God's Law of Love

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Raeneske

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Matthew 22:36-40 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

God's great law of love is summed up into two great commandments. The first is "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." And the next is, "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." One these two great commandments hangs all the law and the prophets.

Brethren and sisters, what is love? The Bible says:

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

God is love. Therefore the atrributes of God are the atrributes of love. To truly love God correctly, and our neighbors correctly, we have to go to the Source of love. We must be taught, and guided on how to love. Man has formed his own opinions on what constitutes loves, and it has caused the loss and death of billions of souls. We can look at the varied religions, and the varied cultures, but none know love like those who know the God who is love Himself. I am convinced, that nothing prompts the heart of God other than love. Absolutely nothing.

In the Word of God, we are taught how to love. First, our love for God is foremost. What is the love of God?

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

The love of God is to keep His commandments, and that His commandments are not grievous. Those who love God will not find it a burden to keep His law, for they are obedient out of the love that is found to dwell in their hearts for Him.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

If you love God, keep His commandments. It is interesting, that in dealing with our love for God, Jesus quotes out of the law. He says, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." Where in the law, do we find this same quote almost verbatim? In the very second commandment.

Exodus 20:4-6 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

God's merciful character is shown in the law, that He will have mercy upon those that love Him and keep His commandments. And in those 10 Commandments we can find what true love is. We can find the attributes of God. For example, His disgust for iniquity (lawlessness by definition) is also shown in the law. The goodness of God, and the severity of God, are thereby shown by the law. The Law of God is perfect, converting the soul.

Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

The 10 Commandments display the attributes of perfect love. Even our love for our neighbor is given in the law.

Romans 13:8-10 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Paul quotes five of the six commandments that deal directly with our love for each other. And these commandments, and the remaining, sum up to loving our neighbor as ourselves. Love does not work ill, or harm, his neighbor. Therefore, what is love? Love is the fulfilling of the law. If you love, you have fulfilled the requirements of the law. What if some claim to love though, but do those things which the law condemns? Say for example, we claim to love a friend, neighbor, or spouse, but we lie to them? Is this love? The Bible says love works no ill towards his neighbor. Therefore, if you are going to lie to your neighbor, then you do not really love them, no matter what you say. See, it's always good to check if you are within the demands of God, to see if you really love your neighbor or not. Is it love, to be filled with envy and are covetous of a neighbor's goods? No, no, this is not love either.

The carnal man cannot see past the letter of the law. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

When the law says, thou shalt not commit adultery, man may think this means only outwardly. This shows the lack of understanding on man's part. For what does 1 Corinthians 13 say, when speaking of love?

1 Corinthians 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

Love does not think evil. If adultery is evil, will man think about committing adultery? No, he will not. When the law says "Thou shalt not commit adultery" is means it. Do not commit adultery ... at all! Do not commit it outwardly, do not commit it in your mind, do not commit it in your spirit, do not commit it in your heart. Do not commit adultery, literally, do not. These are things the natural man lacks understanding of. But what does Paul say about the keeping of the law in letter, vs the spirit?

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

How do we keep the law now? In the newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. So then, in like obedience as he commanded, what does Paul do? Serve it only in the letter, or serve it in the newness of spirit?

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

With the mind, he serves the law of God. When it says do not commit adultery, Paul knows it means not outwardly, not in his heart, not spiritually, and not in his mind, thus serving the law in the newness of spirit.

Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Isaiah 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

God's Holy Law of Love, His Ten Commandments. What is love? God is love. How do I know when I love God? When I keep His commandments, and they are not grievous. How do I know when I love my neighbor? When I keep His (God's) commandments. What is love then? Love is the keeping of the commandments of God. Love is literally defined, outwardly, spiritually, physically, and mentally in His Holy Law.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The Law is spiritual. Now, if God's law is love, then the attributes of God are seen in the law. Then each and every single precept shows us what love is. Even one precept, which man's spiritual eyesight needs to be opened.

Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Some can see nothing but a grievous burden when reading this commandment. And rightfully so, when the pictures of God's Sabbath are painted in the way the Pharisees kept it. What you see are wretched and hateful depictions of the Sabbath. Those pictures painted are grievous, and are not the requirements which God meant when He spake what He said. The Sabbath was intended to be the best day of the week, not the worst. Yes, there are indeed restrictions laid upon the Sabbath, but these restrictions are for the benefit of mankind. After all, for whom was the Sabbath made for?

Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Who was the Sabbath made for? For us! No, not for us to take and do whatsoever gains, and pursuits we so choose and please. But restrictions were placed upon the day for your benefit, and for your overall joy and happiness. The Sabbath Day is not a day in which we choose to labour and advance our worldly interests. It honestly would ruin the Sabbath Day that God set apart especially for you. The Sabbath indeed does have to do with our love for God, but a love of it, focuses on His love for us. What a better day than the Sabbath, than to experience God's beautiful creation out in the world, of all those things He created for our benefit, for use, for food? And what better day, to put down all our worldly labors, and come and rest together, with He who rested upon the very same day, almost 6000 years ago? This is God's rest. This is God's Sabbath, given to man, as a gift.

On this day we meet together with those of like minded faith, with those family members of like minded faith, and friends, to give praise and glory unto God. On this day, do we hear the tender appeals of God's heart of love, to repent. On this day, do we hear Him pleading with us, choose this path, choose the right way, choose my Son's righteousness. And what better day to spend time with God, than the day that He picked to spend with us? Made for us, given to us, blessed and sanctified for us. What a wonderful day of love indeed, and no better day do we enjoy the love of God.

