"God won't violate your free will" they said.
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Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
No he won’t violate our free will…..unless he has appointed one as a prophet, in which case the prophet must do as his God instructs. He is acting as God’s representative in giving his warning message to the people. The prophets were sent to Israel to tell them of God’s displeasure when they veered off course, and to inform them of his actions if they did not repent and stop the activity for which he was going to punish them.
The Ninevites were a violent and wicked people, but they were not Israelites. This took place about 900 years before the birth of Christ.
Nineveh became the capital of the Assyrian Empire.….as such, Nineveh was a “city of bloodshed”. (Nahum 3:1) The Assyrians waged many wars of conquest and employed brutal methods in killing captured warriors.
The principal deity of Nineveh appears to have been Ishtar, a goddess of love and war.
It was their wanton wickedness and cruelty that God intended to put a stop to.
But Jonah allowed fear of man to interfere with his mission. He ran away in the opposite direction and almost caused harm to fellow passengers on the ship he took to get him away from his assignment. In fear of a raging storm, the mariners call for aid, “each one to his god,” while Jonah slept in the ship’s hold. (Jonah 1:5)
After arousing Jonah, they cast lots in an attempt to discover who is responsible for their plight. The lot falls upon Jonah. It is now that he makes known to them that he is a Hebrew, a worshiper of Jehovah, and that he is running away from his God-given task. He invites them to hurl him into the sea. After making further efforts to bring the ship through, they at last pitch Jonah overboard.…and the sea stops its raging.
After being swallowed by a large fish and spat out on dry land, Jonah returns to fulfill his assignment.
He is so successful that the entire city repents and ceases to continue their wicked ways, but instead of being happy about such a successful response to his preaching, with the king proclaiming that man and beast must fast and be clothed in sackcloth. Jehovah mercifully spares the city, yet Jonah became embarrassed that his prophesy would not be fulfilled, making him look foolish.
This story is full of lessons on obedience and humility, both of which Jonah had to learn the hard way, but he learned them nonetheless. They are recorded for our benefit and because it was Jonah who wrote the account, so it shows that he was made aware of the flaws in his character and adjusted his whole outlook on the privilege of being God’s representative…it ended well.
Jesus later contrasted the repentance of the Ninevites with the hardness of heart and outright rejection he experienced from the Jews during his own ministry, saying: “Men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and will condemn it; because they repented at what Jonah preached, but, look! something more than Jonah is here.”
He was referring to himself as the greatest prophet to be sent to a consistently wicked generation.
What do we learn about God and about his expectations of his earthly servants? Does he rightly expect our obedience? Does he condone wickedness? What did the Ninevites have to do so that God’s punishment would not come upon them?
The Ninevites were a violent and wicked people, but they were not Israelites. This took place about 900 years before the birth of Christ.
Nineveh became the capital of the Assyrian Empire.….as such, Nineveh was a “city of bloodshed”. (Nahum 3:1) The Assyrians waged many wars of conquest and employed brutal methods in killing captured warriors.
The principal deity of Nineveh appears to have been Ishtar, a goddess of love and war.
It was their wanton wickedness and cruelty that God intended to put a stop to.
But Jonah allowed fear of man to interfere with his mission. He ran away in the opposite direction and almost caused harm to fellow passengers on the ship he took to get him away from his assignment. In fear of a raging storm, the mariners call for aid, “each one to his god,” while Jonah slept in the ship’s hold. (Jonah 1:5)
After arousing Jonah, they cast lots in an attempt to discover who is responsible for their plight. The lot falls upon Jonah. It is now that he makes known to them that he is a Hebrew, a worshiper of Jehovah, and that he is running away from his God-given task. He invites them to hurl him into the sea. After making further efforts to bring the ship through, they at last pitch Jonah overboard.…and the sea stops its raging.
After being swallowed by a large fish and spat out on dry land, Jonah returns to fulfill his assignment.
He is so successful that the entire city repents and ceases to continue their wicked ways, but instead of being happy about such a successful response to his preaching, with the king proclaiming that man and beast must fast and be clothed in sackcloth. Jehovah mercifully spares the city, yet Jonah became embarrassed that his prophesy would not be fulfilled, making him look foolish.
