(preciousmessage;22156)
(thesuperjag;22111)
(preciousmessage;22083)
(thesuperjag;22080)
Ezekiel 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. Ecclesiastes 12:7 - Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Jag
Correct, the soul that sins shall die, not live for eternity. ... We are all created by God, we are not our own, if one believes or does not believe. ... Not sure what you are trying to convey, although I will say that since the spirit returns to God, do those who perish still have a spirit for eternity? Does the spirit of man, which God says returns to Him ... does He return it again to those who perish an everlasting destruction? Sorry Jag, please expound those scriptures for me. Thanks, JakeI am only saying that God created our souls WAY long before he created our flesh body. As our flesh body will return to the ground, as our soul will return to the Father whom gave it. JagHi Jag, I can only stick close to God's word. Again, The Hebrew expression translated "living soul" in [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Genesis+2%3A7]Genesis 2:7[/url] is nephesh; it is used in several other places in Genesis 1 and 2 as well as throughout the Old Testament and in many of these passages it refers to animals. For the sake of carrying out your idea that the soul returns to heaven, which you state is separate from the body, then the only conclusion is that the animal's have a soul, separate from their bodies. There was a reason God raised up men like Martin Luther after the order of the Dark Ages of the Roman Catholic Church, Luther states: That the bread and wine are transubstantiated in the sacrament; that the essence of God neither generates nor is generated; that the soul is the substantial form of the human body that he [the pope] is emperor of the world and king of heaven, and earthly god; that the soul is immortal; and all these endless monstrosities in the Roman dunghill of decretals—in order that such as his faith is, such may be his gospel, such also his faithful, and such his church, and that the lips may have suitable lettuce and the lid may be worthy of the dish.—Martin Luther, Assertio Omnium Articulorum M. Lutheri per Bullam Leonis X. Novissimam Damnatorum (Assertion of all the articles of M. Luther condemned by the latest Bull of Leo X), article 27, Weimar edition of Luther's Works, vol. 7, pp. 131, 132 (a point-by-point exposition of his position, written Dec. 1, 1520, in response to requests for a fuller treatment than that given in his Adversus execrabilem Antichristi Bullam, and Wider die Bulle des Endchrists). William Tyndale, translator of the Bible into English, martyr: And ye, in putting them [the departed souls] in heaven, hell, and purgatory, destroy the arguments wherewith Christ and Paul prove the resurrection.... And again, if the souls be in heaven, tell me why they be not in as good case as the angels be? And then what cause is there of the resurrection?—William Tyndale, An Answer to Sir Thomas More's Dialogue (Parker's 1850 reprint), bk. 4, ch. 4, pp. 180, 181. Tyndale went to the heart of the issue: The true faith putteth [setteth forth] the resurrection, which we be warned to look for every hour. The heathen philosophers, denying that, did put [set forth] that the souls did ever live. And the pope joineth the spiritual doctrine of Christ and the fleshly doctrine of philosophers together; things so contrary that they cannot agree, no more than the Spirit and the flesh do in a Christian man. And because the fleshly-minded pope consenteth unto heathen doctrine, therefore he corrupteth the Scripture to stablish it.—lbid., p. 180. Tyndale in a sarcastic vein: "Nay, Paul, thou art unlearned; go to Master More, and learn a new way. We be not most miserable, though we rise not again; for our souls go to heaven as soon as we be dead, and are there in as great joy as Christ that is risen again." And I marvel that Paul had not comforted the Thessalonians with that doctrine, if he had wist [known] it, that the souls of their dead had been in joy; as he did with the resurrection, that their dead should rise again. If the souls be in heaven, in as great glory as the angels, after your doctrine, shew me what cause should be of the resurrection)—Ibid. LEO X 1513-1521, The Human Soul (against the Neo-Aristotelians)1 [From the Bull "Apostolici Regiminis" (Session VIII), Dec. 19, 1513] Since in our days (and we painfully bring this up) the sower of cockle, ancient enemy of the human race, has dared to disseminate and advance in the field of the Lord a number of pernicious errors, always rejected by the faithful, especially concerning the nature of the rational soul, namely, that it is mortal, or one in all men, and some rashly philosophizing affirmed that this is true at least according to philosophy, in our desire to offer suitable remedies against a plague of this kind, with the approval of this holy Council, we condemn and reject all who assert that the intellectual soul is mortal, or is one in all men, and those who cast doubt on these truths, since it [the soul] is not only truly in itself and essentially the form of the human body, as was defined in the canon of Pope. End Quote JakeLots of commentary you have there Jake. Without the soul, can the flesh live? Do you honestly believe that souls are in Hell before Judgement Day before they were judged? The Lake of Fire is where the souls die. It is called the second death. Revelation 20:14, Revelation 21:18) It's clear that not yet a soul died. As the first soul (which is Satan) damned to that Lake of Fire. (Ezekiel 28:18) (It doesn't exist yet)John 11:25 - Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:Jag
