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God's Fire is Spiritual not Literal

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Benoni, Aug 30, 2009.

  1. Benoni

    Benoni New Member

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    Many talk about being perfect; not me; I am flesh, and carnal and I praise God for my carnality; my sin and even my shame. Perfection will come; but God is using our sin, our shortcoming, our spiritual immaturity to bring about that spiritual maturity; not religious maturity; God is more interested in the process. When Jesus was baptized in the RIVER Jordon; He received a dove (He is perfect) ; BUT on the day Pentecostal had fully come what did believers get, the Holy Spirit with cloven tongues of fire; we are not perfect. So often Christian’s condemn the world for its flesh and sin; ignoring the log in our own eye. Sin was put here by God to change us; and He is changing us now and will change us by the purging power of His divine fire. Even though the judgements of God will be against the evil works that man has done, those judgements will still result in man's salvation. 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 says, "Every man's work shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. "God is spirit - that is His substance. God is love that is His nature. God is also light and fire - they are His manifestations. We speak of fiery trials, HE IS IN EVERY ONE OF THEM. May we go even farther? He is the source of the fire in our fiery trial, HE' is the fire thereof. You say that God's hand is resting upon you - you say that He has filled with His Spirit and His anointing is upon your life, guiding you into all truth. Then don't be amazed at the fiery testing that is yours also, for with every advancing step into new truth, there needs to be a purging out of error and past traditions, sin and shame; which are contrary to pure truth. The fire to burn out the dross is the Holy Spirit God has placed within, GOD is fire. "Kenneth Wuest, in his translation, calls the fiery trial 'the smelting process.' A fiery ordeal, a smelting process - why? because it will both purify us, as well as reveal what degree of quality has been attained within. We become so involved with the exterior happenings of the trial, how our flesh hurts, etc., that we forget the actual purpose is for the INNER PROCESSING, until we are of a PURE SPIRIT before Him. When suddenly we become aware of 'what spirit we are of' in some of these happenings, it sends us back to our knees in repentance and beseeching God to purge out these unholy traits. HE already knows what is in us, but the fires certainly expose us to ourselves. Sometimes we bow low in praise because we see what He has wrought, and are amazed at our own reaction to a situation - of the calm, the peace, the rest we have in it all. Then we also have those other times when the agitation of our spirit reveals that there are vast areas within that still need to be dealt with, purified and cleansed, until 'ALL that is within me (can) bless His holy name' (Ps. 103:1). Yet in all of this working, praise God, we find in Him NO CONDEMNATION - just that continual drawing upward and onward, being assured that HE who hath begun in us this good work, will also bring it to a successful conclusion in His own time" - end quote.
     
  2. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    I had it all wrong!!! I am trying to grow in the Lord. Here I thought he gave us apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers. To help us mature.Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Then I thought it was his Word. 2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. What a great bible study Benoni!!! I am going to that party tonight, get real drunk and chase some girls. I bet God could really use that to help me grow. I should be a spiritual giant in no time. Thank you Brother Benoni!!! I get my old party life back. It's people like you that really help us see the "REAL" truth in God's Word. uh, when does that dross part get burned out of me? I hope God waits until the hangover is gone.Be blessed (and party on dude!!!)Jesus Is Lord.
     
  3. Benoni

    Benoni New Member

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    This is true brother Mike; but the subject is God's fire. What do these verse have to do with fire? Here is an example of what I am speaking of take Daniels friend’s thrown in the Fiery Furnace in Babylon where only their bondages were burn. Does not . Dan 3:23 And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace. 24Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king. 25He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God. When Jesus was Baptized in the River Jordon; He Got a dove. On the other hand when Christians were Baptized with the Spirit of truth they received cloven tongues of fire. You see Jesus is perfect; we are not; we need the fire for our change.
     
  4. Benoni

    Benoni New Member

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    Brother Mike here is youre chance for youre "hope and dream to improve your self so that you may obtain the high standards. Show me how God's Fire is spiritual?
     
