Genesis 1:3

[101G]

The "without form, and void" phrase in Hebrew does not actually mean a space ether of nothingness. It is tohuw va bohuw in the Hebrew:

OT:8414
tohuw (to'-hoo); from an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), i.e. desert; figuratively, a worthless thing; adverbially, in vain:
KJV - confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


OT:922
bohuw (bo'-hoo); from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin:
KJV - emptiness, void.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)


In most cases, Hebrew tohuw is translated in the KJV about something that was once in a good state, that went bad. This is how "without form, and void" is used in the Jeremiah 4 Scripture...

Jer 4:23-28
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
KJV

Agreed this is where the LIGHT and DAY come in at. Just as what atpollard was speaking of. God shedded LIGHT on what he did in CREATION, so that all may know and be without excuse.

for there was no gap theory at the begining. from what God created. he formed, molded, and shaped into what was "GOOD". step 1. CREAT. step 2. MAKE.

just as he created a tree first, then he created the wodden chair.

from what is "created", comes many things "Made". and yes, it's God stilling making thing because of us, John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

so any invention, or any change in evolution, (adoption), it's of God.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[atpollard]

[Genesis 1:1-5 NASB]
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. 3 Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

Starting from the beginning, it is helpful to begin by remembering that Scripture carries Truth on many different levels, including the childlike obvious. Standing outside in a field in the middle of nowhere, any and every human being could tell you the obvious that light and the sun are not synonymous. It is only our “scientific education” that forces us to think of them as the same thing. The sky begins to lighten several hours before the sun becomes visible and remains light for several hours after the sun sets. So even the most primitive man can understand that God made Light and Dark to mark the first day.

Beyond the obvious physical dimension, there is an equally obvious metaphorical dimension to the first day ... God created time. Without the light and darkness, there was no evening and morning, so there was no first day. There was no passage of time marked prior to this specific creative act of God. The SUN is not responsible for creating and marking the days (the sun comes later), rather it is God himself that sets the days and marks their duration.

Beyond the physical and metaphorical, there is a spiritual dimension. God creates opposites. We have the LIGHT that shall be repeatedly used to represent God and Wisdom and Christ and all things associated with God’s way. Then there is DARKNESS, which will be used to represent all things opposed to God’s way. Here modern science can offer a fascinating insight into a spiritual truth. Were you aware that there is no such thing as “darkness”? Darkness is the absence of light. So one cannot measure how much darkness is in a room, one only measures how much light is there. Light is real. Light exists in the form of energy of photons. Darkness is “nothing”. In the spiritual sense, God is light (something) and evil exists only as the absence of that something (the Light of God). So God created darkness (evil) not as an act of creation, but as a void merely by existing. However, no cave is so DARK that it can crush the LIGHT of even a single candle ... because LIGHT is real and DARKNESS is “nothing” (a void in the light).

 

[101G]

yes, God "called" the LIGHT ... "DAY", not that it was a natural/solar 24hr "DAY" as said, what our scientific knowledge say, or calls a day.

LIGHT means a few things, a. it reveals, the KNOWN from the UNKNOWN, as someone might say, "I was kept in the dark about that". not that he was in a DARK room without NATURAL light, no, but he had NO "KNOWLEDGE" of the matter.

b. Light, can be used in both, natual and spiritually. it's called illumination, as said to reveal, to understand, and this understanding is in scriptures Ephesians 1:18 "The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,"

here the eyes is not natural eyes, but our minds. just as Eve "saw" not with her NATURAL EYES, but saw is metaphorically for "UNDERSTAND".

she understood that it would make her "WISE".

so the definition of Light, (which is "CALLED" day), is how it is used in context, with it's natural or spiritual understanding.

so just calling LIGHT "DAY" is not that LIGHT is a 24hr. day.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Enoch111]

Are there different types of “light”?

Very definitely. There are at least 6 kinds of light.
1. Divine light -- which is the light of God Himself.
2. Cosmic light -- which God spoke into existence before the heavenly bodies were created.
3. Angelic light -- emanating from angels.
4. The light of the sun and stars, and their reflected lights.
5. The light emanating from the children of God after their glorification.
6. The light coming from heated objects.

