GOD GAVE HIMSELF AS A RANSOM FOR ALL, TO BE TESTIFIED IN DUE TIME (I TIMOTHY 2:6

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justbyfaith

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Yup, "a spiritual man judges all things" - I Cor 2:15.

Don't worry, you're not alone - over 99.99999999% of christians are in the Outer Darkness.
Says the person who denies the words of Jesus that there are some who will go away into everlasting punishment.

I am not in outer darkness...that is reserved for those who, after they have lived their lives, are found outside of being born again in Jesus Christ.

There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth...something that I am not currently doing...how then can that be currently speaking of me?
 

justbyfaith

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Yup, "a spiritual man judges all things" - I Cor 2:15.
Yet he himself is rightly judged of no man...

I suppose it will not do any good to toot my onw horn and proclaim to you that I am a spiritual man...

Nevertheless this is the truth.

And therefore your judgment of me is not right.
 
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Says the person who denies the words of Jesus that there are some who will go away into everlasting punishment.

I am not in outer darkness...that is reserved for those who, after they have lived their lives, are found outside of being born again in Jesus Christ.

There shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth...something that I am not currently doing...how then canna that be currently speaking of me?

Your spirit is wailing and gnashing now while your carnal mind does not understand it's consternation.
No worries, Jesus will make ALL THINGS NEW (Rev 21:5), which of course, those in the Outer Darkness cannot apprehend. How does it feel being in the Lake of Fire?
 

justbyfaith

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Your spirit is wailing and gnashing now while your carnal mind does not understand it's consternation.
There is no wailing or gnashing or consternation in my spirit.

Are you attempting to speak that into existence?

I am perfectly filled with the joy and peace of the Lord as the fruit of the Holy Spirit in my life.
 

Guestman

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The account at 1 Timothy 2, does not say that "God gave himself as a ransom", but rather that "this is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all."(1 Tim 2:4-6; "corresponding ransom", Greek an·ti´ly·tron, from an·ti´, “against; in correspondence to; in place of,” and ly´tron, “ransom [price paid]”)

So, it is Jesus Christ who gave the "corresponding ransom", being equal to Adam before he rebelled in the garden of Eden, before he became a sinner, with Jesus becoming the "last Adam" at 1 Corinthians 15:45. God requires that for justice to be served, a one for one basis must be fulfilled, just as seen at Exodus 21 regarding the taking of a person's life by another person, so that "if a fatality does occur (in this case of two men when fighting hurt a pregnant woman and her unborn dies, verse 22), then you must give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, blow for blow", equal for equal.(Ex 21:23-25)

Thus, no more, no less, was Jesus to be what Adam was before his rebellion in the garden of Eden, a perfect man for a perfect man, for it was not God that sinned (which is totally absurd) so that God would have to offer himself to buy back what was lost, the hope of living forever on a paradise earth for Adam's descendants.(Gen 1:28-31)

At Matthew 20, Jesus said that "the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.”(Matt 20:28) By being "the last Adam", he balanced the scales of God's perfect justice.

The problem here is very apparent, that the false belief that Jesus is God is being pushed here, that has had a long history, coming into focus during the 4th century C.E., first at the Council of Niceae in 325 C.E. with God and Jesus as equal being driven along, especially by Athanasius, but the finishing touches being placed on the "Holy Trinity" in 381 C.E. was at the Council of Constantinople with the holy spirit being added, calling it "Lord" and "life-giver".

However, Jesus established that:

(1) "the Father is greater than me" at John 14:28.

(2) he worships the Father, God, whose personal name is Jehovah (Ps 83:18; Isa 12:2; 26:4, King James Bible) at John 4:22-24, saying to the Samaritan woman: "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. God is a Spirit (not a man of flesh and blood), and those worshipping him (not me) must worship with spirit and truth."

(3) he clearly told Satan whom to worship at Matthew 4:10, saying: "Go away, Satan ! For it is written (at Deut 10:20): ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service."

