Final Authority and Final Canonization

[Episkopos]

When an individual says " the Bible " that individual is speaking

like a parrot or a deceiver. There are over 400 (Christian, Catholic, Cult)

Greek, Syrian, Latin, German, English, French, Spanish, etc., Bibles

which do not match in content, volume or doctrine.





KJV 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Please explain to me how the Catholic RSV is scripture given by inspiration of God.

You have a false sense of maturity and truth. A parrot, as you call it, always has to give chapter and verse ALONG with the the content of the bible. Jesus was not a Parrot....yet He said "it is written". Or are you dividing between good and evil based on terminology? Is this your point? "The bible says"....is equivalent to..."it says in the bible" (or the word). Would you prefer the archaic..."It is written"? It is written where? Can you say "semantics" ?

 

[makahiya117]

The topic is final authority and final canonization.

The question is do you have scripture ?

Please answer the question and state your theory of final authority and final canonization.

 

[IanLC]

Jesus Christ is the final authority! The Holy Bible is the word of God given by inspiration of the Holy Spirit to holy men. Thus it is the Holy Spirit who is the final authority for He is the Word, Spoke the Word ad birthed the Word thus the Holy Ghost is the final authority! You can have the Holy Bible yet if you do not have the guidance of the Holy Ghost you will not have the correct understanding and interpretation of the scripture for it is the Holy Spirit that leads into ALL TRUTH for He is the Spirit of Truth. The Holy Spirit will not lead you against the Word of God for both are ONE!

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16-17)
"But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come" (John 16:13)
"This is the one who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth."(1 John 5:6)

 

[makahiya117]

KJV 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:


KJV 1 Corinthians 15:3-4
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received,
how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day
according to the scriptures.


KJV John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said,
out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The topic is final authority and final canonization.

The question is do you have scripture ?

Please answer the question and state your theory of final authority

and final canonization.

 

[makahiya117]

" God does not preserve his scriptures by stuffing them into a box and hiding them in an attic.

He preserves them by putting them to ready use in the lives of his people and the church. "


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


KJV Holy Bibles are the most published, read and loved bibles of all time.

KJV Holy Bibles are the most publiahed, read and loved books of all time.

( USA Bible Society 2013 )




.

 

[excubitor]

The KJV was not translated from dusty "older" manuscripts.
They were translated from the textus receptus which means the 'received text'
Modern translations do not work with the text they received. They try to find older manuscripts which they erroneously assume are older because they are better.
The philosophy is that the scripture degrades with each passing generations because of copying errors and interpolations. It is a purely acedemic modern approach of critical analysis and completely ignores the promise of God that he will preserve his scriptures.

The KJV is a faithful translation of the Textus Receptus with a careful reconciliation to the ancient translations ie. mainly Latin.
It is interesting to note that the original KJV contained the apocrypha and these translations can still be obtained. They were quite properly put in their own section at the time as nobody disputes that they are a deuterocanon.

So I have a question. When was the KJV perfect Refined seven times purified in the furnace? Before the apocrypha was taken out or after?
And was it a pure and perfect bible when it sported in the NT over 100 cross references to the apocrypha?

I contend that the good and perfect KJV was corrupted by later generations of protestants who were ashamed of the beliefs of the earlier protestant predecessors and systematically over a number of decades removed cross references to the apocrypha out of the margins and eventually removed the apocrypha altogether,

For these reasons, the modern KJV has omissions and deficiencies but is not injurious to read.

" God does not preserve his scriptures by stuffing them into a box and hiding them in an attic.

He preserves them by putting them to ready use in the lives of his people and the church. "


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


KJV Holy Bibles are the most published, read and loved bibles of all time.

KJV Holy Bibles are the most publiahed, read and loved books of all time.

( USA Bible Society 2013 )




.

 

[Selene]

The ORIGINAL KJV contained the apocrypha because those books were considered inspired by God for thousands of years. The canon of Scripture was closed in 393 AD at the Council of Hippo. If you studied what books were canonized by the Early Church in 393 AD, you would have found that what you call the apocrypha were actually books that were chosen as part of the canon of the Bible because they were viewed as "inspired by God" by the Early Christians. I might also add that the Dead Sea Scrolls, which archaeologists discovered in Israel also have the apocrypha books in them. The only missing book was Esther.

The KJV was completed in 1611. You are correct that the KJV used the the "Textus Receptus" as one of their sources in translation. However, the Textus Receptus dates only to the 12th-15th century. The original Textus Receptus (TR) compiled by Dutch theologian Desiderius Erasmus (c. 1466-1536) was hurriedly put together and contained "thousands of typographical errors," as well as scribal commentary that was not in the original Greek (See the weblink below on the KJV). Other sources that the KJV translaters used was the Latin Vulgate (which is a Catholic Bible written in the 4th Century). The Latin Vulgate was written by St. Jerome who used the actual Greek and Hebrew manuscripts of that time era. St. Jerome was also fluent in speaking Greek and Hebrew.

