I know there are many that believe in the ‘mystery’ of the trinity, and that in some mysterious way God manifest Himself as God the Father at times, then God the Son other times, and even God the Holy Ghost still at other times. To those that believe such doctrine I ask the following;
Please direct me to the book, chapter and verse that says the Holy spirit is a God.
I know that the Father is a God and the Son is a God because God's word says so. Here are just a few of the many scriptures that states this fact;
John.1
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Phil.2
[6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Nowhere in God's inspired word does it EVER say the Holy Spirit is a God. Let’s search the scriptures to see what they really say about the ‘spirit’ of God.
Spirits; Holy and Evil
The following scriptures speaks of (7) "Holy Spirits".
Rev.4
[5] And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
Rev.5
[6] And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Now how do they fit into mans trinity theory? Should we take this to mean God the Father, God the Son and God the Seven Holy Spirits? After all…..the book does say, “…seven Spirits of God…” Now what kind of sense does this make?
And since there are "Holy Spirits" what about the "Evil Spirits";
1Sam.18
[10] And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.
Judg.9
[23] Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:
So God sends "Holy Spirits" and "Evil Spirits"? Are they all God's too?
Please explain how ALL of these "Spirits", ALL from God, fit into the trinity theory!
While you are attempting to prove that, with scripture, here is something a tad easier to understand. Let’s read what God’s word has to say about His spirits.
Heb.1
[7] And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
So Angels are spirits made by God. ALL angels are spirits made by God. The difference between "Holy Spirits" and "Evil Spirits" is that evil spirits are all those that sided with Satan and Holy Spirits did not.
And what of the following scripture;
1John.5
[7] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Just how are they all one? Let's read how Jesus Christ explains it to us;
John.17
[1] These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Again we see from reading above Jesus (God) SHARING the Glory with the Father (God), even before the world. Let's continue;
[11] And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
So the Son is ONE with the Father AND all those that the Father has given the Son are ALSO ONE! Let's read more;
[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
[18] As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
[19] And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
So the ones that God sent to Jesus are separated, or sanctified, by His word, the Holy scriptures. Let's read who else is sanctified by the word and made ONE with God;
[20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
So now we read that EVERYONE that believes in the word/scriptures and brings the SAME message are ONE, just as the Father and the Son are ONE! Now let's read who brings the message of God;
John.14
[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John.15
[26] But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John.16
[13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
So the Comforter, also called the Spirit of Truth and the Holy Ghost, or Holy Spirit, brings ONLY what was given to him. So if the Holy Spirit/Comforter/Holy Ghost/Spirit of Truth brings the same message, he too is ONE with everyone that does the same.
So now when we read the following, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." it is much clearer.
This scripture IS NOT saying all (3) form into one, or that the Father is for one dispensation and the Son and the Holy Spirit for another. Nor does it mention anything about them being from the same substance or any nonsense like that.
The scripture simply means that EACH one of them, ALL (3), have and bring the SAME message.
You will find throughout the scriptures, that God's Holy Spirits speak and act with the authority of God, but they are NOT God!
More scriptures
Gen.22
[11] And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
[12] And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
[15] And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
[16] And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
[17] That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
[18] And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
So here the angel spoke with all of the authority of God!
Isa.63
[9] In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
So we find an ANGEL saving the nation of Israel. Let's see when this happened;
[10] But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
[11] Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?
[12] That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name?
[13] That led them through the deep, as an horse in the wilderness, that they should not stumble?
So the period of time being spoken of here is when the Angel of the Lord, a HOLY SPIRIT, looked over and protected the nation of Israel while they were in the wilderness. Let's continue;
[14] As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.
So the Holy Spirit we find, in this case, is the one that followed the nation while in the wilderness.
So the HOLY SPIRIT is one of the many Holy Angels of the Lord. Let's read the actual account above;
Exod.23
[20] Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
[21] Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
[22] But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.
[23] For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.