Psalms 16:11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

Where is the fullness of joy found? In God's presence. Those who gather on the Sabbath, to keep the day holy, and view the wonderful works of creation, can find no greater joy than this. In God's presence is the fullness of joy. Then will we joy in Him, when we keep His Sabbath the way He commanded it to be kept. No crazy astringent rules, but simply all love, falling in harmony with the commandments of God. And man cannot find the greatest delight in God, than when He finds it when He keeps God's Sabbath, and that correctly.

Isaiah 58:13-14 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: 14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

When will we delight ourselves in the Lord? When we keep His Sabbath. When we keep His Sabbath, not doing our own ways, nor finding our own pleasures, nor speaking our own words. When we keep the Sabbath not just outwardly, but in the heart. When we refrain from worldly labours and pursuits, when we accept the Sabbath Gift as it is, then we delight ourselves in God.

It's all about love. Every aspect of God's Holy Law is about love. The first three, the last six, and even this commandment, #4, the Sabbath, is all about love. Love Him first. Reverence Him. Serve Him first. Joy in His presence on Sabbath, joy in His holiness, His lovely works, bask in His wonderful creation, given for us all, and made for us all. Take in, and enjoy the love of God, for God is love.

1 John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
 

justaname

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Why would you start with the book of 1 John to state your premise then leave it? If John is the author of the premise you are using proper exegesis commands you continue with his definition.


This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.


And here we have the definition of love...1 Corinthians 13

4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,
5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered,
6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth;
7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails;
 

Barrd

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Jul 27, 2015
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DGenesis1:29 said:
Matthew 22:36-40 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

God's great law of love is summed up into two great commandments. The first is "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." And the next is, "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." One these two great commandments hangs all the law and the prophets.

Brethren and sisters, what is love? The Bible says:

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

God is love. Therefore the atrributes of God are the atrributes of love. To truly love God correctly, and our neighbors correctly, we have to go to the Source of love. We must be taught, and guided on how to love. Man has formed his own opinions on what constitutes loves, and it has caused the loss and death of billions of souls. We can look at the varied religions, and the varied cultures, but none know love like those who know the God who is love Himself. I am convinced, that nothing prompts the heart of God other than love. Absolutely nothing.

In the Word of God, we are taught how to love. First, our love for God is foremost. What is the love of God?

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

The love of God is to keep His commandments, and that His commandments are not grievous. Those who love God will not find it a burden to keep His law, for they are obedient out of the love that is found to dwell in their hearts for Him.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

If you love God, keep His commandments. It is interesting, that in dealing with our love for God, Jesus quotes out of the law. He says, "If ye love me, keep my commandments." Where in the law, do we find this same quote almost verbatim? In the very second commandment.

Exodus 20:4-6 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

God's merciful character is shown in the law, that He will have mercy upon those that love Him and keep His commandments. And in those 10 Commandments we can find what true love is. We can find the attributes of God. For example, His disgust for iniquity (lawlessness by definition) is also shown in the law. The goodness of God, and the severity of God, are thereby shown by the law. The Law of God is perfect, converting the soul.

Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

The 10 Commandments display the attributes of perfect love. Even our love for our neighbor is given in the law.

Romans 13:8-10 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Paul quotes five of the six commandments that deal directly with our love for each other. And these commandments, and the remaining, sum up to loving our neighbor as ourselves. Love does not work ill, or harm, his neighbor. Therefore, what is love? Love is the fulfilling of the law. If you love, you have fulfilled the requirements of the law. What if some claim to love though, but do those things which the law condemns? Say for example, we claim to love a friend, neighbor, or spouse, but we lie to them? Is this love? The Bible says love works no ill towards his neighbor. Therefore, if you are going to lie to your neighbor, then you do not really love them, no matter what you say. See, it's always good to check if you are within the demands of God, to see if you really love your neighbor or not. Is it love, to be filled with envy and are covetous of a neighbor's goods? No, no, this is not love either.

The carnal man cannot see past the letter of the law. Spiritual things are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

When the law says, thou shalt not commit adultery, man may think this means only outwardly. This shows the lack of understanding on man's part. For what does 1 Corinthians 13 say, when speaking of love?

1 Corinthians 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

Love does not think evil. If adultery is evil, will man think about committing adultery? No, he will not. When the law says "Thou shalt not commit adultery" is means it. Do not commit adultery ... at all! Do not commit it outwardly, do not commit it in your mind, do not commit it in your spirit, do not commit it in your heart. Do not commit adultery, literally, do not. These are things the natural man lacks understanding of. But what does Paul say about the keeping of the law in letter, vs the spirit?

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

How do we keep the law now? In the newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. So then, in like obedience as he commanded, what does Paul do? Serve it only in the letter, or serve it in the newness of spirit?

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

With the mind, he serves the law of God. When it says do not commit adultery, Paul knows it means not outwardly, not in his heart, not spiritually, and not in his mind, thus serving the law in the newness of spirit.

Romans 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Isaiah 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

God's Holy Law of Love, His Ten Commandments. What is love? God is love. How do I know when I love God? When I keep His commandments, and they are not grievous. How do I know when I love my neighbor? When I keep His (God's) commandments. What is love then? Love is the keeping of the commandments of God. Love is literally defined, outwardly, spiritually, physically, and mentally in His Holy Law.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

The Law is spiritual. Now, if God's law is love, then the attributes of God are seen in the law. Then each and every single precept shows us what love is. Even one precept, which man's spiritual eyesight needs to be opened.

Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Some can see nothing but a grievous burden when reading this commandment. And rightfully so, when the pictures of God's Sabbath are painted in the way the Pharisees kept it. What you see are wretched and hateful depictions of the Sabbath. Those pictures painted are grievous, and are not the requirements which God meant when He spake what He said. The Sabbath was intended to be the best day of the week, not the worst. Yes, there are indeed restrictions laid upon the Sabbath, but these restrictions are for the benefit of mankind. After all, for whom was the Sabbath made for?

Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Who was the Sabbath made for? For us! No, not for us to take and do whatsoever gains, and pursuits we so choose and please. But restrictions were placed upon the day for your benefit, and for your overall joy and happiness. The Sabbath Day is not a day in which we choose to labour and advance our worldly interests. It honestly would ruin the Sabbath Day that God set apart especially for you. The Sabbath indeed does have to do with our love for God, but a love of it, focuses on His love for us. What a better day than the Sabbath, than to experience God's beautiful creation out in the world, of all those things He created for our benefit, for use, for food? And what better day, to put down all our worldly labors, and come and rest together, with He who rested upon the very same day, almost 6000 years ago? This is God's rest. This is God's Sabbath, given to man, as a gift.

On this day we meet together with those of like minded faith, with those family members of like minded faith, and friends, to give praise and glory unto God. On this day, do we hear the tender appeals of God's heart of love, to repent. On this day, do we hear Him pleading with us, choose this path, choose the right way, choose my Son's righteousness. And what better day to spend time with God, than the day that He picked to spend with us? Made for us, given to us, blessed and sanctified for us. What a wonderful day of love indeed, and no better day do we enjoy the love of God.

Psalms 16:11 Thou wilt shew me the path of life: in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore.

Where is the fullness of joy found? In God's presence. Those who gather on the Sabbath, to keep the day holy, and view the wonderful works of creation, can find no greater joy than this. In God's presence is the fullness of joy. Then will we joy in Him, when we keep His Sabbath the way He commanded it to be kept. No crazy astringent rules, but simply all love, falling in harmony with the commandments of God. And man cannot find the greatest delight in God, than when He finds it when He keeps God's Sabbath, and that correctly.

Isaiah 58:13-14 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: 14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

When will we delight ourselves in the Lord? When we keep His Sabbath. When we keep His Sabbath, not doing our own ways, nor finding our own pleasures, nor speaking our own words. When we keep the Sabbath not just outwardly, but in the heart. When we refrain from worldly labours and pursuits, when we accept the Sabbath Gift as it is, then we delight ourselves in God.

It's all about love. Every aspect of God's Holy Law is about love. The first three, the last six, and even this commandment, #4, the Sabbath, is all about love. Love Him first. Reverence Him. Serve Him first. Joy in His presence on Sabbath, joy in His holiness, His lovely works, bask in His wonderful creation, given for us all, and made for us all. Take in, and enjoy the love of God, for God is love.

1 John 4:16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
I totally agree with this post.
And isn't it interesting that most of the world considers Saturday to be THE day for all the best events....the big game, the family picnic, the prom, the big party, the trip to the beach....
The entire world honors the Lord's Sabbath, whether it would or no....
 

Raeneske

New Member
Sep 18, 2012
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justaname said:
Why would you start with the book of 1 John to state your premise then leave it? If John is the author of the premise you are using proper exegesis commands you continue with his definition.


This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.


And here we have the definition of love...1 Corinthians 13

4 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant,
5 does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered,
6 does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth;
7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.
8 Love never fails;
Yes, 1 Corinthians 13 is indeed what love is. But what you are reading is the Spirit behind the Law. You look at God's Law of love, through the Spirit, which is laid out in 1 Corinthians 13. For example, love does not rejoice in iniquity, which by definition, is lawlessness.

1 Corinthians 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

From G94; (legal) injustice (properly the quality, by implication the act); moral wrongfulness (of charater, life or act): - iniquity, unjust, unrighteousness, wrong.

Therefore, we cannot get pleasure out of breaking the law, or lawlessness of others. That is not love. Love also does not think any evil.

1 Corinthians 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

Therefore, you will not think of any evil either. You will not think of committing adultery, or worshipping idols in your mind, and you will not covet your neighbor's goods. You will not be easily provoked by your brethren into hating them. You will be patient with them, as God is patient, and merciful, as is found in 1st Corinthians 13 and His Holy Law.

1 Corinthians 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

Exodus 20:4-6 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Remember when the Bible says the veil is over the eyes of those who read the Old Testament, which veil is taken away in Christ Jesus?

2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

When we read the Old Testament now, we understand what God's law means when it says, do not commit adultery. We know that it means, do not commit adultery, at all. Do not commit it in reality, do not commit it in your spirit, in your heart, or in your mind. The Law in the Old Testament is spiritual. But how can we understand the Spiritual Law without our spiritual eyesight? The Spirit gives us that eyesight. And the Spirit hath said "love rejoiceth not in iniquity" and "thinketh no evil". It has said many other things too.

