For WHAT purpose Does the Lord Descend FROM High Heavens TO lower Heavens Clouds?

[ScottA]

The Word of God / JESUS …
Was Always “Spirit”.
The Flesh He was “Seen in by “humans” Was IN a body God “Prepared” for human men TO SEE.”…

1) They who ARE spirits (Angels can See Him as He IS / Spirit)
2) They who HAVE a quickened spirit AND glorified body (can SEE Him as He IS / Spirit)
3) They who are earthly men (without a glorified body can SEE Him as a man)

Because… Jesus descends from to Heaven TO A White Cloud… human men without a glorified body,
SEE Him as “the Son of man”.

This is NOT about WHAT / Jesus IS…
But Rather About …
How All Men ( Glorified body or Not) CAN ALL SEE Him AT the Same Time He IS ON that White Cloud.

Thus… AS Scripture says…Revealing ALL shall See Him and What He shall Do.

Rev 14:
[14] And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

Yes, the Word was always Spirit. However, He also came fully as a man, born of a women and of flesh...flesh which cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. So, the idea of "glorified bodies" suggests glorified flesh, which is not biblically true, for the flesh returns to the dust and is dissolved with the beggarly elements of this world.

Is that not how you see it? Are you or are you not speaking of the flesh being "glorified?"

As for every eye seeing...what is missing in your explanation, is that all are first raised up in the spirit, some to everlasting life, and some to everlasting condemnation. Until then, all that is spirit is like the wind to the natural man.

 

[ScottA]

No.
It is about “separating… Deniers from Believers… and ALL being able to SEE WHO is doing the Seperating.

It comes to a Point… when THIS World Earth… once again…becomes Overwhelmed with Wickedness and Evil, and Anger’s God…To the Point, He Again Shall SEPARATE Each individual man According to the mans Beliefs, With God or Against God…

AND the Separation…Expressly IS Separating what Belongs to / Controlled by the FREEWILL of the man-KIND of being…
His BODY.
His BELIEF in his Natural spirit (Hearts Truth).

* Gods PROMISE…FOR THOSE mankind of beings…WHO…
Freely Heartfully Testify Belief IN Him…
Freely Lay Down Their Own BODILY Life (unto Death) FOR Their (Word) Testimony of Belief IN Him…

* God SHALL …
* Forgive their soul and Restore it back to Good.
* Forgive their natural spirit and Give them Gods SEED to birth them a New born Again Spirit.
* Forgive their Body / and RAISE UP their Dead Body, IN a Cleansed, Sanctified, Incorruptible, Glorified Body….
That “That man” become MADE “in the Likeness of Their God”.

And thus is fulfilled… a man Glorified IN God AND God Glorified IN that man.

Rom 8:
[17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, [B{that we may be also glorified together.[/B]
[30] Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also-glorified.

2 Thes 1:
[10] When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

[12] That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be-glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thes 3:​

[1] Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:


Rather the Teaching of God.
A human IS a Created Body of Dust of the Earth, broadly called a man-KIND of being….
A man-KIND of being IS “his body”.
It’s “Life IS BLOOD”.
It IS “FORMED” By the Hand of God.
It is “MADE” an individual “Living Being” The moment God Breaths INTO that Body…
A LIVING Soul.
ALL Souls Belong TO God.
ALL Life IN ALL Souls (is Gods Breath) and Belongs TO God.
The NATURAL spirit of man, IS His Truth IN his HEART.

* Any man Can Kill his own Body.
Any man can Kill another man’s Body.
No man can KILL a man’s soul in his body.
Any man or Spirit can “influence” a man’s Natural spirits belief.



Disagree. Rather it is a precise understanding OF Gods Teaching to OFFER manKIND an ORDER and WAY to become MADE BY the POWER of GOD…
WHOLLY, WHOLE….AND HOLY…
BODY , SOUL. SPIRIT
No one said otherwise…. And not the point.
No one said otherwise…and not the point.

The point is about What Natural unsaved men will See…
And what Risen up Glorified men will See.



Glory to God,
Taken

Ugh... You are missing the whole point of "There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." But the flesh, is like a wind that "passeth away, and cometh not again."

 

[ScottA]

Some are already “taken” and return With Him. (sav-eD by Christ…Made Whole. Body, Soul, Spirit…Raptured.
1 Thes 4:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Some SHALL… ( mortals ON Earth still deciding … ) Believe IN God…? Believe Jesus existed ? Die IN their Belief , during the Trib?
1 Thes 4:
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Rev 7:
[11] And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
[12] Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
[13] And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
[14] And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


Glory to God,
Taken

You are referring to 1 Thessalonians 5:23...but it is referring to [before] "unto" the coming of our Lord, not after.