So now we see that the Holy Spirit spoken of in Isa. was actually one of God's Holy Angels. Let's read more about God's 'Holy Spirit', or 'Holy Angel', as he is sometimes called;
Exod.3
[2] And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
[4] And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
[5] And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
[6] Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
So the angel spoke as if he were the Lord. Let’s read more;
Num.22
[35] And the angel of the LORD said unto Balaam, Go with the men: but only the word that I shall speak unto thee, that thou shalt speak. So Balaam went with the princes of Balak.
Now let’s read who Balaam said gave him the words to speak;
[38] And Balaam said unto Balak, Lo, I am come unto thee: have I now any power at all to say any thing? the word that God putteth in my mouth, that shall I speak.
Even though the angel of the Lord gave Balaam the words to say, Balaam said it was the Lord that put the words in his mouth.
Above we see the 'angel of the Lord' speaking in the place of God. We can see this done many times in the bible.
Judg.2
[1] And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.
Again, the angel, 'Holy Spirit' is talking as though he was the one that made the covenant, though we know it was really Jesus, as we learned from the lesson, the angel still spoke as if it were he that made the agreement with the nation of Israel.
2Kgs.19
[35] And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.
Now let's look to see what the NT has to say about this 'Holy Angel';
Mark.12
[36] For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
So now we see that what was known as the 'Angel of God', 'Holy Angel'. 'Angel of the Lord', is sometimes called the "Holy Ghost'. Let's read more;
Mark.13
[11] But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
Luke.2
[26] And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
Luke.12
[12] For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
John.14
[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Acts.13
[2] As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
[4] So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.
2Pet.1
[21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
So this same Holy Ghost in the NT was what was speaking to the prophets in the OT! Let's look at just a few more;
1John.5
[7] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
So there are THREE that bear record! But is the 'Holy Ghost' God? Not from what we have read thus far. Here is one more;
Rev.1
[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
So God the Father gave the message to Jesus. Jesus, in turn gave the message to an Angel, an Holy Angel no doubt. And the Holy Angle gave the message to John.
So.......do I believe in God's Holy Spirit? Of course. He's been around for a very long time. Do I believe God's Holy Spirit in anything other than an Angel? How can I, when we have just read so many scriptures saying that is what he is....an HOLY ANGEL…..NOT A GOD!
.
Please direct me to the book, chapter and verse that says the Holy spirit is a God.
I know that the Father is a God and the Son is a God because God's word says so. Here are just a few of the many scriptures that states this fact;
John.1
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Phil.2
[6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Nowhere in God's inspired word does it EVER say the Holy Spirit is a God. Let’s search the scriptures to see what they really say about the ‘spirit’ of God.
Spirits; Holy and Evil
The following scriptures speaks of (7) "Holy Spirits".
Rev.4
[5] And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
Rev.5
[6] And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Now how do they fit into mans trinity theory? Should we take this to mean God the Father, God the Son and God the Seven Holy Spirits? After all…..the book does say, “…seven Spirits of God…” Now what kind of sense does this make?
And since there are "Holy Spirits" what about the "Evil Spirits";
1Sam.18
[10] And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.
Judg.9
[23] Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:
So God sends "Holy Spirits" and "Evil Spirits"? Are they all God's too?
Please explain how ALL of these "Spirits", ALL from God, fit into the trinity theory!
While you are attempting to prove that, with scripture, here is something a tad easier to understand. Let’s read what God’s word has to say about His spirits.
Heb.1
[7] And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
So Angels are spirits made by God. ALL angels are spirits made by God. The difference between "Holy Spirits" and "Evil Spirits" is that evil spirits are all those that sided with Satan and Holy Spirits did not.
And what of the following scripture;
1John.5
[7] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Just how are they all one? Let's read how Jesus Christ explains it to us;
John.17
[1] These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
[5] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Again we see from reading above Jesus (God) SHARING the Glory with the Father (God), even before the world. Let's continue;
[11] And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
So the Son is ONE with the Father AND all those that the Father has given the Son are ALSO ONE! Let's read more;
[17] Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
[18] As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
[19] And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
So the ones that God sent to Jesus are separated, or sanctified, by His word, the Holy scriptures. Let's read who else is sanctified by the word and made ONE with God;
[20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
So now we read that EVERYONE that believes in the word/scriptures and brings the SAME message are ONE, just as the Father and the Son are ONE! Now let's read who brings the message of God;
John.14
[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John.15
[26] But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John.16
[13] Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
So the Comforter, also called the Spirit of Truth and the Holy Ghost, or Holy Spirit, brings ONLY what was given to him. So if the Holy Spirit/Comforter/Holy Ghost/Spirit of Truth brings the same message, he too is ONE with everyone that does the same.
