Forgiving others

[WHO ME]

That's just one reason why I don't believe OSAS.
I don't even believe the salvation process is done until we actually die and meet God.
That's why I never say "I'm saved", past tense, as if it's already a done deal.
The salvation process will be finalised in the future, after death, out of this world

Good on you my friend, james should be one of the strongest parts for your belief to stay that way.... God expects us as branches to do His will (works). After all as branches as John 15:1-6 teaches us....

1) I (Jesus) am the vine and God the Father is the husbandman. The one who prunes the branches
2) every branch IN ME that does not bare fruit (works) is taken away
4) abide in me as a branch cannot bear fruit of Itself unliess it abides in me (v1 Jesus)
6) if a branch does not abide in me (doing Gods will or works) it is cast forth and is withered and men gather it to be burned with fire



We know only a believer both can abide and produce fruit in Christ.... otherwise faith without works is dead to be burned..

 

[WHO ME]

The good news is your dead faith can come back with your repentance but if you die or Jesus comes and to gather you together and your in a state of dead faith, your sunk

Its all about staying the course like paul and trying to never draw back to destruction is the main goal....

 

[NotTheRock]

Thank you for the apology - quite unnecessary, I assure you. I can't remember you being a jackass to me, but thanks anyway.

Thank you brother.

 

[WHO ME]

Thank you brother.

Alot of people never do this online...good for you NotTheRock

 

[NotTheRock]

Alot of people never do this online...good for you NotTheRock

Thanks but I don't deserve to be praised for apologizing for my rude behavior. I must be better.

 

[Taken]

I see it that if you stay the course your salvation is good to go...
2timothy 4:7 paul stats

I have fought the good fight I have finnished My course, I have Kept the faith...As our example

Paul also says in hebrews 10:26 For if we wilfully sin there is NO MORE sacrifice for our sins....

He ends it at 10:39 But we are NOT of them who draw back to destruction..
(The good news is that if you ask forgivness and start back doing Gods will you are good to go again)
So while you stay the course you have a sacrifice for your sins but if you fall away that sacrifice Ends and those who do fall away draw back to destruction...

The good news is you just repent and start doing Gods works and your good to go, but if not (hebrews 10:27) but a certain fearful looking for of judgement and fiery indignation...

10:38 the Just (saved) shall live by Faith BUT if any man Draws back my soul shall have no pleasure in Him


Pretty clear to me osas isnt true

Pretty clear to me osas isnt true

Agree, OSAS is NOT applicable TO YOU (and some others like )@Armor of God.

Agree, A bodily Death IS Required, Before the Forgiveness and Gift of Salvation IS Given.

However, OSAS is Applicable to me…
Because, I Freely Gave my body unto Death, crucified with Jesus’ Body.

The body which I now live, is IN Christ Jesus’ Risen Body, and He IN me.

The Scriptural Application (for me) IS:
Presence Tense…
I Cor 1:
[18] For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Sure… “Working out my Salvation”.
The Lord Saved my soul…accomplished.
The Lord Quickened my spirit..accomplished.

My Carnal Mind?
My JOB /WORK IS TO MAKE my Carnal Mind, my Logical, ever changing…Carnal Mind…
YIELD, Accept, the Spiritual Truth, the Lord God, Quickened IN my Born Again Spirit.

As THAT “WORK”… “Progresses”…I am Accomplishing, (working out), pleasing to God… MAKING my MIND, become Like “Jesus’ Mind…

“IF”…you ARE NOT, already Saved… you fall in the category, of “BELIEVERS”…who have NOT confessed their Belief, thus have Not received their Gift, thus, have not LAID down their Life unto Death, thus are Not indwelt with the Power of God (ie. Christ)…
And
can Certainly HOPE by their “own power they can Continue Believing” … to the moment of Their mortal death…and IF So…
God shall save them THEN, and bring with God, their saved departed Soul.
1 Thes 4:14

While One is Hoping…
An other IN CHRIST is assured.
1 John 5:13

FREEWILL to choose as you please.
And thereafter, Apply applicable Scripture TO your “same old self” or “new self, as per your choice and works the Lord Accomplishes IN you.”

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I've been waiting for you.... so I will ask you this.... you believe osas I know, so I only want you to deal with the verses I gave and dont go off anywhere else if you could....

When you first believe it is Gods grace thru Christ and when you believe on His(jesus) name and you are saved.... I believe as you do..

