God's Word

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Ricky W

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I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.(B'midbar)
I meant that Mohammad did not write anything down. Other people did the writing, like Sahabah. Is this correct?
Oh I see now
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, yes you are correct, but with order from Mohammad to write it down by sahabah, not initiative from the sahabah it self.(B'midbar)
Also, you wrote it two ways, once with Gabriel and once without. May I ask why? Is it that Gabriel was only sometimes part of the process?
If you ask me why, I don't know for sure, God Knows Best. Actually if you asking me like that, that mean you're asking how come God speak to Moses, and to some others prophets with Holy Spirit(Gabriel).Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
 

Bamp;#39;midbar

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(Ricky W;13664)
I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.Oh I see now
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, yes you are correct, but with order from Mohammad to write it down by sahabah, not initiative from the sahabah it self.If you ask me why, I don't know for sure, God Knows Best. Actually if you asking me like that, that mean you're asking how come God speak to Moses, and to some others prophets with Holy Spirit(Gabriel).Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
Thank you for your answer, Ricky.
 

Ricky W

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I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.Thanks for your time to helping me answer the question faithful
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.1st. So the question of my first Question that's mean true right
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, that Bible with all the verse inside of it was God Words ?2nd. From your second answer above, that mean it is true that every word, that God has revealed Must be done by His Followers so the word will always consist, correct ?
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Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
 

Faithful

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Hi Ricky,The true followers of God heed his prophets words. Jesus Christ is the prophet that Moses and the prophets of the Old Testament spoke about.We see that we must heed the words of Christ and that God will make those that don't answerable to him.
Ricky: If you ask me why, I don't know for sure, God Knows Best. Actually if you asking me like that, that mean you're asking how come God speak to Moses, and to some others prophets with Holy Spirit(Gabriel).
Where in the Koran or the Holy bible does it teach that the Holy Spirit is Gabriel?I have never found anything in either bookthat teaches this.
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Ricky W

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I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful. (Faithful)
Hi Ricky,The true followers of God heed his prophets words. Jesus Christ is the prophet that Moses and the prophets of the Old Testament spoke about.We see that we must heed the words of Christ and that God will make those that don't answerable to him.
Hello to you too Faithful1Btw, I don't know which one of your response that answering my question before, because i'm trying to discuss what i'm questioned it. And I do hope you can focus on the question that I asked you or anyone in here
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.How ever your argument above was depent on each one interpretation, a moslem also their own interpretation on the verse in Torah, and again it depent on how or where you look at it
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. I respect on what you believe, but i have my own opinion about the verse that you show me regarding on your statement above.(faithful1)
Where in the Koran or the Holy bible does it teach that the Holy Spirit is Gabriel?I have never found anything in either bookthat teaches this.
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It is in Moslem literature, and it is in Quran/Koran.Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
 

Ricky W

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I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.(B'midbar)
Thank you for your answer, Ricky.
You are welcome B'midbar
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.Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
 

Faithful

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I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful. Hello to you too Faithful1Btw, I don't know which one of your response that answering my question before, because i'm trying to discuss what i'm questioned it. And I do hope you can focus on the question that I asked you or anyone in here
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.How ever your argument above was depent on each one interpretation, a moslem also their own interpretation on the verse in Torah, and again it depent on how or where you look at it
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. I respect on what you believe, but i have my own opinion about the verse that you show me regarding on your statement above.It is in Moslem literature, and it is in Quran/Koran.Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
Hi Ricky,Is it written in Koran as you have said it. Or does muslim literature explain it as meaning this in the Koran?Is there not a contradiction where one passage attributes the word being given by Gabriel and then another says it is the HS but men attribute these mistakes to refer to be it meaning Gabriel being both?
 

Ricky W

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I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.(Faithful)
Hi Ricky,Is it written in Koran as you have said it. Or does muslim literature explain it as meaning this in the Koran?
Both.(Faithful)
Is there not a contradiction where one passage attributes the word being given by Gabriel and then another says it is the HS but men attribute these mistakes to refer to be it meaning Gabriel being both?
Yes I know that, because he trying to ask from moslem perception, that's way I giving to them the interpretation of HS according to moslem, however HS was one of the three person, which the person was has a different job.That can also make them understand
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.Again i see you are trying to blur what I'm trying to ask to all christian
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.I need to focus on what I'm ask. If you don't mind faithful you can mail me, because we are goint out of topic because of what we are doing here. So i do need your cooporation to go back on focus
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. I hope you can do that.Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
 

