God's Word

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Ricky W

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Protecting me Allah(God), from the evil(satan) that You already cursed.In the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.In this thread please allow me to more questioning about christian teach. I do hope you guys still pleasent to be asked by me
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.The question is, does all of the verse in the Bible was come from GOD ? Or is it all the verse in the bible was God's Word ?For the answering of it, i shall say thank you
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.Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
 

Rasta

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Jul 12, 2007
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(Ricky W;12582)
Protecting me Allah(God), from the evil(satan) that You already cursed.In the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.In this thread please allow me to more questioning about christian teach. I do hope you guys still pleasent to be asked by me
smile.gif
.The question is, does all of the verse in the Bible was come from GOD ? Or is it all the verse in the bible was God's Word ?For the answering of it, i shall say thank you
smile.gif
.Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
I am not a Christian, but I used to be, so I'm confident I can answer this one.Ricky, they belive the same thing you do. God did not write the Bible per-sey (as in phisically writting it). He inspired men, who with divine knowledge were able to write down god's intentions. Much in the same way that you believe the Quran was revealed to Mohammed. Both are from "contact" with the god of Abriham.
 

Tama

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(Rasta;13420)
I am not a Christian, but I used to be, so I'm confident I can answer this one.Ricky, they belive the same thing you do. God did not write the Bible per-sey (as in phisically writting it). He inspired men, who with divine knowledge were able to write down god's intentions. Much in the same way that you believe the Quran was revealed to Mohammed. Both are from "contact" with the god of Abriham.
God used people to write His Word to the man-kind.It is God-breathed and is tried, researched, & verified by history proffessors of different denominations and religions (even atheists). Everything written in there is a work of thousands of years.
 

Rasta

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God used people to write His Word to the man-kind.
So you agree with me.
It is God-breathed and is tried, researched, & verified by history proffessors of different denominations and religions (even atheists). Everything written in there is a work of thousands of years.
What has been verified? The assumption that it is from god? Or that the Bible is thousands of years old?I will contest to the latter.
 

Tama

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So you agree with me.What has been verified? The assumption that it is from god? Or that the Bible is thousands of years old?I will contest to the latter.
Yes, it has been verified to be a truly collection of Books from different centuries, counries, nationalitis, etc. If you do some research you will see historical data with handwritings matching referenced timelines. Old testament prophesies were fullfilled hundreds of years later. Every one of God's promises was fulfilled accordinly to time and place promised. New Testament referes to Old testamnet and Old Testament refers to New TEstament even though written thousand + years apart. God said He will be silent for 400 years, and He was. Book of Zachary was written 400 BC and Mathew Luke and Mark wrote thir books 50-60 AD In the Old testament times there were people who dedicated their lifes to copy scriptures. They had to written on skins of clean animals, with black in, every letter had to be exactly a hair-width apart from each other, and if a single mistake was found - the whole skin had to be thrown away and re-copied.. Those guys lived in their rooms their whole lifes just to copy scriptures. And if the King would to come in and speak to one of them while they are writing, they were Not To stop untill the skin is finished.
 

Bamp;#39;midbar

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(Rasta;13420)
I am not a Christian, but I used to be, so I'm confident I can answer this one.Ricky, they belive the same thing you do.
Based on my simple knowledge of Islam, I fear I must disagree with you. The Muslim's understanding of how the Qur'an came to be and the Christian's understanding of how the bible came to be seem to be different. From my perspective, it seems more like the entire Qur'an is believed to be the exact Arabic words that were given to Mohammad. It sounds like the words were dictated to Mohammad, and that then he recited the words to others, rather than writing them. His followers did the actual writing of the words. This description does not match the Christian concept of how the bible was written. I'll let Tama and others describe the Christian idea. And, of course, Ricky will correct my simplistic understanding.
 

Wakka

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Jun 4, 2007
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God did write the Bible. The person at that time was probably in a trance, when God wrote the pages through them.And by Bible, I mean the original scrolls.
 

Rasta

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I was not disagreeing with you Tama. When I say "I contest to the latter.", that means out of the two sentances that I provided I agree with the second one. Yes I have studied the origins for Judism, Christianity, Islam, and others.Tama wrote
Every one of God's promises was fulfilled accordinly to time and place promised.
This is not true, one example will suffice. In Jesus speech "on the mount", when talking about his return he says, (parphrasing) "Verily I say unto you, I shall return with in the life time of you standing here."Unless you have sufficiant evidence that one of these people yet lives, this is obviously false.B'midbar wrote
Based on my simple knowledge of Islam, I fear I must disagree with you. The Muslim's understanding of how the Qur'an came to be and the Christian's understanding of how the bible came to be seem to be different.
I don't entierly agree with you. I do sort of, but not in the context of what Ricky origionaly asked.Ricky wrote
The question is, does all of the verse in the Bible was come from GOD ? Or is it all the verse in the bible was God's Word ?
In that way they were revealed in the same manner, how they got from mind to paper is the only difference. This is only a percieved difference however, no where in the Bible does it specifically say who wrote what. The idea that Solomon himself wrote (some of) the text is only a guess. He could have dictated it to a scribe to write.So I don't really see the point to your objection. If I'm missing something obvious here, please let me know.
 