I am sure we are in agreement when looking at the other nine commandments, that every single commandment in there, when obeyed, in mind and in heart, proves your love for God, and your love for mankind. Yet there is one more point, which this world hath not seen love in. That point is the Sabbath, which manifests our love for God, and God's love for us in creating us, and this beautiful world for us, and giving us the Sabbath Day to spend with Him every single week. This is love, keeping His commandments, keeping them in the Spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

It would be a contradiction of sound wisdom, and a sound mind, by declaring that we don't have to literally keep the Sabbath, yet every other point we would literally keep. Either we remember that the Seventh Day is the Sabbath, and keep it Holy, as well as not worshipping idols literally, or we deny that the Sabbath is to be literally kept, along with all the other points of love. But what is true love? What is true love? Obedience to God's commandments. And it is impossible to love, without keeping those commandments. The Law defines evil for you. Love does not think evil, therefore we will not think of committing adultery. And so it is written, the saints are those....

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
 

Barrd

His Humble Servant
Jul 27, 2015
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...following a Jewish carpenter...
DGenesis1:29 said:
Yes, 1 Corinthians 13 is indeed what love is. But what you are reading is the Spirit behind the Law. You look at God's Law of love, through the Spirit, which is laid out in 1 Corinthians 13. For example, love does not rejoice in iniquity, which by definition, is lawlessness.

1 Corinthians 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

From G94; (legal) injustice (properly the quality, by implication the act); moral wrongfulness (of charater, life or act): - iniquity, unjust, unrighteousness, wrong.

Therefore, we cannot get pleasure out of breaking the law, or lawlessness of others. That is not love. Love also does not think any evil.

1 Corinthians 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

Therefore, you will not think of any evil either. You will not think of committing adultery, or worshipping idols in your mind, and you will not covet your neighbor's goods. You will not be easily provoked by your brethren into hating them. You will be patient with them, as God is patient, and merciful, as is found in 1st Corinthians 13 and His Holy Law.

1 Corinthians 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

Exodus 20:4-6 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Remember when the Bible says the veil is over the eyes of those who read the Old Testament, which veil is taken away in Christ Jesus?

2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

When we read the Old Testament now, we understand what God's law means when it says, do not commit adultery. We know that it means, do not commit adultery, at all. Do not commit it in reality, do not commit it in your spirit, in your heart, or in your mind. The Law in the Old Testament is spiritual. But how can we understand the Spiritual Law without our spiritual eyesight? The Spirit gives us that eyesight. And the Spirit hath said "love rejoiceth not in iniquity" and "thinketh no evil". It has said many other things too.

I am sure we are in agreement when looking at the other nine commandments, that every single commandment in there, when obeyed, in mind and in heart, proves your love for God, and your love for mankind. Yet there is one more point, which this world hath not seen love in. That point is the Sabbath, which manifests our love for God, and God's love for us in creating us, and this beautiful world for us, and giving us the Sabbath Day to spend with Him every single week. This is love, keeping His commandments, keeping them in the Spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

It would be a contradiction of sound wisdom, and a sound mind, by declaring that we don't have to literally keep the Sabbath, yet every other point we would literally keep. Either we remember that the Seventh Day is the Sabbath, and keep it Holy, as well as not worshipping idols literally, or we deny that the Sabbath is to be literally kept, along with all the other points of love. But what is true love? What is true love? Obedience to God's commandments. And it is impossible to love, without keeping those commandments. The Law defines evil for you. Love does not think evil, therefore we will not think of committing adultery. And so it is written, the saints are those....

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
And all of God's children say:
AMEN.
 

justaname

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DGenesis1:29 said:
Yes, 1 Corinthians 13 is indeed what love is. But what you are reading is the Spirit behind the Law. You look at God's Law of love, through the Spirit, which is laid out in 1 Corinthians 13. For example, love does not rejoice in iniquity, which by definition, is lawlessness.

1 Corinthians 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

From G94; (legal) injustice (properly the quality, by implication the act); moral wrongfulness (of charater, life or act): - iniquity, unjust, unrighteousness, wrong.

Therefore, we cannot get pleasure out of breaking the law, or lawlessness of others. That is not love. Love also does not think any evil.

1 Corinthians 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

Therefore, you will not think of any evil either. You will not think of committing adultery, or worshipping idols in your mind, and you will not covet your neighbor's goods. You will not be easily provoked by your brethren into hating them. You will be patient with them, as God is patient, and merciful, as is found in 1st Corinthians 13 and His Holy Law.

1 Corinthians 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

Exodus 20:4-6 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Remember when the Bible says the veil is over the eyes of those who read the Old Testament, which veil is taken away in Christ Jesus?

2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

When we read the Old Testament now, we understand what God's law means when it says, do not commit adultery. We know that it means, do not commit adultery, at all. Do not commit it in reality, do not commit it in your spirit, in your heart, or in your mind. The Law in the Old Testament is spiritual. But how can we understand the Spiritual Law without our spiritual eyesight? The Spirit gives us that eyesight. And the Spirit hath said "love rejoiceth not in iniquity" and "thinketh no evil". It has said many other things too.

I am sure we are in agreement when looking at the other nine commandments, that every single commandment in there, when obeyed, in mind and in heart, proves your love for God, and your love for mankind. Yet there is one more point, which this world hath not seen love in. That point is the Sabbath, which manifests our love for God, and God's love for us in creating us, and this beautiful world for us, and giving us the Sabbath Day to spend with Him every single week. This is love, keeping His commandments, keeping them in the Spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

It would be a contradiction of sound wisdom, and a sound mind, by declaring that we don't have to literally keep the Sabbath, yet every other point we would literally keep. Either we remember that the Seventh Day is the Sabbath, and keep it Holy, as well as not worshipping idols literally, or we deny that the Sabbath is to be literally kept, along with all the other points of love. But what is true love? What is true love? Obedience to God's commandments. And it is impossible to love, without keeping those commandments. The Law defines evil for you. Love does not think evil, therefore we will not think of committing adultery. And so it is written, the saints are those....