Amy

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Aug 7, 2007
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Hi Ricky,May God give me His wisdom and protection!I see that a lot of my brothers and sisters in Christ have tried to answer your, not so tough questions and that too with Biblical references but nothing seem to satisfy you, therefore I will use logic and comparison.You do believe being a muslim that Quran was revealed to your Prophet and him only, that too over 23 years. The first 4 verses of Quran were revealed in 'gar-e-hira' and then the verse kept coming till next 23 years and the quran was compiled under the supervision of your prophet. In 23 years, as and when the verses came, the prophet used to have sahabas write it for him. The sahabas were nominated by the prophet himself to do the job. These nominated sahabas / scholars are also known as 'katib-e-quran' (the ones who wrote quran). Did you also know that your prophet could not read or write and that can be proved by historical references?Lets talk about The Bible. My brother Wakka has very rightly pointed out to you that bible was revealed to many not just one person. Many of them were historians of that time, kings and commoners. God spoke to these people in visions. They would go in trance and once the vision was over they would state each and everything on scrolls which are till today very much here in this world and can be seen by visting musemums.Now lets do the comparison. Quran was only revealed to one person where as Bible was revealed to many. That means, that Bible could not be a propoganda of one person, more over God choose who ever at His will to write whatever was being revealed. It was left NOT left to prophet to nominate a team of sahabas / scholars, not even Jesus himself. So you see no grouping or segregation either. Bible was written under the supervision of God Himself and not like you told us that Quran was written under the supervision of Prophet himself. One also wonders, how can someone who can not read or write can actually supervise?You also asked that the number of verse vary from one Bible to another, refering to Catholics. Till today muslims fight about the 'tafseer' translation of Quran. You must know why shia and sunni can never sit together. The point is that as per shia belief (which they never declare openly) part of Quran was eaten by a goat. That part mentioned 12 Imams. Now if they openly declare this they will be rejected to be called muslims just like mirzais. Hence every cast within the same umberella of religion may have difference in opinion. We are just humans. Coming back to my point, if this is not true where in Quran is it mentioned about those Imams that shias believe so strongly in? Another thing could be that it is an error of translation / tafseer. So you see there can be errors or simply not errors but just the perception of something. Translations vary and are highly dependent on the language, culture and society - region, which always leave a trace. I wonder why is it so difficult for you to understand that just like Quran, original scriptures of Bible do exsist !This is why we have no Blasphemy laws in our Christian States as we believe what belongs to God can not be protected well by any human BUT God himself. That is why we have freedom of speech and not the death plenty. We leave the judgement to God and God only.May God show you light, bless you !
 

Ricky W

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I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.Dear amy,I do really want to response and discuss what you have written above, but perhaps i will not soon on respons and discuss this kind of mater
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.But just for you to know and understand, what i'm asking in here is not a matter of satisfying or not satisfy, but i need to know by logically and sure about your faith. Because I do really know each of human being has a different interpretation on how they understand theire written scripture. But as an outside member, ofcourse i will asking by outside viewing. I'm asking question in here not just because i'm looking for the answer but also using how my friends in the same faith seeing the same question that i asking you guys
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.However, with due all respect if there is my written that not polite or pleasent to you, i personally ask for your appologize amy
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.Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
 

Amy

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Dear Ricky,If what I said has not made any sense to you then I am afraid nothing will ever. I have broken down everything to it's core for you to see LOGIC but if you are in a phase of denial then no one can help you but God. Pray for yourself; for God (not allah) to show you the light. If you are really in search of truth there is no reason that you shall not find it. Otherwise, don't twist things to create chaos as it is not the way of God.May God bless you with His wisdom
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(Ricky W;15264)
I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.Dear amy,I do really want to response and discuss what you have written above, but perhaps i will not soon on respons and discuss this kind of mater.But just for you to know and understand, what i'm asking in here is not a matter of satisfying or not satisfy, but i need to know by logically and sure about your faith. Because I do really know each of human being has a different interpretation on how they understand theire written scripture. But as an outside member, ofcourse i will asking by outside viewing. I'm asking question in here not just because i'm looking for the answer but also using how my friends in the same faith seeing the same question that i asking you guys
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.However, with due all respect if there is my written that not polite or pleasent to you, i personally ask for your appologize amy
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.Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
 

