deuteronomy 29:4, Matt. 13:14
This applies to those who ‘confuse themselves’, Isaiah 29:9-10, ‘you will stay confused’. That is: by believing false teachings, such as the pre tribulation rapture and AMillennium. Jeremiah 29:8-9, Zechariah 13:2

‘Brought to Judgement’, There are three judgements: Next: the judgement/ punishment of the nations. Then: at the Return, the destruction of Anti-Christ’s army and the separation of the ‘sheep and the goats’. Matthew 25:31-33
After 1000 years comes the final Judgement of all peoples at the Great White Throne. Rev. 20:11-14

 

[robert derrick]

‘a compelling delusion’, Rom. 11:8. ‘Eyes that look, but cannot see – ears that hear, but cannot listen’, Deuteronomy 29:4, Matt. 13:14
This applies to those who ‘confuse themselves’, Isaiah 29:9-10, ‘you will stay confused’. That is: by believing false teachings, such as the pre tribulation rapture and AMillennium. Jeremiah 29:8-9, Zechariah 13:2

I have come to learn from amils, that they are prophesying the last great false christ, as the second coming of the Lord.

They have the same spirit of the Jews that rejected Jesus, because they are looking for their christ to come and bring fire down out of heaven in their site, and destroy all people not like themselves: they want to see it for themselves. They itch for it. They would take great pleasure in it.

They consider all unbelievers to be nothing but trash for the fire, and they think not being believed, is like causing them 'troubles', and not being joined is like 'persecution'.

It's all about offended pride, at not being able to get everyone to be like themselves. It's a work of proselytizing, not of ministry.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

They're manner of spirit is petty and wrong. They don't want their christ coming again, to destroy only them warring against Him, and then ruling and saving many of them left alive.

They want everyone else wiped out, and then go directly to their born again utopian heaven and earth.

But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.

That is everytime He comes, both first and second.

 

[WPM]

I have come to learn from amils, that they are prophesying the last great false christ, as the second coming of the Lord.

They have the same spirit of the Jews that rejected Jesus, because they are looking for their christ to come and bring fire down out of heaven in their site, and destroy all people not like themselves: they want to see it for themselves. They itch for it. They would take great pleasure in it.

When Christ appeared at His first advent, the Jews imagined, like you, He would reinstate the now defunct earthly throne of Israel and reign victorious over the physical nation. Luke 17:20-21 records an interesting discourse between Christ and the Pharisees on the subject of the kingdom of God, saying, He was “demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come.”

Jesus answered “The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you” (Luke 17:21).

The Lord revealed, in His response, that the kingdom of God – His kingdom – was not a literal earthly domain neither could it be viewed like other kingdoms with their outward splendor, impressive power and magnitude. It was, rather, a spiritual kingdom, which could only be spiritually entered. The kingdom of God is not a physical temporal kingdom that can be naturally observed or enjoyed but rather a spiritual kingdom, which is spiritually entered.

John Gill says of this passage, “it [the kingdom of God] reigns, through righteousness, unto eternal life; and by it, Christ, as king of saints, dwells and reigns in his people. Now this is not to be understood of the Scribes and Pharisees, as if they had any such internal principle in them, who were as painted sepulchres, and had nothing but rottenness and corruption in them.”

Jesus, whilst speaking to Pilate shortly before His death, declared, “My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice” (John 18:36-37).

No longer would God’s kingdom be restricted to the physical nation of Israel. From now on it would be open to a spiritual nation, comprised of people from all nations, kindred’s and tongues.

They consider all unbelievers to be nothing but trash for the fire, and they think not being believed, is like causing them 'troubles', and not being joined is like 'persecution'.

Really? So, did God in Sodom and the other 4 wicked cities "consider all unbelievers to be nothing but trash for the fire"? Your arguments are so ridiculous and self-defeating. It would help if you thought them out first before spewing them out publicly online.

Remember, He is going to do that to all those left behind. You on the other hand want to reward the wicked for their wickedness at the end by inventing an extra-biblical age in the future for them to inherit and overrun as the sand of the sea.

