False Teaching: Mary died a virgin. Biblical Proof Mary had children.

[Rella ~ I am a woman]

That's a really long post, with lots of addressable things. Let me start one piece at a time, okay?

At every Mass, the congregation is read from the Bible, and the priest has a homily to explain what that reading means. If you go to Mass just on Sunday's, you hear the majority of the Bible read and explained to you. If you do daily, you get most of it in one year. The readings are organized in such a way. Personally having a Bible isn't necessary. Keep in mind that previous to the last century, the vast, vast majority of humanity was illiterate anyway! What good would a system based on personal interpretation of Scriptures do anyway? See 2 Peter 1:20-21, where St. Peter warns against personal interpretation of Scripture. And look at what that approach has produced! Literally thousands of man-made, doctrinally contradicting denominations in the last 500 years (since Protestant was started.) That cannot be the grounding for the fullness of Christ's truth, because the truth cannot contradict itself.

Well, that may be so... Of family that had no bible... she died believing that you die. Period.

And she also laughed about 20 years ago when my dad said he for one was glad for Jesus' shed blood.

So her priest did not exactly do a very good job now did he?

OH, she was only a weekly atender.. not daily

 

[Sigma]

Well , I asked you if it bothered you that

"It is the official position of the Roman Catholic Church that Jesus’ mother Mary remained a virgin for her entire life. Is this concept biblical? Before we look at specific Scriptures, it is important to understand why the Roman Catholic Church believes in the perpetual virginity of Mary. The Roman Catholic Church views Mary as "the Mother of God" and "Queen of Heaven." Catholics believe Mary to have an exalted place in Heaven, with the closest access to Jesus and God the Father. Such a concept is nowhere taught in Scripture."

Such a concept is nowhere taught in Scripture.

And you ignored that.

So... a little pot calling kettle isn't it.

Of course you can go to confession for this sin and say your Our Fathers and Hail Marys that are doled out to you for your absolution.....

I will be relying on my Jesus' blood for mine

You have no idea how many of your protestants ignored my posts when backed into a corner they couldnt escape. All I've been doing for weeks is be patient, replying to question and argument, addressing every falsehood, and giving my all in every reply without dishonesty, without adding words to verses that arent there, lying, etc. You literally just admitted to taking Matt. 1:25 out of context and saying you don't care about that. Zero integrity. And yet you want me to answer you?? Give me a good reason for staying engaged with you if theres gonna be a double standard and no integrity

 

[Augustin56]

Well, that may be so... Of family that had no bible... she died believing that you die. Period.

And she also laughed about 20 years ago when my dad said he for one was glad for Jesus' shed blood.

So her priest did not exactly do a very good job now did he?

OH, she was only a weekly atender.. not daII

I would encourage you to read the parable about the sower in Matt. 13:1-9. Not everyone who hears Jesus' message accepts and heeds it.

Whether that family was well catechised or not isn't my call. There are many who are Catholic these days who don't bother to learn what Christ, through His Church, teaches. That doesn't subtract from the Church at all.

 

[Sigma]

YOUR SILLY BLOGIC =

that same little word "till" implies Michal certainly did have children after she died:
“Michal the daughter of Saul had no children till the day of her death.” (2 Sam. 6:23)

Again, that's the interpretation of that verse when we apply YOUR LOGIC, the same logic of yours you apply to this verse:

"And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son..." (Matt. 1:25)
"That little word "till" implies Joseph certainly did know her after Christ was born."

 

[David in NJ]

Again, that's the interpretation of that verse when we apply YOUR LOGIC, the same logic of yours you apply to this verse:

"And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son..." (Matt. 1:25)
"That little word "till" implies Joseph certainly did know her after Christ was born."

Again = Can you answer the 5th Grade level question.

If we consider the passage you quoted: 2 Sam 6:34: “Michal the daughter of Saul had no children till the day of her death.”
We SEE that the word "till" carries with it the SAME connotation = something occurred from point A to point B
Point (A) - "Michal had no children"
"till"
Point (B) - "the day of her death"
What occurred from Point A to Point B?

 

[Sigma]

Again = Can you answer the 5th Grade level question.