Ricky W

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Jun 6, 2007
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I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.Dear amy,I don't saying that your argument was non sense nor make sense, i just said that i would try to discuss it with you about what you has been written before
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. And about what i'm denying is not on what your friends has given to me, but actually it's because on what you have accusing me by your below :I see that a lot of my brothers and sisters in Christ have tried to answer your, not so tough questions and that too with Biblical references but nothing seem to satisfy you, therefore I will use logic and comparison.Then i answering by this kind of statement below : But just for you to know and understand, what i'm asking in here is not a matter of satisfying or not satisfy, but i need to know by logically and sure about your faith.If you seing what i'm trying to do with my dear friends faithful on my question, is to get his/her surely answer(is it Yes/No, true/wrong ?) but I haven't got any they certain answer, yes indeed he/she gave an answer using biblical but, he not give a certaint answer on what i asked by numbering.So amy, one another thing when you give a comparison to what is in the islamic base, i see something that not on my view on how you describe in viewing on islamic base, so to explain this kind of matter, i feel not right to do so in this forum, because i want to stick on the rule that my dear friend Denver has give a notice at the begining in this sub forum
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.And again ofcourse i need your permission especially denver or others christians to allow me to give what i know in Islam it self. And why i cannot give you directly explaination on it, that because i still have a work to do in my office. So i need time to seek the answer of your nice writings before.So be patient, i hope i can share what is in my head in this beloved forum
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Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
 

Amy

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(Ricky W;12582)
Protecting me Allah(God), from the evil(satan) that You already cursed.In the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.In this thread please allow me to more questioning about christian teach. I do hope you guys still pleasent to be asked by me
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.1. The question is, does all of the verse in the Bible was come from GOD ? 2.Or is it all the verse in the bible was God's Word ?For the answering of it, i shall say thank you
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.Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
Answers:1. Yes2. YesSimply because you are what you say and what you say is your words.
 

Amy

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(Ricky W;15365)
I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.Dear amy,I don't saying that your argument was non sense nor make sense, i just said that i would try to discuss it with you about what you has been written before. And about what i'm denying is not on what your friends has given to me, but actually it's because on what you have accusing me by your below :I see that a lot of my brothers and sisters in Christ have tried to answer your, not so tough questions and that too with Biblical references but nothing seem to satisfy you, therefore I will use logic and comparison.Then i answering by this kind of statement below : But just for you to know and understand, what i'm asking in here is not a matter of satisfying or not satisfy, but i need to know by logically and sure about your faith.If you seing what i'm trying to do with my dear friends faithful on my question, is to get his/her surely answer(is it Yes/No, true/wrong ?) but I haven't got any they certain answer, yes indeed he/she gave an answer using biblical but, he not give a certaint answer on what i asked by numbering.So amy, one another thing when you give a comparison to what is in the islamic base, i see something that not on my view on how you describe in viewing on islamic base, so to explain this kind of matter, i feel not right to do so in this forum, because i want to stick on the rule that my dear friend Denver has give a notice at the begining in this sub forum
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.And again ofcourse i need your permission especially denver or others christians to allow me to give what i know in Islam it self. And why i cannot give you directly explaination on it, that because i still have a work to do in my office. So i need time to seek the answer of your nice writings before.So be patient, i hope i can share what is in my head in this beloved forum
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Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
Permission for what? Perhaps to twist the facts? My friend, we as christians are not allowed on other muslim forums to even question your faith as it is considered blasphemy. This kind of liberty is only enjoyed in Christianity. It is Islam that has zero Tolerance not Christianity. If your intentions are for pure learning, it will be imparted to you but if you are here to create chaos, sure enough it will be dealt accordingly.I am patient for I have found peace with my Lord, Jesus Christ my Saviour
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May God save your soul too, Amen !
 

