Gettin' Churched

[aspen]

Anyone who has worked on staff at a church or within a ministry will understand what I am talking about. Of course all workplaces are susceptible to politics and plays for power, but when morality and piety are the weapons of choice, the stakes are at their highest.

Examples

Making a plea for more staff prayer before the work day begins is a suggestion that sounds wonderful, until you realize that it means that you are now expected to arrive a half an hour earlier, without pay, in order to fulfill this new obligation, while the person who made the suggestion is no where to be seen......what has happened, you wonder to yourself? Face it, you have been churched!

Fulfilling all of your responsibilities that come with your position, plus volunteering for extra events, without pay and then hearing that the ministry is not here for you and that you need to 'give back to the ministry'
Yep, once again, you've been churched, friend.

Promoting the idea that volunteers and staff are morally obligated to make sure that the ministry has all the supplies it needs to function. Churched.

Presenting needs that can only be met by another staff member or volunteer, with no thought or willingness to be involved.....Churching.

And my favorite; relying on three committed volunteers to run all the programs. Churching.

Small wonder why people who rely on the puny pay offered for positions in ministry get burned out. Small wonder why most parishioners are pewsitters.

 

[Prentis]

This can all be resolved with one common act of obedience.... 'And they had all things in common' (Acts). When the church adopts the way of Mammon, it will suffer the consequences. We then become just like the rest of the world which is run by Mammon.

But we are to be run by brotherly love, where no one is lacking or otherwise we are all lacking and looking to God, who is more than able to provide.

We suffer because we do not obey.

 

[aspen]

This can all be resolved with one common act of obedience.... 'And they had all things in common' (Acts). When the church adopts the way of Mammon, it will suffer the consequences. We then become just like the rest of the world which is run by Mammon.

But we are to be run by brotherly love, where no one is lacking or otherwise we are all lacking and looking to God, who is more than able to provide.

We suffer because we do not obey.

Sounds good, but impractical.

Not enough funds and human limitations impede self care.

It is all good and nice to suggest turning everything over to God, but that does not stop your school loans from defaulting or employees from getting sick or staff trying to assert authority they do not have at the expense of others.

Idealism does not help workers survive in ministry.

 

[Angelina]

Here's an idea. The Church should stop paying people in leadership or in ministry...then those who volunteer will do so because they want to rather than being obligated and because they have the time and feel led to be involved. I have never been to a Church where the leadership or ministry are paid to do programs or run community services. It must be kinda nice to be paid for something you love doing for Christ'

 

[Prentis]

Sounds good, but impractical.

Not enough funds and human limitations impede self care.

It is all good and nice to suggest turning everything over to God, but that does not stop your school loans from defaulting or employees from getting sick or staff trying to assert authority they do not have at the expense of others.

Idealism does not help workers survive in ministry.

It makes many people who believe it... But with what I was suggesting, there is no employees, staff, etc... At least not in an official salaried way. In the body we are to take care of each other. If one is called to the ministry through God, those with him take care of him, another is called to work... Either way, God provides enough for us.

Ministry doesn't work within the confines of a man made system because it is not meant to be contained by it. God appoints, and God provides, we obey and become means of provision, or if we are ministers, become those who are provided for.

It might seem impratical or impracticable to you, but I have seen it work. It depends on the way the body of believers thinks. Those who are called in the ministry should have all their needs met... By the body and those who are led.

Here's an idea. The Church should stop paying people in leadership or in ministry...then those who volunteer will do so because they want to rather than being obligated and because they have the time and feel led to be involved. I have never been to a Church where the leadership or ministry are paid to do programs or run community services. It must be kinda nice to be paid for something you love doing for Christ'

Amen! This divides between the hirelings and the real shepherds... It divides between those who do it sacrificially and those who do it for the money... Godliness in Christ is not a means of earthly gain.

 

[aspen]

I have never met a person who works in ministry for the money - I have seen them on TV, but I do not believe TV personalities are doing ministry. IMO, ministry happens at the community level. My definition of a living wage is financial coverage for basic needs - there is no need for extras. However, basic needs vary from person to person. Also, the difference between receiving a salary and 'bumming up' donors is the difference between spending time ministering to the people you are serving and panhandling from donors.