If we consider the passage you quoted: 2 Sam 6:34: “Michal the daughter of Saul had no children till the day of her death.”
We SEE that the word "till" carries with it the SAME connotation = something occurred from point A to point B
Point (A) - "Michal had no children"
"till"
Point (B) - "the day of her death"
What occurred from Point A to Point B?

You're an effing hypocrite for not applying that logic here:

"And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son..." (Matt. 1:25)
"That little word "till" implies Joseph certainly did know her after Christ was born."

You know why you don't? Because you'd have to admit you're wrong about your interpretation of Matt. 1:25 to a Catholic, which you don't wanna do. You'd rather persist in the sin of pride rather than stoop so low.

Until you admit you're wrong, then you're sticking to your stupid logic, which is this:

"And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son..." (Matt. 1:25)
"That little word "till" implies Joseph certainly did know her after Christ was born."

Therefore, according to your logic, the following is true,

that same little word "till" implies Michal certainly did have children after she died:
“Michal the daughter of Saul had no children till the day of her death.” (2 Sam. 6:23)

 

[Taken]

In Matthew 1:25 it doesnt say "till after" in the original language Koine Greek, nor in English. So, to read it as if it is is to insert a word that wasnt originally there, which is "after," and thus change the context of the verse.

It says KNEW her not till…
KNEW, reveals the KNOWING occurred!
TILL, reveals the KNOWING occurred AFTER the Birth.

Your friend @David in NJ said,

"And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son..." (Matt. 1:25)
"That little word "till" implies Joseph certainly did know her after Christ was born."

Therefore, according to hi logic,

No, Nothing to do with LOGIC of trying to figure OUT WHAT or WHEN…it Plainly SAYS, TEACHES….KNEW … and WHEN.

that same little word "till" implies Michal certainly did have children after she died:
“Michal the daughter of Saul had no children till the day of her death.” (2 Sam. 6:23)

No. It plainly SAYS and TEACHES the daughter of Saul had no children TILL … the DAY OF her DEATH.

My G-Grandmother HAD NO CHILDREN TILL the DAY of HER DEATH!
My Grandmother WAS the ONLY Child my G-GRANDMOTHER HAD. AND the DAY my Grandmother was BORN was the SAME DAY my G-Grandmother DIED.

You take his logic seriously???

You TRYING to MAKE a DEAD WOMAN Giving birth to a baby is YOUR TWISTING Scripture, which Says no such thing.

It is not a phenomena for a woman to deliver her first Child on this day, and then DIE from complication on that same day.

Catholic TEACHING rests A GREAT PART of their Entire Doctrine on Mary and she being a FOREVER VIRGIN. It was TAUGHT for Decades to Illerates. And for Decades Illerates Believed and Repeated what they were Taught.

Did NO Catholics EVER LEARN to READ and CHALLENGE the Catholic Church Leaders About Mary’s Purpose or Role or Necessity or Scriptural Verification….
* FOR MARY to NOT submit to her Husband?
* FOR MARY and her Husband TO NOT multiply?

I find it unfathomable in the passing of time, NO Catholics, Learned to Read, Read the Scriptures, and Discovered WHY Mary was Chosen, which had NOTHING to do with a “perpetual virginity”, and EVERYTHING to do with her NOT having HAD, pre-marital KNOWING a man, AND her Faithful Beliefs, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY….
Her and her Betrothed’s DIRECT DESCENDENT-SHIP FROM the HOUSE OF DAVID!
AND THE TIMING… Of THE DEGREE REQUIREMENT FOR TAXIATION…
And WHY that LONG trip to Bethlehem FROM Nazareth at the VERY TIME she would Deliver the Babe….

The MYSTERIOUS WAYS of the ALL-KNOWING God, Revealing HOW it came to pass that A VIRGIN would BIRTH “the Savior” IN Bethlehem.

Alarming the Catholic elders and counsels DID NOT KNOW, DID NOT TEACH the TRUTH, Did not DISCOVER their ERRONEOUS teaching and CORRECT it.

BUT “INSTEAD” allow the LIE to grow and Praise SHRINES erected and dedicated to A woman mentioned IN Scripture a handful of times.
ALONG WITH a REMEDY for ANY congregant who would dare CHALLENGE the Churches TEACHING…
“BOOT THEM OUT OF THE CHURCH”…!