Faithful

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Ricky W:wrote: But just for you to know and understand, what i'm asking in here is not a matter of satisfying or not satisfy, but i need to know by logically and sure about your faith. Because I do really know each of human being has a different interpretation on how they understand theire written scripture. But as an outside member, ofcourse i will asking by outside viewing. I'm asking question in here not just because i'm looking for the answer but also using how my friends in the same faith seeing the same question that i asking you guys .
1 Corinthians 2:12-15 (King James Version) 12.Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13.Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14.But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15.But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.That which is spiritually discerned cannot be received by you Rick W.The word of God shows that the men of God who are guided by the Holy Spirit speak the truth. For clearly you have understood nothing as your posts confirm and all the brothers and sisters here clearly show that even at all levels of their walk in Christ, they each have truth.The word of God can and is understood as each person reaches maturity in the Spirits fruit and gifts. We are lamps which must be tended and refilled on a continual basis with the truth of the Spirit, trimming away the old wick and revealing the new. The testament to the truth of the bible is clearly shown in this thread. For you do not understand the things of the Spirit of God.The only way you could come to know the truth of God is by obeying that which he revealed through the true prophets who belong to him. To accept Jesus Christ as the saviour and promised Messiah for the salvation of the world. You faith is based in fear to keep you believing. Ours is based on faith and love as given and taught by God through his Son Jesus Christ. A freedpm to walk in the knowledge and Love of God, without being afraid.Faithful.
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Ricky W

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I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.(Amy;15369)
Answers:1. Yes2. YesSimply because you are what you say and what you say is your words.
Thank you for your answer, this is what i'm looking for. And i'll keep this kindly answer in my mind
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.To Faithful:The verse that you gave, actually you already give it to me, and yes i do understand that verse, but as i said to amy before, i need you to answer explicitly about my question yes/no or true/wrong according to my question on yours. And thanks to Amy, she give what i need to know explicitly.Amy's wrote :permission for what? Perhaps to twist the facts? Response :Twist facts ? I don't know what you are up to by saying this, however i want to tell you that what you have wrote upsthere by considering it was Islam, i feel that what you has wrote need to be clarify. Because this forum was christian forum ofcourse as a good member i must stig on the rule that the admin has made. Meanwhile in this opening thread Danver has given a notice to me(non christian member), and you can read it at the opening in this subforum, then you will understand why i need your permission nor Denver to allow to explain on my faith.Amy's wrote :My friend, we as christians are not allowed on other muslim forums to even question your faith as it is considered blasphemy. This kind of liberty is only enjoyed in Christianity. It is Islam that has zero Tolerance not Christianity. If your intentions are for pure learning, it will be imparted to you but if you are here to create chaos, sure enough it will be dealt accordingly.Response :Dear my friend amy. It's too subjective opinion if you saying like the one above. If you really want to asking about Islam Faith and really with the heart of finding the truth, you will be my quest to question it at this forum [url="http://masjid.phpbb24.com]http://masjid.phpbb24.com[/url] it is indonesian language, but in that forum we provide for english forum in questioning Islam faith.And just for you to understand why perhaps some of the islamic forum not allowed questioning our faith, thats because the forum was indeed not using to debate the islamic faith, and not just that, the facts is some of yours(christian believers) indeed did a blasphemy, i often dealing with this kind of christian so i think what you has said is sorry(blunder). But once again, if you really want to spent your time in it, you may visited and registered to the link that i gave, me and others brothers of mine will be pleasure to helping you to understand Islam hopely
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.Take a look on your statement that i bold, still in this forum, you can see is not like the way you said. There are person who was banned because of doing so, so i think according to your only opinion, you are not watched on what you has said my dear friend. I give an example, Rasta (this username has been banned if i'm not mistake) so comparing to your statement above, is it liberty exists in christians ?Your pinked written, it is so accusing on Islam. But i will patient on it, because I was as a guess in here, i just hope may God (Allah) give you His Clue to you. Christian Arabs often saying Allah for God, just for you to know.Your written blue, i do hope i'm not creating chaos in here, because that was not what i'm attend. I'm often to asking you guys if there is of my writings that doesn't pleasent you all, please don't hesitate to tell me, i will appologize for it and i will make a clarification in here. I think wakka, kriss, thesuperjag, knows well what and how i am in here
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.Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
 

