God's Gift of Tongues Not for Private Use

[Jim B]

Before or after you spell, pride and hubris? It seems to me you boast overmuch and think others are jealous.
Is that a gift?

Are you asking if your criticism of me is a gift? It's not. Since it has no relevance I just ignore it.

 

[Lambano]

I hope everyone can agree that as far as tongues used in personal, private prayer, the following verse applies:

21 So Peter, upon seeing him, says to Jesus, “Lord, and what about this man?” 22 Jesus says to him, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!” (John 21:21-22)

 

[Abigail]

Are you asking if your criticism of me is a gift? It's not. Since it has no relevance I just ignore it.

You very obviously didn't ignore it. You know what I asked.

I asked if your arrogance and hubris is a gift. Because you demonstrate you are very proud of yourself and boast of your so called gift while showing no respect for the Christian members to whom you boast.

Maybe you're not gifted. Maybe you're just mean. And proud of that.

 

[Jim B]

I hope everyone can agree that as far as tongues used in personal, private prayer, the following verse applies:

21 So Peter, upon seeing him, says to Jesus, “Lord, and what about this man?” 22 Jesus says to him, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!” (John 21:21-22)

How does that apply?

P.S. Your "signature" is "“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” So, according to you and Margaret Mead, a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens is equal to God?

 

[Jim B]

You very obviously didn't ignore it. You know what I asked.

I asked if your arrogance and hubris is a gift. Because you demonstrate you are very proud of yourself and boast of your so called gift while showing no respect for the Christian members to whom you boast.

Maybe you're not gifted. Maybe you're just mean. And proud of that.

And maybe I am gifted and you don't understand what that means. I'm not mean; that is your (mis)interpretation.

 

[Lambano]

How does that apply?

That means if you or anyone else has a personal prayer language, that's no business of mine. That's between you and God. Nobody has any business criticizing another brother or sister about what's between them and God. Peace?

 

[Jim B]

That means if you or anyone else has a personal prayer language, that's no business of mine. That's between you and God. Nobody has any business criticizing another brother or sister about what's between them and God. Peace?

Peace.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I am saying you are not rightly dividing the word of truth because Paul set the precedent for what tongues are for in 1 Corinthians 12th chapter and it cannot be for private use as you all seem to think in between the lines in chapter 14..

1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal:

The gifts are to profit the assembly, not individual.

11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many.

There is only one drink of the One Spirit that we all have been baptized by for why no other baptism with the Holy Ghost is needed to get any gift of the Spirit, let alone tongues.

19 And if they were all one member, where were the body? 20 But now are they many members, yet but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.

To say tongues are for private use is a believer telling all the members of the body that you do not need them as you can use tongues for private use for so many benefits that it needs no interpretation & yet Paul prayed that someone would interpret that tongue in the assembly so he would understand it to actually benefit from that tongue.

But if you do not want to believe that, but believe that tongue and that phenomenon by how you got that tongue to be of God, I'll just pray for you.

Well I always appreciate prayers so thank you!

But as for Paul:

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

Here it is plain as day in chapter 14. He says if He prays in the Spirit his spirit PRAY, but his understanding is unfruitful.

Why you reject that is beyond me. But thanks for the prayers.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Tongues for private use has bene gained by another calling and thus another gospel when saved believers seek after another baptism with the "holy Ghost" with evidence of tongues or by that sign of tongues as that calling used to be known by.

This is apostasy; this is the falling away from the faith prophesied; 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 & 2 Corinthians 13:5 & 1 Timothy 4:1 & Isaiah 8:19

Well praying in tongues and "another baptism" are two separate issues. One is biblical , the other is not.

 

[amadeus]

No maam, we do not. We believe it is satanic, and there is no longer a need for it, as the Bible is complete, and available to most everyone on earth.

The written Bible may indeed be complete, but the Word of God is Not complete within every believer. If it were, we would not, I believe, have dozens, or hundreds, or even thousands of denominations based the same or similar Bibles and yet opposed to each other on many points of doctrine, supposedly based on those Bibles. Even in a single denomination or assembly it would, I believe, be a rare thing to find two people without some differences in what they know and what they believe with regard to God and the things of God.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Pagan glossolalia was before Pentecost and for sinners to repent in coming to Christ & the church from that is why God's gift of tongues cannot also be that

Well Gods gift of tongues is not pagan glossolalia, but godly glossolalia! It is used for a different purpose than the great counterfeit used his fake tongues.

 

[amadeus]

Well Gods gift of tongues is not pagan glossolalia, but godly glossolalia! It is used for a different purpose than the great counterfeit used his fake tongues.

And who among us understands all of God's purposes perfectly or completely?

 

[Abigail]

And maybe I am gifted and you don't understand what that means. I'm not mean; that is your (mis)interpretation.

 

[Lambano]

P.S. Your "signature" is "“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” So, according to you and Margaret Mead, a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens is equal to God?

I think you meant to address that to @Abigail.

 

[Abigail]

I think you meant to address that to @Abigail.

I think they meant that to distract from the questions I've put to them and that they avoid. Most people understand the MM quote and that she was Christian.

 

[Robert Gwin]

The written Bible may indeed be complete, but the Word of God is Not complete within every believer. If it were, we would not, I believe, have dozens, or hundreds, or even thousands of denominations based the same or similar Bibles and yet opposed to each other on many points of doctrine, supposedly based on those Bibles. Even in a single denomination or assembly it would, I believe, be a rare thing to find two people without some differences in what they know and what they believe with regard to God and the things of God.