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
How do you keep the Sabbath?

Is it the way ordained by God in His Holy Scriptures?
 

ATP

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1 Pet 1:23 NIV For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

1 John 3:9 NIV No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

2 John 1:2 NIV because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever:
 

Barrd

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justaname said:
How do you keep the Sabbath?

Is it the way ordained by God in His Holy Scriptures?
Justaname, why do you insist on trying to drag people back into the Old Covenant?
The Commandment as it came from the finger of God says that we are to do no work, nor our children, or our servants (or employees), or our animals, or even the stranger among us.
And Jesus did also clarify it, saying that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.
 

Barrd

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ATP said:
1 Pet 1:23 NIV For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

1 John 3:9 NIV No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God.

2 John 1:2 NIV because of the truth, which lives in us and will be with us forever:
That's the other thread, ATP.
I think you got a little confused....
 

ATP

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The Barrd said:
That's the other thread, ATP.
I think you got a little confused....
Oh, oops.

Just wanna make sure nobody's following the false doctrine of works salvation.

Carry on.
 

justaname

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The Barrd said:
Justaname, why do you insist on trying to drag people back into the Old Covenant?
The Commandment as it came from the finger of God says that we are to do no work, nor our children, or our servants (or employees), or our animals, or even the stranger among us.
And Jesus did also clarify it, saying that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.
This is not how the commandment came down by God's finger. This is false.

Was Jesus clarification written on stone?

I am not putting anyone under the old covenant...this post seems to be reflecting that though.

It seems hypocritical that you would say in order to love God properly you must keep the Shabbat, yet not the way He ordained in His Holy Torah.
 

Barrd

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justaname said:
This is not how the commandment came down by God's finger. This is false.

Was Jesus clarification written on stone?

I am not putting anyone under the old covenant...this post seems to be reflecting that though.

It seems hypocritical that you would say in order to love God properly you must keep the Shabbat, yet not the way He ordained in His Holy Torah.
Surely you know that there is a difference between the Ten Commandments, written by God, Himself on tablets of stone to indicate their permanence, and preserved within the Ark along with the pot of manna and Aaron's rod, and the law of Moses, written by Moses, upon a perishable scroll and set alongside the Ark, but not inside of it?
Surely you know Who Jesus is? He is God, Himself...the very same God Who created you....and the very same God Who wrote that law with His Own finger in the first place?

It seems hypocritical that you would claim to love God, and yet not make Him your Lord.

And what is worse, you teach other people to do the same. Are you aware that you've got a following? Oh, yes, Justaname....at least two users on this site are your disciples...parroting your "wisdom" all over the place.
By the way, Justaname...what is an antinomian? Your parrots do not know. Do you?
 

ATP

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The Barrd said:
It seems hypocritical that you would claim to love God, and yet not make Him your Lord.
Well, he does make Jesus his Lord, by adhering to the Grace of God Rom 6:14 NIV. You're almost there kiddo.
 

Barrd

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ATP said:
Well, he does make Jesus his Lord, by adhering to the Grace of God Rom 6:14 NIV. You're almost there kiddo.
I've been there for over fifty years, ATP
There's a bit more to making Jesus your Lord than simply saying so.
Do you not understand that a Lord is someone who must be obeyed?
You must actually follow Him...you must actually obey Him.
You must realize that, if you wander off the path, you can be lost, ATP.
 

justaname

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The Barrd said:
Surely you know that there is a difference between the Ten Commandments, written by God, Himself on tablets of stone to indicate their permanence, and preserved within the Ark along with the pot of manna and Aaron's rod, and the law of Moses, written by Moses, upon a perishable scroll and set alongside the Ark, but not inside of it?
Surely you know Who Jesus is? He is God, Himself...the very same God Who created you....and the very same God Who wrote that law with His Own finger in the first place?

It seems hypocritical that you would claim to love God, and yet not make Him your Lord.

And what is worse, you teach other people to do the same. Are you aware that you've got a following? Oh, yes, Justaname....at least two users on this site are your disciples...parroting your "wisdom" all over the place.
By the way, Justaname...what is an antinomian? Your parrots do not know. Do you?
Surely you know this is a false doctrine made up by men?

To be guilty of one point of the Law is to be guilty of the whole thing...

Why would you falsely accuse me of not making Jesus my Lord? You do know you are technically breaking forum rules here...


Antinomian: a person holding antinomian beliefs...

of or relating to the view that Christians are released by grace from the obligation of observing the moral law...


​Just to be sure here and before I am falsely accused again I said those who hold to the perseverance of the saints are not antinomians...

I have no idea weather or not these people you are referring to know the meaning behind the word. I would hope if they were using it they would though.
 

Raeneske

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justaname said:
How do you keep the Sabbath?

Is it the way ordained by God in His Holy Scriptures?
Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

It's amazing how context is just everything. There are some incredibly false interpretations on what entails Sabbath keeping. Some may deem it a breaking of the commandment if one got up and made their beds, and others, if they even left their house. There is a good deal of common sense, and sound reasoning that are just abandoned when it comes to the Sabbath commandment. This is what needs to be dispelled, in order to fully grasp what entails Sabbath keeping.

