God vs government

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Ruth

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Hi all, just read this, I do not think I am in agreement, would like your thoughts. Should Christians practice civil obedience over issues such as gay marriage, Obamas both control mandate?

I believe scripture teaches to submit to authority unless they call us to deny Christ. What unbelievers do is not my business, as far as birth control, nowhere in scripture does it say you can not practice this, and as far as your taxes paying for sinful things, well that already happens, and Jesus teaches pay your taxes.

........


Leaders at this week's National Religious Broadcasters conference warned Christians may soon be forced to practice civil disobedience.

Southern Baptist leader Richard Land and NRB board member Janet Parshall cited same-sex marriage and President Obama's birth control mandate as the reason why.

Land said those issues are non-negotiable, even at the cost of paying fines and going to jail.

Parshall said today's Christians may have to decide whether to "bow our knee" to government or to God.

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2013/March/NRB-Christians-May-Have-to-Choose-God-over-Govt/

Report
 

stefen

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Yes. Bible says to obey to our Government authorities for paying taxes on time, follow the rules and regulations, it will be for our safety only. But when it comes to devotional..! Its our each and every human being personal decision. They can restrict to not preach or speak about Jesus in public, as it was happened in our apostle days.

Daniel is the best example for standing in bible principle on govt decisions. We will be ready to die if something is being push by government to do which is not biblical.

Thanks.
 

afaithfulone4u

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stefen said:
Yes. Bible says to obey to our Government authorities for paying taxes on time, follow the rules and regulations, it will be for our safety only. But when it comes to devotional..! Its our each and every human being personal decision. They can restrict to not preach or speak about Jesus in public, as it was happened in our apostle days.

Daniel is the best example for standing in bible principle on govt decisions. We will be ready to die if something is being push by government to do which is not biblical.

Thanks.

You beat me to it stefen!
Daniel obeyed the king, but when it comes to putting the government above God's Word or cause our worship of the Lord to stop..... we do not obey in fact we are to be BOLD as Daniel and let God see our confidence in Him to deliver us from what ever discomfort we go through for His Word's sake.
 

Axehead

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Ruth said:
Hi all, just read this, I do not think I am in agreement, would like your thoughts. Should Christians practice civil obedience over issues such as gay marriage, Obamas both control mandate?

I believe scripture teaches to submit to authority unless they call us to deny Christ. What unbelievers do is not my business, as far as birth control, nowhere in scripture does it say you can not practice this, and as far as your taxes paying for sinful things, well that already happens, and Jesus teaches pay your taxes.

........


Leaders at this week's National Religious Broadcasters conference warned Christians may soon be forced to practice civil disobedience.

Southern Baptist leader Richard Land and NRB board member Janet Parshall cited same-sex marriage and President Obama's birth control mandate as the reason why.

Land said those issues are non-negotiable, even at the cost of paying fines and going to jail.

Parshall said today's Christians may have to decide whether to "bow our knee" to government or to God.

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2013/March/NRB-Christians-May-Have-to-Choose-God-over-Govt/

Report
Hi Rose,

I went to the link. I was unable to figure out what the NRB actually wants the masses of Christians to do.
 

Ruth

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Axehead said:
Hi Rose,

I went to the link. I was unable to figure out what the NRB actually wants the masses of Christians to do.
I agree, also I meant to say they are telling us to be disobedient to authority on these issues...I can not find the edit button?
 

aspen

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As an American citizen you are not required to agree with your leaders or their policies. I think a minority of Christians get frustrated when our leaders implement policies that allow behavior that seems to fall outside of Christian ideals. However, we do not live in a theocracy so I am not sure why people want to spend the energy judging the policies of a secular government and the behavior of nonChristians that live in our country - especially when it is all predicted within conservative eschatological narratives - in a crazy way, all the doom and gloom should be celebrated by this minority, rather than judged.....
 

Axehead

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Ruth said:
I agree, also I meant to say they are telling us to be disobedient to authority on these issues...I can not find the edit button?
What authority?
 

Ruth

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Axehead said:
What authority?
Did you read the article?

Maybe they mean if they can not speak against these issues on the air?

I was more conserned about them directing broadcasters to break the law.
 

Axehead

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Ruth said:
Did you read the article?

Maybe they mean if they can not speak against these issues on the air?

I was more conserned about them directing broadcasters to break the law.
Hi Ruth,

Yes, the article opened with this:

"Leaders at this week's National Religious Broadcasters conference warned Christians may soon be forced to practice civil disobedience."

then this...

"Parshall said today's Christians may have to decide whether to "bow our knee" to government or to God."

and then this...

"He warned biblical teachings are being dubbed hate speech -- and there's growing potential for discrimination lawsuits against Christian organizations for refusing to hire non-believers."