It is sometimes kind of difficult to understand that logically Amad, you discuss a simple verse, to give an example Jn 8:58 extremely easy to understand, Jesus in answer to a question said he existed before Abraham, yet many people say he is claiming to be God. It is easy to see why the division started, and how it could become so extensive over 2k yrs, 2 Tim 4:3; Acts 20:29,30. But one would still wonder why people understand it so differently since it is so simple, but the answer was given by Jesus sir: (Matthew 13:11-15) . . .“To you it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the Kingdom of the heavens, but to them it is not granted. . . they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, nor do they get the sense of it. 14 And the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled in their case. It says: ‘You will indeed hear but by no means get the sense of it, and you will indeed look but by no means see. 15 For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes, so that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back and I heal them.’
And 2 Cor 4:4 gives another reason, the truth is it is the heart as we both know.

 

[amadeus]

It is sometimes kind of difficult to understand that logically Amad,

People use logic in many things but when it comes to the scripture even regular Bible readers won't easily change. Some will never change in spite of how the scripture may read. That is very often the way of men. Perhaps they want to be like our unchangeable God already, not realizing that they must change in order to do that.

you discuss a simple verse, to give an example Jn 8:58 extremely easy to understand, Jesus in answer to a question said he existed before Abraham, yet many people say he is claiming to be God.

I really can see it both ways although I lean toward one. I rarely get into the details anymore unless I have good cause. What is good cause? No, do not answer that.

It is easy to see why the division started, and how it could become so extensive over 2k yrs, 2 Tim 4:3; Acts 20:29,30. But one would still wonder why people understand it so differently since it is so simple, but the answer was given by Jesus sir: (Matthew 13:11-15) . . .“To you it is granted to understand the sacred secrets of the Kingdom of the heavens, but to them it is not granted. . . they look in vain, and hearing, they hear in vain, nor do they get the sense of it. 14 And the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled in their case. It says: ‘You will indeed hear but by no means get the sense of it, and you will indeed look but by no means see. 15 For the heart of this people has grown unreceptive, and with their ears they have heard without response, and they have shut their eyes, so that they might never see with their eyes and hear with their ears and get the sense of it with their hearts and turn back and I heal them.’

What does it mean to really love the truth? Can a person love the truth without knowing it perfectly? I love my wife, but after nearly 50 years she still surprises me at times. We must love the truth even though we may still be, and probably are, seeing it as if through darkened glass. So then how well and completely do we love God and His Truth?

And 2 Cor 4:4 gives another reason, the truth is it is the heart as we both know.

Yes, it is inside of our hearts that God is looking. What does He see? Much more than we do... even of ourselves.

 

[Jim B]

I hope everyone can agree that as far as tongues used in personal, private prayer, the following verse applies:

21 So Peter, upon seeing him, says to Jesus, “Lord, and what about this man?” 22 Jesus says to him, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!” (John 21:21-22)

How does that apply?

 

[Robert Gwin]

People use logic in many things but when it comes to the scripture even regular Bible readers won't easily change. Some will never change in spite of how the scripture may read. That is very often the way of men. Perhaps they want to be like our unchangeable God already, not realizing that they must change in order to do that.

I really can see it both ways although I lean toward one. I rarely get into the details anymore unless I have good cause. What is good cause? No, do not answer that.

What does it mean to really love the truth? Can a person love the truth without knowing it perfectly? I love my wife, but after nearly 50 years she still surprises me at times. We must love the truth even though we may still be, and probably are, seeing it as if through darkened glass. So then how well and completely do we love God and His Truth?

Yes, it is inside of our hearts that God is looking. What does He see? Much more than we do... even of ourselves.

There is no one of us Christians that have the absolute truth Amad, not one. We will however prior to satans release at the end of his millennial binding.

Since you stated you can see Jn 8:58 both ways, and since it cannot be true both ways, explain to me how you can see Jesus saying that to mean he is God?

 

[amadeus]

There is no one of us Christians that have the absolute truth Amad, not one. We will however prior to satans release at the end of his millennial binding.

Since you stated you can see Jn 8:58 both ways, and since it cannot be true both ways, explain to me how you can see Jesus saying that to mean he is God?

Seeing it both ways does not mean I believe it both ways. I mean I can understand why people believe as they do even it may differ from what I believe:

"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." John 8:58

What I see is not just the one verse but my own view from reading and studying all of my Bible and from talking with God. When I came to God in the UPC in 1976, they taught me to read my Bible. A central doctrine for them was that there was only one God and Jesus was his name. No Trinity! I went along with that as I knew no different. They of course showed me the Bible verses supporting their belief. [My Trinitarian background was Catholic but there was no Bible for me in that.]

I guess during the years beginning in 1987, when for the last time I left the UPC, I went up and down and all over the place with my reading and with what I heard across pulpits. In the late 1990's I joined an Internet Christian forum and began hearing a greater variety of ideas on the subject than ever before:

1) Jesus alone is God; or
2) Jesus is one part of a three in one God; or
3) Jesus is only a special human being; or
4) Jesus is fully man and fully God; or
5) Jesus is a lesser God.

Often each individual or group believing one of those would have a whole set of scriptures ready to support their position. I listened and I looked at their arguments and I studied the scriptures independently of their words and I talked to God.

I see a type or shadow of Jesus in Joseph under Pharaoh in Egypt as per this verse:

"Thou shalt be over my house, and according unto thy word shall all my people be ruled: only in the throne will I be greater than thou." Gen 41:40

And then...

"Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." John 14:14

"Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." I Cor 15:24-28

"Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church," Eph 1:20-22

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings." Heb 2:9-10

From the Genesis verse do you see what I see? If not, that is between you and God, is it not?