"For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive."

[FaithWillDo]

If it is true that every human shall be saved, then why does Christ warn man against the second death, that is eternal flames? For that matter why would Christ speak of some humans who shall be called to stand before the Great White Throne Judgment since the sins of even those who die in unbelief are forgiven them without believing in Christ? The doctrine of universal salvation is not biblical!

Dear rwb,

Your understanding of salvation and how Christ achieves it within a person is not accurate.

You asked:
If it is true that every human shall be saved, then why does Christ warn man against the second death, that is eternal flames?

First of all, judgment (the flames) is not "eternal" - it is only for the age (aion). Also, Christ judges mankind because of He loves us. Judgment is for our benefit. Without it, we cannot be converted.

Isa 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.

Isa 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Jer 4:2 And thou shalt swear, The LORD liveth, in truth, in judgment, and in righteousness; and the nations shall bless themselves in him, and in him shall they glory.

Psa 33:5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.

Mankind, however, does not understand Christ's purpose for judgment:

Prov 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

As for the second death: the first death (term not in scripture) is mankind's death which came as a result of sin - the true penalty of sin. The second death is mankind's death which comes as a result of the judgment of Christ. This judgment destroys mankind's carnal nature. In other words, judgment purifies us. It destroys the chaff and leaves wheat.

The second death is a necessary component of conversion. All mankind must die so that we can be governed by a new spiritual nature; the one which the Holy Spirit will give us.

John 12:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Isa 66:16 For by fire (judgment) and by his sword (Word of God, Christ) will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

Those who are "slain/perished" have been converted by the Spirit and by Fire.

This scripture applies:

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the HOLY SPIRIT, and with FIRE: 12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

To be converted, mankind must be baptized with the Holy Spirit and with Fire.

Mark 9:49 For every one shall be seasoned with fire, and every sacrifice shall be seasoned with salt.

Mankind's second death is accomplished in the Lake of Fire. All mankind will be judged in the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire is a spiritual symbol for the judgment of Christ. Once its purpose is satisfied, it will end.

The Elect experience the second death in this age before they physically die.

Revelation chapter 19 teaches this truth concerning the Elect. The Lake of Fire presented in Rev 19:20-21 is showing the judgment of the Elect. However, for the Elect, the Elect will not be judged in wrath (will not be harmed by the second death, Rev 2:11) during their time of judgment. Why? Because they are "born again" and have become a child of God PRIOR to their judgment coming.

This scripture applies:

Mat 24:40 Then shall two (represents one believer, one flesh) be in the field; the one shall be taken (the Man of Sin), and the other left (the child of God). 41 Two women (one believer, one flesh) shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken (the Great Harlot, carnal nature), and the other left (the child of God).

The ones who are "taken" are cast into the Lake of Fire while the new child of God reigns with Christ over that judgment (Rev 19:11-19).

The story of Noah and the ark is another analogy which teaches this same truth. Christ referenced this story below:

Mat 24:34 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 35 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 36 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The judgment of Christ only harms those outside the ark. Those outside the ark represent the things of this world (the Man of Sin and the Great Harlot) which must be destroyed.

And likewise, the story of Lot and his wife teach the same message.

Luke 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. 31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. 32 Remember Lot's wife.

The new child of God (Lot) flees to the mountains (represents the new birth) and does not experience judgment. Lot's wife is a symbol for the Great Harlot and for that reason, she is destroyed from that judgment.

As for the lost of the final age, they will experience wrath during their time of judgment because they have not been separated from their carnality when judgment is administered. They will be judged by the Law since they are not under grace. However, before their judgment is complete, the Lord will have mercy upon them. At that time, He will give them the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit before they perish along with their carnality.

These verses apply:

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, if any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

After their new birth, the destruction of their carnality will continue until it is destroyed. Joel chapter 2 teaches this truth.

You asked:
For that matter why would Christ speak of some humans who shall be called to stand before the Great White Throne Judgment since the sins of even those who die in unbelief are forgiven them without believing in Christ?

