How the idea of Immortal Soul got into the Church

[Hobie]

God made man in his own image, but did not make him immortal or of the same substance that he possesses. Our Creator is composed of spirit and is eternal. Humans were made, however, out of the ground or organic substance that constitutes the earth. Adam only became a living being (but not an immortal soul) when God breathed life into him

The first lie, in the Garden of Eden, the devil wanted Eve to believe revolves around the concept of an immortal soul. Eve stated she was instructed not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil or else she would die.

Satan countered that God was lying and that she would not perish. We see that this lie has spread even into Christians today. God's justification for casting Adam and Eve out of the Garden was, "lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever".

If all humans automatically have a soul that is immortal then barring them from the Tree of Life would not make a difference since they would already possess something that would keep them alive into the future. If, however, Adam and Eve did not possess an immortal soul that allowed them to live forever, then God's concern about them acquiring this ability is justified.

Here is one of the best explanation I have come across and every believer should carefully go through it and understand how this deception came into the church from what can only be called pagan Greek thought. 'Secular history reveals that the concept of the immortality of the soul is an ancient belief embraced by many pagan religions. But it's not a biblical teaching and is not found in either the Old or New Testaments....

The concept of the soul's supposed immortality was first taught in ancient Egypt and Babylon. "The belief that the soul continues in existence after the dissolution of the body is...speculation...nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture...The belief in the immortality of the soul came to the Jews from contact with Greek thought and chiefly through the philosophy of Plato, its principal exponent, who was led to it through Orphic and Eleusinian mysteries in which Babylonian and Egyptian views were strangely blended" (Jewish Encyclopedia, 1941, Vol. 6, "Immortality of the Soul," pp. 564, 566).

Plato (428-348 B.C.), the Greek philosopher and student of Socrates, taught that the body and the "immortal soul" separate at death. The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia comments on ancient Israel's view of the soul: "We are influenced always more or less by the Greek, Platonic idea that the body dies, yet the soul is immortal. Such an idea is utterly contrary to the Israelite consciousness and is nowhere found in the Old Testament" (1960, Vol. 2, "Death," p. 812).

Early Christianity was influenced and corrupted by Greek philosophies as it spread through the Greek and Roman world. By A.D. 200 the doctrine of the immortality of the soul became a controversy among Christian believers.

The Evangelical Dictionary of Theology notes that Origen, an early and influential Catholic theologian, was influenced by Greek thinkers: "Speculation about the soul in the subapostolic church was heavily influenced by Greek philosophy. This is seen in Origen's acceptance of Plato's doctrine of the preexistence of the soul as pure mind (nous) originally, which, by reason of its fall from God, cooled down to soul (psyche) when it lost its participation in the divine fire by looking earthward" (1992, "Soul," p. 1037).

 

[Hobie]

Here is from Bible Scholar Samuele Bacchiocchi's study, "...Throughout human history, people have refused to accept the finality that death brings to life. They have tried to deny the reality of death by teaching various forms of life after death. A key component of this teaching has been the belief in the survival of the soul apart from the body at the moment of death.

In spite of all the scientific breakthrough, the popularity of the belief in the immortality of the soul has not subsided. On the contrary, it is spreading today like wildfire. According to a recent Gallup Poll, 71 percent of Americans believe in some form of conscious life after death.1 The popularity of this belief can be attributed, not only to the traditional teachings of Catholic and Protestant churches, but also to such factors as the polished image of mediums and psychics, the sophisticated "scientific" research into near-death experiences, and the popular New Age channeling with the alleged spirits of the past.

The result is that few beliefs are more widely held today than that of the "immortal soul." Virtually everyone is familiar with this belief. If asked, the average religious person would define the belief something like this: A human being is composed of both body and soul. The body is the temporary physical flesh-and-blood "shell" that houses the soul. The soul is the nonmaterial, immortal component that leaves the body at death and lives on consciously forever in heaven or hell (or purgatory for the Catholics).