"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thessalonians 5:23​

​

It is after all are raised up before God that "every eye shall see"--and after the flesh returns to the dust to be dissolved with the elements of the earth. Which we [can] know, because He comes not in the clouds in the sky, but "in the clouds of heaven" (Matthew 26:64).

 

[quietthinker]

For WHAT purpose Does the Lord Descend FROM High Heavens TO lower Heavens Clouds?​

Wasn't it to have a beer?

 

[Taken]

Yes, the Word was always Spirit. However, He also came fully as a man, born of a women and of flesh...

Yes born of a woman… but NOT the SEED, or Flesh OF a human…
Not OF the Dust of the Earth such are Humans and land animals…
Not a human…but in the Likeness as a human…. IN a body God “Prepared”.

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore (FOR) when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

For the Saved… same in Reverse…
For They IN Christ…(saved by Christ, His Church / Bride)
For They …(saved by God, before Christ on Earth, After Rapture, (God saving Israel and (last minute , so to speak any Heartful believer before their death), during the Trib)

…A Body, in the Likeness of God is prepared for THEM…
Rapture…(Christs saved)
First Resurrection…(Gods saved)

flesh which cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. So, the idea of "glorified bodies" suggests glorified flesh, which is not biblically true,

I didn’t speak of the flesh…
Rather “the Body, the soul, the spirit”…

for the flesh returns to the dust and is dissolved with the beggarly elements of this world.

Yes. Human Flesh. And some raised in New Glorified (incorruption, holy, can not die,) body.

Is that not how you see it? Are you or are you not speaking of the flesh being "glorified?"

No the Body.
Presently… it is Human Flesh that Covers a human body.
What body shall they be risen up…
We don’t know…
Flesh like Now?
I doubt that…. Because if like now, then Why did God have to Prepared Jesus a body (with flesh) for men to See?

What we do know is the body we shall have shall be in Gods likeness…form.
Head, arms, hands, trunk, legs, feet…
But flesh like a human, I doubt.

As for every eye seeing...what is missing in your explanation, is that all are first raised up in the spirit, some to everlasting life, and some to everlasting condemnation.

I spoke of the Rapture, before Trib.
Those raised After the Trib, is the raising up called…
First Resurrection
And Last (second) Resurrection.

Until then, all that is spirit is like the wind to the natural man.

Do not agree…
They IN Christ… occupy his Risen Body…
Ie….”IN” Christ….and His spirit “IN them…

Unique, Specific… than those believers, following, BUT NOT committed.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[ScottA]

Yes born of a woman… but NOT the SEED, or Flesh OF a human…
Not OF the Dust of the Earth such are Humans and land animals…
Not a human…but in the Likeness as a human…. IN a body God “Prepared”.

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore (FOR) when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

For the Saved… same in Reverse…
For They IN Christ…(saved by Christ, His Church / Bride)
For They …(saved by God, before Christ on Earth, After Rapture, (God saving Israel and (last minute , so to speak any Heartful believer before their death), during the Trib)

…A Body, in the Likeness of God is prepared for THEM…
Rapture…(Christs saved)
First Resurrection…(Gods saved)

No, fully man, even if fathered by the Holy Spirit--"The Son of man."--which was the requirement of salvation for mankind.

But Hebrews 10:5... No...that body "thou prepared me"--is the church... a body "being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God."

 

[Ziggy]

I don't hear body as an individual. I hear body as in a collective, like a body of water, or the church as a whole.

The 'body" is glorified.

just thinking

hugs

 

[Ziggy]

Is a Kingdom a kingdom if the kingdom has no people?
Or is it the people that make up the Kingdom?
What is the Kingdom of God?
For where 2 or more are gathered together, there am I in the midst.
thinking..

 

[ScottA]

No the Body.
Presently… it is Human Flesh that Covers a human body.
What body shall they be risen up…
We don’t know…
Flesh like Now?
I doubt that…. Because if like now, then Why did God have to Prepared Jesus a body (with flesh) for men to See?

What we do know is the body we shall have shall be in Gods likeness…form.
Head, arms, hands, trunk, legs, feet…
But flesh like a human, I doubt.

You are mixing what is only mixed for a time, or rather present for a time. You say "Flesh like now? I doubt that"--and that is good. But then you say "God likeness...form", which is an oxymoron at best. God is spirit and does not have "form" per se. Can He manifest in "form", sure, and thus He made manifest all the world. But that is a subject, that short of understanding that what is spirit has no form...is way beyond what is called for here. Or is it? I can tell you what is true of God and form--but what you are flirting with even to go there--is "shadow of turning" which I can explain, but such is not to be after this, not after all are raised up and all the world passes away.