BUT I believe that it then moves onto your walk after that saving is where osas is false so I ask you to keep it simple....

If osas is true as you teach.. than why oh why does James also teach...

2:24 ye see then how that by WORKS A MAN is Justified and NOT by faith alone...

2:26 for as the BODY without the SPIRIT is DEAD, so FAITH (osas) without WORKS IS DEAD also

2:14 what does it profit my brother though a man say I have Faith and not WORKS

CAN FAITH SAVE HIM?

2:17 even so FAITH IF IT HAS NOT WORKS IS DEAD...

see works come AFTER you have believed on His name during your walk as a believer..

And if you dont have works your FAITH IS DEAD..... CAN FAITH (ALONE) SAVE HIM?

Remember in your answer that faith without works is like the body without the spirit
Which is what an unbeliever has

Its quite clear that your talking grace thru faith but James is talking about life after that which is your Walk.... the alive faith that saved you to begin with has now DIED because you have No Works ..

So again only use what verses above from James to show me how a dead faith with no works still makes you good to go with God..

What is WORK?
An EFFORT.

What WORKS is James speaking to?
A mans EFFORT.

#1 Faith, is a Gift from God, FOR HEARING Gods Word…

#1 Mans EFFORT:
Accept an invitation to Go HEAR Gods Word.
(Gathering, Church, Bible study, Reading The Bible, Etc.)

#2 Belief, is A Work, To Believe what he hears.
# Verify, in / with Scripture, that what he hears, parallels with Gods Word.
# Mans EFFORT.

# 3 Calling…( on the Advocate, JESUS, whom God Sent )
# Mans EFFORT.

# 4 Confessing TO Jesus, by man’s Word, the Belief man Believes in his Heart.
# Mans EFFORT.

# 5 mans Willingness To Reveal his Regret, Sorrow, to the Lord Jesus, For having HAD, Not Believed…And ASKS the Lord FOR Forgiveness, For having NOT Believed.
# Mans EFFORT.

# 6 Willingness / Agreement (For his Belief) To Lay Down his Bodily Life unto Death, As did Jesus, and WITH Jesus.
Crucified WITH JESUS.
# Mans EFFORT to Surrender his Life.

Each step, a man Freely chooses, IS Works, Effort, of said man.

The Response Works, EFFORT, of, from, Christ the Lord… reflects, What Was Offered the man…what was promised a man WHO accomplished such Works…And?
Is ONCE and Done!

No longer does such a man…Hope …
he “will be”;
Soul Saved,
Spirit Quickened,
Body Risen Manifested Glorified…

The mans Calling, Confession, Surrender and TRUST in the Lord God IS:
All Verified By God, and Acceptable TO Him.

I do not HOPE for what I already See / Have.
Trust, Assured.

Rom 8:
[24] For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

But no doubt, Some men, continue to HOPE FOR, what they can not SEE they already Have.
Doubt, Wonder.

Rom 8:
[25] But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Until people understand that saved by grace is by grace thru faith (no works at all) and you are saved...

Understanding WHAT “Works ARE” and WHICH WORKS…
BONDS…
Establishes and Cements a Forever Relationship BOND between A man and God…

And …
WHICH WORKS…
Gains REWARDS…
Are REWARDS… that has Nothing to do with “BECOMING made Saved or REMAINING Saved.

Bonding …

Acts 16:
[30] And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
[31] And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

John 6:
[28] Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Believe and “thou shalt be Saved”
(After bodily Mortal Death)
“IF”
Believe AND Confess Belief, and crucify your Body With Jesus…
You ARE MADE Saved.

Rom 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Rewards…
Matt 16:
[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

What Works?

Good works, others can SEE, Benefit to Others and pleasing to God…
And?
Give God the credit (Glory).

Matt 5:
[16] Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

And?
What about ANY mans works that DO NOT Glorify God?
Burned.

But after that theres your walk or works as living the life of a believer and without works your once living faith that saved you at first has become dead.... works doesnt start until after you are saved.... Faith without Works is a Dead Faith...