Is this popular belief taught in the Bible? Does the Bible teach that we have an immortal soul that leaves the body at death and heads on for heaven or hell, or purgatory? The answer of the average religious person is "YES"! They simply assume that the belief in the immortality of the soul is taught in the Bible. Is this true? Absolutely NOT!..

The serpent's lie, "You will not die" (Gen 3:4) has lived on throughout human history to our time. The belief in some form of life after death has been held in practically every society. The need for reassurance and certainty in the light of the challenge that death poses to human life, has led people in every culture to formulate beliefs in some forms of afterlife. Such beliefs, as we shall see, reflect human attempts to achieve immortal life through human speculations, rather than divine revelation.

Egyptians' Belief in the Immortality of the Soul

It is difficult to pinpoint historically the origin of the belief in the immortality of the soul, since all the ancient civilizations held to some forms of conscious life after death. The Greek historian Herodotus, who lived in the fifth century before Christ, tells us in his History that the ancient Egyptians were the first to teach that the soul of man is immortal and separable from the body. At death the soul passes through various animals before being reborn in human form. The cycle was suppose to take three thousand years.2

Nowhere in the ancient world was the concern for the afterlife so deeply felt as in Egypt. The countless tombs unearthed by archaeologists along the Nile offer an eloquent testimony to the Egyptian belief in conscious life after death. They spent an outrageous amount of time and money preparing for life after death. They practiced elaborate ceremonies to prepare the pharaohs for their next life. They constructed massive pyramids and other elaborate tombs filled with luxuries the deceased were supposed to need in the hereafter. The famous Book of The Dead is a collection of ancient Egyptian funerary and ritual texts, which describes in great details how to meet the challenges of the afterlife.

Greek Philosophers Promoted Immortality of the Soul

The Egyptian belief in the immortality of the soul existed centuries before Judaism, Hellenism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Christianity, and Islam. According to Herodotus, eventually the Greeks adopted from the Egyptians the belief in the immortality of the soul. He wrote: "The Egyptians also were the first who asserted the doctrine that the soul of man is immortal. . . . This opinion, some among the Greeks have at different periods of time adopted as their own."3

The Greek philosopher Socrates (470-399 B. C.) traveled to Egypt to consult the Egyptians on their teachings on the immortality of the soul. Upon his return to Greece, he imparted this teaching to his most famous pupil, Plato (428-348 B. C.).

In his book, The Phaedo, Plato recounts Socrates' final conversation with his friends on the last day of his life. He was condemned to die by drinking hemlock for corrupting the youths of Athens by teaching them "atheism," that is, the rejection of the gods. The setting was an Athenian prison and the time the summer of 399 B. C. Socrates spent his last day discussing the origin, nature, and destiny of the human soul with his closest friends.

In the dialogue Socrates repeatedly declares death to be "the separation of the soul from the body" in which it is encased. His language is strikingly similar to that of many Christian churches today. "The soul whose inseparable attribute is life, will never admit of life's opposite, death. Thus the soul is shown to be immortal, and since immortal, indestructible. . . . Do we believe there is such a thing as death? To be sure. And is this anything but the separation of the soul and body? And being dead is the attainment of this separation, when the soul exists in herself and separate from the body, and the body is parted from the soul. That is death. . . . Death is merely the separation of soul and body."4 In Phaedo, Plato explains that there is a judgement after death for all souls, according to the deeds done in the body. The righteous souls go to heaven and the wicked to hell.5

This teaching found its way first into Hellenistic Judaism especially through the influence of Philo Judaeus (ca. 20 B.C. A. D. 47) and later into Christianity especially through the influence of Tertullian (ca. 155-230), Origen (ca. 185-254), Augustine (354-430), and Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274). These writers attempted to blend the Platonic view of the immortality of the soul with the biblical teachings on the resurrection of the body.

 

[Hobie]

Early Christian Church: Immortality is a Gift Received at the Resurrection

Christ and the apostles confirmed and clarified the Old Testament wholistic view of human nature, by teaching that immortality is not an innate human possession, but a gift reserved for the righteous and bestowed at the resurrection. Unrepentant sinners will be ultimately destroyed.