  5. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    show how God's fire is spiritual. umm...... I was thinking about the party. Ok, I'll give it a try.Oh, you people that go through toil and trouble. You want God's best, you want to grow and mature in the things of God, to be used by God to do his Work!!! Well, God is starting a Work in you!!! OH, don't fret when you get sick or have pain, this is just part of the refining process, a test to see how well you can hold up. Its the fire of God trying your faith. How can you ever be used, if your soul has not walked through the hot coal and fiery process of God refining fire that burns in you. 1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: Did you not know this was a spiritual fire?? One the removes all impurities of dross in your life!!! friends, let me tell you. If you have lost a loved one due to a horrible can opener accident, or swallowed your toothbrush by mistake. Don't say the devil is attacking, Don't say it was a accident. NO, it was God trying your faith by fire!! Spiritual fire. did you not know our God is as a consuming fire?Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire. once you get over the loss of God killing your loved one in that can opener accident, and once you get that toothbrush removed from your gut, you will look back and know that the horrible things you went though and survived, removed greats amount of dross from your life, making you more fit for the Masters use. When God is done maiming you, and putting you though these fiery trials, it will all be worth it. Soon only pure Gold will start to shine through your life. Oh, and its all based on Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. Why would Jesus say you would have to "BUY" the Gold?? Because to get that Gold it will cost you. It may cost you a limb, it may cost you all your loved ones as God takes them home early, but it will be worth the price, if you actually survive all of it. So before you want to take the step to be used mightily of God. You better count the cost. A trial by fire awaits. Now about that party..................Jesus Is Lord.
     
  6. Benoni

    Benoni New Member

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    I understand we do not agree; and our debates have gotten pretty negative to including not agreeing with some ones take of certain chapters and verse, but what is sad is the sarcasm you use when quoting God’s Word. We are still talking God’s Word here which you are making a mockery of these verses and their content. But it is God who controls all things especially Satan; I always find it amazing to look at how God hides this deep truth in scripture. Today God’s people are not looking to overcome but looking to escape in a white cloud somewhere where they believe their troubles will be over with; God wants overcomers at the end of the Bible not escapist. Those who like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego who will go though God’s fire and loose nothing but their bondages. Then David said, This is the house of the LORD God, and this is the altar of the burnt offering for Israel" (1 Chron. 22:1).It was the threshing floor of Oman the Jebusite, where David had offered up burnt offerings and peace offerings to eliminate the plague that had come upon Israel through David's folly. We do not know how Satan had gained this foothold in David. At any rate the ransom money had not been collected from the people when David took the census, and God had already warned that a plague might fall if this was not done. (See Ex. 30:12-16.) But God in mercy revealed to David his sin, and also the solution. David obeyed and set up an altar on the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite which he purchased from Ornan for 600 shekels of gold. Now this plot of ground that was to become the site of the exceedingly magnificent Temple of Solomon. David said, "This is the house of the LORD God, and this is the altar of burnt offering." It was a proclamation of faith--God had declared this to be His plan, and therefore it was so. It had yet to become manifest. The preparation of the site was extremely important. It was the place of the burnt offering. It is believed to have been the very spot upon which Abraham had offered up Isaac as a burnt offering many centuries earlier. But now in David's time it had become a threshing floor. The Temple of Solomon was to be erected on a harvest floor. It would also be dedicated on the occasion of the Feast of Tabernacles, when the nation had gathered in their wines and oils, and had reaped their harvest. The early Church was really the seed Church. True it was inaugurated at Pentecost, which was the Feast of Harvest, but it was really a "firstfruits" harvest. The final harvest would be in the seventh month on the occasion of the Feast of Tabernacles, which was the Feast of Ingathering. The "glorious Church"--not having spot, or wrinkle, or blemish, or any such thing--is the harvest Church. The great winnowing fan of the Harvester is in the hands of the Husbandman, Who has patiently waited for "the precious fruit of the earth." The fire has been kindled to destroy the chaff of the threshing floor. Then He will gather the grain into His garner--grain that has come to full maturity and perfection, just like the good seed that was planted in the earth almost 2,000 years ago, when our Lord Jesus was faithful as the "corn of wheat" to "fall into the ground and die."
     
  7. Benoni

    Benoni New Member

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    Jesus got a dove when He was baptized in the river Jordon; Early Christian’s got cloven tongues of fire. WHY?We are not perfect and have not arrived and understand my God is a consuming fire and that is a good thing. Those who love the Lord and long to see His purpose fulfilled in their lives, are they willing to accept Him as a refiner’s fire, as a thresher of wheat, as a presser of olives, as a crusher of grapes, and as a scourging Father! We accepted Him as Saviour, Baptizer, Healer, and Blesser; now we are accepting Him as the Lord of the fires! Our Father has made us willing to embrace the means He uses to perfect us. He perfects us in the crucible of adversities. The tribulations He sends us are not punishments for past failures, but divine tools to conform us to His image. Paul’s thorn in the flesh, Job’s loss of all his possessions, family, and health, Joseph’s betrayal by his brethren, his being sold as a slave, and later his being falsely accused and thrown into prison, were all for a divine purpose.
     