(4) he did the Father's will, not his own, saying: "For I have not spoken of my own initiative, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak. And I know that his commandment means everlasting life. So whatever I speak, I speak just as the Father has told me.”(John 12:49, 50)

(5) Jesus has a Father (2 Cor 1:3; Eph 1:3, 17) so that he is "the beginning of the creation by God" (Rev 3:14), "the firstborn of all creation" (Col 1:15), so that at one time Jesus did not exist, while on the other hand, Jehovah God is "from everlasting to everlasting", having had no beginning.(Ps 90:2)

(6) Jesus was taught by Jehovah (John 8:28, 29) while Jehovah has no need for anyone to instruct him, being complete within himself.(Isa 40:13, 14)

(7) Jesus said in prayer to Jehovah: "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ."(John 17:3)

Hence, Jehovah did not offer himself, which is ridiculous, preposterous, but rather balanced his perfect scales of justice through his "only-begotten Son", Jesus, who as "the last Adam" was able to provide the needed ransom for obedient mankind, buying them back from sin and death.(Isa 25:6-9; Rom 5:12, 18)
 
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The account at 1 Timothy 2, does not say that "God gave himself as a ransom", but rather that "this is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all."(1 Tim 2:4-6; "corresponding ransom", Greek an·ti´ly·tron, from an·ti´, “against; in correspondence to; in place of,” and ly´tron, “ransom [price paid]”)

So, it is Jesus Christ who gave the "corresponding ransom", being equal to Adam before he rebelled in the garden of Eden, before he became a sinner, with Jesus becoming the "last Adam" at 1 Corinthians 15:45. God requires that for justice to be served, a one for one basis must be fulfilled, just as seen at Exodus 21 regarding the taking of a person's life by another person, so that "if a fatality does occur (in this case of two men when fighting hurt a pregnant woman and her unborn dies, verse 22), then you must give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, blow for blow", equal for equal.(Ex 21:23-25)

Thus, no more, no less, was Jesus to be what Adam was before his rebellion in the garden of Eden, a perfect man for a perfect man, for it was not God that sinned (which is totally absurd) so that God would have to offer himself to buy back what was lost, the hope of living forever on a paradise earth for Adam's descendants.(Gen 1:28-31)

At Matthew 20, Jesus said that "the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.”(Matt 20:28) By being "the last Adam", he balanced the scales of God's perfect justice.

The problem here is very apparent, that the false belief that Jesus is God is being pushed here, that has had a long history, coming into focus during the 4th century C.E., first at the Council of Niceae in 325 C.E. with God and Jesus as equal being driven along, especially by Athanasius, but the finishing touches being placed on the "Holy Trinity" in 381 C.E. was at the Council of Constantinople with the holy spirit being added, calling it "Lord" and "life-giver".

However, Jesus established that:

(1) "the Father is greater than me" at John 14:28.

(2) he worships the Father, God, whose personal name is Jehovah (Ps 83:18; Isa 12:2; 26:4, King James Bible) at John 4:22-24, saying to the Samaritan woman: "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. God is a Spirit (not a man of flesh and blood), and those worshipping him (not me) must worship with spirit and truth."

(3) he clearly told Satan whom to worship at Matthew 4:10, saying: "Go away, Satan ! For it is written (at Deut 10:20): ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service."

(4) he did the Father's will, not his own, saying: "For I have not spoken of my own initiative, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak. And I know that his commandment means everlasting life. So whatever I speak, I speak just as the Father has told me.”(John 12:49, 50)

(5) Jesus has a Father (2 Cor 1:3; Eph 1:3, 17) so that he is "the beginning of the creation by God" (Rev 3:14), "the firstborn of all creation" (Col 1:15), so that at one time Jesus did not exist, while on the other hand, Jehovah God is "from everlasting to everlasting", having had no beginning.(Ps 90:2)

(6) Jesus was taught by Jehovah (John 8:28, 29) while Jehovah has no need for anyone to instruct him, being complete within himself.(Isa 40:13, 14)

(7) Jesus said in prayer to Jehovah: "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ."(John 17:3)

Hence, Jehovah did not offer himself, which is ridiculous, preposterous, but rather balanced his perfect scales of justice through his "only-begotten Son", Jesus, who as "the last Adam" was able to provide the needed ransom for obedient mankind, buying them back from sin and death.(Isa 25:6-9; Rom 5:12, 18)

God shall be all in all - I Cor 15:28 -
What part of ALL don't you understand?
 

justbyfaith

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(7) Jesus said in prayer to Jehovah: "This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ."(John 17:3)

The word for "and" in that verse is the Greek word "kai" which can be translated "even".