This view continued intact throughout the writings of the so-called Apostolic Fathers (Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, the Didache, Barnabas of Alexandria, Hermas of Rome, Polycarp of Smyrna) and in a conspicuous line of later writers such as Justin, Irenaeus, Novatian, Arnobius, Lactantius, et cetera.

Le Roy Froom concludes his 100 pages survey of the writings of the Apostolic Fathers (writers who lived closest to the Apostles) by quoting from a similar exhaustive survey done by Henry Constable, an Anglican Irish Priest, who wrote: "From beginning to end of them [the Apostolic Fathers] there is not a word said of that immortality of the soul which is so prominent in the writings of later fathers. Immortality is by them asserted to be peculiar to the redeemed. . . .

Innate Immortality Infiltrates the Church

Modified forms of the Platonic view of the immortality of the soul were adopted by Christian writers beginning from the latter part of the second century. The most influential promoters were Tertullian (155-240), Origen (ca. 185-254), Augustine (354-430) and Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274). We shall say a few words about each of them.

Tertullian: Eternal Torment

Tertullian is rightly regarded as the founder of Latin theology. He was born is a heathen home in Cathage, North Africa, and received legal training in Rome. He returned to Carthage at the age of forty and embraced the Christian faith after witnessing the courage of martyrs and the life of holiness of Christians. His numerous apologetic, theological, and ascetic works in Latin, have been very influential on Latin Christianity.

Tertullian was the first to formulate the teachings of endless torment for the wicked, by applying the notion of the immortality of the soul to the saved and unsaved. He expressly taught that "the torments of the lost, will be co-eternal with the happiness of the saved."9

Tertullian rejected Plato's teaching of the pre-existence of the souls, but he embraced his teachings that "every soul is immortal." He wrote: "For some things are known even by nature: the immortality of the soul, for instance, is held by many . . . I may use therefore, the opinion of Plato, when he declares: 'Every soul is immortal"10 Note that the opinion of Plato is cited to support the belief in the immortality of the soul. No attempt is made to validate such doctrine by the authority of Scripture, obviously because, as we shall see, in the Bible the soul does not exist apart from the body.

Origen: Universal Restoration

The influence of Platonic dualism is evident especially in the writings of Origen (ca. 185-254), a man who came to be acknowledged as the most accomplished scholar of his generation. He rejected Tertullian's teaching of eternal torment, promoting instead the universal restoration of even the most incorrigible sinners, including the demons and Satan himself. After a period of corrective punishment, all of them will be brought again into ultimate subjection to Christ.
Origen's teaching derives largely from Plato's notion that the soul is an immaterial and immortal substance. In his De Principiis (On the Principle), Origen repeatedly refers to the "soul" as a "substance" which partakes of the "eternal nature" and "lasts for ever." "Every substance which partakes of that eternal nature should last for ever, and be incorruptible and eternal."11
Since the soul partakes of the divine nature and cannot be destroyed, Origen reasoned that the only way moral evil can ultimately eliminated, is for God to restore even the incorrigibly wicked after His "consuming fire . . .throroughly cleanses away the evil."12

Both Tertullian's eternal torment and Origen's cleansing fire, are unbiblical teachings which are fatal to true Christian faith, though in opposite ways. One threatened an eternal punishment that God never decreed and the other promised a universal salvation that God never authorized. In Scripture evil is a reality of this present time, not an inevitable part of eternity. By allowing their mind to be guided by pagan philosophy rather than Scriptural teachings, brilliant men like Tertullian and Origen developed heresies that have undermined Christian beliefs and practices....

 

[Hobie]

This deception that man has a 'spirit', 'immortal substance' is surreptitious to the truth to say the least and even more, it opens the door to spurious views regarding the afterlife, and it has permeated the religious world with its false promises and claims. Moreover, it offers promises of multiple choices that can be made in terms of one's salvation and multiple chances in terms of qualifying for salvation. Spiritism, reincarnation and necromancy in ways such as the worship and consulting of the dead, are only possible because of this deception.