That is the DELIMMA you FACE, as a Catholic, to DARE learn the Truth, Declare you BELIEVE the TRUTH, puts your association with the Catholic Church in Jeopardy.

Your position is a conundrum, Because you choose to remain with your Catholic Church and its DOCTRINE concerning MARY…
AND choose to engage in a debate that which your argument is a fail….INSTEAD of not engaging in debate on this particular TOPIC.

Predicament!

 

[Taken]

Again = Can you answer the 5th Grade level question.

If we consider the passage you quoted: 2 Sam 6:34: “Michal the daughter of Saul had no children till the day of her death.”
We SEE that the word "till" carries with it the SAME connotation = something occurred from point A to point B
Point (A) - "Michal had no children"
"till"
Point (B) - "the day of her death"
What occurred from Point A to Point B?

He is in a predicament, and why a great many Catholics will AVOID participation in such a discussion.

 

[Taken]

This is your silly logic = which is quite amusing

Trying to Understand Gods Understanding of His Knowledge, WITH the MIND (which IS the Manner of LOGIC of choosing between this and that), is wholly unfruitful in trying to UNDERSTAND Gods Knowledge, According to God…
WHICH He freely Gives to a CONVERTED MAN.

1 Chr 22:
[12] Only the LORD give thee wisdom and understanding, and give thee charge concerning Israel, that thou mayest keep the law of the LORD thy God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Sigma]

TILL, reveals the KNOWING occurred AFTER the Birth.

TILL, reveals Joseph and Mary had intercourse occurred AFTER the Birth? According to that logic of yours, you should say Michal certainly did have children after she died: “Michal the daughter of Saul had no children till the day of her death.” (2 Sam. 6:23)

If you only apply your understanding of the word "till" to Matt. 1:25 and not also to 2 Sam. 6:23 then that's a double standard. If you don't apply it to 2 Sam. 5:23 then you shouldn't apply it to Matt. 1:25.

 

[David in NJ]

You're an effing hypocrite for not applying that logic here:

"And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son..." (Matt. 1:25)
"That little word "till" implies Joseph certainly did know her after Christ was born."

You know why you don't? Because you'd have to admit you're wrong about your interpretation of Matt. 1:25 to a Catholic, which you don't wanna do. You'd rather persist in the sin of pride rather than stoop so low.

Until you admit you're wrong, then you're sticking to your stupid logic, which is this:

"And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son..." (Matt. 1:25)
"That little word "till" implies Joseph certainly did know her after Christ was born."

Therefore, according to your logic, the following is true,

that same little word "till" implies Michal certainly did have children after she died:
“Michal the daughter of Saul had no children till the day of her death.” (2 Sam. 6:23)

Are you referring to effing-er sporting goods that went out of business 7 years ago?

Efinger Sporting Goods closing after more than 100 years

Store was once the leading team outfitter in New Jersey.

www.nj.com

 

[Taken]

TILL, reveals Joseph and Mary had intercourse occurred AFTER the Birth? According to that logic of yours, you should say Michal certainly did have children after she died: “Michal the daughter of Saul had no children till the day of her death.” (2 Sam. 6:23)

If you only apply your understanding of the word "till" to Matt. 1:25 and not also to 2 Sam. 6:23 then that's a double standard. If you don't apply it to 2 Sam. 5:23 then you shouldn't apply it to Matt. 1:25.

Your argument is MOOT.

The word TILL, is not a some big mystery that it means Something will NOT Occur UNTIL Something specific Occurs First.

After Jesus’ Birth, and After the Required Waiting days of a Son, (per the Law), Joseph KNEW his wife…
Not ONLY was “ALLOWED to KNOW his wife”….But specifically as Scripture reveals…. KNEW his wife.

Mary is not the Highlight of the Gospel of Jesus Christ Sent forth from God IN the New Testament.
Mary’s Sexual engaging with her Husband required no long drawn out bit by bit, daily details by details….
She was a virgin during her pregnancy.
She remained a virgin TILL…UNTIL the child’s Birth and the days of purification required by Law after she delivered a male child.

Not mysterious or vague.
Joseph KNEW his wife is clearly stated.
When Joseph KNEW his wife is clearly reveal.
What Joseph was TOLD, is clearly revealed he agreed to.
What Mary was TOLD, is clearly revealed she agreed to.