  8. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    There are repeated judgments with fire at the coming of our Lord and judgment of the Earth. There is no doubt in my mind that God is a consuming fire on many levels, so this false dichotomy that is erected here is not the real question and hardly the real answer. It's very clear from Scripture that both works and objects/people will be burnt in judgment. In Psalms, fire is literally said to run out in front of God. When the Bible says something like this, I believe it.
     
  9. Benoni

    Benoni New Member

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  10. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    That's a bold faced lie. Either you completely did not understand what I said, or you just want to use a red herring and make yourself feel like folks will believe you just because you throw around statements like that to myself and others.You speak about others posting the Word of God, so why not take your own advice. I see half the post is paragraphs explaining what you want me to say. However, I did not say it so I'll ignore the vast majority of it because I trust folks to read to the Word of God, and not the words of Benoni at that.
     
  11. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    Benoni, you say I am being sarcastic? I know what the refiner fire doctrine is.My post was completely accurate. I used the same scriptures that are used for this Doctrine. Where did I go wrong? I have heard versions of this doctrine preached at my own church.
    I gave examples of trials with the can opener accident, and swallowing your toothbrush by mistake. I told about loosing loved ones!!!! Just as Job lost his children. Now what part did I miss?I talked about how God uses horrible things to get the dross out of your life, to where the Gold shines through. That is the Doctrine!!!! How could you not be happy with what I posted?? I tried to be on your side. Let me explain something to you. You say Job having his children murdered, and Paul having to suffer with a thorn, Joseph being sold as a slave, are Good Things for God's divine purpose. Do you know what it's like to loose a child Benoni? To see an empty spot at the dinner table where you child use to sit? To see play things laying around, where the room use to be filled with the laughs and giggles of your child playing? but now your child is dead. You have no concept of what Job went though, No concept of what Jacob went through as his sons brought back a coat covered in blood, thinking that was the blood of his boy. Those things are EVIL Benoni, and the problem is that you don't know what evil is, nor does anyone else that preaches the stupid doctrine of the refiners fire. My father in heaven is not like that. Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.Death of loved ones, pain and suffering, sickness, is of the devil, and it is evil. People that believe this False Doctrine Go to the doctor when they get sick. WHY? it may be God working out his divine purpose. Why would you go to the Doctor if you think it's God, doing this to you and get out of his will? They are hypocrites!!!!! thats why, and by going to the Doctor tells you just how weak and fake they are, they don't even believe the garbage they spew out of their mouth when it's them that are actually hurting. Jesus Is Lord
     
  12. Benoni

    Benoni New Member

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    Actually you are the one who said God's "It's very clear from Scripture that both works and objects/people will be burnt in judgment. In Psalms, fire is literally said to run out in front of God. When the Bible says something like this, I believe it" . But it is saying something like what it is? I see very literal in God Word; for the letter killeth.Prov 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter. Yes fire is literal in Psalms; (a barber pole is literal but it points to something other then it self) but is the message of fire literal when it comes what God has plan for billions and billions of people God has never called and for this reason they cannot believe?God is a spirit; they that worship must worship him in spirit and truth. 1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come. example Example: NT:5178 a : Strong’s: tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of Scripture)
     
  13. HammerStone

    HammerStone Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Surely you know as Christians we have no fear. It seems as though you confuse the word Judgment with punishment, so let's get that clear right here right now. Like it or not, judgment is coming as per the Word of God:
    Similarly:
    If we've done the work of the Lord, the bad stuff will burn off (whether YOU see that literally, physically, or whatever else) and the good will be left. We all go through judgment, and judgment does not equal punishment.God is what he sees fit to be, he his name YHVH. He judges whether you like it or believe it.
     