Not so.
Any person…any age… saved or not can Glorify God…
Any person…any age…saved or not can DO WORKS… that DO NOT Glorify God.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

That's just one reason why I don't believe OSAS.
I don't even believe the salvation process is done until we actually die and meet God.
That's why I never say "I'm saved", past tense, as if it's already a done deal.
The salvation process will be finalised in the future, after death, out of this world

For SOME, they being Bodily Crucified With Jesus’ Body… IS a bodily Death God Established, Accountable for a man to HAVE voluntarily surrendered his Body unto Death…

And “THUS prepared” to Receive his Gift of Salvation THEN.


*He is Accounted Sav-ED.
*He is Accounted Forgiven. (For having HAD not believed)
*He is Given Gods Seed.
*His Spirit is Reborn.
*He is Indwelt WITH the Spirit of God.
*His name is Thereafter ENTERED into the Lambs Book of Life.
*His name can Never Be Blotted out from Gods Book of Life.
* He is Rescued / Delivered From…—->
ie..He IS He is NOT subject to Suffer Gods Tribulations or Wrath to be sent down upon the Earth and its inhabitants.
*He is “Fully Prepared” ( body, soul, spirit ), for ANY moment in time, When The Lord shall (quickly, without warning ), Redeem / call him UP to the Lord, (in the clouds).
*He thereafter shall Be With the Lord, where-ever the Lord goes…
…To a white cloud above the Earth (men on Earth See)
…On Earth
…In His Earthly Kingdom (Abraham’s Promised Land.)
…On His Throne. (Everlasting Throne in Jerusalem, God Gave to king David and his Descendants)
…With the Lord, when Satan and kings of the whole world Come to Attack The Lords Kingdom, (and are killed in Fire that rains down from Heaven)
…With the Lord when a new Heaven, comes down to a new Earth, and All Earthly Believing Occupants, bodily (mortally Died) and Have Received, (Been Made Whole)…and God, their God.

They IN Christ… is alll-READY Accounted -DELIVERED and ARE…Forever WITH Him.
They IN Christ… Called UP to MEET Him, For the First Time, “SEE Him AS HE IS”… SPIRIT.

1Thes 1:
[10] And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 Jonn 3:
[2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Your reliance ON Hope, is your Option to Believe as you Choose.

My reliance and Trust, Gods Works IN me are already Accomplished…WITHOUT me Having TO SEE …to Believe His Word is True, He is Faithful and His Works IN me Do Not depend on me “SEEING” (my spirit, His Spirit), to believe.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Armour of God]

For SOME, they being Bodily Crucified With Jesus’ Body… IS a bodily Death God Established, Accountable for a man to HAVE voluntarily surrendered his Body unto Death…

And “THUS prepared” to Receive his Gift of Salvation THEN.


*He is Accounted Sav-ED.
*He is Accounted Forgiven. (For having HAD not believed)
*He is Given Gods Seed.
*His Spirit is Reborn.
*He is Indwelt WITH the Spirit of God.
*His name is Thereafter ENTERED into the Lambs Book of Life.
*His name can Never Be Blotted out from Gods Book of Life.
* He is Rescued / Delivered From…—->
ie..He IS He is NOT subject to Suffer Gods Tribulations or Wrath to be sent down upon the Earth and its inhabitants.
*He is “Fully Prepared” ( body, soul, spirit ), for ANY moment in time, When The Lord shall (quickly, without warning ), Redeem / call him UP to the Lord, (in the clouds).
*He thereafter shall Be With the Lord, where-ever the Lord goes…
…To a white cloud above the Earth (men on Earth See)
…On Earth
…In His Earthly Kingdom (Abraham’s Promised Land.)
…On His Throne. (Everlasting Throne in Jerusalem, God Gave to king David and his Descendants)
…With the Lord, when Satan and kings of the whole world Come to Attack The Lords Kingdom, (and are killed in Fire that rains down from Heaven)
…With the Lord when a new Heaven, comes down to a new Earth, and All Earthly Believing Occupants, bodily (mortally Died) and Have Received, (Been Made Whole)…and God, their God.

They IN Christ… is alll-READY Accounted -DELIVERED and ARE…Forever WITH Him.
They IN Christ… Called UP to MEET Him, For the First Time, “SEE Him AS HE IS”… SPIRIT.

1Thes 1:
[10] And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 Jonn 3:
[2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Your reliance ON Hope, is your Option to Believe as you Choose.

My reliance and Trust, Gods Works IN me are already Accomplished…WITHOUT me Having TO SEE …to Believe His Word is True, He is Faithful and His Works IN me Do Not depend on me “SEEING” (my spirit, His Spirit), to believe.


