Forgiving others though it may be difficult

[Born_Again]

As Christians were are called to forgive. Sometimes it seems difficult. Someone may have wronged you in such a way causing great pain or distress. And you find yourself struggling to forgive. Matthew 6:14-15 says "For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. "

Uh oh.... So now we have a conflict. It may seem impossible to forgive them, but if you don't forgive them, the He will not forgive your sins. So now we are presented with direct scripture commanding us to. Or, is the reason you cant forgive someone else because you cant forgive yourself?
1 John 1:9 says "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness"
Remember what Christ gave so you could be forgiven. He gave the ultimate sacrifice so you could be saved. If you cant forgive, can you truly show the love of Christ? Is it possible you have your own transgressions to deal with before you can forgive others? Numbers 14:19-21 says " In accordance with your great love, forgive the sin of these people, just as you have pardoned them from the time they left Egypt until now." 20 The LORD replied, "I have forgiven them, as you asked. 21 Nevertheless, as surely as I live and as surely as the glory of the LORD fills the whole earth,

Even when the pain seems to great to go forward and forgive them, you must, for Christ commands it. Still struggling? Ask Christ for the strength to forgive those who hurt you. If you really want to blow His socks off, ask for the one who hurt you to be blessed. Ask for Him to bless them with the Holy Spirit!!!! They deserve the same grace you have. This is one of my personal favorites....Mark 11:25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins. " There it is!! Plain as day!!!

If you have truly forgiven them you will feel the weight lift and feel His grace upon you.

Micah 7:18-19 Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy. 19 You will again have compassion on us; you will tread our sins underfoot and hurl all our iniquities into the depths of the sea."

 

[Michael Snow]

Forgiveness can be a hard subject to discuss, not just because some of us Christians are like the unjust steward who was forgiven but refused to forgive, but also because forgiveness has become entwined with and distorted by the therapeutic deism of our day. Notably, repentance is often left out.
If you or anyone would care to take a look at my chapter on this, I'd be glad to send the pdf. <<Mod note: Link Removed.>>

Here is a short excerpt:


Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance . . .

–Dietrich Bonhoeffer

The exception proves the rule.

We have rules and we have exceptions—each has its proper place.

Today, however, when the topic is forgiveness, we hear many Christians thoughtlessly citing the exception just as if it were the rule; it appears as if they have never heard and applied the true rule. (Shades of Murphy’s Law!) We hear the exception from Jesus on the cross (an exceptional circumstance indeed!) with reference to his executioners: “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do” (Luke 23:34).

When this verse is quoted out of context, the emphasis always falls on “Father, forgive them.” The remainder of the verse is all but forgotten. Who are the “they” who “know not what they do”? I. Howard Marshall explains the verse in this manner: Jesus, addressing God, “asks him to forgive ‘them’ (the executioners, possibly all who are involved in his crucifixion), on the grounds of their ignorance; their sin is unwitting.”

But Jesus also teaches us the clear rule that forgiveness is conditional based upon the repentance of the sinner: “Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him” (Luke 17:3).

First, note that this concerns a “brother,” that is, a fellow believer.

Here, Jesus’ exhortation to forgive rests upon the conditional phrase, “if he repents.” The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia states, “Jesus recognized that there are conditions to be fulfilled before forgiveness can be granted. Forgiveness is part of a mutual relationship; the other part is the repentance of the offender. God does not forgive without repentance, nor is it required of mankind.”1 (This aspect of a mutual relationship has been banned from today’s self-centered, therapeutic notions about forgiveness.)

In expositing Peter’s preaching on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:1-47), F. F. Bruce states, “It would be a mistake to link the words ‘for the forgiveness of sins’ with the command ‘be baptized’ to the exclusion of the prior command to repent. . . . blotting out of the people’s sins is a direct consequence of their repenting and turning to God.”

And we must not confuse these two aspects: though forgiveness is conditional on repentance, it is also unlimited, even to seventy times seven.

 

[Breadandsalt]

Forgiveness is so important.

One thing that has helped me is knowing that we can truly forgive but we may not want to have Sunday dinner with the person we forgave, but the forgiveness can be completely genuine anyway. This put some weight off of me, when I realized this. Some preacher that I regard highly (who I think is is mature, well grounded in love and so on) said it... and I choose to believe it. It makes sense, I think!

 

[clark thompson]

Christ has forgiven us, forgiving others may be hard but it shows we serve Him.

 

[pom2014]

Well until Christians in the US petition their government to end capital punishment, this sentiment is all talk.

 

[the stranger]

The bible supports capital punishment as do I for many reasons but that is a different subject.

Great article.

 

[pom2014]

My King doesn't support eye for an eye. And commands to forgive or be not forgiven.

So I don't see capital punishment as anything but old wine.

 

[Dan57]

We are instructed to forgive others just as our Father has forgiven us. When we confess our sins to the Lord and repent of them, God forgives our transgressions. I believe that's the same basis on which God expects us to forgive those who have transgressed against us. In other words, if someone steals your lawnmower out of your garage and refuses to apologize (confess) and refuses to return it (repents), I don't think a Christian is obligated to forgive them. "If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him" (Luke 17:3).