No one is forgiven until they are "in Christ". When the lost appear before the White Throne, they are cast into the Lake of Fire so that they will be saved (as I explained above).

The penalty of sin is death. Since it is, why would Christ resurrect the lost from their state of death if He wasn't planning on saving them?

Everything that Christ does in this creation is based upon His love for mankind and this includes His judgment.

In the end, the salvation of all mankind will give glory to the Father:

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Joe

 

[JunChosen]

LET US TAKE THE LOGICAL CONCLUSION OF 1 CORIBTHIANS 15:22, BECAUSE MANY WHO POSTED HERE HAVE DIFFERENT UNDERSTANDING/VIEWS AS TO THE GIST OF THE VERSE!

I have found this to be true that the Bible has an answer for everything concerning biblical doctrines. including 1 Corinthians 15:22.

Genesis 18:17-19, reads:
17 And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;
18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Here is the kicker and a beautiful example of the word "all" from God's perspective:

Luke 2:1 reads:
"And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that "all" the world should be taxed."

Does this mean that China and other nations which existed at that time were subject to be taxed also? I DON'T THINK SO!!! Only the known world of that day that were conquered by the Roman Empire!

Scripture becomes illumined when we know where to look or search, instead of speculating.

Besides, we know that hell will heavily be populated.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Webers_Home]

.
● Isa 66:22-24 . . From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to
another, all mankind will come and bow down before me-- speaks the Lord.
And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled
against Me: their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they
will be loathsome to all mankind.

That rather ghastly scene depicts a sort of tourist attraction similar to the La
Brea Tar Pits museum in Los Angeles where the remains of prehistoric
creatures, excavated from ancient asphalt deposits, are on display.

A worm that thrives in brimstone is pretty amazing, but not unreasonable.
The 4 inch Pompeii worm lives in sea water temperatures of 176°
Fahrenheit; hot enough to kill salmonella and sanitize an egg. So I guess if
God could create a worm like the Pompeii, it shouldn't be too difficult for Him
to create worms that like it even warmer.
_

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Down at the end of all with which we are familiar, the announcement below
will be made.

● Rev 22:11 . . Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy

In other words: the people to whom those words pertain, will be stuck with
who and what they are with no chance of ever being any different. In other
words: they will be permanently depraved.
_

 

[FaithWillDo]

.
● Isa 66:22-24 . . From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to
another, all mankind will come and bow down before me-- speaks the Lord.
And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled
against Me: their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they
will be loathsome to all mankind.

That rather ghastly scene depicts a sort of tourist attraction similar to the La
Brea Tar Pits museum in Los Angeles where the remains of prehistoric
creatures, excavated from ancient asphalt deposits, are on display.

A worm that thrives in brimstone is pretty amazing, but not unreasonable.
The 4 inch Pompeii worm lives in sea water temperatures of 176°
Fahrenheit; hot enough to kill salmonella and sanitize an egg. So I guess if
God could create a worm like the Pompeii, it shouldn't be too difficult for Him
to create worms that like it even warmer.
_

Dear Webers_Home,
Isa 66:22-24 is speaking about conversion. The dead bodies represent the Old Man who has been slain. Those who "bow down" and look upon the dead bodies represent the New Man.

Mankind is the one who is in rebellion against God and is the one who has sinned. The penalty of sin is death and for this reason, all mankind must perish. But from that death, we will all be "born again" as a child of God. All who have died in Adam will be made alive in Christ.

The old vessel will be destroyed and made into a new vessel "as seemed good to the potter to make":

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Christ is not a monster who literally kills most of mankind or torments most of mankind in literal fire for all eternity. It is blasphemy to say so.

This belief comes from the spirit of anti-Christ which took full control of the church shortly after the Apostles died. Through that spirit, Satan is masquerading as Christ.

2Cor 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

This is the "lie" which the "strong delusion" is causing the church to believe.

This verse applies:

2Thes 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The true Christ is loving & merciful and will do all the necessary work to save all of mankind. He is our God and Savior. Anything less will not give glory to the Father.