For example, upon the point of one leaving their house on the Sabbath, when we read what is said in context, we see:


Exodus 16:21-23 And they gathered it every morning, every man according to his eating: and when the sun waxed hot, it melted. 22 And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses. 23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

Exodus 16:29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

Do the Scriptures say anything about one being able to leave their houses on the Sabbath Day? It doesn't forbid that at all, but it forbade them to go out of their place, to gather food for the day, and for that, they were to stay in their place on the Sabbath. This is the incredbile point of reading things in context, and using common sense and sound reasoning. After all, Did Jesus abide in literally one place all of the Sabbath? No, of course not. Is it a sin to go out and have fellowship with your brethren upon the Sabbath Day? No, it is not. Therefore, "abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day" has to be viewed in context.

Exodus 35:1-3 And Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said unto them, These are the words which the LORD hath commanded, that ye should do them. 2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death. 3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.

Next, we have people declaring we cannot do things like start our cars, because that is kindling a fire, and is a violation upon the Sabbath. Time and place are to be considered when reading the Scriptures. We will see that even during the Sabbath, a fire was indeed kept burning.

Hebrews 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

Leviticus 4:8-10 And he shall take off from it all the fat of the bullock for the sin offering; the fat that covereth the inwards, and all the fat that is upon the inwards, 9 And the two kidneys, and the fat that is upon them, which is by the flanks, and the caul above the liver, with the kidneys, it shall he take away, 10 As it was taken off from the bullock of the sacrifice of peace offerings: and the priest shall burn them upon the altar of the burnt offering.

Leviticus 6:8-13 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 9 Command Aaron and his sons, saying, This is the law of the burnt offering: It is the burnt offering, because of the burning upon the altar all night unto the morning, and the fire of the altar shall be burning in it. 10 And the priest shall put on his linen garment, and his linen breeches shall he put upon his flesh, and take up the ashes which the fire hath consumed with the burnt offering on the altar, and he shall put them beside the altar. 11 And he shall put off his garments, and put on other garments, and carry forth the ashes without the camp unto a clean place. 12 And the fire upon the altar shall be burning in it; it shall not be put out: and the priest shall burn wood on it every morning, and lay the burnt offering in order upon it; and he shall burn thereon the fat of the peace offerings. 13 The fire shall ever be burning upon the altar; it shall never go out.

Through the service of the tabernacle, every single day, literally, a fire was kept burning. They burned the remains of the sin offering. Notice that the fire for the burnt offering was never to go out. The law forbade them to kindle a fire throughout their habitations, but did it forbid one to be kept going, that already was going? No. Hence, the day before the Sabbath is called the day of preparation. One prepares to keep the Sabbath holy. What kind of preparation is needed to kindle a fire in houses with wood?

1) Find wood (being in a desert, this must be doubtless harder than it would be for us, who may go to our backyards and find a tree. But even when the tree is found, what must we do?)
2) Chop the wood (this is tedious-labor all on itself)
3) Bring wood back (such is like carrying a burden into the house upon the Sabbath day, which is forbidden)
4) Store and prepare wood (if excess wood is chopped, we store the wood, and the other wood is prepared for the fire)
5) Burn wood (now the wood is ready, and the fire is ignited)

Do you notice something about food preparation and fire preparation? The act of going out, and "harvesting" food, or wood, was an act forbidden on the Sabbath. That, and all it's preparatory actions to start a fire, and to cook food, were forbidden on the Sabbath. It is all laborious labor, preparatory labour, that is to be taken care of on the Sabbath. But just like it would be no sin to warm food up upon the Sabbath Day, so too is no sin found in keeping warm on the Sabbath Day. But what does God desire of us? To be prepared.

If we are in the cold mountains, where it is -28 degrees, is it wrong for us to have a fire going through the Sabbath? Is it wrong for us to have our heaters on during the Sabbath? No, why? Because the Sabbath Day does not neglect or forget man's basic needs. Just be prepared. This is the same reason it's not wrong to eat on the Sabbath, or sleep on the Sabbath. There is not to be a neglect of basic human needs, or even basic hygiene and cleanliness. These are not things God has forbidden on His holy Sabbath. Would we say that to wash one's hand's on the Sabbath is a sin? Of course not. That's utterly ridiculous.

All the tedious, laborious labor that would generally be needed for one day, is to be prepared for the next. The furnace which needs wood, would need to have the wood near it, already prepared, to toss into the furnace, to keep the house warm. There is no sin involved in such actions.

What then does God want to be done on the Sabbath?


Isaiah 58:13-14 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: 14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

What does God forbid on the Sabbath? The making of our beds, or the work of sitting down and surfing the internet for bed sheets to purchase, to beautify our homes? He forbids us from doing our own works, our own pleasures(which are "works" in themselves). As the Scripture says, "honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words." Honour God. Refusing to fix our beds, or to fix our beds does not honour Him. Freezing to death because we refuse to turn on our heaters does not honour Him. It doesn't even make this day look good. Yet these are the kinds of thoughts and ideas that many have about the Sabbath Day. These types of thoughts are erroneous, and need to be removed from our thinking, if we are ever to consider the Sabbath to be a blessed and holy day. After all, did not God bless the seventh day? What blessing is there in freezing ourselves out, or in appearing to the place of worship as a messy individual?