Also, just because someone repents and you forgive them, it doesn't mean that they aren't liable or responsible for what they did. If someone wrecks your car, you can forgive them, but it doesn't mean they aren't responsible to reimburse you for the damages, that's what true repentance is. Its the same with a murderer, they can repent of the crime and be forgiven, but it doesn't absolve them from paying the penalty of the land. Spiritual forgiveness does not prevent us from reaping what we sow in the here and now. jmo

 

[the stranger]

Romans 13:4 if you do what is evil be afraid, for it (the government) bear the sword for nothing; for it is a ministry of God; an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil. -- Yes, we always need to forgive on our behalf, whether asked to or not just as Christ died for all but only those who accept His forgiveness are forgiven however, as stated above, our sin was paid for. It was wiped clean by Jesus because He took our punishment for is. The result of sin was paid for and did not disappear without being paid for. If we sin or rebel, as found all over scripture, we may be forgiven but we still must pay a price.

 

[pom2014]

Ah Romans 13. Justifies totalitarian states and vengeance of man against man.

But how often do those that quote it finish the passage with 13:8?

Few do, because it would cancel their zeal for blood. And well then they'd be drinking new wine.

Which as The King said they don't think tastes as good as the old.
@dan57

Guess what we all murdered the King.

You, me, every one.

Guilty.
Sentenced.
Commuted.

Now don't you think you could do the same?
Don't you think you SHOULD do the same?

Remember your answer may invite a visit from thetormentors.

 

[the stranger]

13:8 starts a different lead. I believe you see no love in punishment. Do you believe in an-eternal hell for all the disobedient? Do you believe a period of pain would cause them to love God? Do you know US prisons have over a 80% return rate? Some learn their lesson while sadly most only learn the system. It is love to ensure a fair trial. It is love to do justice for the victims. I know for certain there are some who I hope never see the light of day again without a change of heart. God established the death penalty. Is there a different God in the NT? Human life is so precious and no one has the right to take another life outside self defense, war, and capital punishment. Sadly, many do not abide by these rules of moral conduct. Should we put them with your family??!! It is only God who truly changes hearts. We will not get into the practicality of it. However, one must have set sound rules and proof beyond a shadow of doubt knowing we too will stand before God Almighty. If we allow a killer to continue to kill what message does that send?

 

[pom2014]

13:8 is the basis of they passage.

It says to honor the Powers that be, but not if it makes you break the commandments.

If you don't add that you're ignoring every single thing the King taught. To resist things that cause sin and defilement. If you only follow the first seven verses you'll allow terrible nations to rule without cease. If you have a way to change that without using carnal means you're obligated by our liege to do it. Because that is what you'd want for yourself.

To kill a killer means that you refuse the commuted sentence that the King gave you.

He spared you, spare them. Incarcerate not kill.
Killing our brothers and sisters when we were told eye for an eye passed is old wine. Don't make what the King said about users of old wine to be true.

Unless you want the same thing done to you. Death for death. Blood for blood. Is that what you wish? For if you sow it you'll reap it.

The father handles vengeance. We no longer do.

Man is poor at the job.

We are to be new creatures. The same old fallen ones. I say to you if you live by eye for an eye, you'll go blind.

Stop now while you can.

 

[the stranger]

Prom 2014, I read the different view points on capital punishment and scriptures used but I would like to go on a different slant for a minute.

Please think before answering. Across the world there are many who are raped and torchered in ways we cannot comprehend, where your very life means nothing at all to them. If you die after great and long suffering they just kick your body out of the way. We see much of this in the middle east right now. Do you believe in the right of self defense? Would you kill if you could in the midst of torchure and if not maybe you have never been. I promise you I would. Do they have this right to live? The police do not think so if they resist arrest. I do not think so if I can kill them before they kill me.

If you do believe in self defense why should one not be subject to death if they do not get killed after the fact the same as during the attack if the result is a human life? If you do not believe in self defense you are a sitting duck. Do we not have an obligation to God to do justice in this world?

Perhaps a bit later I will give you some scripture as to see what you do with them.

 

[pom2014]

We, you and I murdered the King. We killed him.

So if he stayed your death sentence shouldn't you do the same for your brothers and sisters?

In the parable of A Certain King if we don't forgive others as we were forgiven we will be turned over to the tormentors.

So now you have to ask yourself, will you choose your own way over what our liege said for us to do?

As for self defense again I defer to the King. Fear not those can destroy your body but not your soul. Carnal war is not our place. We are in a spiritual one. Killing one another is only playing into the hands of the enemy. It's old wine and sign of an old wine skin. That's no longer our way. That's fallen mans way.

I again counsel to leave that old way behind. It leads to disaster.

 

[KingJ]

I agree with all you said Pom2014 except for self defense. Sure we must do our best to avoid killing our enemy, but protecting weak > killing enemy. Protecting rape victim > killing rapist.

If the enemy is in prison we apply the Geneva convention plus as Christians visiting them in prison and making sure that they have sufficient cigarettes, are not themselves being raped, take care of their family and finances.