Joe

 

[quietthinker]

1 Corinthians 15:22

What does "all" mean to you? Does it mean "some", as many here apparently believe?

It is assumed that all men want life yet sin has in it the seeds of its own demise. Violence is our solve all solution, default if you like......violence and fear, bedfellows who kill.
Humanity has been reconciled by Jesus, yes all, because he could not bear to be without us, however, only a relative few want the salvation given. Will God force those who don't want life to live against their will?

 

[Patrick1966]

Will God force those who don't want life to live against their will?

After they are refined and freed from their sinful nature they will race to God!

 

[quietthinker]

After they are refined and freed from their sinful nature they will race to God!

Ahhhh, but they love their sin.....why would they want to give it up if they love it?

 

[Patrick1966]

Ahhhh, but they love their sin.....why would they want to give it up if they love it?

What do you believe is the purpose of damnation?

 

[Patrick1966]

It destroys the chaff and leaves wheat.

I think perhaps the chaff is transformed rather than destroyed.

 

[Patrick1966]

This is the "lie" which the "strong delusion" is causing the church to believe.

There's no question that the early church was hijacked and morphed into an abomination that preached false doctrines, such as "eternal" damnation.

 

[quietthinker]

There's no question that the early church was hijacked and morphed into an abomination that preached false doctrines, such as "eternal" damnation.

There is no purpose. People choose to die.....just as Judas chose to kill himself.....even after being in the inner circle and witnessing Jesus' approach to sinners.

 

[quietthinker]

What do you believe is the purpose of damnation?

There is no purpose. People choose to die.....just as Judas chose to kill himself.....even after being in the inner circle and witnessing Jesus' approach to sinners.

 

[FaithWillDo]

I think perhaps the chaff is transformed rather than destroyed.

Dear Patrick1966,
The chaff represents the carnality of a person and it is that carnality which is the cause of sin. It must be destroyed and replaced with the new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit. Only then will the child of God be born who will never sin.

Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

There's no question that the early church was hijacked and morphed into an abomination that preached false doctrines, such as "eternal" damnation.

Dear Patrick1966,
Very few believers can accept the truth that the church became apostate near the end of the 1st century.

Actually, there are no doctrines of Orthodox Christianity which are completely true. Some have elements of truth mixed into them but most of the doctrines are completely false. The doctrines of Free Will and Hell are the most blasphemous and egregious.

I also want to make another comment your statement concerning the chaff being transformed.

The carnal nature (chaff, Great Harlot) will be completely destroyed. With it, the spirit of anti-Christ will also be completely destroyed from within the believer. These judgments happen very quickly; in "one hour" (Rev 18:10).

However, the carnal mind of the believer is "transformed" into the Mind of Christ. This is very slow process and it happens by the "chastisement" of Christ. With the chastisement of Christ, the believer will learn righteousness.

This verse applies:
Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the (new) earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

The New Earth represents the new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit which has replaced the carnal nature of the believer. It is the New Earth which will transform the carnal mind into the Mind of Christ.

This statement by John the Baptist also applies to this transformation:

John 3:30 He (Christ, the New Man) must increase, but I (Old Man) must decrease.

John the Baptist is an Old Testament "type" for the Old Man.

As the converted believer matures, Christ will increase within the believer. This happens as the believer consumes Christ's bread and meat (truth of God) which they can now receive after having their spiritual blindness healed. This "receiving of truth" will bring judgment to the Old Man. When this process is fully completed, the mind of the believer will be transformed into the Mind of Christ:

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the Old Man with his deeds; 10 And have put on the New Man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: 11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. 12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; 13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

After the death of the Old Man, the believer will be a fully matured son of God.

Joe

 

[Patrick1966]

Dear Patrick1966,
Very few believers can accept the truth that the church became apostate near the end of the 1st century.

Actually, there are no doctrines of Orthodox Christianity which are completely true. Some have elements of truth mixed into them but most of the doctrines are completely false. The doctrines of Free Will and Hell are the most blasphemous and egregious.