 

[justbyfaith]

In verse 4 it says God separated the light from the darkness. In verse 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning--the first day.

So the light would be the sun.

hope this helps !!!

You are wrong, of course.

For the sun was created on the 4th day.

 

[101G]

You are wrong, of course.

For the sun was created on the 4th day.

Correct, the Sun was "MADE" to shine on Day 4. but was created from the beginning, the NATURAL "Light" of DAY and NIGHT was "DIVIDED here. Genesis 1:14 "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"

this is the 24 hr. DAY of Light divided from night.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[justbyfaith]

Correct, the Sun was "MADE" to shine on Day 4. but was created from the beginning, the NATURAL "Light" of DAY and NIGHT was "DIVIDED here. Genesis 1:14 "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"

this is the 24 hr. DAY of Light divided from night.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

The earth spins on its axis, and this is the origins of day and night.

The sun was created on the 4th day...light existed before the sun was created (the sun is a relatively young star as compared to other stars in the Universe).

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

I'm not saying there are not any "spiritual" principles or meanings that we can apply to light in Gen 1:3 such as in John 1:4. John in his prologue does parallel Genesis 1. See below :

In the beginning was the Word.
en arche en ho logos
εν αρχη ην ο λογος

the phrase "in the beginning" is "en arche". Now if you look in the Septuagint at Genesis 1:1 we find this:
εν αρχη εποιησεν ο θεος

Now the question we need to ask ourselves is what does in the beginning mean ? One must always remember that context always determines the meaning of words and phrases. If we compare Genesis with John which is exactly what John is doing in his opening to his gospel we can clearly see his point. Moses and John both are discussing the creation of "all things". That makes the passages parallel. Here a some parallels to consider:

1- in the beginning
2- Theos( God) appears in both opening verses
3- Both talk about the creation of all things
4- both use egeneto εγενετο, came into being or existence
5- both use and contrast light and darkness

εν αρχη refers to the beginning of time. Now if John didn't mean the beginning of time he could of easily used another word that he often used which would be the word from"apo" instead of en. He could of also used the phrase came into being(egeneto) to refer to the Word in 1a but he did not. John made it very clear that the Word in his gospel is equal to the God in Genesis.

Now lets look at the verb was"en". This is in the imperfect tense meaning continuous existence. By its very definition it has the meaning of eternal, without beginning. Therefor the Words existence transcends time and is eternal. Here is Dr. Robertson below:

Three times in this sentence John uses this imperfect of eimi to be which conveys no idea of origin for God or for the Logos, simply continuous existence. Quite a different verb (egeneto, became) appears in verse Genesis 14 for the beginning of the Incarnation of the Logos. See the distinction sharply drawn in Genesis 8:58 "before Abraham came (genesqai) I am" (eimi, timeless existence).

From here we can now look to see who the Word is in John 1:1.

Now that we have established the meaning of the beginning in John 1:1a we can move on to the identity of the Word.

Whoever the Word is , He was alongside God (with Him) and was God. But how can the Word be with God and also be God? Lets examine 1b The Word was with God. John here is making a distinction between the Word and God. The Word existed eternally with God, for the Word (logos) ‎was in perfect fellowship with God. Pros ‎with the accusative shows equality and intimacy, face to face with each other. This clearly reveals a relationship between the logos and theon in 1b. In (Moulton and Milligan Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament)"the knowledge of our intimacy with one another" is used to speak of the relationship between the logos and God.

The Word was God- και θεος ην ο λογος . Theos here is without the article. It is predicative and describes the nature of the Word. The absence of the article indicates that the Word is God. If “o theos” had been written then it would mean that no divine being existed outside of the Word. Johns whole gospel comes forth from this verse. The Word is who his gospel is written about and as we will see the words and deeds of Jesus are the words and deeds of God.

John 1:14 and the Word became flesh- και ο λογος σαρξ εγενετο. Second aorist middle indicative of ginomai which means came into existence, He became flesh. The Word in one single event is history became man as opposed to “eimi” being or always existed. So we can clearly see the Word who is eternal came into existence in the flesh at a single point in time .