So, I think they are saying leaders of Christian organizations that are forced to hire homosexuals.

Do you think the government could do this if a Christian organization was not a "ward of the state"? By filing to be a 501c3 organization you are agreeing to come into compliance with the State. Christian organizations do this for the privilege of tax-exempt status and other "bennies", I believe. And by filing to be a 501c3 org, by extension, you are giving up some control to the government.

So, why not divorce completely from the government, forgetting about tax exempt status so you can speak your convictions without compromise and hire whoever you want to hire?

Now, maybe I am totally off the wall, and if so, I certainly would like to know why the government could still force their laws on non-governmental (related in any way), private organizations.

For instance, the government could not tell a house church, which is not a government incorporated org (like 501c3) to open their house church to ALL people. But, when one is incorporated under the laws of their land, they give up something, I think we are finding out.

I would love to hear other comments about this, because I am not well versed in these kind of laws and I would like to know if and where my reasoning is incorrect.

I had read that even before the 501c3 was established in the 1950s, that Church organizations were not taxed. I wish we had never gone down the road of incorporating. I think the government convinced the church to do it, in order to track all the "established" churches. I could be wrong there, too.

Axehead
 

SilenceInMotion

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Ruth said:
Hi all, just read this, I do not think I am in agreement, would like your thoughts. Should Christians practice civil obedience over issues such as gay marriage, Obamas both control mandate?

I believe scripture teaches to submit to authority unless they call us to deny Christ. What unbelievers do is not my business, as far as birth control, nowhere in scripture does it say you can not practice this, and as far as your taxes paying for sinful things, well that already happens, and Jesus teaches pay your taxes.

........


Leaders at this week's National Religious Broadcasters conference warned Christians may soon be forced to practice civil disobedience.

Southern Baptist leader Richard Land and NRB board member Janet Parshall cited same-sex marriage and President Obama's birth control mandate as the reason why.

Land said those issues are non-negotiable, even at the cost of paying fines and going to jail.

Parshall said today's Christians may have to decide whether to "bow our knee" to government or to God.

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2013/March/NRB-Christians-May-Have-to-Choose-God-over-Govt/

Report
The US government is not our authority, we are supposed to be the government. I think one of America's pitfalls in this era is forgetting that fact. The country is supposed to be a representative democracy, not us putting our heads at the heel of an 'authority'.

Christians are performing a righteous duty in rejecting gay marriage and birth control. Submission is for people under an autocracy, which is an authority. In biblical times, that's mostly all that existed.
 

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Ruth said:
Hi all, just read this, I do not think I am in agreement, would like your thoughts. Should Christians practice civil obedience over issues such as gay marriage, Obamas both control mandate?

I believe scripture teaches to submit to authority unless they call us to deny Christ. What unbelievers do is not my business, as far as birth control, nowhere in scripture does it say you can not practice this, and as far as your taxes paying for sinful things, well that already happens, and Jesus teaches pay your taxes.

........


Leaders at this week's National Religious Broadcasters conference warned Christians may soon be forced to practice civil disobedience.

Southern Baptist leader Richard Land and NRB board member Janet Parshall cited same-sex marriage and President Obama's birth control mandate as the reason why.

Land said those issues are non-negotiable, even at the cost of paying fines and going to jail.

Parshall said today's Christians may have to decide whether to "bow our knee" to government or to God.
First let's get one thing horribly clear. The United States as a democratic nation formally ended over a decade ago; Oct. 26, 2001 to be precise.* The constitution now lies on the rubbish heap of history. Gone!

"Gone like a freight train, gone like yesterday
Gone like a soldier in the civil war, bang bang
Gone like a '59 Cadillac
Like all the good things that ain't never comin' back."
- Scotty McCreery GONE

The days when Federal leadership considered action or inaction in the best interests of the country are over!

Congressional stagnation and grid lock are the rule of the day when it comes to matters of social interest, but when militarism and the special interests of the financial cartel and mega industries are concerned all bills are rubber stamped into law often without even being read by our legislators or reviewed by committee.

The president now rules by executive edict and has assumed the power to kill anyone abroad or at home without due process of law.

The Federal court system consistently rules against constitutional principles as advanced by our founding fathers and against Christian principles of morality and decency.

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power"
-Benito Mussolini

"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide."
- John Adams

"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. The bamboozle has captured us. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back."
-Carl Sagan

Moral issues are peripheral to religion. Morality as always is defined by the culture. Remember that everything the Nazis did was moral and legal. In America, murdering babies has been legal for a long time. Gay marriage and the gay lifestyle are now moral mainstream activities. All religions, including murderous Islam, are considered to be tolerant except Christianity, which is actually the most tolerant of them all. America is drenched in sin and debauchery!