I also want to make another comment your statement concerning the chaff being transformed.

The carnal nature (chaff, Great Harlot) will be completely destroyed. With it, the spirit of anti-Christ will also be completely destroyed from within the believer. These judgments happen very quickly; in "one hour" (Rev 18:10).

However, the carnal mind of the believer is "transformed" into the Mind of Christ. This is very slow process and it happens by the "chastisement" of Christ. With the chastisement of Christ, the believer will learn righteousness.

This verse applies:
Isa 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the (new) earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

The New Earth represents the new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit which has replaced the carnal nature of the believer. It is the New Earth which will transform the carnal mind into the Mind of Christ.

This statement by John the Baptist also applies to this transformation:

John 3:30 He (Christ, the New Man) must increase, but I (Old Man) must decrease.

John the Baptist is an Old Testament "type" for the Old Man.

As the converted believer matures, Christ will increase within the believer. This happens as the believer consumes Christ's bread and meat (truth of God) which they can now receive after having their spiritual blindness healed. This "receiving of truth" will bring judgment to the Old Man. When this process is fully completed, the mind of the believer will be transformed into the Mind of Christ:

Col 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the Old Man with his deeds; 10 And have put on the New Man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: 11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. 12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; 13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

After the death of the Old Man, the believer will be a fully matured son of God.

Joe

Thank you and God bless you my brother. You are a fantastic addition to this community!

 

[Robert Gwin]

1 Corinthians 15:22

What does "all" mean to you? Does it mean "some", as many here apparently believe?

That is an interesting verse Patrick, why? Because we have historical evidence that all die, but the Bible indicates that not all will have everlasting life. I don't think that Jesus was in error or that the Bible recorded it incorrectly when he said: Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men; but the blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. Mat 12:31 or Mat 7:13 so you have an excellent question sir, I guess we will have to wait for the answer in the future.

Logically it means that all that do gain life will have done so through Christ, correct?

 

[FaithWillDo]

That is an interesting verse Patrick, why? Because we have historical evidence that all die, but the Bible indicates that not all will have everlasting life. I don't think that Jesus was in error or that the Bible recorded it incorrectly when he said: Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men; but the blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. Mat 12:31 or Mat 7:13 so you have an excellent question sir, I guess we will have to wait for the answer in the future.

Logically it means that all that do gain life will have done so through Christ, correct?

Dear Robert Gwin,
You need to continue reading Mat 12:31 into the next verse to fully understand what Christ is teaching:

Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this age, neither in the age to come.

The present age in which Christ was speaking was the age of the Old Covenant. The "age to come" is this present age of the New Covenant of Grace through Faith. However, in the next age (Lake of Fire age), those who sin against the Holy Spirit will be forgiven at that time. If they were never going to be forgiven, Christ would have just said so without ever mentioning the ages when they would not be.

As for the second verse you mentioned:

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

This scripture above is speaking about the Pathway to Salvation which the Elect of this age will travel to salvation. They are the "few" who have been chosen out of the "many" who were called out from the world (the church):

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

The apostate church (the many), along with the unbelievers, will be resurrected to judgment and will be cast into the Lake of Fire for their destruction.

The Lake of Fire is a symbol for the judgment of Christ. At this time, the "lost" will be judged in wrath by the Law. This sounds ominous and terrible, but ultimately, it will be to their benefit. Everything that Christ does in this creation is for the purpose of saving mankind. At the end of Christ's judgment, after the "lost" have "paid the last penny" (Luke 12:59), Christ will call out to them with this offer of salvation:

John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, if any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

This call is shown again in Rev 22:17, but this time, the Elect (the Bride) join Christ in making this call:

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

It is at this time (the end of the final age) that the remaining balance of mankind will be saved.

If you read further from 1Cor 15:22, you will see that it teaches this same truth:

1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

After Paul states that all who have died in Adam will be made alive in Christ, he mentions the order of salvation in which Christ will save all mankind. Christ was the first (yes, He died in Adam), the Elect will then be next "at His coming" which happens in this age. Then finally, the consummation (the rest of mankind) will come at the end of the final age and Christ will deliver up the Kingdom of Heaven to His Father. God will then be "all in all" (no one left out).