Therefore, the verse can be translated as,

"This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, even the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ."(John 17:3)

(5) Jesus has a Father (2 Cor 1:3; Eph 1:3, 17) so that he is "the beginning of the creation by God" (Rev 3:14), "the firstborn of all creation" (Col 1:15), so that at one time Jesus did not exist, while on the other hand, Jehovah God is "from everlasting to everlasting", having had no beginning.(Ps 90:2)

God has a Father (Revelation 1:6 (kjv)); Jesus being the beginning of the creation of God means that He is the Creator (see John 1:1-3); and that he is the firstborn over all creation means that He has preeminence over everything in creation.

God called David and Ephraim his firstborn in holy scripture; but neither one of these was the first person born in their families.

(6) Jesus was taught by Jehovah (John 8:28, 29) while Jehovah has no need for anyone to instruct him, being complete within himself.(Isa 40:13, 14)

God the Father emptied Himself of His Omniscience, in taking on an added nature of human flesh, so that He could be like us in every way (Hebrews 2:17).

(3) he clearly told Satan whom to worship at Matthew 4:10, saying: "Go away, Satan ! For it is written (at Deut 10:20): ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service."

Satan was not worshiping Jesus at that point. Of course it is Jehovah alone that we must worship; this indicates that Jesus is Jehovah God (see Hebrews 1:6, Luke 24:52).

(2) he worships the Father, God, whose personal name is Jehovah (Ps 83:18; Isa 12:2; 26:4, King James Bible) at John 4:22-24, saying to the Samaritan woman: "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation begins with the Jews. Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. God is a Spirit (not a man of flesh and blood), and those worshipping him (not me) must worship with spirit and truth."

God the Father, being a Spirit, took on an added nature of human flesh (see 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7). Jesus was and is a spirit and soul and body (see 1 Thessalonians 5:23).

(1) "the Father is greater than me" at John 14:28.

Jesus is less than the Father in His humanity.

As concerning Deity, they are equal (John 5:18).

(4) he did the Father's will, not his own, saying: "For I have not spoken of my own initiative, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak. And I know that his commandment means everlasting life. So whatever I speak, I speak just as the Father has told me.”(John 12:49, 50)

The Father both went forward to incarnate as the Son and also stayed behind in eternity; for it is the nature of one who dwells in eternity that they should dwell in it for ever. Therefore, even in the descending into time that took place with the Father, there was still an imprint of Himself that stayed behind in eternity that Jesus also prayed to and relied upon and His former self was in fact Jesus' God (see Hebrews 1:8-9).

Fact of the matter is, God became a Man and this is an integral part of what we know as the gospel of Jesus Christ.
 
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justbyfaith

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The account at 1 Timothy 2, does not say that "God gave himself as a ransom", but rather that "this is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all."(1 Tim 2:4-6; "corresponding ransom", Greek an·ti´ly·tron, from an·ti´, “against; in correspondence to; in place of,” and ly´tron, “ransom [price paid]”)

So, it is Jesus Christ who gave the "corresponding ransom", being equal to Adam before he rebelled in the garden of Eden, before he became a sinner, with Jesus becoming the "last Adam" at 1 Corinthians 15:45. God requires that for justice to be served, a one for one basis must be fulfilled, just as seen at Exodus 21 regarding the taking of a person's life by another person, so that "if a fatality does occur (in this case of two men when fighting hurt a pregnant woman and her unborn dies, verse 22), then you must give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, blow for blow", equal for equal.(Ex 21:23-25)

Thus, no more, no less, was Jesus to be what Adam was before his rebellion in the garden of Eden, a perfect man for a perfect man, for it was not God that sinned (which is totally absurd) so that God would have to offer himself to buy back what was lost, the hope of living forever on a paradise earth for Adam's descendants.(Gen 1:28-31)

At Matthew 20, Jesus said that "the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom in exchange for many.”(Matt 20:28) By being "the last Adam", he balanced the scales of God's perfect justice.

