Freedom From Our Sins

[RichardBurger]

The natural realm is a staging ground for the battle of God's creation. It is neither good nor evil. Our souls are also this battleground. Our souls are who we really are. The bodies we live in are neither good nor evil. They are containers of what we are.

We can be either led by the Spirit in Christ and walk in holiness or be led by the desires of the flesh in the carnal nature in death.

The mechanics is to surrender to God so that He accepts the sacrifice of your life towards Him. Then HE crucifies the flesh nature in order to have you walk in newness of life. After that...it is our choice....then WE must crucify (or reckon as crucified) the power that once animated us. God must first do the work so we can continue in it. Otherwise we don't know what death and life really are....we are just speculating.

So in your gospel we must save ourselves by what we do. Faith in Jesus' shed blood just won't do it. That means we are never saved until we die and get to a judgement seat to see if we have been good enough.

To me, that is no gospel at all because it depends on a person's ability to not sin.

What ever happened to the Jesus who saves us by what He did on the cross; the one that fought the war on our sins and won that battle by going to the cross?

 

[Episkopos]

So in your gospel we must save ourselves by what we do. Faith in Jesus' shed blood just won't do it. That means we are never saved until we die and get to a judgement seat to see if we have been good enough.

To me, that is no gospel at all because it depends on a person's ability to not sin.

What ever happened to the Jesus who saves us by what He did on the cross; the one that fought the war on our sins and won that battle by going to the cross?

Jesus procures the means to save all men. This is called grace. This grace enables men to do what they cannot do for themselves. But we must still will to do the will of God. We are not indifferent to the commandments. Love fulfills the commandments. So as we walk in the new power of Christ we automatically walk in holiness. Not through effort but through faith and His abiding love. We must resist evil and not take His salvation for granted...otherwise we sin against God and look upon the blood of Christ as something worth trampling on.

So we are MORE responsible to not sin, but abide in Christ in a walk that causes us to overcome sin and the devil. We can do ALL things through Christ who strengthens us with His grace. It is indeed shameful that this is countered as being wrong on a Christian forum.

 

[Episkopos]

I think that it is important to realize how grace came about.

Jesus Christ died after fusing Himself to His own creation. But death could not hold Him. The result is grace...the power of resurrection for all those who are dead in Christ. So when we are crucified IN Christ, we receive grace to walk in a supernatural power called grace. This is the power of the resurrection. We partake of His death AND THEN His life.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I think that it is important to realize how grace came about.

Jesus Christ died after fusing Himself to His own creation. But death could not hold Him. The result is grace...the power of resurrection for all those who are dead in Christ. So when we are crucified IN Christ, we receive grace to walk in a supernatural power called grace. This is the power of the resurrection. We partake of His death AND THEN His life.

I agree with you completely. The only uncertainity in my mind deals with the many scriptures that clearly indicate our sin is still a matter of great importance to God. Not legally, but from a sanctification standpoint. I don't yet have a handle on if your approach of denying you have sin is profitable. But I am praying about it.

 

[Episkopos]

I agree with you completely. The only uncertainity in my mind deals with the many scriptures that clearly indicate our sin is still a matter of great importance to God. Not legally, but from a sanctification standpoint. I don't yet have a handle on if your approach of denying you have sin is profitable. But I am praying about it.

I'm not saying that we must claim to be sinless. We are still subject to reality. If we sin then we sin. But what I'm saying is that we can overcome sin through surrender to God in Christ. We can then walk in newness of life IN the Spirit. Out of us then flows rivers of the Spirit. When this happens there is no room for sin. We are connected to God and become a conduit for HIS life. Since there is no sin in Christ, so there is no more sin in us. His grace takes over and we remain there through our love and faithfulness to Him. There is a magnetic type force that is the keeping power of God that keeps us in Him. From that place we walk as Jesus walked and we are holy as God is holy. It is very simple...but very hard to get there as it costs us everything. Everything must be forsaken to be attached to Christ. We must "elope" with Him, so to speak.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Since there is no sin in Christ, so there is no more sin in us our walk in faith.

I agree with you completely, except I clarified (as I see it) one point above. I repeat: we are not yet in our new sinless bodies. Our walk can be sinless though (based on our faith, of course). So that brings me to the point of why I even took issue with you in the first place, and my ongoing interest in discerning the truth of the matter: how exactly is that accomplished? Ignoring sin like you (seem to) do, or being acutely aware of our wretchedness before God while simultaneaously walking in the awareness of no condemnation? Perhaps there is room for both? I don't know.