You do talk some nonsense at times. Thankfully, with your constant avoidance and childish insults you push people toward Amil. For that I appreciate.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes, I'm saying Eze 40-48 is a *vision.* No question about that. And no, I'm not saying the *prophecy* contained in this vision will not be fulfilled. It will be fulfilled in the same way any vision is fulfilled, by what the vision means, whether through symbolism or not. Determining that the temple is symbolic is the question, and I come down on the side of "symbolic" for the reasons given. NT doctrine definitely proscribes the re-use of OT order and law.

Many Claim Ezekiel Chapters 40-46, Represents A Future Temple In A Millennium On Earth, Is This True?​

As clearly shown, Ezekiel Chapter 43 showed the temple "Pattern" to the House of Israel in the Babylonian Captivity let "Them" measure, Ezekiel was instructed to write the ordinances and law in "Their" sight, that "They" keep them, not some future generation as many "Falsely" claim

The temple seen in Ezekiel Chapters 40-46 is nothing more than the 2nd Zerubbabel Temple built 536BC after the Babylonian Captivity, where animal sacrifice for "Sin" was was instructed by "God", prior to the shed blood of Jesus Christ on Calvary, don't be deceived

Ezekiel 43:10-11 & 19-21KJV
10 Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.
11 And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.

19 And thou shalt give to the priests the Levites that be of the seed of Zadok, which approach unto me, to minister unto me, saith the Lord God, a young bullock for a sin offering.
20 And thou shalt take of the blood thereof, and put it on the four horns of it, and on the four corners of the settle, and upon the border round about: thus shalt thou cleanse and purge it.
21 Thou shalt take the bullock also of the sin offering, and he shall burn it in the appointed place of the house, without the sanctuary.

 

[strepho]

Ezekiel chapter 40 to 48 is about the millennium temple, Zadok, that's God's Elect. When Jesus returns 7th trump to Jerusalem. Jesus will establish a new temple. Jesus and the Zadok are inside the temple. The saints are God's elect, Zadok. This is time of teaching and discipline for the spirtualty dead. Back in the 6th trump, flesh, majority worshipped antichrist. When the millennium begins, the spirituality dead must be taught during millennium. Isaiah 65:9. And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of judah and inheritor of My mountains: And Mine Elect shall inherit it, and My servants shall dwell there. God's election are priests, called Zadok during millennium. Jesus is king of kings and Lord of lords. The Zadok will be administration. Judges, priests and ambassadors to gentile nations. Those with free will have to wait until millennium is over to have access to Jesus. The election are predestined, chosen before foundation of the world. Their destiny is to rule with Jesus during the millennium.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I have come to learn from amils, that they are prophesying the last great false christ

Jesus will establish a new temple.

 

[Timtofly]

Where in the New Testament is this new temple spoken of in the millennium?

Please quote it.

"And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth."

 

[Timtofly]

The old has gone.

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

 

[WPM]

"And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth."

There is no mention of a thousand years there. It seems like you feel the liberty to dump any passage you wish into your imaginary future millennium. This is a classic sign of false doctrine.

 

[Timtofly]

There is no mention of a thousand years there. It seems like you feel the liberty to dump any passage you wish into your imaginary future millennium. This is a classic sign of false doctrine.

It is the temple at the Second Coming. It is you who gets the Second Coming wrong as the Day of the Lord.

This Temple in Revelation 11 has not been built yet. It has not existed in the past. It has not been trampled under foot by the Gentiles for 42 months. It will still be standing during the reign mentioned in Revelation 20, because Revelation 11 happens chronologically between now and Revelation 20.

This verse is about a temple mentioned in the NT that has not been built ever in the past. John did not have a temple to even measure in 90AD. John was measuring the Temple that he was taking to by the Spirit to the Lord's Day. It was not a dream. John was actually there and literally measuring the temple.

"And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."

This holy city is on earth, and is called Jerusalem. So that is where John was measuring the temple of God. The same temple Satan would take over and proclaim himself, "God". The poster wanted a verse.

Unless John was tape measuring every living being as a personal temple, John had a rod that measures a literal temple. I am sure you have some way to convince people a rod like a reed, is symbolic of a tape measure for fitting garments over a human body.