Ministry without pay is a nice idea, but you better not have a family or any outside responsibilities, unless you are only interested in putting in a few hours a week in addition to a paid position in the world.

If the church is honest about caring for people, it would pay it's workers a living wage.

 

[Angelina]

The only ministries I have known to be paid are Pastor's and my last pastor worked full-time. He also ministered on Sundays and to the community during the week. Your ministry which may include pay, should really come out of the community you work in and then supported by the Church. Pastor got a meager amount from the Church through tithes and offerings but he was well supported in other areas....

 

[aspen]

The ministry I work for is supported by many local churches; the money collected is used to support the work we do and the staff who perform the work.
BTW, this thread is not about whether ministers should be paid or not. It is about common problems that arise within the volunteers and the staff of ministries.

 

[Angelina]

BTW, this thread is not about whether ministers should be paid or not. It is about common problems that arise within the volunteers and the staff of ministries.

Oh...I thought that it was relevant to the thread based on your quote below... :unsure:

Small wonder why people who rely on the puny pay offered for positions in ministry get burned out. Small wonder why most parishioners are pewsitters.

Anyway...it's sounds kinda cool to have combined Churches supporting a common need....

 

[aspen]

Yes, the multiple church support is definitely a positive.
Just thought of another example of being churched - it is a classic.

Starting a discussion about a new service or ministry, without assigning the responsibility to anyone or demanding a start date, and getting assigned to head up the project.......

Sort of like deciding to join a church and by the next Sunday, finding yourself teaching Sunday School, volunteered for youth group, and sitting on a finance board for the new roof of the church......

 

[Angelina]

Gosh that reminds me of a situation where I was hired as a consultant for an arm of a Church that had a community Resource center. My main job was to apply for community funding for programs and projects that functioned from out of the center itself and this Church had many arms in the community incl; Youth camps, preschool activities, after school programs, drug and alcohol rehab and youth scholarships etc.

We also had a community foodbank. One time I when the foodbank became low due to constant use, I suggested to the board [which was made of prominent leaders in the area incl; Church leaders ] that we need a community garden to boost the bank. They were all for it and I ended up with having to lead the project. Turned out to be extremely successful indeed as most community businesses' were happy to donate items and there was a lot of community support and drive behind it. I did not mind having to do it at all....and it was a lot of fun! ^_^

PS; The left over produce opened another opportunity for a free course on how to bottle and preserve which was run by the ladies in the Church and added to the foodbank.

 

[aspen]

well gosh that sound lots loads of fun Angelina! What that hell am i am i complaining about? apparently we forget Jesus - too bad we did not consult you during our 17 years of service.

 

[AndyBern]

...I never liked word 'churched'. It sounds similar to 'getting religion'.

 

[day]

Anyway...it's sounds kinda cool to have combined Churches supporting a common need....

In some churches I've been in, they try to fill too many separate community needs and spread themselves very thin, leaving only one or two volunteers trying to hold up a ministry. Down the street is another church doing the same. Because churches do not work together there is duplication of services but each is on such a small scale as to be ineffective.

In the town where I live several churches of different denominations are working together to meet needs and there is a "Ministry Board" made up of volunteer members from the different churches to help coordinate the work. Larger congregations like the Catholic and Congregational make space available, while smaller congregations like Episcopal provide the extra support needed, for example, this month the Community Dinner (about 300 people come) is at the Catholic Church with the Episcopal church responsible for running the kitchen. There is a food pantry at the Lutheran church which the other churches contribute to and assist with rather than each doing their own.

 

[Angelina]

too bad we did not consult you during our 17 years of service.

Gee aspen.. :huh: it sounds as if you have lost your passion for the job. Sorry for your loss... :unsure:

Bless ya!

 

[Comm.Arnold]

hopefully he gets it back eh angelina

 

[This Vale Of Tears]

Gee aspen.. :huh: it sounds as if you have lost your passion for the job. Sorry for your loss... :unsure:

Bless ya!

That's uncharitable.