The Word of God is very clear on this issue, this deception is of false hope which negates the message of the wages of sin and death. Moreover, if man continues to live, in this false idea of an altered state, then there is no need for a Savior, or the atoning death of Christ. Satan has spread this false idea through the Greek Hellenistic thought that crept into the church and has been spread by what can only be called his underlings of high order..

 

[Nancy]

Hello Hobie,
There is way too much for me to read here but there is one thing I question: "lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever".

"If all humans automatically have a soul that is immortal then barring them from the Tree of Life would not make a difference since they would already possess something that would keep them alive into the future. If, however, Adam and Eve did not possess an immortal soul that allowed them to live forever, then God's concern about them acquiring this ability is justified."

What has come to mind is that, when God (after their dis-obedience) did not want them to eat from it again as then, humans will live forever evil...?

Who knows, perhaps God would have allowed them to eat of the tree of life if they obeyed Him.
JM2C

 

[Hobie]

Hello Hobie,
There is way too much for me to read here but there is one thing I question: "lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever".

"If all humans automatically have a soul that is immortal then barring them from the Tree of Life would not make a difference since they would already possess something that would keep them alive into the future. If, however, Adam and Eve did not possess an immortal soul that allowed them to live forever, then God's concern about them acquiring this ability is justified."

What has come to mind is that, when God (after their dis-obedience) did not want them to eat from it again as then, humans will live forever evil...?

Who knows, perhaps God would have allowed them to eat of the tree of life if they obeyed Him.
JM2C

Yes, and only in heaven will we have this again...

Revelation 2:7
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Revelation 22:2
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

God made man in his own image

That's why man lives forever... God made us like Himself

It's just a matter of WHERE... in Heaven, or in being tormented in hell with satan and his fallen angels.

 

[Hobie]

That's why man lives forever... God made us like Himself

It's just a matter of WHERE... in Heaven, or in being tormented in hell with satan and his fallen angels.

But man needed something to live forever..

Genesis 3:22
And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

But man needed something to live forever..

Yeah, God breathed the breath of life in to man... this causes the soul of man to be alive, awake, and conscience throughout all eternity

Man will either be in the Lord's presence, or in hell with the devil and his demons being tormented forever.

Annihilationism is yet another heresy being pushed by the SDA cult.

 

[Hobie]

Yeah, God breathed the breath of life in to man... this causes the soul of man to be alive, awake, and conscience throughout all eternity

Man will either be in the Lord's presence, or in hell with the devil and his demons being tormented forever.

Annihilationism is yet another heresy being pushed by the SDA cult.

So who do you know that is in hell, no one. Nobody goes to hell till the judgement so God shows His justice for all to see, and only then will they perish. There is no 'Hell' burning right now under our feet, its not what the Bible teaches, and the doctrine of never ending punishment is contrary to the word of God, because it maintains that the wicked shall have eternal life. If man was to live forever, why was the Cherubims with the flaming sword set to 'keep the way of the tree of life'?

Genesis 3:22-24
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

 

[Hobie]

As for the Annihilationism, many are seeing the truth, here is something I came across which is a very enlightening... '

Hell in Scripture​

The term rendered as “hell” (sometimes transliterated as Gehenna) is the Greek term geenna, which derives from the Hebrew gê hinnōm, which means “Valley of Hinnom.” Contrary to a popular and long-running misunderstanding, there is no evidence that the Valley of Hinnom was ever used as a garbage dump. Among first century Jews, Hinnom was best known as the site of child sacrifices to the idol Molech during the era of the kings (2Kgs. 16:3; 21:6) and where God’s judgment would eventually fall on his enemies. Child sacrifice so provoked the Lord to anger that Jeremiah prophesied God would destroy these idolaters in the Valley of Hinnom and would leave their corpses to rot. There would be so many corpses that there would be no room to bury them all and that the valley would be renamed “Valley of Slaughter” (Jer. 7:31-34, NIV).