Wakka

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(Rasta;13431)
Or that the Bible is thousands of years old?
The fact that King David and King Solomon were actual kings, and it can be archaeologically and historically proven. These people in the Bible weren't made up.
 

Rasta

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Wakka wrote
God did write the Bible. The person at that time was probably in a trance, when God wrote the pages through them.
The key word in that sentance is probably. Your guess is as good as my guess.Though I would posthulate that god didn't have anything to do with it. More likely it was a bronze age tribe trying to justify their bloody conquest of their "Holy Land".
 

Rasta

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(Wakka;13445)
The fact that King David and King Solomon were actual kings, and it can be archaeologically and historically proven. These people in the Bible weren't made up.
I'm sorry if you percieve my statements are argumentative. I think you are not understanding my words. I will state it again, perhaps I was being vauge.I do not disagree that the Torah is thousands of years old.I would like to see the archeological and historrical evidence that proves both Solomon and David's exsistence. I was under the impression that it did not exsist.I'd like to be wrong on that last point however.
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Bamp;#39;midbar

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So I don't really see the point to your objection. If I'm missing something obvious here, please let me know.
Indeed, we do know that some of the NT was dictated to a scribe, for example. That is not the issue that I was curious about. I mentioned scribes to be complete in my description, so that someone could correct me if I had my facts wrong. The difference is that Mohammad was given the exact words of the entire Qur’an. There is no human element in the words in that case, I surmise. No human devised the sentences or chose the vocabulary or thought they were just writing down their thoughts or recalling their memories of Jesus.Usually Christians describe the human element in a different manner (like, there is one). Different authors, vocabulary, historical settings, etc. are in view. Often it is written clearly like the human is speaking (“To the rest I say – I and not the Lord”). So, that a Muslim was asking if the bible came from GOD made me wonder if he was indeed asking about the difference in human element. I thought that possibly could be crucial to him, and so it would need to be addressed and made explicit. Maybe the Qur'an is filled with Muhammad speaking, but I didn't recollect that from when I read it years ago (in English translation).You’re quite right though, his question may not have this in mind at all. This has been a topic of curiosity to me, and so my mind zoomed off in that direction, and what I’m curious about is reflected in the post. Thanks for your patience with me!
 

Rasta

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I am sure different people believe different things. Much like all things in christianity. When i was a christian, my church taught that the bible were the exact words of god. Go to another church, however, and the holy spirit probably directs them in a different direction.
 

Wakka

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Well. They are the exact words of God. And anything else is blasphemous and idolatrous.
 

Rasta

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Well. They are the exact words of God. And anything else is blasphemous and idolatrous.
Really? Please explain why there are differences in different translations. Why does the catholic bible contain more verses than others? Who decided to take some of god's exact words out of the bible?
 

Faithful

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Hello everybody,It is an interesting question, but I feel the bible must be seen as a book read by people with faith. The answer to the questions would be answered differently by the believer and atheists. The bible itself teaches. Psalm 12:6-7 (King James Version) 6.The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7.Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.2 Peter 1:20-21 (King James Version) 20.Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21.For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.I believe when we see what God himself says and we look at the apostles. We see these words continually in action and being fulfilled. Real living words.In Ephesians we are told Ephesians 6:17 (King James Version)17.And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:In every age the Sword of the Spirit has been the word of God. I believe we can trust every word of God and live by it, in the sure knowledge that the Spirit is still imparting the word of God in the heart and soul of those who belong to God through faith in Christ.If we look at what the bible says, the word of God is clearly preserved by the Holy Spirit indwelling in men to teach them.
 