The Douay-Rhimes, by the way, is a Catholic Bible translated in 1582, which was BEFORE the Original KJV. The Douay-Rhimes was a direct translation of the Bible from the 4th Century Latin Vulgate.

http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/king-james-bible-history.html

 

[makahiya117]

" So I have a question. When was the KJV perfect Refined seven times purified in the furnace? Before the apocrypha was taken out or after ? "


Good question.


While the entire line of scripture are records,

the outstanding record of scripture

and the scripture of final authority is the published text and form

of the AV 1611 KJV Holy Bible first edition.

All KJV Holy Bibles are editions of the AV 1611 KJV Holy Bible first edition.

KJV Holy Bibles are the most published, read and loved bibles of all time.

KJV Holy Bibles are the most published, read and loved books of all time.




.

The ORIGINAL KJV contained the apocrypha because those books were considered inspired by God for thousands of years. The canon of Scripture was closed in 393 AD at the Council of Hippo. If you studied what books were canonized by the Early Church in 393 AD, you would have found that what you call the apocrypha were actually books that were chosen as part of the canon of the Bible because they were viewed as "inspired by God" by the Early Christians. I might also add that the Dead Sea Scrolls, which archaeologists discovered in Israel also have the apocrypha books in them. The only missing book was Esther.

The KJV was completed in 1611. You are correct that the KJV used the the "Textus Receptus" as one of their sources in translation. However, the Textus Receptus dates only to the 12th-15th century. The original Textus Receptus (TR) compiled by Dutch theologian Desiderius Erasmus (c. 1466-1536) was hurriedly put together and contained "thousands of typographical errors," as well as scribal commentary that was not in the original Greek (See the weblink below on the KJV). Other sources that the KJV translaters used was the Latin Vulgate (which is a Catholic Bible written in the 4th Century). The Latin Vulgate was written by St. Jerome who used the actual Greek and Hebrew manuscripts of that time era. St. Jerome was also fluent in speaking Greek and Hebrew.

The Douay-Rhimes, by the way, is a Catholic Bible translated in 1582, which was BEFORE the Original KJV. The Douay-Rhimes was a direct translation of the Bible from the 4th Century Latin Vulgate.

http://www.stellarhousepublishing.com/king-james-bible-history.html

You don't know what you're talking about.

KJV Thou therefore which teachest another,
teachest thou not thyself ?

 

[Selene]

" So I have a question. When was the KJV perfect Refined seven times purified in the furnace? Before the apocrypha was taken out or after ? "


Good question.


While the entire line of scripture are records,

the outstanding record of scripture

and the scripture of final authority is the published text and form

of the AV 1611 KJV Holy Bible first edition.

All KJV Holy Bibles are editions of the AV 1611 KJV Holy Bible first edition.

KJV Holy Bibles are the most published, read and loved bibles of all time.

KJV Holy Bibles are the most published, read and loved books of all time.




.





You don't know what you're talking about.

KJV Thou therefore which teachest another,
teachest thou not thyself ?

Why are you shouting?? If you think that I am incorrect in something, all you need to do is show me where I am incorrect. There is no need to shout. Exactly, which is it that you disagree with?? I went by what history says.

 

[makahiya117]

really, oh, ok, just easier to read

 

[makahiya117]

KJV All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:
Can anyone simply answer my question,

Do you have scripture ?

 

[Wormwood]

KJV But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

-----------------


The topic is final authority and final canonization.

The question is do you have scripture ?

Pleases answer the question and state your theory of final authority and final canonization.

Makahiya,

This is about the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard. Basically you are suggesting that Christians had no Scripture for 1600 years. The idea that we do not have "Scripture" because we do not have the original documents of the authors of the NT is laughable and that 1600 years later we do have that final authority simply because...you deem it so. That really seems to be the just of it since there is nothing you can point to that connects it to any Apostle or miraculous event that would prove it to be the one and only final authority. It seems clear to me that you know very little of the linguistics that go into translation or the textual criticism that gives us incredible certainty as to what the original manuscripts contained. This goes not only for the NT but also for the OT. No one has the original writings of Moses and yet the Jews seemed to have no problem believing in the inspiration of the Torah without the handwritten documents of Moses himself. I think you limit the power of the Holy Spirit and the idea that neither the Jews or Christians have ever had actual Scripture until thousands of years later is absolutely absurd. This is what happens when you are convinced of an idea and grasp at straws in an attempt to prove it.

 

[makahiya117]

I am not a KJV Only or an Original Only.
I believe all scripture is given by inspiration of God.