Meanwhile, we need not debate, but believe that each part is [only] revealed in its time, as God has appointed. “Therefore every scribe instructed concerning the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old.”

 

[Taken]

Yes, the Word was always Spirit. However, He also came fully as a man, born of a women and of flesh...

Yes born of a woman… but NOT the SEED, or Flesh OF a human…
Not OF the Dust of the Earth such are Humans and land animals…
Not a human…but in the Likeness as a human…. IN a body God “Prepared”.

Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore (FOR) when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

For the Saved… same in Reverse…
For They IN Christ…(saved by Christ, His Church / Bride)
And…
For They …(saved by God, before Christ on Earth, After Rapture, (God saving Israel and (last minute , so to speak any Heartful believer before their death), during the Trib)

…A Body, in the “Likeness” of God is prepared for THEM…
Rapture…((Christs saved)
First Resurrection…(Gods saved)

flesh which cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. So, the idea of "glorified bodies" suggests glorified flesh, which is not biblically true,

I didn’t speak of the flesh…
Rather “the Body, the soul, the spirit”…

for the flesh returns to the dust and is dissolved with the beggarly elements of this world.

Yes. Human Flesh.

Is that not how you see it? Are you or are you not speaking of the flesh being "glorified?"

No the Body.
Presently… it is Human Flesh that Covers a human body.
For In what covering their body has, I don’t know.
But shall their body be in Gods Likeness…
Glorified, holy, sinless, head, arms, hands, trunk, legs, feet… I say yes.

As for every eye seeing...what is missing in your explanation, is that all are first raised up in the spirit, some to everlasting life, and some to everlasting condemnation. Until then, all that is spirit is like the wind to the natural man.

I was speaking of Rapture…
When / how Christ redeems His Church / Bride… Before the Trib…body’s up off the Earth, to clouds /air.
…
the First Resurrection is a later Raising of body’s God Saves….bodies from grave to face of Earth
…
the second last Resurrection is a later Raising of unsaved bodys from the grave sent to Hell for destruction.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Is a Kingdom a kingdom if the kingdom has no people?
Or is it the people that make up the Kingdom?
What is the Kingdom of God?
For where 2 or more are gathered together, there am I in the midst.
thinking..

A kingdom is simply a specific boarder, with occupants, a Head ruler, laws /rules.
(Lands, countries, reservations, territories, etc.)

A nation, citizens, Chief, president or whatever Title, governance, laws /rules.

Also… a home, its boundaries, head of house, occupants, governance, rules…

A mans home is his castle… equated with a throne, governance, authority.

 

[Taken]

Ugh... You are missing the whole point of "There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." But the flesh, is like a wind that "passeth away, and cometh not again."

Not missing the point…
Familiar with a Natural body… plainly seen.
Know the expectation of a spiritual body, but know NOT what it looks like… have never seen.

My point was about WHO can see what…
When Christ Returns… those transformed into their own Spiritual body… can THEN See other Spiritual bodies…
Christ Jesus’ body and Angels bodies…

The mortals on Earth… will Not see Spiritual bodies… but rather SEE Jesus, in the body God prepared FOR human men to SEE.

 

[Taken]

No, fully man,

Fully man… ? Men come from the dust of the Earth.

Spirits have the POWER to Appear AS men.

even if fathered by the Holy Spirit--"The Son of man."--which was the requirement of salvation for mankind.

But Hebrews 10:5... No...that body "thou prepared me"--is the church... a body "being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God."

The body God Prepared … HIS WORD … was, did, appear AS a human, earthly man…
As Angels HAVE Done and Continue to Do.


Today men appear (their outside) as females… But yet ARE males inside…narrow pelvis, no ovaries, no womb, no fallopian tubes, no milk glands, etc.

 

[Taken]

You are mixing what is only mixed for a time, or rather present for a time. You say "Flesh like now? I doubt that"--and that is good. But then you say "God likeness...form", which is an oxymoron at best.

No. A mystery of Gods Ability and Power…

God IS a Spirit.
Angels ARE spirits.
Human men “HAVE” a spirit.

God is spirit and does not have "form" per se.

Because you have Not Seen His Form…
His Head, His Hands, His Feet, etc.
Neither have I…yet.

Can He manifest in "form", sure, and thus He made manifest all the world. But that is a subject, that short of understanding that what is spirit has no form...is way beyond what is called for here. Or is it? I can tell you what is true of God and form--but what you are flirting with even to go there--is "shadow of turning" which I can explain, but such is not to be after this, not after all are raised up and all the world passes away.

