Fallen Nature Testing

[Webers_Home]

.
The human mind consists of consciousness and sub-consciousness. The sub
area is where we our minds store suppressed thoughts, feelings, and
desires; in other words: things we'd just as soon forget rather than think
about.

For example: most Christians cannot admit, even to themselves, their
honest opinions about God because those opinions are not only
unacceptable, but also unthinkable. Those thoughts and feelings about God
are so disturbing that sometimes when one leaks out for us to contemplate,
it actually makes us wince, possibly even shiver; and sometimes even
momentarily close our eyes and grit our teeth.

I started this thread as a self-test for the fallen nature. The results are
useful only when people are honest with themselves. For example:

If you were a creator, and by means of precognition knew in advance that
the human life you were thinking about bringing into existence would one
day require you to exterminate almost the entire batch in a deluge-- men,
women, underage children, infants, handicapped folk, and senior citizens
(not to mention birds, bugs, and beasts) --would you willfully and
deliberately go ahead and bring all that life into existence anyway knowing
full well in advance that your own hand would eventually be killing them by
means of a massive die-off?

In my honest opinion (I assume we're all being honest here) no reasonable
person, with normal sensitivities, would ever knowingly jeopardize so much
life just so they could have their very own sandbox to play in.

• Rev 4:11 . . O Lord our God . . you created everything, and it is for your
pleasure that they exist and were created.

My opinion insinuates that the creator is an unreasonable person whose
sensitivities fall in the abnormal range. What does my opinion say about me?
Well; obviously it says that I test positive for the fallen nature.

• Rom 8:7 . .The sinful mind is hostile to God.

FAQ: I am sometimes secretly offended, even disgusted, by the way God goes
about His business. Does that mean there is no hope for me?

A: Heb 9:1-14 teaches that Christ's blood serves to sanitize our minds; and
we only have to undergo that form of sanitation just once and it's good for
all time; we never have to repeat the process.

FAQ: Christ's blood can stop my mind from thinking bad thoughts about
God?

A: No, you can expect that those kinds of thoughts will continue to be a
nuisance; but they will never again be a barrier between you and God. Christ
will make sure of that. The remainder of the ninth chapter of Hebrews bears
that out.

FAQ: So, how do I go about obtaining this mental sanitation about which you
speak?

A: That's easy. Find yourself a place and simply speak up, admitting to God
that you have a sinful mind and would like to take advantage of His son's
blood to sanitize it. It sometimes helps to cover your face with your hands to
give you a sense of privacy between you and God. I pray like that all the
time; it works for me.
_

 

[Nancy]

.
The human mind consists of consciousness and sub-consciousness. The sub
area is where we our minds store suppressed thoughts, feelings, and
desires; in other words: things we'd just as soon forget rather than think
about.

For example: most Christians cannot admit, even to themselves, their
honest opinions about God because those opinions are not only
unacceptable, but also unthinkable. Those thoughts and feelings about God
are so disturbing that sometimes when one leaks out for us to contemplate,
it actually makes us wince, possibly even shiver; and sometimes even
momentarily close our eyes and grit our teeth.

I started this thread as a self-test for the fallen nature. The results are
useful only when people are honest with themselves. For example:

If you were a creator, and by means of precognition knew in advance that
the human life you were thinking about bringing into existence would one
day require you to exterminate almost the entire batch in a deluge-- men,
women, underage children, infants, handicapped folk, and senior citizens
(not to mention birds, bugs, and beasts) --would you willfully and
deliberately go ahead and bring all that life into existence anyway knowing
full well in advance that your own hand would eventually be killing them by
means of a massive die-off?

In my honest opinion (I assume we're all being honest here) no reasonable
person, with normal sensitivities, would ever knowingly jeopardize so much
life just so they could have their very own sandbox to play in.

• Rev 4:11 . . O Lord our God . . you created everything, and it is for your
pleasure that they exist and were created.

My opinion insinuates that the creator is an unreasonable person whose
sensitivities fall in the abnormal range. What does my opinion say about me?
Well; obviously it says that I test positive for the fallen nature.

• Rom 8:7 . .The sinful mind is hostile to God.

FAQ: I am sometimes secretly offended, even disgusted, by the way God goes
about His business. Does that mean there is no hope for me?