This story is full of lessons on obedience and humility, both of which Jonah had to learn the hard way, but he learned them nonetheless. They are recorded for our benefit and because it was Jonah who wrote the account, so it shows that he was made aware of the flaws in his character and adjusted his whole outlook on the privilege of being God’s representative…it ended well.
Jesus later contrasted the repentance of the Ninevites with the hardness of heart and outright rejection he experienced from the Jews during his own ministry, saying: “Men of Nineveh will rise up in the judgment with this generation and will condemn it; because they repented at what Jonah preached, but, look! something more than Jonah is here.”
He was referring to himself as the greatest prophet to be sent to a consistently wicked generation.
What do we learn about God and about his expectations of his earthly servants? Does he rightly expect our obedience? Does he condone wickedness? What did the Ninevites have to do so that God’s punishment would not come upon them?
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Its the heart that aligns with the will of God, when we let the heart of God rule in our hearts, His will be done, there is no mistaking that fact.
A Born Again represents Jesus, they are led by the Spirit, they are brought to understand the will of God in their heart/spirit , which comes by divine heart revelation, which can take many years to understand.
Ephesians 3:17—“Christ may make His home in your hearts” “That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith, that you, being rooted and grounded in love.” Jesus Christ is living in our spirit. But from there, He wants to spread into the rest of our inward being, that is, into our heart.
So yes, when God shows you his will, or asks you to do something by divine heart revelation then without question, it will be done.
It may take a time to do his will..depending on God’s timing..His will is done in his timing, not our timing.
My opinion/ thoughts/ belief.
A Born Again does the will of the Father..but, as I explained, all in God’s timing...we are led by the Spirit, to do the will of the Father...
Free will . If we freely go against the will of the Father, it would be at our peril...I would NEVER defiantly go against God or his will ..I wouldn’t dare.
Romans 12:2 - And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
1 Thessalonians 5:18 - In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
1 Thessalonians 4:3 - For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
Jeremiah 29:11-13 - For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end. (Read More...)
John 6:38-40 - For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. (Read More...)
Hebrews 13:20-21 - Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, (Read More...)
1 Peter 2:15 - For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
1 John 2:16-17 - For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. (Read More...)
Ephesians 5:17 - Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
Matthew 7:21-23 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (Read More...)
Matthew 6:33 - But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
John 7:17 - If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Proverbs 19:21 - There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.
Micah 6:8 - He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
James 4:15 - For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.
1 Thessalonians 4:3-5 - For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: (Read More...)
Matthew 6:10 - Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven
A Born Again represents Jesus, they are led by the Spirit, they are brought to understand the will of God in their heart/spirit , which comes by divine heart revelation, which can take many years to understand.
Ephesians 3:17—“Christ may make His home in your hearts” “That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith, that you, being rooted and grounded in love.” Jesus Christ is living in our spirit. But from there, He wants to spread into the rest of our inward being, that is, into our heart.
So yes, when God shows you his will, or asks you to do something by divine heart revelation then without question, it will be done.
It may take a time to do his will..depending on God’s timing..His will is done in his timing, not our timing.
My opinion/ thoughts/ belief.
A Born Again does the will of the Father..but, as I explained, all in God’s timing...we are led by the Spirit, to do the will of the Father...
Free will . If we freely go against the will of the Father, it would be at our peril...I would NEVER defiantly go against God or his will ..I wouldn’t dare.
Romans 12:2 - And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
1 Thessalonians 5:18 - In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
1 Thessalonians 4:3 - For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
Jeremiah 29:11-13 - For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end. (Read More...)
John 6:38-40 - For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. (Read More...)
Hebrews 13:20-21 - Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, (Read More...)
1 Peter 2:15 - For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
1 John 2:16-17 - For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. (Read More...)
Ephesians 5:17 - Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
Matthew 7:21-23 - Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (Read More...)
Matthew 6:33 - But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
John 7:17 - If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
Proverbs 19:21 - There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the LORD, that shall stand.