This valley’s association with fire and judgment is the background for the term’s appearance in the Gospels, where Jesus refers to Gehenna as the place of final judgment (Jeremias). Twice in Matthew’s Gospel, Jesus calls it the “hell of fire” (Matt. 5:22, 18:9). In Mark’s Gospel also, Jesus describes hell as a place where the worm never dies (Mark 9:48a) and the fire is never quenched (Mark 9:43, 48b). When Jesus speaks of the undying worm and unquenchable fire, he alludes directly to the prophecy in the final chapter of Isaiah, which says:

“For just as the new heavens and the new earth

Which I make will endure before Me,” declares the Lord,

“So your offspring and your name will endure.

“And it shall be from new moon to new moon

And from sabbath to sabbath,

All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.

“Then they will go forth and look

On the corpses of the men

Who have transgressed against Me.

For their worm will not die

And their fire will not be quenched;

And they will be an abhorrence to all mankind.”

Verse 22 identifies the “new heavens and the new earth” as the context for the latter statement about judgment, indicating that Isaiah is looking far beyond the immediate events of his own day to the eschatological renewal of heaven and earth (see Block in Hell Under Fire). God promises to create a “new heavens and new earth” after the last judgment (Isa. 65:17). This new place will be a domain in which there is no more weeping (Isa. 65:19), no more untimely death (Isa. 65:20), no more want (Isa. 65:21–22), no more bloody conflict or evil (Isa. 65:25). It is a place of God’s presence and comfort for all of God’s people. “All nations and languages” will eventually see God’s glory and declare it (Isa. 66:18–19 NIV).

But the wicked will not share in the joy of this new creation. In fact, the worshipers inhabiting the new heavens and the new earth will be able to see that the lot of those who “rebelled” against God is very different from their own. As the worshipers leave the temple, they see the corpses of the Lord’s enemies strewn about what is most likely the Valley of Hinnom (cf. Jer. 7:32–8:3). Hinnom is the very place where Ahaz and Manasseh burned human sacrifices to the false god Molech (2Kgs. 16:3; 21:6), and it would explain why this place became associated with fire. These enemies will be separated from the joys of the “new heavens and the new earth” and will instead undergo the judgment of fire and worm (Isa. 66:24). The worm pictures the disgrace of decaying bodies left exposed after their defeat. Isaiah commentator Gary Smith suggests that the image may be growing out of the scene in Isaiah 37:36, where “the decomposing carcasses of the 185,000 Assyrian troops that were left to rot in the fields around Jerusalem when God defeated the army of Sennacherib.” Isaiah elsewhere invokes fire as an image of God’s holy presence (e.g., Isa. 33:14), and the fire may appear here as a just recompense for those who caused innocents to pass through the fire of Molech. In any case, both the worm and the fire are vivid images of the horror that is to come for the damned.

Jesus’s statements about hell are directly drawing on Isaiah’s eschatological vision of the final judgment. Jesus has named the place of final punishment “Hell” (i.e., Gehenna/Valley of Hinnom) after the imagery in Isaiah 66:22–24 and Jeremiah 7:31–34. Like the Valley of Hinnom, hell is to be a place of torment, fire, worm, and death. John the Baptist also accesses the language of Isaiah 66:24 to describe the final judgment of the damned as “unquenchable fire” (Matt. 3:12; Luke 3:17). In the Old Testament, God’s fiery presence has a binary effect. It sanctifies and guides his chosen people (e.g., Exod. 3:2, 13:21, 24:16-17; Deut. 4:12; Isa. 6:6-7), but it punishes and destroys unrepentant sinners (e.g., Lev. 10:2; Num. 11:1, 16:35). Just the Old Testament depicts God’s presence and wrath as fire (Isaiah 33:14), so also the New Testament uses fire to describe God’s hot wrath at the final judgment in a place called hell....

 

[Hobie]

...