Now if we read further in John we can see that the Word dwelt among us (tabernacled).The Word entering a new mode of existence, became flesh, and lived in a tent (His physical body-a tabernacle) among us. And we beheld His glory

hope this helps !!!

I take the Genesis account literal myself and I agree with you that a person can learn spiritual principals from the Genesis creation account. I'm no saying I agree with everything you said here but I agree you can learn spiritual principals from the Genesis creation account.

 

[Oseas]

In verse 4 it says God separated the light from the darkness. In verse 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning--the first day.
So the light would be the sun.
hope this helps !!!

Who said "Let there be light, and was light": God the Father or JESUS? Without JESUS was not any thing made that was made.

In the beginning, that is, IN JESUS, was the Word, the Word was God. Gen.1:v.1 says:- In the beginning - IN JESUS - God created the heavens (the 1st, and 2nd, and 3rd heavens, and the heaven of heavens) and the earth.---> Remember: The Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters-Genesis 1:v.2. The earth is the dry land, the clay, that God worked in the third Day.

It is important to understand that God - the Word - revealed Genesis to Moses after He had worked two days and half, or 2,500 years after He had started His plan of Restoration or Restitution of ALL things-Acts 3:v. 19-26-check it out. By the way, how many works had God made through JESUS in 2,500 years of two Days and half? Scriptures describe them all. Remember also: God the Father sent JESUS in the END of the fourth Day, or 2,000 years ago from today, so, it was after God the Father had worked 4,000 years as JESUS said - John 5:v.17.

 

[Oseas]

In verse 4 it says God separated the light from the darkness. In verse 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning--the first day.
So the light would be the sun.
hope this helps !!!

not really, as a spiritual story, bringing it down to a physical thing doesn’t help a bit. The best way to destroy a good allegory is to claim rabbit and turtles can’t race, but it never gets the point across.

Oh not at all as the creation account is literal to me not allegorical. Its an historical account of the origin's of man and the universe.
But hey you can believe whatever you want and there will be no hard feelings on my side of the fence.
hope this helps !!!

Well, carnal minds would see it literally, and never see the principles taught in it.

So, what matters is the Word of God, the Word is God. God is Spirit. 2Cor.3:v.6 says: ...for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. The Eternal Spirit of God is from everlasting to everlasting, He has not beginning neither ending. JESUS is the beginning and the ending, the Almighty.

 

[101G]

The sun was created on the 4th day...light existed before the sun was created (the sun is a relatively young star as compared to other stars in the Universe).

not saying that you're right or wrong, but consider this, all things was CREATED in the beginning, and the sun moon, and the stars, was "MADE" on day 4. meaning that they "SHINED" on day 4.

I know it's a little bit of technical difficulty in the difference betweem "CREATED", and "MADE", but it makes a big difference.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Justbyfaith said:The sun was created on the 4th day...light existed before the sun was created (the sun is a relatively young star as compared to other stars in the Universe).[/Quote\]

I believe the sun was created in verse one of Genesis chapter 1.
So Genesis 1:1,2 relates to a time before the six “days." I believe that When these “days” commenced, the sun, moon, and stars were already in existence, their creation being referred to at Genesis 1:1. However, prior to these six “days” of creative activity “the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep.” (Ge 1:2) I believe, a swaddling band of cloud layers still enveloped the earth, preventing light from reaching its surface.

When God said on Day One, “Let light come to be,” it was diffused light that penetrated the cloud layers even though the sources of that light could not yet be discerned from the earth’s surface. It seems that this was a gradual process, as is indicated by translator J. W. Watts: “And gradually light came into existence.” (Ge 1:3, A Distinctive Translation of Genesis) God brought about a division between the light and the darkness, calling the light Day and the darkness Night. This indicates that the earth was rotating on its axis as it revolved around the sun, so that its hemispheres, eastern and western, could enjoy periods of light and darkness.—Ge 1:3, 4.

Previously, on the first “day,” the expression “Let light come to be” was used. The Hebrew word there used for “light” is ʼohr, meaning light in a general sense. But on the fourth “day,” the Hebrew word changes to ma·ʼohrʹ, which refers to a luminary or source of light. (Ge 1:14) So, on the first “day” diffused light evidently penetrated the swaddling bands, but the sources of that light could not have been seen by an earthly observer. Now, on the fourth “day,” things evidently changed.