The benchmark for the Christian religion is now our corrupt American culture, not God or the Bible! Christian evangelism, public demonstrations of Christian faith, prayer both public and private and even home Bible studies are either illegal or will soon be declared to be illegal in most places in the United States. The culture of American morality is antithetical to Christian principles.

Is your allegiance to God or to the politically correct American culture?

The question is now serious, being considered as to whether civil disobedience can be condoned in America. Does the reader need an example to decide whether it is or is not? Consider the life and work of Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. a man who exercised considerable civil disobedience during his life. If he were alive today I have no doubt that he would be in the forefront of leadership against the policies of the Federal government.

"There is nothing that expressed massive civil disobedience any more than the Boston Tea Party, and yet we give this to our young people and our students as a part of the great tradition of our nation. So I think we are in good company when we break unjust laws, and I think those who are wiling to do it and accept the penalty are those who are part of the saving of the nation. To ignore evil is to become an accomplice to it."
- Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.

TO IGNORE EVIL IS TO BECOME AN ACCOMPLICE TO IT.


"The individual who disobeys unjust law, whose conscience tells him it is unjust and who is willing to accept the penalty by staying in jail until that law is altered, is expressing at the moment the very highest respect for the law."
- Rev. King

Christians in America have arrived at the point in history when they must choose whether they will accede to the demands of an unjust government or whether they will disobey it. Such disobedience never goes unpunished by man, never goes unrewarded by God.


"The benchmark of a civilized society is the quality of its justice."
- Law & Order TV series


I love my country, but I fear that as long as I am a Christian my government will hate me.

but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...


(*) Oct. 26, 2001 was the date the Patriot Act was signed into law by President GW Bush. The act of congress effectively ended constitutional law in America.
 

aspen

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Paying attention to evil is not going to stop God's plan for the destruction of the world rjp. It seems to me that adopting a conspiracy theory worldview AND believing that the world is going to rise up and fight against Christ when He returns is redundant. Conspiracy theorists are constantly bemoaning the death of liberty in America and the rise of evil totalitarianism - conservative Christians are constantly teaching that Christ is going to come back and destroy the inevitable evil world. Makes me wonder if conspiracy theorist, conservative Christians wake up in the morning paranoid about the state of the world and then go to to bed at night with the words 'I told you so!' on their lips. Sounds exhausting to me - seems much better to simply accept all the doom and gloom of a dying world and stop ringing BS bell every time you run into signs of the inevitable, right? Last time someone tried to stop God's plan for Jesus, he was referred to as Satan.
 

Rex

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Because of all the times we disagree aspen, I just wanted to take the opportunity to say I agree with your post
 

aspen

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Rex said:
Because of all the times we disagree aspen, I just wanted to take the opportunity to say I agree with your post
Thanks Rex, I appreciate your effort
 

SilenceInMotion

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Evil prevails when good people do nothing. It is an observable fact.

One can only imagine the world we'd be living in if good people had never did anything. It's also proof that we do the Lord's work: God works through us (for all the ultra-pacifists out there).
 

Rex

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SilenceInMotion said:
Evil prevails when good people do nothing. It is an observable fact.

One can only imagine the world we'd be living in if good people had never did anything. It's also proof that we do the Lord's work: God works through us (for all the ultra-pacifists out there).
I don't believe that's a bible verse.

Can you point me to a verse where Jesus or the Apostles told us to petition men to change or make laws in the government, or did he instruct us to share the light with-in us -------->> thus changing the man

Back in the day the catholic church had a union with men and their laws that promised them light, but they called it the dark ages.
 

SilenceInMotion

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Rex said:
I don't believe that's a bible verse.

Can you point me to a verse where Jesus or the Apostles told us to petition men to change or make laws in the government, or did he instruct us to share the light with-in us -------->> thus changing the man
You mean point somewhere in the books God used man to write?

Expand your perception.
 

Rex

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Edmund Burke PC (12 January [NS] 1729 – 9 July 1797) was an Irish statesman, author, orator, political theorist and philosopher,
And of course his statement is used to entice Christians into the political arena of making and changing laws-->> instead of changing mens hearts

3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth,2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
 

Rex

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SilenceInMotion said:
I guess Jesus told Peter to bring a sword to cut firewood.
Are you implying Jesus means to say, go out and slay those unbelievers?
Or are we to defend ourselves? Luke 22:35-36

I know your church has no reservations about slaying unbelievers or those that don't believe in the catholic church, that is certainly the offensive even before the reformation, So during the reformation were the protestants being offensive or defensive. I thought I would mention it before you point to others behavior to justify your own churches.