  14. Benoni

    Benoni New Member

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    Wow I agree with all you say here...:)
     
  15. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    Mal 3:2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap: Mal 3:3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness. Lets put this in perspective with some other scriptures. What is God purging??? he tells us if we keep reading.Mal 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts. Pro 25:4 Take away the dross from the silver, and there shall come forth a vessel for the finer. Pro 25:5 Take away the wicked from before the king, and his throne shall be established in righteousness. Take the dross away from the king (Wicked) and his throne shall be established in righteousness. Dross has always meant groups of people. Not something IN a single person. If God is taking dross out of you, then you were a adulterer, witch, a lier, you were wicked and now YOUR DEAD!!!Pro 26:23 Burning lips and a wicked heart are like a potsherd covered with silver dross. Eze 22:18 Son of man, the house of Israel is to me become dross: all they are brass, and tin, and iron, and lead, in the midst of the furnace; they are even the dross of silver. What were these people?????Eze 22:27 Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain. Eze 22:28 And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing vanity, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken. Eze 22:29 The people of the land have used oppression, and exercised robbery, and have vexed the poor and needy: yea, they have oppressed the stranger wrongfulIsa 1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. Isa 1:21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers. Isa 1:22 Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water: Isa 1:23 Thy princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them. Isa 1:25 And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin:
    You are right. Judgment is not punishment. If you actually study the word and put things in the right context. You will find that after judgment, and the dross removed, those people were not around for any punishment. To say a believe today has dross, is calling them a witch or even worse. All of mans works shall be tried, and the things they have done on earth. did they do the will of God, or do their own thing? It shall be tried by fire, and if they did their own thing the works shall be burnt up. This event occurs at the end.1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. There are crowns and rewards to be had, this fire judges the Whole mans foundation. (His life) Because Jesus is still his Lord he will still escape through the fire, and no reward. Those that had the dross......... not so good for them.Deu 4:24 For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God. Deu 4:25 When thou shalt beget children, and children's children, and ye shall have remained long in the land, and shall corrupt yourselves, and make a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, and shall do evil in the sight of the LORD thy God, to provoke him to anger: Don't apply this refiner fire, dross, whatever doctrine to the Children of God that love God. God is not using the tools of Hell, to teach his children, but gave us teachers, and pastors that we all com form to the image of his son. His Word is more than powerful enough to teach us, He don't have to resort to a broken leg. It's just mans excuse for not having faith, and blaming God for misfortune.Jesus Is Lord
     
  16. Benoni

    Benoni New Member

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    Problem with hell it is not in the original language of the Bible but comes from a pagan angle saxon word meaning to bury; to day if you go to England you can "hel" you're potatoes.
     
  17. Brother Mike

    Brother Mike New Member

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    You wanted me to be serious, So I gave a serious response back, and all I get is that there is no HELL!!!Thats all I get!!!!sigh............I'll go hel sum potatoes.Jesus is Lord
     
  18. Benoni

    Benoni New Member

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    Fire is a tool of God not Satan, or you're fictitious hell. Look it us it is an Angel Saxon word not Greek or Hebrew, for that reason Hell is not part of the equation; yes there is are words in scripture such as Gehenna, Hade or Shiloh as well as Tartarus but they are a far cry from what religious Babylon teaches; eternal hell which denies every attribute of God. They make wisdom foolishness, turn eternal love into exasperated hate, make omnipotence helplessness, and make the justice of God the grossest injustice in the universe. I do not believe it because it is contrary to the nature of God. It is contrary to the love of God. It is contrary to the justice of God. It is contrary to the power of God. It is contrary to the Word of God and it puts God in the ridiculous position of being the almighty King of kings and Lord of lords yet having dominion a vast pocket of hate and resistance that even He cannot overcome. Further than this it makes the mighty sacrifice of Christ that was made for all the world to be almost impotent in its power and scope. Besides the wicked will be punished (pruned) in the Lake of Divine Purging; but not forever (God has other plans for them).[quote name='Brother Mike;72316]You wanted me to be serious' date=' So I gave a serious response back, and all I get is that there is no HELL!!!Thats all I get!!!!sigh............I'll go hel sum potatoes.Jesus is Lord[/QUOTE']
     
  19. walker starrfta99

    walker starrfta99 New Member

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    As a Christian I have no fear. GOD is love. When JESUS ascended to heaven the comforter which is the Holy Spirit was sent to us. Not to inflict harm but to guide love comfort and protect us as Christians. I wasbaptised by the Holy Spirit in July of this year. Praise GOD. Thank you JESUS,Amen.
     
  20. walker starrfta99

    walker starrfta99 New Member

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    Comfort and strength is tobee found in the love of GOD.
     
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