The Nature of Hell as Final Judgment​

For most church history across every branch of Christianity, Christians have understood the Bible’s teaching about final judgment and Jesus’s teaching about hell to describe a place of endless conscious torment. This teaching, however, has become the subject of a great deal of controversy in the modern era in the West. John Stott has perhaps summed up for all time the visceral reaction many people have to the idea of hell as eternal conscious torment. He writes, “I find the concept intolerable and do not understand how people can live with it without either cauterizing their feelings or cracking under the strain” (see Evangelical Essentials). This line of thinking has led many people to question how eternal conscious torment can be reconciled with the ways of a just and loving God.

Some oppose the traditional view on exegetical grounds. Others express objections that are more theological in nature than exegetical. Herman Bavinck says, “The grounds on which people argue against the eternity of hellish punishment always remain the same.” Of the five reasons he lists, the first three are based less on specific Scripture than they are on human estimations of the way God ought to behave: (1) Eternal punishment contradicts the goodness, love, and compassion of God and makes him a tyrant; (2) Eternal punishment contradicts the justice of God because it is in no way proportionate to the sin in question; and (3) Eternal punishment that is purely punitive and not remedial has no apparent value. Indeed, it is such questions that Augustine dealt with extensively in his defense of eternal conscious punishment over 1,500 years ago (see Book XXI in City of God). Such objections persist today. What kind of a God would preside over a place of eternal conscious torment? Can the loving God of the Bible possibly be responsible for punishing the unrepentant in this way?....

Hell as Endless Punishment - The Gospel Coalition

Hell is a place of eternal, conscious torment for everyone who does not trust in Jesus Christ. Hell involves final separation from God’s mercy.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

 

[Hobie]

Yeah, God breathed the breath of life in to man... this causes the soul of man to be alive, awake, and conscience throughout all eternity

Man will either be in the Lord's presence, or in hell with the devil and his demons being tormented forever.

Annihilationism is yet another heresy being pushed by the SDA cult.

Wow, I just came across this from one of the brothers in another forum..
'
The idea of eternal torment is a PAGAN idea, not that which is presented in Holy Writ.

It was adopted into the RCC by St. Augustine and others as Vatican dogma BUT was rejected by the fathers of the Protestant Reformation five hundred years ago. Calvin Luther Zwingli and others among them. Since the mid 19th century Protestantism has gradually allowed the gospel to be diluted. The false dogma of everlasting punishment is one of them. God kills. God doesn't torture.

There is no place in the Bible where everlasting torture is established as intent of or result of final judgment.

In order to establish the doctrine of eternal torment one must PROVE that man has an immortal soul. The Bible doesn't establish that either. In fact, it says man dies like any dog or cockroach. Torture to punish an immortal human spirit is therefore unnecessary.

Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. - Ecclesiastes 3:19

The Bible says ONLY GOD is immortal. Man is thus excluded from possessing a natural ability to survive physical death.

who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen. - 1 Tim 6:16

Ancient Egypt established the idea that some part of man survived physical death. It was later adopted by the Greeks Romans and ultimately the RCC. The purpose of encorporating the doctrine was to promote fear mongering which resulted in increased membership and the authority of the Roman Catholic priesthood.

Myths of post-death torment were initially included in translations of canonical text by the Vatican. These deliberate alterations in the Biblical text were included in subsequent translations. Pope Damasus commissioned St. Jerome to translate certain portions of the original Hebrew and Greek texts into a single volume in Latin on or about the third century. This version is generally called the Vulgate. Five hundred years ago, protestant reformation nations of Germany and England wanted a translation of the Bible into their own language. The English version was called the King James Version, but was derived from the Vulgate NOT the original Hebrew and Greek. Certain idioms entered into the Vulgate version by St. Jerome were therefor passed along. Some of these referenced eternal torment. Here are a few errors:

Hell - the word is derived from old English and Viking myths about the underworld called "hel". Hel was not a place of torture, but simply a stage upon which were enacted certain mythical dramas.