KJV All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:

" A peacock is no more perfect or beautiful than a swan. A peacock is simply magnified in the details. Beauty under a magnifying glass, is magnified beauty. When early English Bibles dawned, their simple lines were like the swan. Now they pale with the magnified details of the beautiful King James Bible. The previous Bishop’s Bible 1568-1611 was no less perfect, pure, and true than the KJV. It’s beauty was simply polished, like pure gold is polished, so that the KJV magnifies and mirrors more finely
the glorious reflection of our precious Saviour, Jesus, the author. ”
Dr. Gail Riplinger

While the entire line of scripture are records, the outstanding record of scripture
and the scripture of final authority is the published text and form
of the AV 1611 KJV Holy Bible first edition.

KJV Holy Bibles are the most published, read and loved bibles of all time.
KJV Holy Bibles are the most published, read and loved books of all time.

The topic is final authority and final canonization.

---------------------------------------

The question is do you have scripture ?

---------------------------------------

Please answer the question and state your theory of final authority and final canonization.

 

[Wormwood]

I am not a KJV Only or an Original Only.
I believe all scripture is given by inspiration of God.

KJV All scripture is given by inspiration of God,
and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction,
for instruction in righteousness:

" A peacock is no more perfect or beautiful than a swan. A peacock is simply magnified in the details. Beauty under a magnifying glass, is magnified beauty. When early English Bibles dawned, their simple lines were like the swan. Now they pale with the magnified details of the beautiful King James Bible. The previous Bishop’s Bible 1568-1611 was no less perfect, pure, and true than the KJV. It’s beauty was simply polished, like pure gold is polished, so that the KJV magnifies and mirrors more finely
the glorious reflection of our precious Saviour, Jesus, the author. ”
Dr. Gail Riplinger

While the entire line of scripture are records, the outstanding record of scripture
and the scripture of final authority is the published text and form
of the AV 1611 KJV Holy Bible first edition.

KJV Holy Bibles are the most published, read and loved bibles of all time.
KJV Holy Bibles are the most published, read and loved books of all time.

The topic is final authority and final canonization.

---------------------------------------

The question is do you have scripture ?

---------------------------------------

Please answer the question and state your theory of final authority and final canonization.

I have no problem with the KJV (other than its written in 1600's English that is a real challenge for many today). However, your argument that the KJV is the "final authority" makes no sense. Says who? Popular opinion because it is the most read? Seriously? What is the basis for this claim? Do you not realize the same argument was made over the Latin Vulgate? Lets not make your preference a matter of "final authority."

To answer your question... "Do you have Scripture?" Um...yes. My "theory" is that what constitutes "Scripture" is the inspiration of the original authors. As Scripture tells us that they did not write of their own accord, but were "carried along by the Holy Spirit." Thus, it is not the translators that are "carried along by the Holy Spirit" but the inspired authors. We have so many parchments, uncials and other copies of the original autographs that we can have incredible high certainty of what they wrote. Moreover, linguisticly, pointing to one translation as a final authority is very faulty because it fails to understand the nuances of language. There is not a one-to-one coorespondance from one language to another. Some words cannot be exactly translated in another language and could be communicated in a variety of ways accurately. Thus, to say only one translation can be right is to misunderstand how translations work. Translations work to help us understand the message of the original authors. In Greek, agape, phileo and eros are all very different concepts, but are usually all translated as "love" in English...because the English language is very unspecific when it comes to "love." So we can translate these different words a variety of ways to help the reader understand the meaning of the author and it is wrong to say only one of these options could be right.

 

[makahiya117]

" To answer your question... "Do you have Scripture?" Um...yes. My "theory" is that what constitutes "Scripture" is the inspiration of the original authors. "


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


lol . . . you're silly !


You cannot honestly state you have scripture if you believe
only the original manuscripts were given by inspiration of God.

There are no original manuscripts !





KJV But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty,
not walking in craftiness,nor handling the word of God deceitfully;
but by manifestation of the truth commendingourselves
to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

 

[Wormwood]

The sad thing about your argument is that it is so completely baseless and undermines all of Scripture and all history by your very sad attempt to exalt the AV. I could make the same argument of any translation. I could say the exact same thing about the NIV. It is the most popular translation today...therefore it alone is the final authority. Sigh.

 

[mjrhealth]

WHo has scripture?? , more importantly who has Jesus, you can have all the scripture in the world and still not be saved...
Who is your first love or rather what is you first love,? Where do you put Jesus, your saviour, who is always left out...

In All His Love

 

[Angelina]

It doesn't really matter if you read the KJV, NKJV, NIV NASB, ESV or any other similar bible. The Word of God is inspired through revelation of the Holy Spirit who will teach you the truth.

Shalom!

 

[sniper762]

What i'd like to know is "who gave KING JAMES the athority"

 

[excubitor]

What i'd like to know is "who gave KING JAMES the athority"

Passed down from King Henry VIIIth who usurped it from the Pope.