 

[elysian]

Sanctification is an ongoing process. We don't become sinless overnight. So it is right to say, We sin, even after accepting Christ. But it is equally right to say, I am becoming more and more sinless each day, thanks to Christ.

 

[RichardBurger]

Sanctification is an ongoing process. We don't become sinless overnight. So it is right to say, We sin, even after accepting Christ. But it is equally right to say, I am becoming more and more sinless each day, thanks to Christ.

I do not believe in progressive salvation or progressive santification. According to the scripture below we were (past tense), washed, sanctified, and justified by the Spirit. In other words it is a done deal.

1 Corinthians 6:11
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV

 

[Episkopos]

I do not believe in progressive salvation or progressive santification. According to the scripture below we were (past tense), washed, sanctified, and justified by the Spirit. In other words it is a done deal.

1 Corinthians 6:11
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV

Paul was talking to the Corinthians.

 

[elysian]

I do not believe in progressive salvation or progressive santification. According to the scripture below we were (past tense), washed, sanctified, and justified by the Spirit. In other words it is a done deal.

1 Corinthians 6:11
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV

Isn't there a difference between justification and sanctification? We are justified by faith, that's true. But sanctification is an ongoing process. According to Calvin, it is proof that we are justified.

 

[Episkopos]

I agree with you completely, except I clarified (as I see it) one point above. I repeat: we are not yet in our new sinless bodies. Our walk can be sinless though (based on our faith, of course). So that brings me to the point of why I even took issue with you in the first place, and my ongoing interest in discerning the truth of the matter: how exactly is that accomplished? Ignoring sin like you (seem to) do, or being acutely aware of our wretchedness before God while simultaneaously walking in the awareness of no condemnation? Perhaps there is room for both? I don't know.

Christianity is not a head game where we turn a blind eye to sin. Neither is it a scheme that makes God blind to our sin. Rather, it is the power of a new creation in Christ so that we walk like our Master through grace by faith. This is a very narrow door and way indeed. Most people in our time don't believe victory over sin is even possible. So God keeps cleaning us only for us to throw ourselves back into the mud immediately after...at least that is what the unregenarate would have us to believe.

 

[RichardBurger]

Paul was talking to the Corinthians.

He was talking to born again children of God.

Christianity is not a head game where we turn a blind eye to sin. Neither is it a scheme that makes God blind to our sin. Rather, it is the power of a new creation in Christ so that we walk like our Master through grace by faith. This is a very narrow door and way indeed. Most people in our time don't believe victory over sin is even possible. So God keeps cleaning us only for us to throw ourselves back into the mud immediately after...at least that is what the unregenarate would have us to believe.

To you victory over sins is what you have to do by your works as you go through life.

To me I already have victory over my sins of the flesh "in Christ". When I placed my complete belief, faith, trust, and confidence in what Jesus did on the cross, His shed blood, I was washed, sanctified and justified by the Holy Spirit. There is no other way.

 

[Episkopos]

He was talking to born again children of God.



To you victory over sins is what you have to do by your works as you go through life.

To me I already have victory over my sins of the flesh "in Christ". When I placed my complete belief, faith, trust, and confidence in what Jesus did on the cross, His shed blood, I was washed, sanctified and justified by the Holy Spirit. There is no other way.

The only victory you espouse is that of a bandit that gets away with his crime. In a perverted way that IS a victory...but a victory for unrighteousness. You shouldn't mix this fallen way of thinking with the things of God in which there is no iniquity at all.

True victory is Christ living through us...so it is not I but Christ doing the works prtepared in advance.

You are twisting my words the way you twist the words of the bible...so I am in good company! :)

 

[RichardBurger]

The only victory you espouse is that of a bandit that gets away with his crime. In a perverted way that IS a victory...but a victory for unrighteousness. You shouldn't mix this fallen way of thinking with the things of God in which there is no iniquity at all.

True victory is Christ living through us...so it is not I but Christ doing the works prtepared in advance.

You are twisting my words the way you twist the words of the bible...so I am in good company! :)

1 Corinthians 15:50-57 --- Our Final Victory
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed —
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible (sinful flesh) must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."
55 "O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?"
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
NKJV

1 John 5:4
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.
NKJV

 

[Episkopos]

1 Corinthians 15:50-57 --- Our Final Victory
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed —
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."
55 "O Death, where is your sting? O Hades, where is your victory?"
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
NKJV

1 John 5:4
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith.
NKJV

We overcome sin by faith in the power of God within us to walk as Jesus walked. God is looking to see if any ACTUALLY believe Him. He will protect those who are of faith from falling into the slightest sin.