A: Heb 9:1-14 teaches that Christ's blood serves to sanitize our minds; and
we only have to undergo that form of sanitation just once and it's good for
all time; we never have to repeat the process.

FAQ: Christ's blood can stop my mind from thinking bad thoughts about
God?

A: No, you can expect that those kinds of thoughts will continue to be a
nuisance; but they will never again be a barrier between you and God. Christ
will make sure of that. The remainder of the ninth chapter of Hebrews bears
that out.

FAQ: So, how do I go about obtaining this mental sanitation about which you
speak?

A: That's easy. Find yourself a place and simply speak up, admitting to God
that you have a sinful mind and would like to take advantage of His son's
blood to sanitize it. It sometimes helps to cover your face with your hands to
give you a sense of privacy between you and God. I pray like that all the
time; it works for me.
_

Honest and awesome. Love this post.

 

[DPMartin]

.
The human mind consists of consciousness and sub-consciousness. The sub
area is where we our minds store suppressed thoughts, feelings, and
desires; in other words: things we'd just as soon forget rather than think
about.

For example: most Christians cannot admit, even to themselves, their
honest opinions about God because those opinions are not only
unacceptable, but also unthinkable. Those thoughts and feelings about God
are so disturbing that sometimes when one leaks out for us to contemplate,
it actually makes us wince, possibly even shiver; and sometimes even
momentarily close our eyes and grit our teeth.

I started this thread as a self-test for the fallen nature. The results are
useful only when people are honest with themselves. For example:

If you were a creator, and by means of precognition knew in advance that
the human life you were thinking about bringing into existence would one
day require you to exterminate almost the entire batch in a deluge-- men,
women, underage children, infants, handicapped folk, and senior citizens
(not to mention birds, bugs, and beasts) --would you willfully and
deliberately go ahead and bring all that life into existence anyway knowing
full well in advance that your own hand would eventually be killing them by
means of a massive die-off?

In my honest opinion (I assume we're all being honest here) no reasonable
person, with normal sensitivities, would ever knowingly jeopardize so much
life just so they could have their very own sandbox to play in.

• Rev 4:11 . . O Lord our God . . you created everything, and it is for your
pleasure that they exist and were created.

My opinion insinuates that the creator is an unreasonable person whose
sensitivities fall in the abnormal range. What does my opinion say about me?
Well; obviously it says that I test positive for the fallen nature.

• Rom 8:7 . .The sinful mind is hostile to God.

FAQ: I am sometimes secretly offended, even disgusted, by the way God goes
about His business. Does that mean there is no hope for me?

A: Heb 9:1-14 teaches that Christ's blood serves to sanitize our minds; and
we only have to undergo that form of sanitation just once and it's good for
all time; we never have to repeat the process.

FAQ: Christ's blood can stop my mind from thinking bad thoughts about
God?

A: No, you can expect that those kinds of thoughts will continue to be a
nuisance; but they will never again be a barrier between you and God. Christ
will make sure of that. The remainder of the ninth chapter of Hebrews bears
that out.

FAQ: So, how do I go about obtaining this mental sanitation about which you
speak?

A: That's easy. Find yourself a place and simply speak up, admitting to God
that you have a sinful mind and would like to take advantage of His son's
blood to sanitize it. It sometimes helps to cover your face with your hands to
give you a sense of privacy between you and God. I pray like that all the
time; it works for me.
_

sorry, this only shows your entitlement attitude. you weren't entitled to be born, or live five minutes after you were born, your not entitled a "good" life nor are you entitled any favor of the Creator and Judge. you're not entitle parents that care for you or even a glass of potable water.

so your judgement of the Almighty who is the Creator and Judge of all things is irrelevant. see what the serpent said about the Lord God :



Gen 3:5　 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

hence the serpent thinks himself to be a judge of Lord God getting the woman to see what she thinks God ought to be like and isn't. sounds like the junk you just posted.　

 

[Webers_Home]

.
• Gen 16:5 . . And Sarai said to Abram: The wrong done me is your fault! I
myself put my maid in your bosom; and now that she sees that she is
expecting, I am lowered in her esteem. The Lord decide between you and
me!