(thesuperjag;22111)
(preciousmessage;22083)
(thesuperjag;22080)
Ezekiel 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. Ecclesiastes 12:7 - Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Jag
Correct, the soul that sins shall die, not live for eternity. ... We are all created by God, we are not our own, if one believes or does not believe. ... Not sure what you are trying to convey, although I will say that since the spirit returns to God, do those who perish still have a spirit for eternity? Does the spirit of man, which God says returns to Him ... does He return it again to those who perish an everlasting destruction? Sorry Jag, please expound those scriptures for me. Thanks, JakeI am only saying that God created our souls WAY long before he created our flesh body. As our flesh body will return to the ground, as our soul will return to the Father whom gave it. JagHi Jag, I can only stick close to God's word. Again, The Hebrew expression translated "living soul" in [url="http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&version=KJV&passage=Genesis+2%3A7]Genesis 2:7[/url] is nephesh; it is used in several other places in Genesis 1 and 2 as well as throughout the Old Testament and in many of these passages it refers to animals. For the sake of carrying out your idea that the soul returns to heaven, which you state is separate from the body, then the only conclusion is that the animal's have a soul, separate from their bodies. There was a reason God raised up men like Martin Luther after the order of the Dark Ages of the Roman Catholic Church, Luther states: That the bread and wine are transubstantiated in the sacrament; that the essence of God neither generates nor is generated; that the soul is the substantial form of the human body that he [the pope] is emperor of the world and king of heaven, and earthly god; that the soul is immortal; and all these endless monstrosities in the Roman dunghill of decretals—in order that such as his faith is, such may be his gospel, such also his faithful, and such his church, and that the lips may have suitable lettuce and the lid may be worthy of the dish.—Martin Luther, Assertio Omnium Articulorum M. Lutheri per Bullam Leonis X. Novissimam Damnatorum (Assertion of all the articles of M. Luther condemned by the latest Bull of Leo X), article 27, Weimar edition of Luther's Works, vol. 7, pp. 131, 132 (a point-by-point exposition of his position, written Dec. 1, 1520, in response to requests for a fuller treatment than that given in his Adversus execrabilem Antichristi Bullam, and Wider die Bulle des Endchrists). William Tyndale, translator of the Bible into English, martyr: And ye, in putting them [the departed souls] in heaven, hell, and purgatory, destroy the arguments wherewith Christ and Paul prove the resurrection.... And again, if the souls be in heaven, tell me why they be not in as good case as the angels be? And then what cause is there of the resurrection?—William Tyndale, An Answer to Sir Thomas More's Dialogue (Parker's 1850 reprint), bk. 4, ch. 4, pp. 180, 181. Tyndale went to the heart of the issue: The true faith putteth [setteth forth] the resurrection, which we be warned to look for every hour. The heathen philosophers, denying that, did put [set forth] that the souls did ever live. And the pope joineth the spiritual doctrine of Christ and the fleshly doctrine of philosophers together; things so contrary that they cannot agree, no more than the Spirit and the flesh do in a Christian man. And because the fleshly-minded pope consenteth unto heathen doctrine, therefore he corrupteth the Scripture to stablish it.—lbid., p. 180. Tyndale in a sarcastic vein: "Nay, Paul, thou art unlearned; go to Master More, and learn a new way. We be not most miserable, though we rise not again; for our souls go to heaven as soon as we be dead, and are there in as great joy as Christ that is risen again." And I marvel that Paul had not comforted the Thessalonians with that doctrine, if he had wist [known] it, that the souls of their dead had been in joy; as he did with the resurrection, that their dead should rise again. If the souls be in heaven, in as great glory as the angels, after your doctrine, shew me what cause should be of the resurrection)—Ibid. LEO X 1513-1521, The Human Soul (against the Neo-Aristotelians)1 [From the Bull "Apostolici Regiminis" (Session VIII), Dec. 19, 1513] Since in our days (and we painfully bring this up) the sower of cockle, ancient enemy of the human race, has dared to disseminate and advance in the field of the Lord a number of pernicious errors, always rejected by the faithful, especially concerning the nature of the rational soul, namely, that it is mortal, or one in all men, and some rashly philosophizing affirmed that this is true at least according to philosophy, in our desire to offer suitable remedies against a plague of this kind, with the approval of this holy Council, we condemn and reject all who assert that the intellectual soul is mortal, or is one in all men, and those who cast doubt on these truths, since it [the soul] is not only truly in itself and essentially the form of the human body, as was defined in the canon of Pope. End Quote JakeLots of commentary you have there Jake. Without the soul, can the flesh live? Do you honestly believe that souls are in Hell before Judgement Day before they were judged? The Lake of Fire is where the souls die. It is called the second death. Revelation 20:14, Revelation 21:18) It's clear that not yet a soul died. As the first soul (which is Satan) damned to that Lake of Fire. (Ezekiel 28:18) (It doesn't exist yet)John 11:25 - Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:Jag