Genesis 2:2-3 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

God blessed the seventh day, and He set it apart for a holy use (sanctify, defined below). Literally, the seventh day, blessed of God.

A primitive root; to be (causatively make, pronounce or observe as) clean (ceremonially or morally): - appoint, bid, consecrate, dedicate, defile, hallow, (be, keep) holy (-er, place), keep, prepare, proclaim, purify, sanctify (-ied one, self), X wholly.

What we see is God's forbiddance of prepatory work on the Sabbath. We see God forbid's work that is not necessary. He forbids our own works upon the Sabbath Day, even that work which is in itself not sacred, but allowed of the Christian. He does not forbid flicking a switch, which turns on a heater. He does not forbid turning a knob to warm up food. On a dark and stormy Sabbath Day, would we consider it sin to light lamps in the house (or electric lamps) and sit down and read our Bibles? Is the utter act of lighting a lamp sin? Of course not!

Take these principles, and think upon them. And when you begin to, you will begin to see the Sabbath is not a burden at all, but is literally the best day of the week. No work, no preparation, just bliss and happiness, and worship of the Creator God. The spiritual work never comes to an end, and thus Pastor's stand up and do the work they are called to do. Those who give talks give talks, and the whole church is blessed and edified. Fellowship at an evening meal with the church brethren, keeping the mind on high and holy things will take this mind out of this world. And this is exactly what God wants us to do. Dwell upon Him and His works. Keep the mind centered upon Him whom has our supremest affections, and our most devoted love.

Now, some may object upon this point, that we are forgetting something about the Sabbath.


Exodus 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

Some say that if we are not keeping the Sabbath properly, or we see one that does not keep the Sabbath, we ought to stone them. What we have to remember is that the breaking of an of God's moral law warrants death, for it is written:

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Therefore covetousness, lying, idolatry, taking the Lord's name in vain all warrant death. So, when death is attached to the breaking of God's moral law, be certain that justice will be executed upon the transgressor if they do not repent. As it is for not committing adultery, so it is for breaking the Sabbath. If you transgress the Law of God, it warrants death.

Leviticus 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

According to the knowledge I have been given, in America adultery used to be punishable by death. It seems that God's moral laws against mankind were always to be obeyed. Yet, who was to carry out this justice? Was it the transgressors friends? The transgressors enemies? Their parents? The spouse cheated on? None. The act was carried out by civil authorities. The act of putting someone to death has to be brought before the authorities. In other words, my Pastor, nor yours, can stone someone for breaking the Sabbath, or for committing adultery. Let us read on, and see more acts that were punishable by death in the Old Testament.

Leviticus 20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.

Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 20:15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.

All of these things are moral wrongs, which are punishable by death. The first is a violation of the fifth commandment, and the next two are violations of commandment seven about adultery. But what must be done with the violaters of the law? They must be brought before the civil authorities.

Now, I am a firm believer in separation of church & state, as Christ has said, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God things that are God's. But a moral wrong against mankind, is a moral wrong against mankind, and that we are to punish. However, we cannot force anyone to worship the God of creation. So, while in Jerusalem, because of their theocracy, transgression of commandments 1-4 was enforcable by law, we cannot do such a thing with the Christian Church. All wrongs done to the Creator will be avenged by Himself.


Romans 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

We of ourselves have no right to punish the wicked doer, who breaks God's Sabbath. None at all.

The way people try to deter someone from keeping the Sabbath, is by saying, you can't do this, or you can't do that. It's no wonder people view the Sabbath with such disdain, and view it as a burden. Yes, it is indeed a burden when I am told I cannot leave my house, and that if I have a fire going at all, I am sinning. It is indeed a burden if I cannot flick a light switch, or turn on a heater. It is indeed a burden when all common sense is thrown out the window. But Jesus shows the day was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a wonderful day, not the burden that the Pharisees made it out to be, and the views that many try to urge upon us as "true sabbath keeping".

As Jesus and His disciples went through those fields, the Pharisees showed their ridiculous regulations. The Pharisees (not God) forbade them to pluck the kernals and to eat them. Some might be ready to shout, but God said do not gather, and go not out of your place! Yet what those souls may be shouting are not even the same things. God demanded them to gather on the sixth day twice as much, and to prepare it for food, so that all that labour wouldn't have to be done on the Sabbath. What prepratory labour is there when I, walking through an apple orchard with my family, speaking to them of the goodness of God's creation, and exhorting them upon obedience, what sin is there when I pluck an apple and eat it? It would be sin if I went and purposely harvested the apple tree, and brought the apples back, and made apple pies with them. That indeed would be a violation of the Sabbath Day. But if I was walking though and orchard, and I plucked an apple to satisfy my hunger, there would be no sin.

What's actually quite keen, is that we see that the disciples were completely in harmony with even the OT law. Look at this:


Deuteronomy 23:24 When thou comest into thy neighbour's vineyard, then thou mayest eat grapes thy fill at thine own pleasure; but thou shalt not put any in thy vessel.

They were literally allowed to eat until their fill, they just weren't allowed to harvest their neighbor's food. Not on the Sabbath, and not on any day.