Sarai attempted to take the high moral ground by insinuating that had
Abram been a real man, he would've seen that sleeping with Hagar was a
bad idea and refused. Therefore it was his fault for not putting a stop to her
idea before things got out of hand.

People accuse God of the very same thing all the time. In their mind's eye, if
God were really as wise, loving, omniscient, and all-powerful as He's alleged
to be, then He would never have put the tree of the knowledge of good and
evil in the garden to begin with; and when the Serpent tempted Eve, He
would have stepped in and put a stop to it before things got out of hand.
Therefore, they conclude, it's not the human race's fault for being what it is:
it's God's fault for not protecting us from our own stupidity.

From a strictly natural perspective; the accusation is a reasonable complaint
as I'm sure any of us would've done things very differently than how God
went about it.
_

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Regarding the forbidden fruit incident depicted in the 3rd chapter of the book
of Genesis:

• Rom 5:12 . .When Adam sinned, sin entered the entire human race.
Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone
sinned.

FAQ: How is it fair to charge the entire human race with the sin of one man?

A: I don't know.

FAQ: Why do I have to die for something I didn't do?

A: I don't know.

FAQ: I was made a sinner before I was even born?

A: Yes.

REACTION: That makes me angry!

RESPONSE: You should be angry, and if you're not, then I really have to
question your moral values, i.e. your sense of justice, and your perception of
right and wrong.

REACTION: Romans 5:12 is a mistake. According to Ezek 18:20, children are
not responsible for their father's sins.

RESPONSE: According to Deut 5:2-4 and Gal 3:17, the laws of God are not
retroactive, i.e. Ezek 18:20 was enacted too late to have any say in Adam's
life.

FAQ: Does my anger in this matter mean that I test positive for the fallen
nature?

A: You test positive.

• Rom 8:7 . .The sinful mind is hostile to God.
_

 

[justbyfaith]

.
• Gen 16:5 . . And Sarai said to Abram: The wrong done me is your fault! I
myself put my maid in your bosom; and now that she sees that she is
expecting, I am lowered in her esteem. The Lord decide between you and
me!

Sarai attempted to take the high moral ground by insinuating that had
Abram been a real man, he would've seen that sleeping with Hagar was a
bad idea and refused. Therefore it was his fault for not putting a stop to her
idea before things got out of hand.

People accuse God of the very same thing all the time. In their mind's eye, if
God were really as wise, loving, omniscient, and all-powerful as He's alleged
to be, then He would never have put the tree of the knowledge of good and
evil in the garden to begin with; and when the Serpent tempted Eve, He
would have stepped in and put a stop to it before things got out of hand.
Therefore, they conclude, it's not the human race's fault for being what it is:
it's God's fault for not protecting us from our own stupidity.

From a strictly natural perspective; the accusation is a reasonable complaint
as I'm sure any of us would've done things very differently than how God
went about it.
_

God has His reasons for going about it the way that He did.

You must consider that He is Omniscient and Omnipresent and that He knows the end from the beginning.

So, however He planned it, you can be sure that the greater good will be accomplished because He planned it that way.

Because God is good.

You should also take into account that the human race was God's second experiment in free will. Previous to us, there was the fall of Lucifer from heaven; and he did not even need a "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" to sin.

So, we cannot blame the evil in the world on the fact that God put a tree in the middle of the garden.

 

[ChristisGod]

Good OP and thought provoking.

In my flesh my natural mind wants to believe salvation is decided by us
In my flesh my natural mind does not like the Sovereignty of God over His creation
In my flesh my natural mind does not like to hear about Gods election/choosing/appointing some to salvation and not others
In my flesh my natural mind does not like that He is the Potter and I am the clay and that He has made some vessels for destruction
In my flesh my natural mind does not like that there will be an everlasting punishment, torture and conscious existence for the wicked in LOF.
in my flesh my natural mind does not like that all men are born under sin, slaves of sin, sin is our master under the god of this world

But in my spiritual mind I see that my flesh is not Gods ways and as the heavens are above the earth so are His ways and thoughts higher than mine. So I know that God is the opposite of what my natural mind in the flesh conjures up.

God is running the show and I'm just going along for the ride as He directs my path in life. Its no fun when we are in control after-all He is the Good Shepherd and I am just a sheep who needs His guidance and protection 24/7.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Ziggy]

I want.

vs.