So now when we read the following, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." it is much clearer.
This scripture IS NOT saying all (3) form into one, or that the Father is for one dispensation and the Son and the Holy Spirit for another. Nor does it mention anything about them being from the same substance or any nonsense like that.
The scripture simply means that EACH one of them, ALL (3), have and bring the SAME message.
You will find throughout the scriptures, that God's Holy Spirits speak and act with the authority of God, but they are NOT God!
More scriptures
Gen.22
[11] And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
[12] And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
[15] And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
[16] And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
[17] That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
[18] And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
So here the angel spoke with all of the authority of God!
Isa.63
[9] In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.
So we find an ANGEL saving the nation of Israel. Let's see when this happened;
[10] But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.
[11] Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?
[12] That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name?
[13] That led them through the deep, as an horse in the wilderness, that they should not stumble?
So the period of time being spoken of here is when the Angel of the Lord, a HOLY SPIRIT, looked over and protected the nation of Israel while they were in the wilderness. Let's continue;
[14] As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name.
So the Holy Spirit we find, in this case, is the one that followed the nation while in the wilderness.
So the HOLY SPIRIT is one of the many Holy Angels of the Lord. Let's read the actual account above;
Exod.23
[20] Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
[21] Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
[22] But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.
[23] For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.
So now we see that the Holy Spirit spoken of in Isa. was actually one of God's Holy Angels. Let's read more about God's 'Holy Spirit', or 'Holy Angel', as he is sometimes called;
Exod.3
[2] And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
[4] And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.
[5] And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.
[6] Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
So the angel spoke as if he were the Lord. Let’s read more;
Num.22
[35] And the angel of the LORD said unto Balaam, Go with the men: but only the word that I shall speak unto thee, that thou shalt speak. So Balaam went with the princes of Balak.
Now let’s read who Balaam said gave him the words to speak;
[38] And Balaam said unto Balak, Lo, I am come unto thee: have I now any power at all to say any thing? the word that God putteth in my mouth, that shall I speak.
Even though the angel of the Lord gave Balaam the words to say, Balaam said it was the Lord that put the words in his mouth.
Above we see the 'angel of the Lord' speaking in the place of God. We can see this done many times in the bible.
Judg.2
[1] And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.
Again, the angel, 'Holy Spirit' is talking as though he was the one that made the covenant, though we know it was really Jesus, as we learned from the lesson, the angel still spoke as if it were he that made the agreement with the nation of Israel.
2Kgs.19
[35] And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.
Now let's look to see what the NT has to say about this 'Holy Angel';
Mark.12
[36] For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
So now we see that what was known as the 'Angel of God', 'Holy Angel'. 'Angel of the Lord', is sometimes called the "Holy Ghost'. Let's read more;
Mark.13
[11] But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
Luke.2
[26] And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.
Luke.12
[12] For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say.
John.14
[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Acts.13
[2] As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
[4] So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.
2Pet.1
[21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
So this same Holy Ghost in the NT was what was speaking to the prophets in the OT! Let's look at just a few more;
1John.5
[7] For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
So there are THREE that bear record! But is the 'Holy Ghost' God? Not from what we have read thus far. Here is one more;
Rev.1
[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
So God the Father gave the message to Jesus. Jesus, in turn gave the message to an Angel, an Holy Angel no doubt. And the Holy Angle gave the message to John.
So.......do I believe in God's Holy Spirit? Of course. He's been around for a very long time. Do I believe God's Holy Spirit in anything other than an Angel? How can I, when we have just read so many scriptures saying that is what he is....an HOLY ANGEL…..NOT A GOD!
.