The problem here is very apparent, that the false belief that Jesus is God is being pushed here, that has had a long history, coming into focus during the 4th century C.E., first at the Council of Niceae in 325 C.E. with God and Jesus as equal being driven along, especially by Athanasius, but the finishing touches being placed on the "Holy Trinity" in 381 C.E. was at the Council of Constantinople with the holy spirit being added, calling it "Lord" and "life-giver".
If Jesus was a mere man, even according to what you have posted above, He would only be able to pay the penalty of one other man.

But if He is God, He is infinitely able to pay the penalty for a very great multitude.
 

Guestman

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God shall be all in all - I Cor 15:28 -
What part of ALL don't you understand?

What part of "corresponding ransom" do you not understand ? When you buy a car part at an auto parts store or dealer, do you not want a "corresponding" part so that it fits your car exactly and the car continues to function as it should.

So, when the apostle Paul wrote that "there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—this is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time," he made clear that Jesus is "a corresponding ransom", the exact fit for Adam who rebelled against God, a perfect man for a perfect man (1 Cor 15:45), and that Jesus is the "mediator between God and men", not God between God and men. This is as clear as the nose on a person's face, well to reasonable people it is.

Have you not read 1 Corinthians 8:5, 6, whereby the apostle Paul wrote: "For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him."

Again, "clear as a bell", for Paul makes a clear distinction between God the Father and Jesus Christ. And at John 17:1-3, Jesus makes transparent who God is and who he is, saying in prayer to Jehovah God: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify your son so that your son may glorify you, just as you have given him authority over all flesh, so that he may give everlasting life to all those whom you have given to him. This means everlasting life, their coming to know you (not me), the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ."

Hence, Jehovah is "the only true God" while Jesus is the one who "you sent", subservient to Jehovah.(see John 12:49, 50) And when a person is sincere in their examination of the Bible, they can also see that John 1:1, 2 does not teach that Jesus is God, for when looked at it through an interlinear, it can be seen that Jesus is "a god", not "the God".

Note this about John 1:1, 2, whereby the apostle John clearly distinguished Jesus as "the Word" from "the God", for John used the Greek definite article of "ho" and "ton" (that means "the") to show what was what, for it reads according to a Greek interlinear, Scripture4all: "In beginning was the (definite article to show a specific individual, such as "the man" as opposed to "a man") Word and the (definite article) Word was toward (or with) the (definite article) God and god (no definite article, showing "god" as indefinite and as being any god) was the (definite article) Word. This was in beginning toward (or with) the (definite article) God."(Note: Koine Greek in which the Christian Greek Scriptures was written, commonly referred to as "the New Testament", did not have an indefinite article, such as "a", like languages such as English has)

John clearly differentiated "The Word" from "The God" by saying that "the Word was a god". This is confirmed in an ancient manuscript written in Sahidic Coptic, written some 1,000 years before the King James Bible. Regarding the earliest Coptic translations of the Bible, The Anchor Bible Dictionary says: “Since the [Septuagint] and the [Christian Greek Scriptures] were being translated into Coptic during the 3d century C.E., the Coptic version is based on [Greek manuscripts] which are significantly older than the vast majority of extant witnesses.”

Scholar Thomas O. Lambdin (leading scholar of Semitic and Egyptian languages, 1927-2020 C.E.) in his work Introduction to Sahidic Coptic, says: “The use of the Coptic articles, both definite and indefinite, corresponds closely to the use of the articles in English.”

Hence, the Coptic translation supplies interesting evidence as to how John 1:1 would have been understood back then. What do we find ? The Sahidic Coptic translation uses an indefinite article with the word “god” in the final part of John 1:1.

Thus, when rendered into modern English, the translation reads: “And the Word was a god.” Evidently, those ancient translators realized that John’s words recorded at John 1:1 did not mean that Jesus was to be identified as Almighty God. The Word was a god, not Almighty God.

The text of John 1:1 in Sahidic Coptic reads: "In the beginning existed the Word
and the Word existed with
the God and a god was
the Word".(SAHIDIC COPTIC TEXT; P. CHESTER BEATTY-813; WITH INTERLINEAR TRANSLATION, at the Chester Beatty Library, Dublin, Ireland)