I am content.

Phl 4:11 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.

If I were God..... your not.
If I could be like God... you can't

Adam found that out the hard way. They Adam and Eve "coveted" something.
They were not content with what they had.
If they were, they would have told that snake to go crawl under a rock.
They didn't.

Mischief is brought upon oneself. But it is a lesson which must be learned.
No one "wants" to take the blame for doing something wrong.
Not many "covet" being responsible for their own actions or thoughts.
The devil made me do it.
I believe God made the devil to be a scapegoat for our own sins.
Until we are mature enough to accept responsibilty.

Throughout your whole life you will be challenged "tempted" to take the easy way out.
Point the finger at anyone other than self.
The woman gave it to me, the snake deceived me.. they were not ready to rule the Kingdom.

Noah built a boat. God informed the whole world a deluge was coming.
Even the beasts and flying things and crawling things heeded the call, and came to the ark.
Most scoffed, basically ALL did not want to come to the ark because their deeds were evil.

God will make a way for you to escape, whether by confession or prayer to eachother or to Him.
He will put a candle in the darkness to show you the way.

But as the saying goes:
You can lead a horse to water, but you can not make him drink.
There was plenty room on that ark if they had just believed.

Hugs

 

[justbyfaith]

I think that even the spiritual mind recoils at the thought that God arbitrarily chooses people to perish eternally in the lake of fire and that they have no way of being redeemed because they were not "chosen"

Whereas in the Bible, we find that in the hypothetical situation where someone were to come to Christ but were not of His elect, He will in no wise cast them out (John 6:37).

 

[Webers_Home]

.
There's a significant element of difference between Adam's actions and
Christ's. Everyone gets slammed with the consequences related to Adam's
act; whereas the blessings related to Jesus' act are limited to the few that
are chosen from among the many that are called.

The above makes no sense to a reasonable person because if Christ died for
everybody, then why isn't everybody chosen? And if it's God's will that
everybody be saved; then why aren't they?

Christians have invented a variety of canned apologies with which to respond
to those kinds of questions, while in the backs of their minds struggling with
the lunacy of it all.
_

 

[justbyfaith]

And of course, if I testify to the fact that I do not feel that way personally, it must be because I would rather be whipped with a cord of nine-tails than admit otherwise. .

No, a person can feel that God is on the up-and-up and yet not be as strange as you seem to think that God is.

I wanted to bring up the following scripture up previously in this thread; I think that I will bring it up now.

Rom 15:3, For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me.

Psa 69:9, For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me.

 

[Webers_Home]

.
I didn't start this thread to discuss the pluses and minuses of various belief
systems, rather to discuss elements of the so-called fallen nature.

Most Christians will readily admit to the universality of the fallen nature; but
apparently believe themselves immune to its effects. But John pointed out in
his first epistle that if Christians say they have no sin, it means they are
failing to be totally honest about themselves, viz: their introspection is
shaded.

I'm convinced there is a day coming when I will be called on the carpet to
answer for myself. That is not the time for dissembling, i.e. to cover up
one's true feelings with pious platitudes and apologetic rhetoric. I want to be
100% transparent if perchance Christ asks me some very personal,
penetrating questions; for example:

How I really felt about God knowing ahead of time, even before creating
human life, that one day He would be destroying most of it in a deluge; not
to mention confining much of it in Hell and later on executing them via a
mode of death akin to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.
By means of precognition, the creator saw all that coming yet went ahead
and created human life anyway. How did I really feel about that?

How I really felt about being forced to get old and die due to one man's sin?

How I really felt about being made a sinner due to one man's sin?

How I really felt about God not stepping in to stop the Serpent from
tempting Eve?

When I gave some serious thought to how God goes about His business, did
I come to the conclusion that some of His ways are neither reasonable nor
sane?

I've no doubt that a pretty fair number of Christians are going to choke
when they're required to give truly honest answers to those kinds of
questions. Some are very good at snowing each other, but their snow jobs
won't succeed with Jesus because he won't be so much interested in what
they knew about certain things, rather, how they felt about certain things.
The poor creatures are totally unprepared for the psychological tsunami
headed straight towards them.

• Rev 1:12-14 . . I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. . . . his eyes
were as a flame of fire.
_