And yet, for the mother of all confusion on this topic. We know that the wages of sin is death, yet people will declare that that is the opposite for Christ. Some will declare He actually broke the Sabbath, thus making Him a sinner, but by their words, call Him guiltless. It makes for a horrible pathway to hell. To declare that the sinner is free to transgress God's Law. And, didn't Jesus come to earth to prove that it WAS possible to keep God's law? See, Satan would have it declared that God's law is impossible to be kept. And if Jesus couldn't even keep it, then it's impossible that anyone could keep God's law. And there would be no reason for Satan to be kicked out of heaven at all (which is the point he is trying to argue). If the law is impossible to be kept, and not even Jesus could keep it, then there is no reason for Satan to be kicked out of heaven. None. He only did what was inevitable for all beings in the universe if God's law is truly impossible to be kept. So, then, what grounds has God to kick Satan out of heaven? None. Which is what Satan is trying to argue. But Satan is wrong.

First of all, Jesus never sinned, and He came here and proved that God's law could be kept. He literally kept it all, and He gives us the strength to refrain our tongues when in trouble. When tempted to do evil, He gives us strength not to commit evil. So no, it is not as Satan would have it be, that God's law is impossible to be kept. God's law IS possible to be kept, and that through the strength of God, and not of ourselves. No one in heaven is right now transgressing that Holy Law. Not a single being in the entire universe is, except the fallen angels, and mankind.

God's law is possible to be kept, and that through the strength of God. Upon no point did Jesus fail in His mission. Yet the erroneous interpretations about Sabbath observance make Jesus a sinner, make the day a terrible burden, and put disdain in the heart for God's High and Holy Day. But the day is a blessing. We must begin to see the love in it though. And this we must do, through understanding who God is.


1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

He is love. And that infinite love has given us a grand and holy day to meet Him face to face, and be in His direct presence. Shall we say no? Or shall we honour Him, and keep the day holy with Him, and rejoice forevermore in His glorious works?

Isaiah 66:22-23 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
 

justaname

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DG 1:29,

I appreciate the way you keep the Shabbat! I believe you have a biblical perspective in your practice. Although it is not an ordinance commanded for the Christian, just as the Lord's supper is not an ordinance for the Jew, I appreciate your desire to observe it!



Shabbat Shalom!

In the love of Christ...
 

Barrd

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justaname said:
Surely you know this is a false doctrine made up by men?
I believe with all of my heart that OSAS is a false doctrine made up by men. The original first century church would not have recognized it. It came along with Calvinism...which is also false.

To be guilty of one point of the Law is to be guilty of the whole thing...
In that case, it would be best not to sin, wouldn't it? And if...make that when...we do sin, it would definitely be a good idea not to tarry, but to pray for forgiveness at once.

Why would you falsely accuse me of not making Jesus my Lord? You do know you are technically breaking forum rules here...
I apologize, Justaname.
When you call someone "Lord", you imply that he is your master....a "Lord" is someone who must be obeyed.
Now, if we defer in this way to human "Lords", how much more should we obey our Lord Jesus Christ?
Yet OSAS claims that such obedience is "works salvation".

Antinomian: a person holding antinomian beliefs...
of or relating to the view that Christians are released by grace from the obligation of observing the moral law...
Here is the dictionary definition:

antinomian

noun an·ti·no·mi·an \ˌan-ti-ˈnō-mē-ən\


Definition of ANTINOMIAN

1
: one who holds that under the gospel dispensation of grace the moral law is of no use or obligation because faith alone is necessary to salvation

2
: one who rejects a socially established morality

Just to be sure here and before I am falsely accused again I said those who hold to the perseverance of the saints are not antinomians...
So, then, Christians are obligated to keep God's law, then?
Please clarify this point for me, because there seems to be some confusion.

I have no idea weather or not these people you are referring to know the meaning behind the word. I would hope if they were using it they would though.
You mean you did not realize that you had people following you?
Well, Hun...you do. I've read that quote of yours many times this week....and I questioned one of your disciples as to the meaning of antinomian. I was pretty sure he didn't have a clue....and what do you know! He didn't.
Hopefully, he has taken my advice and Googled it by now...or perhaps, since he is your ardent admirer perhaps he will read this exchange of ours....
 

justaname

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The Barrd said:
I believe with all of my heart that OSAS is a false doctrine made up by men. The original first century church would not have recognized it. It came along with Calvinism...which is also false.

In that case, it would be best not to sin, wouldn't it? And if...make that when...we do sin, it would definitely be a good idea not to tarry, but to pray for forgiveness at once.

I apologize, Justaname.
When you call someone "Lord", you imply that he is your master....a "Lord" is someone who must be obeyed.
Now, if we defer in this way to human "Lords", how much more should we obey our Lord Jesus Christ?
Yet OSAS claims that such obedience is "works salvation".

Here is the dictionary definition:
antinomian

noun an·ti·no·mi·an \ˌan-ti-ˈnō-mē-ən\

Definition of ANTINOMIAN

1
: one who holds that under the gospel dispensation of grace the moral law is of no use or obligation because faith alone is necessary to salvation

2
: one who rejects a socially established morality

So, then, Christians are obligated to keep God's law, then?
Please clarify this point for me, because there seems to be some confusion.

You mean you did not realize that you had people following you?
Well, Hun...you do. I've read that quote of yours many times this week....and I questioned one of your disciples as to the meaning of antinomian. I was pretty sure he didn't have a clue....and what do you know! He didn't.
Hopefully, he has taken my advice and Googled it by now...or perhaps, since he is your ardent admirer perhaps he will read this exchange of ours....
In respect to the OP I am not answering this post...

You can address these questions in the OSAS thread...


Shalom!