"Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in.." scripture

[thelord's_pearl]

I was taught that we're supposed to go and make disciples of all nations, but what I don't remember being taught was that we have to go and baptize them.. in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit.​

Do we "all" have to do that too just like we "all" are called to go and make disciples of all nations? And that we can go and make disciples of all nations partly online, not only in real life and in partners thereof. Or only certain people are supposed to go and baptize people like if it's a calling only? Thanks for the replies and help and sorry this is in bold as I couldn't unbold it.​

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Matthew 28:19–20​

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in1 the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

 

[Randy Kluth]

I was taught that we're supposed to go and make disciples of all nations, but what I don't remember being taught was that we have to go and baptize them.. in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit.​

Do we "all" have to do that too just like we "all" are called to go and make disciples of all nations? And that we can go and make disciples of all nations partly online, not only in real life and in partners thereof. Or only certain people are supposed to go and baptize people like if it's a calling only? Thanks for the replies and help and sorry this is in bold as I couldn't unbold it.​

​

Matthew 28:19–20​

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in1 the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

It's a very good question because at face value it appears that water baptism is being made a condition for Salvation. And yet we know that there are not works by which we can *earn* Salvation--no ritual required of us to be saved. Why then must we be baptized?

Well, it is probably just a good practice since it was practiced in the Early Church. Jesus actually commissioned his apostles to do this. I'm not sure how long Jesus intended the practice to continue? But it has continued pretty much throughout NT history.

At the same time, NT history has been replete with efforts to obtain Salvation through religious rituals, such as confession, the Eucharist, tithes, etc. However, Paul was very clear in saying that the requirements of the Law are no longer required of the Christian since Christ paid for our redemption--we can't do this!

So why the addition of Water Baptism to the Apostles' commission? It had been John the Baptist's preparation for Israel to receive their Messiah, and at the time it was undoubtedly a way of preparation to receive Messiah under the New Covenant.

Actually, it usually was given *after* someone had received Christ as a public declaration of the intention to continue living a life pleasing to the Messiah. It was part of preparing to live life as a Christian in preparation for his *2nd Coming.*

So it was just a good practice. The verse is *not* saying that it was required--it was just a general statement that doing these things will lead to a good Christian life. A strong public commitment is the right way to start a Christian life.

If I say that you should go down the street to the grocery store and buy medicine for your stomach ailment, I'm not saying that going down the street is a fix for your stomach ailment. It just accompanies the process by which you can get the medicine.

If I say you need to go down to the altar to get saved, it is receiving Christ that gets you saved--not going down to the altar. Similarly, Water Baptism doesn't save you. Nor is it essential to your Christian life.

If you have really received Christ in your heart, Water Baptism accompanies that act to begin your Christian life. It is not an integral part of your Christianity. It is just ancillary to it. It is a good practice initially required be practiced by Jesus' Apostles.

 

[thelord's_pearl]

I have a different belief and understanding than yours Randy Kluth. God doesn't hold us accountable for past sins prior to your conversion, but he does require us to have faith accompanied by deeds. They go together and do not separate and it's evidence that you truly are a believer. What you actually believe accompanied by what you do makes your belief complete. I'm not sure if baptism is just symbolic either, it just might be an act that ignites the Holy Spirit in us in the spiritual realm, but thanks for your reply and thoughts.

 

[thelord's_pearl]

by God's grace and faith in Jesus we are saved because Christ changes us and no amount of "works" you, works of the law, prior to being converted when you were just in the world and separated from God and his knowledge of love and goodness can save you because you are lost and ignorant and do not have a conscience in all your ways as opposed to when you are saved and belong to the kingdom of heaven. That's what I understand and believe the scripture means by "not of works" (works of the law prior to being converted).

 

[Gabriel _Arch]

It is said the Matthew 28 passage is what gives support to evidence God is triune,the Trinity doctrine.

I think this is maybe because the singular noun,name,is overlooked as that what actually sustains the opposite.

What is the name of God?

Deuteronomy 6
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Mark 12
28 And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?” 29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I have a different belief and understanding than yours Randy Kluth. God doesn't hold us accountable for past sins prior to your conversion, but he does require us to have faith accompanied by deeds. They go together and do not separate and it's evidence that you truly are a believer. What you actually believe accompanied by what you do makes your belief complete. I'm not sure if baptism is just symbolic either, it just might be an act that ignites the Holy Spirit in us in the spiritual realm, but thanks for your reply and thoughts.

I don't know where you think I believe God holds us accountable for past sins prior to conversion, or what you even mean by this? Please explain?

This appears to be a different subject than the one we're here talking about?

 

[quietthinker]

I was taught that we're supposed to go and make disciples of all nations, but what I don't remember being taught was that we have to go and baptize them.. in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit.​

Do we "all" have to do that too just like we "all" are called to go and make disciples of all nations? And that we can go and make disciples of all nations partly online, not only in real life and in partners thereof. Or only certain people are supposed to go and baptize people like if it's a calling only? Thanks for the replies and help and sorry this is in bold as I couldn't unbold it.​

​

Matthew 28:19–20​

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in1 the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Just as it says bugalugs.

