False Teaching: Mary died a virgin. Biblical Proof Mary had children.

[Moonwood]

Mary was obedient unto GOD = God rewards obedience unto His Word
A Jewish women's greatest Blessing is to have children in holy matrimony = God Says: Be fruitful and multiply.
God blessed Mary to have children.


Straightforward and easy to understand: Michal had no children because of her sin = up to her death.
Once your dead your DEAD.
FYI = The Dead cannot "be fruitful and multiply"



"Is this not the carpenter, the Son of Mary, and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are not His sisters here with us?"

Once again, EASILY understood and received.

What you NEED to find out is why Joseph is not mentioned here in Mark 6:3

You’re offering theological generalities (“God rewards obedience,” “Jewish women are blessed with children”), but none of those claims identify any children of Mary. The question is not whether children are a blessing — the question is who the Gospels identify as the mother of the men named in Matthew 13:55 and Mark 6:3.

Your argument assumes that “God rewards obedience with children,” but Scripture contradicts that assumption. Righteous, obedient women — Sarah, Rebekah, Rachel, Hannah, Elizabeth — all experienced periods of infertility despite marital intercourse. So obedience does not guarantee conception, and intercourse does not guarantee children. You are treating intercourse as if it automatically produces children, but Scripture itself shows that this is not how conception works. You cannot use a theological generality to override what Scripture actually says about who the mother of James and Joseph was.

Scripture explicitly identifies Mary of Clopas/Cleophas as the mother of James and Joseph (Matthew 27:56; Mark 15:40; John 19:25). These are the same names listed among Jesus’s adelphoi. Early Christian writers for centuries preserve the same identification. So unless you can show a verse that says Mary the Mother of Jesus bore these men, the Gospels themselves tell us whose mother they actually had.

Your reply about Michal does not address the linguistic point: if “until” always implies a later reversal, then 2 Samuel 6:23 would imply Michal had children after death. Since that is impossible, your rule cannot be universal, and Matthew 1:25 cannot be used to prove later sexual relations.

And Joseph’s absence in Matthew 13:55 and Mark 6:3 is irrelevant — Joseph is absent from every scene of Jesus’s adult ministry, which is why the townspeople refer to Jesus as “the carpenter’s Son.”

So I’ll ask again:

Do you have a verse that actually says Joseph and Mary had children together and identifies them?

Because Matthew 13:55 and Mark 6:3 list names — and the Gospels identify another woman as their mother.

 

[David in NJ]

You’re offering theological generalities (“God rewards obedience,” “Jewish women are blessed with children”), but none of those claims identify any children of Mary. The question is not whether children are a blessing — the question is who the Gospels identify as the mother of the men named in Matthew 13:55 and Mark 6:3.

Your argument assumes that “God rewards obedience with children,” but Scripture contradicts that assumption. Righteous, obedient women — Sarah, Rebekah, Rachel, Hannah, Elizabeth — all experienced periods of infertility despite marital intercourse. So obedience does not guarantee conception, and intercourse does not guarantee children. You are treating intercourse as if it automatically produces children, but Scripture itself shows that this is not how conception works. You cannot use a theological generality to override what Scripture actually says about who the mother of James and Joseph was.

Scripture explicitly identifies Mary of Clopas/Cleophas as the mother of James and Joseph (Matthew 27:56; Mark 15:40; John 19:25). These are the same names listed among Jesus’s adelphoi. Early Christian writers for centuries preserve the same identification. So unless you can show a verse that says Mary the Mother of Jesus bore these men, the Gospels themselves tell us whose mother they actually had.

Your reply about Michal does not address the linguistic point: if “until” always implies a later reversal, then 2 Samuel 6:23 would imply Michal had children after death. Since that is impossible, your rule cannot be universal, and Matthew 1:25 cannot be used to prove later sexual relations.

And Joseph’s absence in Matthew 13:55 and Mark 6:3 is irrelevant — Joseph is absent from every scene of Jesus’s adult ministry, which is why the townspeople refer to Jesus as “the carpenter’s Son.”

So I’ll ask again:

Do you have a verse that actually says Joseph and Mary had children together and identifies them?

Because Matthew 13:55 and Mark 6:3 list names — and the Gospels identify another woman as their mother.

You are offering theological unbelief.

The only cure is to listen and obey Christ = Matthew 18:1-5 and Matthew 4:4

 

[Moonwood]

You are offering theological unbelief.

The only cure is to listen and obey Christ = Matthew 18:1-5 and Matthew 4:4

Appealing to “unbelief” does not answer the question of who Scripture identifies as the mother of the men named in Matthew 13:55 and Mark 6:3. I am asking a textual question, not making a theological claim. The issue is parentage, and Scripture itself provides the relevant genealogical information.

Matthew 27:56, Mark 15:40, and John 19:25 identify Mary of Clopas/Cleophas as the mother of James and Joseph — the same names listed among Jesus’s adelphoi. Early Christian writers for centuries preserve the same identification. If you believe Scripture, then you must take seriously the fact that the Gospels assign these men another mother, not Mary the Mother of Jesus.

Appealing to Matthew Matthew 4:4 or 18:1-5 does not identify any children of Mary, nor does it show that Joseph and Mary had children together. It simply avoids the question.

So I’ll ask again:

Do you have a verse that actually says Joseph and Mary had children together and identifies them?

Because Matthew 13:55 and Mark 6:3 list names — and the Gospels identify another woman as their mother.

 

[David in NJ]

Appealing to “unbelief” does not answer the question of who Scripture identifies as the mother of the men named in Matthew 13:55 and Mark 6:3. I am asking a textual question, not making a theological claim.

Sure it does as the Scripture CLEARLY identifies "Jesus as the son of Mary, who has the named brothers & sisters"

SEE - Mark 6:1-3
Jesus went on from there and came to His hometown, accompanied by His disciples.
When the Sabbath came, He began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard Him were astonished.
“Where did this man get these ideas?” they asked.
“What is this wisdom He has been given? And how can He perform such miracles?
Isn’t this the carpenter, the son of Mary and the brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? Aren’t His sisters here with us as well?”
And they took offense at Him.

Are you offended that JESUS has step-brothers & sister = like the pharisees?

 

[Moonwood]

Sure it does as the Scripture CLEARLY identifies "Jesus as the son of Mary, who has the named brothers & sisters"

SEE - Mark 6:1-3
Jesus went on from there and came to His hometown, accompanied by His disciples.
When the Sabbath came, He began to teach in the synagogue, and many who heard Him were astonished.
“Where did this man get these ideas?” they asked.
“What is this wisdom He has been given? And how can He perform such miracles?
Isn’t this the carpenter, the son of Mary and the brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? Aren’t His sisters here with us as well?”
And they took offense at Him.

Are you offended that JESUS has step-brothers & sister = like the pharisees?

You have now repeatedly ignored every textual, linguistic, and genealogical point I’ve raised. Repeating Mark 6:3 does not answer any of them, because the Gospels and early Christian writers themselves identify Mary of Clopas/Cleophas as the mother of James and Joseph — the same names listed among Jesus’s adelphoi.

So I’ll ask again:

Do you have a verse that actually says Joseph and Mary had children together and identifies them?