Micah 6:8 - He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
James 4:15 - For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that.
1 Thessalonians 4:3-5 - For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: (Read More...)
Matthew 6:10 - Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven
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Ever talked to a non Christian and shown them the majesty, beauty and loving ki dress of God to them?
How did they respond, by accepting Jesus or in rejecting him?
Sinners are comfortable in their sin, so comfortable they do not know that they are chained and enslaved to their master the devil.
All Christians where broken free by Jesus.
All Christians where enpowered by the Spirit so that they could turn to Jesus.
Slaves do not voluntarily leave a master they love.
How did they respond, by accepting Jesus or in rejecting him?
Sinners are comfortable in their sin, so comfortable they do not know that they are chained and enslaved to their master the devil.
All Christians where broken free by Jesus.
All Christians where enpowered by the Spirit so that they could turn to Jesus.
Slaves do not voluntarily leave a master they love.
Hello, hope you are well!
Is it “the will of God”, that nations fight each other? No, I’m sure you would not think that. Such actions are diametrically opposed to the Prince of Peace. Matthew 5:44
So, if “we let the heart of God rule in our hearts”, would we join the world in supporting its wars?
Yet, what has the majority of Christendom done?
As Protestant clergyman Harry Emerson Fosdick admitted: “Even in our churches we have put the battle flags . . . With one corner of our mouth we have praised the Prince of Peace and with the other we have glorified war. So well have we succeeded in blending Christ and carnage, the Gospel and organized slaughter, that recently a missionary in an Oriental country, after an address upon Christian goodwill, was taken aside by a native, who said, ‘You must know that the educated people of this country look upon Christianity as a warring, blood-spilling religion.’”
The Bible states that false religion can be recognized by its fruitage: “They publicly declare they know God, but they disown him by their works.”—Titus 1:16.
In contrast, Jesus Himself stated displaying love - especially during the most challenging of circumstances - would ID His disciples. -John 13:34,35
It is by being obedient that we let “the heart of God rule in our hearts.” - John 15:14,17.
I hope you can follow my reasoning…
Is it “the will of God”, that nations fight each other? No, I’m sure you would not think that. Such actions are diametrically opposed to the Prince of Peace. Matthew 5:44
So, if “we let the heart of God rule in our hearts”, would we join the world in supporting its wars?
Yet, what has the majority of Christendom done?
As Protestant clergyman Harry Emerson Fosdick admitted: “Even in our churches we have put the battle flags . . . With one corner of our mouth we have praised the Prince of Peace and with the other we have glorified war. So well have we succeeded in blending Christ and carnage, the Gospel and organized slaughter, that recently a missionary in an Oriental country, after an address upon Christian goodwill, was taken aside by a native, who said, ‘You must know that the educated people of this country look upon Christianity as a warring, blood-spilling religion.’”
The Bible states that false religion can be recognized by its fruitage: “They publicly declare they know God, but they disown him by their works.”—Titus 1:16.
In contrast, Jesus Himself stated displaying love - especially during the most challenging of circumstances - would ID His disciples. -John 13:34,35
It is by being obedient that we let “the heart of God rule in our hearts.” - John 15:14,17.
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Posting a vid is not an argument. We are free to choose and God is free to impose consequences on our choices. Nothing in Jonah contradicts this.
However, there are Bible stories that make the argument much better that God sometimes messes with people's free will. I various battle scenarios, God invokes psychological warfare in getting the enemy to fear the approaching people of God. More powerful than this is the repeated "hardening of the heart" of Pharaoh, which means God made it so Pharaoh could not rely on his own Judgment.
Let's examine this idea of "Free Will." Is there another kind of will? Humans have many influences. I'm married and some scenarios I know my wife would prefer or not prefer a certain course of action. As a wise man, I take this into consideration. John Locke came up with the idea of Natural Law, what man may do in a state of nature. Civilization restrains some of this natural, free inclination. How much more so, when it comes to one influenced by God?
That was my experience, if you'd like to hear it.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Honestly, I cannot understand how this post relates to what @Ritajanice wrote regarding aligning with the will of God.