Meanwhile, we need not debate, but believe that each part is [only] revealed in its time, as God has appointed. “Therefore every scribe instructed concerning the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who brings out of his treasure things new and old.”

Sure.

 

[Ziggy]

I'm not arguing, I just hear it differently.
The body God Prepared ... HIS WORD... that did appear as earthy man to me is Israel as a whole.
Jdg 20:1
Then all the children of Israel went out, and the congregation was gathered together as one man, from Dan even to Beersheba, with the land of Gilead, unto the LORD in Mizpeh.

Yet to understand the depth of the message a singular person held the collective within himself.
So, if your eye offend thee, is not speaking of your eyeball in particular, but that part of the body which is in conflict with the rest of the body. Or if that hand offend thee, you know, the one that rather steal than give, cut it off.

There are so many ways that God speaks to people. And everyone is right and everyone is wrong, and nobody has the whole picture.
Because we see in part, through a glass darkly.

As long as it all leads to the Glory of God, then it is ok if we all hear it differently as long as we are all on the same path.
That is my opinion.
Hugs

The test is, can you disagree without becoming disagreeable?

Because eventually everything will fall away and the only thing left standing will be these 2 things.
Love and Faith.

 

[Ziggy]

 

[Ziggy]

What is holding back the manifestations of the sons of God?

If that "man of perdition" or that "man of sin" be taken out of the way, then what is left?
Or, if everything that is good and wholesome and godly is taken out of the way, then what is left?

We will either have heaven or hell.
There will either be peace or chaos.
We will live in Hate, or we will live in Love.

This is the crossroad.

And when something is taken out of the way then what remains will be revealed.

2Th 2:7
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

What is the "mystery" of iniquity?
Is Sin a mystery?
Who is the one that is letting?
and is the one letting the one to be taken out of the way?

And if the one letting the mystery of the iniquity work, how will it be taken away?
Does the "MYSTERY" need to be revealed?

Is bringing things to light a way of bringing the mystery of the thing to an end?

How do you dispel a mystery?

Manifestation.

Just thinking
Hugs

 

[Taken]

I don't hear body as an individual. I hear body as in a collective, like a body of water, or the church as a whole.

The 'body" is glorified.

just thinking

hugs

“Body” is an individual - one human
When that individual - becomes made a part of a “greater” established Whole- That “Body” is a group, a church, a bride.

Similar to Thousands of individual water droplets, make up an “established body” of this lake or that lake.

Context.
Individual body’s … making up a whole established joined group.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I'm not arguing, I just hear it differently.

K

The body God Prepared ... HIS WORD... that did appear as earthy man to me is Israel as a whole.

Disagree.
Gods Word, IS God.
Gods Word came forth out of Gods Mouth.
God called His Word “a holy thing”
God prepared a Body for His Word.
God sent His Word to A place ON Earth.
God Gave that Body A Title (Son of Man)
God Gave that Body a name JESUS.
God Revealed That Body would (and did) have many other Titles… ie Son of God, Lord, Christ, Savior, Priest, etc. (and more Titles to Follow).

Isa 55:
[10] For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Luke 1:
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore alsothat holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Isa 9:
[6] For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jdg 20:1
Then all the children of Israel went out, and the congregation was gathered together as one man, from Dan even to Beersheba, with the land of Gilead, unto the LORD in Mizpeh.

Yet to understand the depth of the message a singular person held the collective within himself.
So, if your eye offend thee, is not speaking of your eyeball in particular, but that part of the body which is in conflict with the rest of the body. Or if that hand offend thee, you know, the one that rather steal than give, cut it off.

There are so many ways that God speaks to people. And everyone is right and everyone is wrong, and nobody has the whole picture.
Because we see in part, through a glass darkly.

As long as it all leads to the Glory of God, then it is ok if we all hear it differently as long as we are all on the same path.
That is my opinion.
Hugs

The test is, can you disagree without becoming disagreeable?

Because eventually everything will fall away and the only thing left standing will be these 2 things.
Love and Faith.

Thanks.

 

[jeffweeder]

In brief…
Is to Be Seen …

He is seen appearing in vengeance to eternally separate those who did not accept the Gospel.

6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

In brief …
Is to Separate …

See above and continue reading...,
9 These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.

Yes “His Saints Glorify Him”.

No, he glorifies us,

Matthew 24:30
And at that time the sign of the Son of Man [coming in His glory] will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth [and especially Israel] will mourn [regretting their rebellion and rejection of the Messiah], and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory [in brilliance and splendor].

Colossians 3:4
When Christ, who is our life, appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

1 Peter 5:4
And when the Chief Shepherd (Christ) appears, you will receive the [conqueror’s] unfading crown of glory.