Amy

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Dear Ricky,Every word I wrote about Islam is true, logical and above all RAW FACTS. You have no permission to insult God but you need no permission to talk from facts. Rasta for your information was NOT banned because of YOUR thread. He called God an ape in another thread started by him. You have just provided a link of another forum on this forum. How many forums allow that? Tolerance my friend !I don't feel the need to learn Islam. I have studied it for 12 good years. I am not asking questions by randomly picking verses and using one against another. I have my facts very straight about Islam which did not impress me much. Quran was written under the supervision of your prophet, you said it yourself. A prophet who could not read and write himself. Otherwise, enlighten me me with his educational qualifications? The fact is he was not even a historian ! If muslims believed that quran was written by God and handed over to prophet, I would think miracles do happen. But the fact is Quran was written under the supervision of an ILLITERATE man. Have you ever read the Bible? My recommendation to you is FIRST read Bible 3 times on own with an open heart and pray that God will show you the way. You need not wisdom of men to understand the Bible. And PLEASE don't claim that you have read it because your questions are too obvious. I myself use to call God Allah and confuse the two. Growing up under islamic influence can be confusing but as we grow in Christ, the difference is too obvious.Anyone who talks from facts need not to be banned or hanged as per blasphemy law.Regards,-Amy(Ricky W;15466)
I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.Thank you for your answer, this is what i'm looking for. And i'll keep this kindly answer in my mind
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.To Faithful:The verse that you gave, actually you already give it to me, and yes i do understand that verse, but as i said to amy before, i need you to answer explicitly about my question yes/no or true/wrong according to my question on yours. And thanks to Amy, she give what i need to know explicitly.Amy's wrote :permission for what? Perhaps to twist the facts? Response :Twist facts ? I don't know what you are up to by saying this, however i want to tell you that what you have wrote upsthere by considering it was Islam, i feel that what you has wrote need to be clarify. Because this forum was christian forum ofcourse as a good member i must stig on the rule that the admin has made. Meanwhile in this opening thread Danver has given a notice to me(non christian member), and you can read it at the opening in this subforum, then you will understand why i need your permission nor Denver to allow to explain on my faith.Amy's wrote :My friend, we as christians are not allowed on other muslim forums to even question your faith as it is considered blasphemy. This kind of liberty is only enjoyed in Christianity. It is Islam that has zero Tolerance not Christianity. If your intentions are for pure learning, it will be imparted to you but if you are here to create chaos, sure enough it will be dealt accordingly.Response :Dear my friend amy. It's too subjective opinion if you saying like the one above. If you really want to asking about Islam Faith and really with the heart of finding the truth, you will be my quest to question it at this forum [url="http://masjid.phpbb24.com]http://masjid.phpbb24.com[/url] it is indonesian language, but in that forum we provide for english forum in questioning Islam faith.And just for you to understand why perhaps some of the islamic forum not allowed questioning our faith, thats because the forum was indeed not using to debate the islamic faith, and not just that, the facts is some of yours(christian believers) indeed did a blasphemy, i often dealing with this kind of christian so i think what you has said is sorry(blunder). But once again, if you really want to spent your time in it, you may visited and registered to the link that i gave, me and others brothers of mine will be pleasure to helping you to understand Islam hopely
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.Take a look on your statement that i bold, still in this forum, you can see is not like the way you said. There are person who was banned because of doing so, so i think according to your only opinion, you are not watched on what you has said my dear friend. I give an example, Rasta (this username has been banned if i'm not mistake) so comparing to your statement above, is it liberty exists in christians ?Your pinked written, it is so accusing on Islam. But i will patient on it, because I was as a guess in here, i just hope may God (Allah) give you His Clue to you. Christian Arabs often saying Allah for God, just for you to know.Your written blue, i do hope i'm not creating chaos in here, because that was not what i'm attend. I'm often to asking you guys if there is of my writings that doesn't pleasent you all, please don't hesitate to tell me, i will appologize for it and i will make a clarification in here. I think wakka, kriss, thesuperjag, knows well what and how i am in here
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.Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best
 

Ricky W

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I seek refuge in God, from Satan the rejectedIn the name of Allah(God), Most Gracious, Most Merciful.Ok amy, just considered what you have wrote is true eventhough i'm not agree with you on how you describe what in Islam is.Once again I will try to focus on the question that I asked
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.Before this, you already give a straight answer with yes on the question that I give it to all members in this forum, and i say thank you for that
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.Now regarding on what you has given at previous answer, now I want to ask about what Paul 'Apostle' has said in this verse :1 Chor 7:25. Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful. Now, how come you can still say all the verse in the Bible was came from God, meanwhile Paul 'Apostle' him self admitted that he doesn't have commandment from the Lord by the time he giving thoses word ?2 Chor 11: 16. I say again, let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little. 17. That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting. In that verse also Paul 'Apostle' have admitted him self for what he said was not on God's word, but how come you can still saying what Paul 'Apostle' considered as God's Word ? Meanwhile the apostle him self doesn't said so.For your warm answer i shall say thank you, and forgive me if what i'm said not pleasent to anyone each of you.Best regards,Ricky WisnadriGod(Allah) Knows Best