It is also noteworthy that at Genesis 1:16 the Hebrew verb ba·raʼʹ, meaning “create,” is not used. Instead, the Hebrew verb ʽa·sahʹ, meaning “make,” is employed. Since the sun, moon, and stars are included in “the heavens” mentioned in Genesis 1:1, they were created long before Day Four. On the fourth day God proceeded to “make” these celestial bodies occupy a new relationship toward earth’s surface and the expanse above it. When it is said, “God put them in the expanse of the heavens to shine upon the earth,” this would indicate that they now became discernible from the surface of the earth, as though they were in the expanse.

 

[Oseas]

I believe the sun was created in verse one of Genesis chapter 1

Sorry, it is not true. God's Plan of Restoration or Restitution of all things - Genesis - revealed to Moses after God worked about 2,500 years or two and a half days, has nothing to do with the creation of the celestial corps of Universe, but the Restoration of all things. What things needed to be restored? These things have nothing to do with the infinite Universe of which the Sun is part of it, with its countless millennia of existence, I would say countless millions of millennia, all these numbers are imprecise evidently.

Moses was born about 3,500 years ago. From Adam until Moses passed nothing more than 2,500 years, then from Adam until today we reach around 6000 years, or just a few more years, in addition to 6,000 years.

God is wise, what He revealed to Moses in Genesis regarding the first day - 1000 years - Genesis 1: v.1-5 has nothing to do with the Sun, or stars, or moon, it is evident.

The earth - the Planet, as you understand, was without form? In what sense? Geometric form? Of course not, so in what sense was it without form?

Was the earth empty? Empty of what? The prophet Isaiah left very clear saying: "thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath ESTABLISHED the earth, He created it not in vain (or to be chaos, or empty, of course), He formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.

There were waters, the Spirit of God moved upon the waters, right? What kind of waters? H2O? Of course not.
Why would the Spirit of God move upon H2O? No reason, of course.
So what "waters" were those?

Trying to link the existence of the celestial corps of the Universe with the biblical text of Genesis will never result in truths, but lies, only and only in false interpretations and mistakes. Material things are only FIGURES of the spiritual, the parables of JESUS are excellent examples.

By the way, there was a crowd of inhabitants in the Garden of God in Eden - the sons of God, Genesis 6:v.2 - when there was a rebellion, even the leader, the ruler of Eden, rebelled against God. Thereafter God planned to restore all things, the plan which is called Genesis, as revealed to Moses around only 3,500 years ago. The things which we are talking are about 6000 years, this is insignificant, this is nothing, given the age of Planet Earth, the Sun, the Moon, the stars, materially speaking.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Sorry, it is not true. God's Plan of Restoration or Restitution of all things - Genesis - revealed to Moses after God worked about 2,500 years or two and a half days, has nothing to do with the creation of the celestial corps of Universe, but the Restoration of all things. What things needed to be restored? These things have nothing to do with the infinite Universe of which the Sun is part of it, with its countless millennia of existence, I would say countless millions of millennia, all these numbers are imprecise evidently.

Moses was born about 3,500 years ago. From Adam until Moses passed nothing more than 2,500 years, then from Adam until today we reach around 6000 years, or just a few more years, in addition to 6,000 years.

God is wise, what He revealed to Moses in Genesis regarding the first day - 1000 years - Genesis 1: v.1-5 has nothing to do with the Sun, or stars, or moon, it is evident.

The earth - the Planet, as you understand, was without form? In what sense? Geometric form? Of course not, so in what sense was it without form?

Was the earth empty? Empty of what? The prophet Isaiah left very clear saying: "thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath ESTABLISHED the earth, He created it not in vain (or to be chaos, or empty, of course), He formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.

There were waters, the Spirit of God moved upon the waters, right? What kind of waters? H2O? Of course not.
Why would the Spirit of God move upon H2O? No reason, of course.
So what "waters" were those?

Trying to link the existence of the celestial corps of the Universe with the biblical text of Genesis will never result in truths, but lies, only and only in false interpretations and mistakes. Material things are only FIGURES of the spiritual, the parables of JESUS are excellent examples.