Ricky W

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I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.Wow, it's been running until 2 pages, i'm not realize this
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. Sorry for questioning this, but why rasta must be banned ?Ok, from the question that i've been asked before, i have a view of point from you guys christians
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and others ofcourse :1st. It came from wakka (wakka)
Well. They are the exact words of God. And anything else is blasphemous and idolatrous.
Are you sure that all verse in the Bible was from God, and it was God's Word ?And if that so, could you show me, what is your base/which verse that has made you to gave that opinion ?2nd. It came from tama(tama)
God used people to write His Word to the man-kind.It is God-breathed and is tried, researched, & verified by history proffessors of different denominations and religions (even atheists). Everything written in there is a work of thousands of years
So you mean is, that every verse in the bibe was God's Word or Come from God entirely ?3rd. It came from B'midbar(B'midbar)
Based on my simple knowledge of Islam, I fear I must disagree with you. The Muslim's understanding of how the Qur'an came to be and the Christian's understanding of how the bible came to be seem to be different. From my perspective, it seems more like the entire Qur'an is believed to be the exact Arabic words that were given to Mohammad. It sounds like the words were dictated to Mohammad, and that then he recited the words to others, rather than writing them. His followers did the actual writing of the words. This description does not match the Christian concept of how the bible was written. I'll let Tama and others describe the Christian idea. And, of course, Ricky will correct my simplistic understanding.
On Islamic perspective on Quran has path like this wayThis is how the Quran come :God(Allah) -> dictate His Words to Gabriel -> dictate to Prophet Mohammad -> dictate to His Followers, Invidel, Jewish, Farsi, Christian at his life time.Some of his followers were memorize it, and everything that Prophet been dictated is been note/write by his Sahabah(Close friend of the prophet).God(Allah) -> dictate His Words to Prophet Mohammad -> dictate to His Followers, Invidel, Jewish, Farsi, Christian at his life time.Some of his followers were memorize it, and everything that Prophet been dictated is been note/write by his Sahabah(Close friend of the prophet).I don't know wheter recited is the right word or not to use it. But the point, what is the redaction of the Quran from God through Gabriel to Mohammad and to his followers, was the same redactional to what is in now.So if you said "rather than writing them", I think this wasn't correct.4th. It came from Non Christian(rasta)
Ricky, they belive the same thing you do. God did not write the Bible per-sey (as in phisically writting it). He inspired men, who with divine knowledge were able to write down god's intentions. Much in the same way that you believe the Quran was revealed to Mohammed. Both are from "contact" with the god of Abriham.
Well i guess what you has said is not true, what B'midbar has said is more closely what the moslem believe rather then your opinion
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.Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
 

Ricky W

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I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.(faithful)
Psalm 12:6-7 (King James Version)6.The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.7.Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
May I asking you about this verse ? Hopely you can answer it, number by number like the way i'm using it in questioning you
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.1st. By using those verse Psalms(12 : 6-7) are you saying that all verse in the bible right now, wheter in OT nor NT was God Words ?2nd. By seing Psalms 12:7, that mean every Word that in the bible will be always being use all the time until the end of days, is that correct ?
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Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
 

Bamp;#39;midbar

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3rd. It came from B'midbarOn Islamic perspective on Quran has path like this wayThis is how the Quran come :God(Allah) -> dictate His Words to Gabriel -> dictate to Prophet Mohammad -> dictate to His Followers, Invidel, Jewish, Farsi, Christian at his life time.Some of his followers were memorize it, and everything that Prophet been dictated is been note/write by his Sahabah(Close friend of the prophet).God(Allah) -> dictate His Words to Prophet Mohammad -> dictate to His Followers, Invidel, Jewish, Farsi, Christian at his life time.Some of his followers were memorize it, and everything that Prophet been dictated is been note/write by his Sahabah(Close friend of the prophet).I don't know wheter recited is the right word or not to use it. But the point, what is the redaction of the Quran from God through Gabriel to Mohammad and to his followers, was the same redactional to what is in now.So if you said "rather than writing them", I think this wasn't correct.
I meant that Mohammad did not write anything down. Other people did the writing, like Sahabah. Is this correct?Also, you wrote it two ways, once with Gabriel and once without. May I ask why? Is it that Gabriel was only sometimes part of the process?
 

Faithful

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(Ricky W;13572)
I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.May I asking you about this verse ? Hopely you can answer it, number by number like the way i'm using it in questioning you 1st. By using those verse Psalms(12 : 6-7) are you saying that all verse in the bible right now, wheter in OT nor NT was God Words ?2nd. By seing Psalms 12:7, that mean every Word that in the bible will be always being use all the time until the end of days, is that correct ?
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Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
Hello Ricky,1st. Are there evidence of the words in the old testament and new testament being true, today.God promised Abraham to give him more descendants that sand on the seashore. We see the evidence of this promise all over the world today, in Jew of physical circumcision and Christians of circumcison of the heart.Jesus says, If you believe in me, you will do what I do, yea ye shall do even greater things than I.Today his followers are healing the sick, raising the dead and men and women know God.So are they Gods words? God said if any man says he has said anything he never said he would prove him a liar. God never shown Christ to be a liar.So is Gods word in the OT and NT spoken by the prophets, Christ and the apostles true? He has not shown them to be liars? So clearly they must have spoken the truth.2nd. By seing Psalms 12:7, that mean every Word that in the bible will be always being use all the time until the end of days, is that correct ?
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Jesus said, Heaven and earth may pass away but my words shall never pass away. 2,000 years and men and women still repeating the words God spoke through Christ our Lord.Deuteronomy 18:18-21 (King James Version)Moses said to the people what God told him to say. 18.I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19.And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. 20.But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. 21.And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?22.When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.Did Jesus not speak about the fall of Jerusalem in 70ad. Did he not rise from the dead three days later and then after forty days ascend into heaven.I believe the evidence shows Gods word will never pass away.Faithful.:angel9: