Geocentrism.

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Suhar

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Mar 28, 2013
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[SIZE=medium]Geocentrism.[/SIZE]


[SIZE=medium]Never even thought about it. I guess I assumed that what I was taught in school is true and never questioned it.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI849i1RYG8[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnLYIbpNst4[/SIZE]
 

River Jordan

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Jan 30, 2014
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I was mostly hoping you'd post your Biblical argument for geocentrism. And I honestly don't think very many people here are going to watch a 2 hour and 45 minute video. How about you start by citing the scriptures that you believe indicate geocentrism?
 

River Jordan

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Jan 30, 2014
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Oh I watched the shorter video in the OP. I was just hoping you'd post your Biblical argument for geocentrism in your own words. Since you seem so reluctant to do so....

At ~2:00, the guy cites (sort of) the following Bible passages.

1 Chronicles 16:30

Psalms 33:9

Psalms 19:5-6

Ecclesiastes 1:5

The guy in the video then argues that faith is superior to reason, because "reason leads to folly" and "faith is a special gift of grace". He then argues that the Age of Reason marked the beginning of reason replacing God's Word as the source of human knowledge and the basis of science. As an example, he cites Copernicus' findings about a heliocentric solar system that goes against "the book of nature" and scripture. He calls the "Copernican revolution" the start of man beginning to question the Word of God.

He also claims that the idea of the earth being "the third rock from the sun" is a presupposition that contradicts the belief in the earth being the center of God's creation, and compares "Copernicans" to "Darwinians", in that just as "Darwinians" doubt God's word on the creation of life, "Copernicans" doubt God's Word on the creation of the earth and universe. And just like creationists, he argues that by accepting the scientific conclusion of a rotating earth that orbits the sun, you are placing a higher value on the works of man than the Word of God.

At ~6:30 he switches gears a bit and looks into the "beliefs of these Copernicans". He argues that they were anti-God, anti-scripture, and wanted to replace faith with reason. At this point he moves away from any scriptural argument for geocentrism.

At ~13:30 he gets back little to philosophical/religious arguments, and claims that we either let reason, "natural experience", and man determine our reality, or do we determine from scripture and revealed knowledge from God. From that he argues that if you do not accept what scripture says about the cosmos, you cannot be said to believe in the inerrancy of scripture. And once you do that, you open the door to everything "that is secular and pagan" (and he repeats the ignorant creationist argument that "evolution is only a theory").

At 16:00 he gets into the question of Biblical literalism. From that he argues that Psalms 19:5-6 is a direct analogy to the how the sun behaves in relation to the earth, and any reading or interpretation that isn't geocentric, is questioning the authority and infallibility of God's Word (and is "twisting scripture").

At ~23:00 he cites Martin Luther and John Calvin and their belief that the Bible clearly teaches geocentrism. He repeats their view that by agreeing with the "Copernicans", we would, 1) be tearing God from His throne, 2) "destroy everything so that men become like brute beasts", and 3) be "infected with this deadly poison that leads to ruin". He further says that anyone who agrees with the "Copernican view has "contempt for God".

At ~29:00 he makes the same argument as creationists, in that those who reject the clear Word of God on geocentrism are who Romans 1:21 is referring to. He says "the Bible explicitly states that the earth is at absolute rest" and that the statements on this are no more questionable than the Law of God itself.

Also, like creationists do with evolution, he argues that Copernicanism leads to lawlessness, chaos, and discord. He then cites his father, the Christian reconstructionist R.J. Rushdoony, in support of the argument that Christians cannot take a neutral stance on this, or any other issue. He then declare the Copernican view an "atheistic" viewpoint just like evolution and Marxism. He then sights Isaiah 5:20-21.

He finishes by saying "reason is subordinate to revelation and observation is subordinate to faith" (@ 32:30).

So what do other Christians here think of all this? Specifically, I'm wondering what KingJ, Wormwood, Christian Juggernaut, Uppsala, and the other conservatives think.
 

Suhar

New Member
Mar 28, 2013
436
18
0
Western WA
River Jordan said:
Oh I watched the shorter video in the OP. I was just hoping you'd post your Biblical argument for geocentrism in your own words. Since you seem so reluctant to do so....

At ~2:00, the guy cites (sort of) the following Bible passages.

1 Chronicles 16:30

Psalms 33:9

Psalms 19:5-6

Ecclesiastes 1:5

The guy in the video then argues that faith is superior to reason, because "reason leads to folly" and "faith is a special gift of grace". He then argues that the Age of Reason marked the beginning of reason replacing God's Word as the source of human knowledge and the basis of science. As an example, he cites Copernicus' findings about a heliocentric solar system that goes against "the book of nature" and scripture. He calls the "Copernican revolution" the start of man beginning to question the Word of God.

He also claims that the idea of the earth being "the third rock from the sun" is a presupposition that contradicts the belief in the earth being the center of God's creation, and compares "Copernicans" to "Darwinians", in that just as "Darwinians" doubt God's word on the creation of life, "Copernicans" doubt God's Word on the creation of the earth and universe. And just like creationists, he argues that by accepting the scientific conclusion of a rotating earth that orbits the sun, you are placing a higher value on the works of man than the Word of God.

At ~6:30 he switches gears a bit and looks into the "beliefs of these Copernicans". He argues that they were anti-God, anti-scripture, and wanted to replace faith with reason. At this point he moves away from any scriptural argument for geocentrism.

At ~13:30 he gets back little to philosophical/religious arguments, and claims that we either let reason, "natural experience", and man determine our reality, or do we determine from scripture and revealed knowledge from God. From that he argues that if you do not accept what scripture says about the cosmos, you cannot be said to believe in the inerrancy of scripture. And once you do that, you open the door to everything "that is secular and pagan" (and he repeats the ignorant creationist argument that "evolution is only a theory").

At 16:00 he gets into the question of Biblical literalism. From that he argues that Psalms 19:5-6 is a direct analogy to the how the sun behaves in relation to the earth, and any reading or interpretation that isn't geocentric, is questioning the authority and infallibility of God's Word (and is "twisting scripture").

At ~23:00 he cites Martin Luther and John Calvin and their belief that the Bible clearly teaches geocentrism. He repeats their view that by agreeing with the "Copernicans", we would, 1) be tearing God from His throne, 2) "destroy everything so that men become like brute beasts", and 3) be "infected with this deadly poison that leads to ruin". He further says that anyone who agrees with the "Copernican view has "contempt for God".

At ~29:00 he makes the same argument as creationists, in that those who reject the clear Word of God on geocentrism are who Romans 1:21 is referring to. He says "the Bible explicitly states that the earth is at absolute rest" and that the statements on this are no more questionable than the Law of God itself.

Also, like creationists do with evolution, he argues that Copernicanism leads to lawlessness, chaos, and discord. He then cites his father, the Christian reconstructionist R.J. Rushdoony, in support of the argument that Christians cannot take a neutral stance on this, or any other issue. He then declare the Copernican view an "atheistic" viewpoint just like evolution and Marxism. He then sights Isaiah 5:20-21.

He finishes by saying "reason is subordinate to revelation and observation is subordinate to faith" (@ 32:30).

So what do other Christians here think of all this? Specifically, I'm wondering what KingJ, Wormwood, Christian Juggernaut, Uppsala, and the other conservatives think.

Ok so how do you explain away all the scientific experiments sited? You are so highly educated after all.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNLgCNA2Pwc
 

River Jordan

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Jan 30, 2014
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Honestly, I have absolutely no interest in debating geocentrism from a scientific perspective. Maybe later, but right now I'm curious how all the other Christians on this site feel about their being lumped in with atheists, Darwinists, and Marxists because they accept the scientific view of an earth that orbits the sun.
 

aspen

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When I first became Catholic, I read a bunch of Sungenis.......then I discover this little nugget of crazy and was very disappointed. It is sort of like finding out that a preacher you sorta like is a white supremist.

Oh the humanity.....
 

Suhar

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Mar 28, 2013
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aspen said:
When I first became Catholic, I read a bunch of Sungenis.......then I discover this little nugget of crazy and was very disappointed. It is sort of like finding out that a preacher you sorta like is a white supremist.

Oh the humanity.....
OK, So what is you explanation of scientific evidence he presented? I mean real scientific experiments, three space missions by EU.... evidence is plentiful and solid. Will you run and hide too? I am sure you "do not have time for this" too.
 

River Jordan

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I'm still waiting to hear from the creationists here. I'm very curious how they feel about having the exact same accusations leveled at them, that they level at me. <_<
 

Suhar

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River Jordan said:
I'm still waiting to hear from the creationists here. I'm very curious how they feel about having the exact same accusations leveled at them, that they level at me. <_<
Run and hide is not enough? Now you are going to "switch topic and hide"? What does Creationism have to do with Geocentrism?
 

Suhar

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OK. So can anybody explain away those three scientific experiments? Anybody? There is a whole lot more if you listen to Sungenis interview.

Earth IS THE CENTER of the Universe and it is placed there by God for a reason.

All that "science-fiction" propaganda in movies like Star Trec, Star Wars.... it is just fiction with absolutely no science behind it! Fiction ,,,, and you believe in it!
 

aspen

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In 2014, Sungenis funded the production of a film called The Principle, which features interviews with Lawrence Krauss, Michio Kaku, Max Tegmark, Julian Barbour, and George F. R. Ellis.[1][21][24][25] Krauss has since stated that he was featured in the film without permission and agrees with the scientific community that geocentrism has been thoroughly debunked. Krauss said of the film that if people ignore it, “Maybe then it will quickly disappear into the dustbin of history, where it belongs.”[26] Kate Mulgrew, who narrated the trailer, released a public statement on her Facebook page disavowing the film, saying that she does not subscribe to Sungenis' views on history or science and would not have gotten involved in the documentary had she known of his involvement in it. She stated that she was "a voice for hire, and a misinformed one, at that."[27][28] Several other scientists featured in the film came forward to say that they had been misled about its true agenda, and that they would never have taken part in it had they known its aim.[29] Co-producer Rick DeLano responded to these allegations, insisting that the documentary is an examination of the Copernican Principle and does not explicitly promote the geocentric point of view, adding that he is in possession of signed releases from Krauss and Mulgrew, neither being misled about the content of the documentary or its intention to "explore controversial aspects of cosmology, even highly controversial ideas and theories."[30]
 

justaname

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I've been ingrained to believe in the heliocentric model. I watched the shorter version and I find this pretty interesting and similar to the evolution model in regards to applying philosophy to science.