Hades - Hades was the Greek god of the underworld. Like the citizens of hel, the people of Hades entertained their own forms of dramatic existence. Hades was a person, not a place.

Gehenna - Gehenna was an actual city dump located on the southwest side of Jerusalem. In this place was delivered all the refuse of the town by its people. Jesus' reference to Gehenna as the ultimate destiny of the lost was understood to be a shameful disgrace. Gehenna was also the place where children were once sacrificed by burning to the pagan god Molech. Biblical references to Gehenna were insulting if not completely disgusting. As a result it reflected God's opinion of SINNERS. THAT WHICH IS THROWN INTO the GEHENNA city dump IS ALREADY DEAD !!!

Sheol - Sheol was simply the Hebrew reference to a cemetery. There is no treatment of the subject in the Tanakh at all until the reader gets to the gospels where some very strange attributes are related. None of those have to do with torture.

In summation, there is no actual Hellish place of eternal torment mentioned in the Bible. Such a place would require an eternal spark in man that the Bible denies.

The destiny of natural man is death. The Bible promises God will endow his saints with His own immortal life, but there isn't even a hint that He will do so for SINNERS. Those who reject Christ will themselves be rejected. In God there is life forever. Apart from God, the sentence of the damned, there is no life at all.

In order to justify the RCC dogma of eternal torment two simple and easily understood words must be corrupted; death and fire. The quality of fire is to destroy and consume. Some types of fire are temporary and do not completely destroy everything it touches. The Bible says God's fire of judgment is eternal, meaning that it burns completely and destroys absolutely. The other word is death, which means total cessation of life. The RCC concept of everlasting torment MUST pervert the two simple words of death and fire in order to persuade the simple minded of its myth.

Considering the alternative of death, which is absolute for all living things upon earth, the GOSPEL delivers amazing revolutionary news. God has chosen to grant of His own life to those who repent of their SINs and accept the Lordship of Jesus Christ. Immortality vs. death is a big deal in any language on earth as indeed it has proved to be...

Hmm, much truth there...

 

[Hobie]

Here is another and look what it says...
'

Eternal Torture: The Silent Subject of the Church​

I read in a major news magazine that the teaching of hell as eternal torture has all but disappeared from the pulpit ministry in both mainline and evangelical churches. Why is this so? Why are Christians who are committed to this doctrine so reluctant to openly and honestly preach it? Why do they mask what they really believe by saying that the unredeemed will ultimately “perish” or be “destroyed” or suffer eternal “separation from God”? Yes, you’ll hear ‘hell’ thrown around now and then, but you’ll rarely, if ever, hear anyone explain what he or she really means by the term—suffering fiery conscious torment forever and ever with no merciful respite from the agony.

If this is true, why is everyone so timid about spelling it out loud and clear? The answer is obvious: They’re ashamed of it. They’re ashamed of it because, as Clark Pinnock aptly put it, the doctrine of eternal torture makes God out to be morally worse than Hitler “who maintains an everlasting Auschwitz for his enemies whom he does not even allow to die. How can one love a God like that? I suppose one might be afraid of Him, but could we love and respect Him? Would we want to strive to be like Him in His mercilessness?” (149). Let’s be honest here and tell it like it is: The doctrine of never-ending roasting torment makes God out to be a cruel, unjust, merciless monster. Who would possibly want to accept salvation from such a God?

Although there are many good reasons for questioning this teaching, the most important reason is the simple fact that the Bible does not teach it. Contrary to the loud claims of its staunch supporters, it is not a scriptural doctrine; and this is being realized by a growing number of biblically faithful Christians today. The Bible offers strong, irrefutable evidence to any unbiased reader that hell, the lake of fire, signifies literal everlasting destruction for ungodly people,* not eternal conscious torment.

* This view is often referred to as “conditional immortality” or “annihilationism,” but I prefer “everlasting destruction,” “literal destruction” or “destructionism” based on 2 Thessalonians 1:9 and numerous other passages. I consequently refer to it in these terms throughout this study.