What would Jesus have done to the person that threw a stone at Mary after He said 'whoever is without sin cast the first stone'?

 

[pom2014]

When they came for Yeshua in the garden, Peter cut the eat off one of them. Did Yeshua say get em boys?

No he stopped it, rebuked Peter and then healed the man this was done to.

That's what was wrong. To attack one another. Even when the disciples were arming themselves they said they had two swords. Yeshua said that was enough because he knew that fighting was not going to do anything profitable.

Two swords against so many? Was he nuts? Didn't he want to be defended. Look at scripture he told them IF he needed protection he'd get a legion of angels to come.

Why? Because they are capable of doing the will of God correctly. Men cannot they cannot see all ends.

So you kill the rapist and then what? Now that you've executed him you've also removed his ability to come to The King.

You should have been killed for murdering our King. You deserve that. But you've been spared to come to him and place faith in Grace.

But by killing that rapist you've denied him that which you were spared to have.

Who ARE YOU?

A man. And nothing more.

Just as we should not be killing babies in the womb so we should once they leave the womb? Is it now ok?

See short sighted man. Fallible. Not fit to administer vengeance.

It really bothers me that people want to follow the King but still hold onto old ways. It's old wine and it's trying to tell our sovereign you know better.

 

[KingJ]

1. But by killing that rapist you've denied him that which you were spared to have.

2. Just as we should not be killing babies in the womb so we should once they leave the womb? Is it now ok?

3. See short sighted man. Fallible.

4.Not fit to administer vengeance.

5. It really bothers me that people want to follow the King but still hold onto old ways. It's old wine and it's trying to tell our sovereign you know better.

1. Its the lessor of two evils. We are told to love our enemies. We are also told to look after our families. We are also told to help and protect the weak.
2. A baby is harming nobody. Killing a baby in the womb is clearly unscriptural.
3. Paul disagrees with you in 1 Cor 6:3.
4. I agree we aren't. We don't send someone to prison because we want vengeance. God gets vengeance on all in hell / His own way. He knows what drives us on a level we cannot grasp.
5. Amen. But let's not throw the baby out with the bath water. You and I are the devils children if we do not help and protect the weak and innocent. The irony.

When they came for Yeshua in the garden, Peter cut the eat off one of them. Did Yeshua say get em boys?

No he stopped it, rebuked Peter and then healed the man this was done to.

You are looking at this all wrong. What would Jesus have thought of His disciples if they did NOT try defend Him....????

Of course Jesus did not need His disciples or legions of angels defending Him, He is God and was on a mission. His only disappointment with His disciples was that He would hope after them being with Him for so long that they grasp He is God (needs no protection) and is on a mission to be a Lamb to the slaughter.

 

[pom2014]

Goodness, had not Yeshua told them not to fear those that can only destroy the body before the altercation in the garden?

Why didn't they resist when one by one they too were killed by others?

And two swords? Untrained men with two swords. They'd more than likely hurt themselves more than others. Peter only managed an ear. An ear. Oh can't fight anymore, my ears gone off time out!

Violence against each other only reaps more violence. It's old wine. Can you not see it? Can you not see the error?

And lesser of two evils? We don't support ANY evil. None. Let alone a lesser.

Look of you like drinking old wine please do it. But don't try and deceive me into thinking it tastes good when it reeks of vinegar.

 

[KingJ]

1 And lesser of two evils? We don't support ANY evil. None. Let alone a lesser.

2 Look of you like drinking old wine please do it. But don't try and deceive me into thinking it tastes good when it reeks of vinegar.

1. The context of my statement does not actually imply doing evil. Self defense is not evil. Lessor of two evils is just a saying / I am trying to help you use logic. You are being pedantic.

2. Really? I am drinking old wine because I will defend my daughter by killing the rapist...? You my friend have not drunk anything from scripture if you are this naïve.

What would you do if your daughter was being raped by a guy much bigger then you? Killing him = good. Watching = something I doubt even the devil would do.

 

[Born_Again]

Well, I certainly didn't expect this kind of response LOL. The basis for this post was as follows.... Recently, I have had to overcome a lot of wrong doings towards me.... I really needed to forgive.. But most certainly could not. Why??? Because I could not forgive myself and my own past. But I soon did... How? Well, I'll tell you. I only read a few scriptures, only to make sure my request wasn't unreasonable and that I was truly following Christ's commands... Stay with me here.... So, I spent an entire week, by myself, with God, in prayer.. Yes, that is how I spent my holiday break. I used a weeks vacation from work and spent it praying. I prayed for the strength to forgive myself so that I could forgive others. That week was an emotional rollercoaster for me but the next Sunday morning.... I woke up as if my life was starting over again. And the first thing I did was let the person who hurt me know. I forgave them. Because I could finally forgive myself. I was free!

When I read the thread on here that was posted after my original post, I get discouraged only because I simply stated we needed to forgive. And, in true fashion, certain people saw nothing more fitting then to tear it down with false ideal ology and personal misguided agendas. It was a simple and pure message of Christ's commandments. I will pray for those who seem to have hurt inside that they themselves need to overcome.