Then these three scriptures will be testified to be true:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Only with the salvation of the world will Christ's work of saving mankind will be testified to be true and this accomplishment will give glory to His Father who will then be "all in all". God can only be "all in all" after all mankind has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

One of the primary reasons most believers think Christ will not save all mankind is because they do not understand the judgment of Christ.

Prov 28:5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things.

The judgment of Christ is necessary for the conversion of mankind into children of God. The Elect are judged and converted in this present age before they physically die. The rest of mankind will be judged and converted in the final age. However, the "lost" of the final age will be judged PRIOR to their new birth which will cause them to experience "wrath". In contrast, the Elect are judged AFTER they have experienced their new birth. Because of this change in order, the Elect will not experience wrath. However, both groups will experience destruction because it is necessary for salvation. The carnal nature and carnal mind of each person must be destroyed and replaced with the new spiritual nature of the Holy Spirit and the mind of Christ. This is conversion. For that reason, judgment is necessary:

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND WITH FIRE: 12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Fire is the spiritual symbol for the judgment of Christ. To be saved, mankind must be baptized with the Holy Spirit AND with Fire. It is not one or the other as many teach.

Mark 9:49 For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.

Here are three scriptures which teach the truth about Christ's judgment:

Isa 1:27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.

Psa 33:5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.

1Cor 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward (life during the ages, reign with Christ). 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss (judged in wrath, no blessing of reigning with Christ): but he himself shall be saved (at end of the final age); yet so as by fire (judgment).

Once a person's judgment is complete, the old vessel will be fully made into the new vessel "as seemed good to the Potter (Christ) to make it":

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Joe

 

[Davy]

1 Corinthians 15:22

What does "all" mean to you? Does it mean "some", as many here apparently believe?

You may as well just stop people on the street and say to them, "I want ALL... of it." Will they understand what the heck you're talking about?? Of course not, and that is exactly the kind of un-Biblical chop-shop you are doing with your question. It's about Biblical context, in case you didn't know.

 

[FaithWillDo]

You may as well just stop people on the street and say to them, "I want ALL... of it." Will they understand what the heck you're talking about?? Of course not, and that is exactly the kind of un-Biblical chop-shop you are doing with your question. It's about Biblical context, in case you didn't know.

Dear Davy,
No, it's not about biblical context. No where in scripture does it say ever mention any such thing.

Here is what scripture says:

Isa 28: 9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (the spiritual language of Christ) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

1Cor 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a MYSTERY, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Also, the "context" which you claim about 1Cor 15:22 is incorrect. The context of the verse is the salvation of all mankind.

From what you demonstrated in your post, your method of understanding scripture starts with your own belief and then forces it into your understanding of God's Word so that you can continue to dwell in "peace and safety".

Clearly, the verse says that "all" who died in Adam is the same "all" who will be made alive in Christ. Since 100% of mankind has died in Adam, 100% of mankind will be made alive in Christ. You are assigning two different meanings to the word "all" in the same verse just to make it conform to your false belief concerning Christ being a failure to complete the mission His Father gave Him:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

After Paul says "all" will be made alive in Christ, He then proceeds to teach the "order" of mankind's salvation; Christ (who died in Adam) was first. Next comes the Elect who are made alive "at His coming". Then to complete the order, the balance of mankind will be made alive in Christ at the consummation of the ages.

With the way you approach scripture, how could Christ ever make you believe that He really is mankind's Savior if "all" does not mean "all"?

There is a scriptural answer to this question but you would not accept it just as you will not accept the truth of Jesus Christ being mankind's Savior.

Let me ask you one question which I would like for you to answer:

Can you explain to me what this one verse below teaches?

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

If you use your unscriptural method of "context" and carnal understanding of words, you will not understand the wonderful truth this verse is teaching.

Joe