I observe no reasoning at all, merely an assertion. Let me paraphrase, With one corner of our mouth we have praised <Rudolph, the red nosed reindeer> and with the other we have used antibacterial soap. To give credit for reasoning, you really have to connect the dots, period. You made no attempt to do so.
Scripture is filled with war. From today's Devotional reading, Deuteronomy 13:8-9: "Show them no pity or compassion, and do not shield them. 9 But you shall surely kill them; your own hand shall be first against them to execute them." The 1st thing Jesus will do upon his 2nd Coming is war and conquer. Therefore, the whole line of "reasoning" is entirely baseless.
I strongly parse Jesus personal commands from our civic responsibility. Loving our neighbor includes arranging a meeting, from time to time, with him and his maker. Less dramatic scenarios is to compare "he who is without sin cast the first stone" with the obligation to sit on a jury and decide the fate of the defendant.
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Hello to the Original Poster,
It's Yahavahs will for some people to be poor and some people rich. However when it comes to the individual choices of a person, Yahavah will not force them to have faith in him. That is a change they must make for themselves.
It's Yahavahs will for some people to be poor and some people rich. However when it comes to the individual choices of a person, Yahavah will not force them to have faith in him. That is a change they must make for themselves.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Hello my friend.. I typed a whole post to you, then felt prompted to delete it all.
Let me imo , to be led to understand what you are saying in the spirit, rather than rush through your post . Without really taking the time to study what you are saying..that’s why I deleted my post..( I rushed through it, not a good trait...it’s certainly not of God, it’s of self.)..if it’s Gods will, I will get back to you..God Bless you, my friend.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
I 100% agree here, Amen!
Obedience can only be taught us, by the Spirit, would you agree with that?
Behold
Well-Known Member
God won't make anyone believe in Jesus, against their will.
And Jonah was not forced by Lying Calvinism, to trust in Christ.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Lying Hyper Calvinism teaches that you can't believe in Jesus, because you are a sinner... too far gone........Yet', millions of sinners ...do trust in Jesus every year, and not one of them was forced to do it by the Holy Spirit.
Calvinism, is a demonic Lie.
Avoid it or it will capture your mind, and you'll end up trying to convert Christians into Calvinism.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Hmmm. I always found that expression odd even though it is true. More precisely put is that there are people who don't have eyes to see or ears to hear the truth of the Gospel, of the Good News, of Jesus, sent by God to deliver us from ourselves, from sin that is in our heart.
Behold
Well-Known Member
No unbeliever has """eyes to hear or ears to hear"" until this is changed by the Holy Spirit.. .but all have faith., as "every person is given the measure of faith".
This is why 3 Billion believe that Muhammed is their Prophet.. they ALL have placed THEIR FAITH in Him.
This is why Tom Cruise is a L. Ron Hubbard, disciple.. its because Tom placed his FAITH, in Scientology., and he will share this Faith, with you, while you share your faith in Christ, with Tom.
What God is looking for, is for us ALL..... to place our faith, we all have.....In His Son..."All who will believe, shall be saved"/
Now How does God cause that?.....
Well, its not by looking for HIS Faith that He forced inside you, by predestination........so, He's not going to put faith in you, as that would be His, he was accepting.........not YOURS.
God is not looking for His faith... Reader.. He's looking for YOUR FAITH in Christ.. and He'll take it every single time., per unbeliever who just Trusted in Christ by FAITH.... = THEIRS.
God is looking for YOUR Faith, or Tom Cruise's Faith.....and what The Holy Spirit does.. is He reveals to the heart of a hearer... when they hear the truth about Jesus..in some way... that its TRUE.. That its TRUTH they are Hearing.
The best Christian i have ever known, is a 78 yr old woman, a former Catholic since childhood... who gave HER FAITH in Christ to GOD, when she first watched "Jesus of Nazareth" the movie.
She was a hell bound sinner...water baptized and confirmed.......and watched this movie, and TRUSTED IN CHRIST....= that is HER FAITH.... and it was the HS using that MOVIE.. to lead her to see the TRUTH and Then SHE placed HER FAITH... In Yeshua.....In JESUS.