It is no mystery, that Joseph and Mary did not KNOW each other sexually UNTIL after the birth and Lawful waiting timeframe of the delivery of a male child.

 

[Cassandra]

Are you referring to effing-er sporting goods that went out of business 7 years ago?

Efinger Sporting Goods closing after more than 100 years

Store was once the leading team outfitter in New Jersey.

www.nj.com

I was wondering about that myself--wonder if it is ok to write that here. Is there really a difference?

 

[Taken]

TILL, reveals Joseph and Mary had intercourse occurred AFTER the Birth? According to that logic of yours, you should say Michal certainly did have children after she died: “Michal the daughter of Saul had no children till the day of her death.” (2 Sam. 6:23)

Ridiculous.

Michal delivered her child and Michal died the same day.
Nothing whatsoever says or implies Michal Died…THEN delivered her child. LOL!!

Nothing weird about failing to comprehend Spiritual Understanding….THAT is ONLY given BY the Lord God to THOSE that ARE Sanctified.

However it IS weird when a person is void of common sense.

 

[David in NJ]

I was wondering about that myself--wonder if it is ok to write that here. Is there really a difference?

I do not believe that it is - but i am not reporting it since he obviously had a melt down = "he who is without sin cast the first stone"

i have had similiar meltdowns on the highway.

 

[Sigma]

Nothing whatsoever says or implies Michal Died…THEN delivered her child. LOL!!

That's exactly why your understanding of the word till is stupid.

 

[David in NJ]

That's exactly why your understanding of the word till is stupid.

Johnny is going to watch the football game at the stadium.
Johnny cannot enter the stadium till he buys a ticket.

a.) When can Johnny enter the stadium? Before or AFTER he buys a ticket?
b.) Is the word 'after' found in the declarative sentence?
c.) Why is the word 'after' not found in the declarative sentence but is factually implied?

 

[Sigma]

Johnny cannot enter the stadium till he buys a ticket.

When can Johnny enter the stadium?
Before or AFTER he buys a ticket?

You said,

"And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son..." (Matt. 1:25)
"That little word "till" implies Joseph certainly did know her after Christ was born."

and therefore because you think the word "till" is used to mean "till after", then you should also say the following:

that same little word "till" implies Michal certainly did have children after she died:
“Michal the daughter of Saul had no children till the day of her death.” (2 Sam. 6:23)

You know why you won't? Because you'd have to admit you're wrong about your interpretation of how "till" is used in Matt. 1:25 to a Catholic, which you don't wanna do. You'd rather stick to stupid logic, be inconsistent, and persist in the sin of pride, rather than "stoop so low"" to do that.

 

[David in NJ]

You said,

"And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son..." (Matt. 1:25)
"That little word "till" implies Joseph certainly did know her after Christ was born."

and therefore because you think the word "till" is used to mean "till after", then you should also say the following:

that same little word "till" implies Michal certainly did have children after she died:
“Michal the daughter of Saul had no children till the day of her death.” (2 Sam. 6:23)

You know why you won't? Because you'd have to admit you're wrong about your interpretation of how "till" is used in Matt. 1:25 to a Catholic, which you don't wanna do. You'd rather stick to stupid logic, be inconsistent, and persist in the sin of pride, rather than "stoop so low"" to do that.

Post #417 has been edited for your assistance - Please refer back to Post #417 - Thank You

 

[David in NJ]

You said,

"And he knew her not till she brought forth her firstborn son..." (Matt. 1:25)
"That little word "till" implies Joseph certainly did know her after Christ was born."

and therefore because you think the word "till" is used to mean "till after", then you should also say the following:

that same little word "till" implies Michal certainly did have children after she died:
“Michal the daughter of Saul had no children till the day of her death.” (2 Sam. 6:23)

You know why you won't? Because you'd have to admit you're wrong about your interpretation of how "till" is used in Matt. 1:25 to a Catholic, which you don't wanna do. You'd rather stick to stupid logic, be inconsistent, and persist in the sin of pride, rather than "stoop so low"" to do that.

Post #417 has been edited (again) for your assistance - Please refer back to Post #417 - Thank You