By the way, there was a crowd of inhabitants in the Garden of God in Eden - the sons of God, Genesis 6:v.2 - when there was a rebellion, even the leader, the ruler of Eden, rebelled against God. Thereafter God planned to restore all things, the plan which is called Genesis, as revealed to Moses around only 3,500 years ago. The things which we are talking are about 6000 years, this is insignificant, this is nothing, given the age of Planet Earth, the Sun, the Moon, the stars, materially speaking.

Don't agree. The scripture at Genesis 1:1 is talking about when God created the physical universe, which means our sun was created then too. You want to deny that, so be it.

 

[Truther]

Did God create light when He spoke it into existence, by His Word? If so, what is light? Is it understanding which he also brought into existence? Are there different types of “light”?

I think so. Light is energy. God made the building blocks for creation in Gen 1....space, matter and energy.

 

[101G]

When God said on Day One, “Let light come to be,” it was diffused light that penetrated the cloud layers even though the sources of that light could not yet be discerned from the earth’s surface.

this is a lie of scientist, I have heard this before. but God by his scriptures are clear. yes the sun was created before day 4 in the beginning, but did not "shine" until day four, scripture, Genesis 1:14 "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"
Genesis 1:15 "And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so." BINGO.

Let there be LIGHT(s), FOR WHAT? to give light upon the earth: and it was so. it was not ubtil day 4 was it so.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

this is a lie of scientist, I have heard this before. but God by his scriptures are clear. yes the sun was created before day 4 in the beginning, but did not "shine" until day four, scripture, Genesis 1:14 "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"
Genesis 1:15 "And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so." BINGO.

Let there be LIGHT(s), FOR WHAT? to give light upon the earth: and it was so. it was not ubtil day 4 was it so.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Well I've been saying that the sun was created when he created the physical universe at Genesis 1:1. What I'm saying by diffused light, is that God started a process that was clearing away what was blocking the sun's rays from hitting the planet. When God said let there be light, which was when this process began, if a man were standing on the Earth when God said let there be light the man would be seeing light as though it was a cloudy day not being able to see the source of that light, the sun. This process continued that by the time day 4 began, if a man was on Earth, he would now be able to see the source of that light, the sun which dominated the daylight hours and at night would see the moon which dominated the night hours, he would be able to see the stars also.

 

[ChristisGod]

Correct, the Sun was "MADE" to shine on Day 4. but was created from the beginning, the NATURAL "Light" of DAY and NIGHT was "DIVIDED here. Genesis 1:14 "And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"

this is the 24 hr. DAY of Light divided from night.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Agreed I was incorrect don't know what I was thinking lol.

 

[101G]

Well I've been saying that the sun was created when he created the physical universe at Genesis 1:1. What I'm saying by diffused light, is that God started a process that was clearing away what was blocking the sun's rays from hitting the planet. When God said let there be light, which was when this process began, if a man were standing on the Earth when God said let there be light the man would be seeing light as though it was a cloudy day not being able to see the source of that light, the sun. This process continued that by the time day 4 began, if a man was on Earth, he would now be able to see the source of that light, the sun which dominated the daylight hours and at night would see the moon which dominated the night hours, he would be able to see the stars also.

Thanks for the reply, but that's old Ancient Greek Astronomy belief in the universal aether, where a substance that was said to fill all space and make up all bodies, and that these bodies move through this substance, or as some say a thick cloud cover around the earth. well that has been proven false. well the sky is clear, and light propagate through an empty space between the earth and the sun.

Now we agree that the sun, moon and stars was created in the beginning, that's RAW matter, (the without form, the H8414 תֹּהוּ toh),now comes the shaping, forming, and the designing of these RAW materials (without form), this was done in the "DAYS", which on day 4 was the lights in the sky was shaped, formed and designed to give light upon the earth.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

Agreed I was incorrect don't know what I was thinking lol.

no worries, trying to keep up with God, as we are not perfect like him, we make mistakes, we "ALL" eror, and make mistakes, so welcome to the human race... (smile). that's why we all are here to help one another.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"