This is the main reason why so many Christians of all persuasions are embracing the doctrine of everlasting destruction not because they’re “going liberal” as supporters of eternal torment claim. It’s a case of going biblical, not going liberal.

For clear proof that literal everlasting destruction is what the Bible really teaches, let us simply turn to the pages of Scripture; after all, a thorough, honest study of the Bible will always reveal the truth.

Life and Death: The Two Polar Opposites​

The apostle Paul summed up the whole matter of people’s reward for sin when he wrote:

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

Could it be stated any plainer? The wages for sin is shown to be death; and eternal life is a gift from God, not something people already have. This is consistently expressed from Genesis to Revelation, notice:

“Enter through the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad the road that leads to destruction and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”
Matthew 7:13-14
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”
John 3:16
For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
Romans 8:13
The one who sows to please the sinful nature from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the spirit, from the spirit will reap eternal life.
Galatians 6:8
The LORD preserves all who love Him,
but all the wicked He will destroy.
Psalm 145:20 (NKJV)
The truly righteous man attains life,
but he who pursues evil goes to his death.
Proverbs 11:19

All these passages clearly describe the two separate destinies of the righteous and the unrighteous. The “righteous” are people who are in right-standing with God because they’ve accepted his sacrifice for their sins while the “unrighteous” are those who are not in-right-standing with their Creator because they’ve rejected his offer of salvation.* The former will inherit eternal life whereas the latter will reap the wages of sin and be destroyed.... Hell: Eternal Torment or DESTRUCTION? | Fountain of Life

Sometimes its hard to understand what we are given, but we need to have a love of the truth and study and search Gods Word and pray that are eyes are opened and we need not be ashamed.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

So who do you know that is in hell, no one.

Go read the account of the rich man and lazurus and explain WHY you think Jesus Christ is a liar!

 

[Hobie]

Go read the account of the rich man and lazurus and explain WHY you think Jesus Christ is a liar! View attachment 42121

Lets look, the chapter starts...
And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man...

And we see...
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus,...

Its called a Parable, plain and simple...
Matthew 13:13-15
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

There was a certain rich man...

That means Jesus is talking about the experiences of an actual man...

As suspected, you claim Jesus is telling us fictional stories which makes Him out to be a liar.

That's to be expected by the Saturday peoples who don't accept the New Covenant.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

God made man in his own image, but did not make him immortal or of the same substance that he possesses. Our Creator is composed of spirit and is eternal. Humans were made, however, out of the ground or organic substance that constitutes the earth. Adam only became a living being (but not an immortal soul) when God breathed life into him

God formed His body and gave man an immortal soul.

Lazarus and teh rich man shows this.

also Paul declared when we are absent from the body we are present with the Lord. So man is more than a body.

Paul also calls upon a tri fold blessing to individuals. He prays God would bless us body soul and spirit!

As God is triune- man is trichotomous.

 

[Hobie]

That means Jesus is talking about the experiences of an actual man...

As suspected, you claim Jesus is telling us fictional stories which makes Him out to be a liar. View attachment 42138

That's to be expected by the Saturday peoples who don't accept the New Covenant.

So what of these...
Matthew 21:28
But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.

Luke 10:30
And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

Luke 14:16
Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:

Luke 15:11
And he said, A certain man had two sons:

We could go on, but these make it much more clear...

Mark 12:1
And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country.

Luke 20:9
Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a far country for a long time.

Luke 13:6
He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.

I think the point is clear...

 

[Hobie]

God formed His body and gave man an immortal soul.

Lazarus and teh rich man shows this.

also Paul declared when we are absent from the body we are present with the Lord. So man is more than a body.

Paul also calls upon a tri fold blessing to individuals. He prays God would bless us body soul and spirit!

As God is triune- man is trichotomous.

So Attila the Hun, Vlad the Impaler, Napoleon, Hitler, Stalin and every mass murderer and slayer of innocents known to mankind is immortal...... Got to rethink that...