 

[JBO]

I was taught that we're supposed to go and make disciples of all nations, but what I don't remember being taught was that we have to go and baptize them.. in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit.​

Do we "all" have to do that too just like we "all" are called to go and make disciples of all nations? And that we can go and make disciples of all nations partly online, not only in real life and in partners thereof. Or only certain people are supposed to go and baptize people like if it's a calling only? Thanks for the replies and help and sorry this is in bold as I couldn't unbold it.​

​

Matthew 28:19–20​

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in1 the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

The two words "go" and "make" are the only action verbs in that sentence. The two words "baptizing" and "teaching" are adverbial participials modifying the verb "make". In other words, baptizing and teaching describe the method whereby the disciples are made. It is similar to what I might say to a roofer that I hired, "I want you to repair my roof, removing the old shingles and replacing them with new ones. Removing old shingles and replacing with new shingles is not something I do to the roof after repairing it; rather removing and replacing describes the process of repairing the roof. In the same way in Matthew 28, baptizing and teaching is not what is done to the disiciples, rather baptizing and teaching describes the process for making the disciples.

 

[thelord's_pearl]

I don't know where you think I believe God holds us accountable for past sins prior to conversion, or what you even mean by this? Please explain?

This appears to be a different subject than the one we're here talking about?

I'll explain. I was just explaining what I believe is the meaning of that scripture in the book of I think Romans, that says we're saved by grace, not of works and that I think it means works of the law in the sense of our works prior to conversion. I am actually confused myself as now I have to find that scripture but I think I got it right.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I'll explain. I was just explaining what I believe is the meaning of that scripture in the book of I think Romans, that says we're saved by grace, not of works and that I think it means works of the law in the sense of our works prior to conversion. I am actually confused myself as now I have to find that scripture but I think I got it right.

Well, please don't start disagreeing with me before you know what I said that you think was wrong!
Based on what you said, it seems you think that "works" before we're saved are "under the Law?" The Law was only given to Jews before Jesus. None of us, therefore, were "under the Law" before conversion!

I continue to be confused. You better find the passage we're talking about?

 

[thelord's_pearl]

Well, please don't start disagreeing with me before you know what I said that you think was wrong!
Based on what you said, it seems you think that "works" before we're saved are "under the Law?" The Law was only given to Jews before Jesus. None of us, therefore, were "under the Law" before conversion!

I continue to be confused. You better find the passage we're talking about?

Sorry! One main point of mine was to say that I believe in faith accompanied by works making your faith complete and genuine faith as it talks about in the book of James and in Genesis where it says that Abraham's faith was made complete by what he did, so in saying that I had to also talk about what Paul writes about in the book of Romans. I just want to tell you that I am feeling a lack of motivation these days due to a medication I'm still on. I hate to say this but I don't have the motivation to read that book again up to the part where it talks about that scripture I talked about but I remember believing and understanding differently than you by what I thought was what it meant in order to make sense of the scriptures in James and Genesis and I can probably discuss this further later or in the future. Sorry and thanks for your thoughts and reply in this thread. So I do have one question! What do you mean by under the "Law"? Maybe I can learn something from you. Thanks a lot!

 

[Arthur81]

I was taught that we're supposed to go and make disciples of all nations, but what I don't remember being taught was that we have to go and baptize them.. in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit.​

Do we "all" have to do that too just like we "all" are called to go and make disciples of all nations? And that we can go and make disciples of all nations partly online, not only in real life and in partners thereof. Or only certain people are supposed to go and baptize people like if it's a calling only? Thanks for the replies and help and sorry this is in bold as I couldn't unbold it.​

​

Matthew 28:19–20​

19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in1 the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

I do not see where that passage reads that "we 'all' are called to go and make disciples of all nations". The passage in context reads:

"Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. And Jesus came and said to them, 'All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.'” (Matt 28:16-20 NRSV)

This was accomplished prior to the destruction of the temple in 70 AD -

"First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is proclaimed throughout the world." (Rom 1:8 NRSV)

"...provided that you continue securely established and steadfast in the faith, without shifting from the hope promised by the gospel that you heard, which has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven. I, Paul, became a servant of this gospel." (Col 1:23 NRSV)

It seems that evangelism was handed over to the churches, the Elders, and then the believers living out the gospel in our lives:

"As for you, always be sober, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, carry out your ministry fully." (2Tim 4:5 NRSV)

It seems that the temporary office of "evangelist" was to end, and the work of evangelism was then given to the churches, Elders and congregation.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Sorry! One main point of mine was to say that I believe in faith accompanied by works making your faith complete and genuine faith as it talks about in the book of James and in Genesis where it says that Abraham's faith was made complete by what he did, so in saying that I had to also talk about what Paul writes about in the book of Romans. I just want to tell you that I am feeling a lack of motivation these days due to a medication I'm still on. I hate to say this but I don't have the motivation to read that book again up to the part where it talks about that scripture I talked about but I remember believing and understanding differently than you by what I thought was what it meant in order to make sense of the scriptures in James and Genesis and I can probably discuss this further later or in the future. Sorry and thanks for your thoughts and reply in this thread. So I do have one question! What do you mean by under the "Law"? Maybe I can learn something from you. Thanks a lot!

It's okay, I'm under a handicap as well, using another device. Under the Law means for me a time applying only to Jews before the Cross, namely those people who were in covenant with God through the laws handed down at Sinai.