Glory to God,
Taken

I dont know what your trying to say.
All I was saying is that the salvation process is finalised after we die. I don't understand your objection to that fact

 

[Taken]

When I was first saved I believed in eternal security but later I saw verses like
Matt 6:14-15 and didnt believe that anymore

If you forgive men their trespassess against you your Heavenly Father will also forgive you....

If you dont forgive men their trespassess neither will your Father forgive your trespasses...

Only believers have a heavenly Father.

I use to hate my stepmother and wanted to buy about 15 feet of spark plug wire plug one end into the coil and other into the gas tank fill neck with a spark plug on it... but years later I read these verses and if I didnt forgive her as a believer I wasnt going to be forgiven by my Father.

Can someone who believes osas explain how this wont lose someone their salvation if they dont forgive others?

Using the above verses only....

And yes I forgave her and now even love her

Forgiving Trespasses, is a forgiveness BETWEEN men…
You cause a harm, burden, intrusion against a man… you ASK his forgiveness, pardon… or Not…
Steal, cheat, Fraud, Falsely Testify, Bump into them… whatever… you can say, pardon me, Excuse me, You are sorry, will they forgive you, break their things, fix, replace, Ask for forgiveness of your Trespass, harm, anquish you caused Them.

Forgiveness between God and a man is God Forgiveness of SIN, Against God…
Disbelief.
IF / When a man Decides, Chooses to Believe… such man Can (or Not) confess his Belief unto God…
And IF his confession be Heartfully True (which God verifies by searching the man’s true thoughts in the man Heart)
Then God Shall FORGIV that mans SIN (of Disbelief) against God.

If a man FORGIVES other men of Trespasses, so Also shall God forgive that mans Trespasses Against other men (whether or not the other man) forgave his Trespasses.

For Example…a man cheats his wife, employer… apologizes, cheats no more, asks for forgiveness… and forgiveness is Refused…
God will forgive, what was asked, and not given by mankind.

Sin Against God is unbelief.
Man does not Sin Against man.
Man has no requirement to Believe IN men.
Men do not forgive men for Sin.
Men can forgive men of Trespasses.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I dont know what your trying to say.
All I was saying is that the salvation process is finalised after we die. I don't understand your objection to that fact

You do NOT believe, by your own words…
Salvation is Accomplished ONCE…after a believers bodily Death…
And Remains Salvation Given Forever…
And…
A body crucified with Jesus, fulfills THAT mans ONE TIME ( as Scripture teaches ) man Must Die Once.
Thus that man Receives his Salvation THEN…
He has NO requirement to Hope and Wait for his Mortal bodily Death…as You teach.

 

[Taken]

Yes..
Philippians 2:12 salvation, why do we have to Work it out with fear and trembling?

If salvation is a done deal, why oh why would I have to work it out with fear?

To Work it out sounds like its a work in progress

Because, God Changed your Heart, not your Mind… it is your Job to MAKE your Minds thoughts Submissive to your Born Again Spirit (in your Heart) to surrender, be submissive to your Hearts thoughts.

 

[Taken]

The Gospel tells us that God has forgiven all our sins....the whole planet. This good news now goes out to all.
The final result individually is determined by ones relationship with others. (see the story of the sheep and goats....Matt. 25:31-46)

The Gospel teaches God HAS PAID the PRICE for all mens Salvation.

The Gospel teaches God HAS Offered all men the opportunity TO TAKE / Receive / Have Once and Forever His Gift of Salvation.

Some men TAKE their gift, before Mortal Death.

Some men, Hope, wait ((at the time of their Mortal Death to See If they will Receive Salvation.)
If they have Continued Believing in their Heart… They shall Receive their Gift THEN
If they have Stopped Believing, they Forfeit their Gift…. And their Gift is Not Given Them.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[TitusTwoWife]

I grew up believing osas... then I stoped going to church and studied on my own saw that osas wasnt true.

So Ive seen it from both sides, most believers only see it from one side.... thats the difference I think

Since most churches teach osas and when you first go you were like me...

I didnt know and they knew more than me so I just accepted it as true... I didnt study the bible for what it says I studied the bible for what they said it said and thats a mistake

I used to go to church and believe OSAS. But reading Scripture for myself changed that. My husband and I have given up finding a church. We are operating as those who will have a home church if God wills.

Welcome to the forum!