So.....
That is one method.... that is "drawing all people to Christ" that Jesus said...like this.... "If i be lifted up (on THE Cross) I will DRAW ALL People to ME"..
She watched Jesus in that Movie, being Crucified .. being LIFTED UP on the Cross... .. and when we preach the Gospel, we are Lifting up Jesus on the Cross.....so that unbelievers can place their faith in Christ = as the HS reveals that Jesus is TRUE.. that this Gospel is TRUTH.
This is the "hearing of Faith"..
This is "Faith (in Christ) comes by Hearing"......about Jesus, (The Gospel) and the HS reveals to the listener's HEART, that its TRUE...
And then, THEY will put THEIR FAITH in CHRIST.......or they wont at that time.
They will have more chances, until they die, or until they develop a "seared conscience", and can no longer HEAR The Truth, anymore.
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
Man who says God won’t force anyone to believe, against their will,they say this because they have no understanding of supernatural faith, it’s a gift from God, for those he chose and predestined to be conformed into Jesus image.
Their faith is their own faith ,it’s limited, it can’t go into or understand the supernatural realm, of the Spirit.
When you ask some of them spirit questions, they can’t answer them or try to evade them.
No one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit..Jesus also said, by their fruit you will know them.
Their faith is their own faith ,it’s limited, it can’t go into or understand the supernatural realm, of the Spirit.
When you ask some of them spirit questions, they can’t answer them or try to evade them.
No one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit..Jesus also said, by their fruit you will know them.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Supernatural faith is one of the 9 Spiritual Gifts.
These are for the body of Christ.
God does not give this to unbelievers, just as God does not give the "Gift of Tongues" to unbelievers.
The Reason someone can believe in Christ, is because "all have a/the measure of Faith".
"well then why wont some believe in Jesus".
"why is it that in my church, 400 people are in it, and 125 are not born again..so how can that be if everyone has faith to believe".
A.) Because some dont want to believe........what they know is True.
"""""""So how can they KNOW, and yet, its not counted by God ?"""""
AA.) Its because they "came to the knowledge of the truth"... but they wont take the step of faith.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
These are for those who were chosen and predestined to believe.
Who said he did?
You have a measure of your own faith, which is no faith at al.
Supernatural faith is a gift from God, no good going over the same ground with you, as you have no understanding of what supernatural faith is,
Where does God make himself known, by his supernatural rebirth,.. where do you know God and by whose witness?
Because God hasn’t brought them to belief in their spirit...I’ve already gone over this many times with you, you cannot believe in your heart/spirit, that God is who he says he is, without him gifting us faith.
Born Again of imperishable seed, you always leave that out, which means what ? Plus where does his seed take root and grow!
Sorry, only God chooses who will believe and who won’t, I’ve posted scripture showing this , only you refute it every time it’s posted.
According to you,
, RJ says you can’t step out in faith unless your spirit has been birthed..
You unfortunately have no understanding of supernatural faith, your limited , that’s why you accuse the brethren of being calvinists....you don’t have those spiritual eyes and ears..just your own repeat after repeat opinions..I see no growth in your spiritual understanding whatsoever..just the same old speech and pattern.
No one knows when they will become Born Of The Spirit..you believe you can choose to believe in God...sorry, you need his witness, testifying / witnessing that truth to our heart/spirit....we are spirit children , the Bible is a spirit filled book of knowledge and revelations, it’s not the Living God.
Seems you only know the God of the Bible...you need to know him in your heart/spirit.thats why we must be Born Again of imperishable seed.
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St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Behold said:
Supernatural faith is one of the 9 Spiritual Gifts.
These are for the body of Christ.
[
Supernatural faith is one of the 9 Spiritual Gifts.
These are for the body of Christ.
What was everyone else chosen and predestined for? Destruction?
[
Ritajanice
Born-Again
God hasn’t given me divine heart revelation on for destruction ..I have no understanding of it.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Me either.
That's why I am a Universalist.
It is not in God's character to create with the purpose of destruction.
But that is what mainstream Christianity believes. (sigh)
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