Grace is NOT unmerited favor!

[Nancy]

This is NOT saying that God's power is given to us as if we earned it. No, it is a gift from Jesus to those who are truly repentant and cry out to Him for Salvation from our sins. He gives us power. The New Covenant is not Law, but the powerful Spirit of Christ.

Paul's teaching on sin and the Law of Moses was 8 chapters long. Taking any of the chapters from the middle and making doctrines out of them and separating them from the conclusion - chapter 8 - will definitely lead to incomprehensible false doctrines. For anyone to think God shuts His eyes to sin and darkness doesn't know anything about the nature of God. I've seen it done with chapters 3, 4, 5 and 7. Oy vey! Chapter 8 is Jesus took away our sin; therefore no need for the law. The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has freed us from the law of sin and death. Grace is NOT unmerited favor and all the covered up practice of sin that goes with that erroneous definition. Grace is the power of God to partake of the divine nature! 2 Peter 1:2-4

2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Acts 1:
8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you.

Ephesians 3:
7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.

Reading some of the posts on this site makes me shudder!

Listen to Jesus, NOT the the Reformationists!

13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Hmmm...love the post. After reading it, the old thoughts about what grace meant to me are now being questioned.

"Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin." Romans 4:4–8.

I see His grace in the above verse. As for the Lord... we are debtors who cannot pay.
We were bought with a huge price and, I can see that also as being grace unmerited. I will have to go over your post again @CharismaticLady . Thanks for the food for thought.

 

[CharismaticLady]

“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin." Romans 4:4–8.

I see His grace in the above verse. As for the Lord... we are debtors who cannot pay.
We were bought with a huge price and, I can see that also as being grace unmerited. I will have to go over your post again @CharismaticLady . Thanks for the food for thought.

Thanks for the encouragement. I wanted to highlight the verse you used for greater clarification.

Romans 4 is smack-dab in the middle of an 8 chapter build up to the conclusion. Notice the Old Testament verse shows the sins are "covered." That is what the blood of bulls did to our sins under the Law of Moses; just covered them while they still remained. The New Covenant has Jesus completely taking away our sin, not leaving a trace. And unlike the Law of Moses that had to be kept with a carnal nature that fought against it non-stop Romans 7:12-13; once cleansed of all unrighteousness (our old sins) He gives us His Own Spirit, the Spirit of Christ to indwell us. Just like Christ didn't commit any sins, we now have the power to not commit present and future sins of lawlessness. This is powerful and embodies the new nature He gives us making us born again. Romans 8:29. The "works" done are not through any old carnal nature we had to try to earn salvation, but is a natural result of the divine nature 2 Peter 1:2-4. That is why James could use works as proof of true faith.

 

[marks]

No, we are close to agreement at the bottom line, but you still believe we have the old flesh. What does born again mean to you? The old flesh sins.

What are you living in? I mean, the fingers you type with, are they not what was born of Adam? This is your flesh. It is corrupt.

We don't always see ourselves clearly.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Thanks for the encouragement. I wanted to highlight the verse you used for greater clarification.

Romans 4 is smack-dab in the middle of an 8 chapter build up to the conclusion. Notice the Old Testament verse shows the sins are "covered." That is what the blood of bulls did to our sins under the Law of Moses; just covered them while they still remained. The New Covenant has Jesus completely taking away our sin, not leaving a trace. And unlike the Law of Moses that had to be kept with a carnal nature that fought against it non-stop Romans 7:12-13; once cleansed of all unrighteousness (our old sins) He gives us His Own Spirit, the Spirit of Christ to indwell us. Just like Christ didn't commit any sins, we now have the power to not commit present and future sins of lawlessness. This is powerful and embodies the new nature He gives us making us born again. Romans 8:29. The "works" done are not through any old carnal nature we had to try to earn salvation, but is a natural result of the divine nature 2 Peter 1:2-4. That is why James could use works as proof of true faith.

Continue to read.

Blessed is the man to whom sin is not imputed.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

What are you living in? I mean, the fingers you type with, are they not what was born of Adam? This is your flesh. It is corrupt.

We don't always see ourselves clearly.

Much love!

Hi brother.

Paul uses the word "flesh" in two different ways. The one you see is our body of muscle and bone. But Paul also uses it to describe the carnal nature within.

Read Romans 8:9. How can we be out of our body of flesh while still living? We've gone over this time and again. What is there you are not seeing???

 

[CharismaticLady]

Continue to read.

Blessed is the man to whom sin is not imputed.

Much love!

Again, it is an Old Testament quote for those making sacrifices that cover the sins while under the law.

 

[marks]

Hi brother.

Paul uses the word "flesh" in two different ways. The one you see is our body of muscle and bone. But Paul also uses it to describe the carnal nature within.

Read Romans 8:9. How can we be out of our body of flesh while still living? We've gone over this time and again. What is there you are not seeing???

I'd suggest you read every instance of 'sarx' (flesh) in the New Testament, and then tell me, where it is used specifically of something not our body.

Many places the context is very clear that sarx is the meat, our bodies. Thinking of the "flesh nature" as if it were some force outside of ourselves, as if somehow counterpart to the Holy Spirit, is in my opinion a mistake.

When I define a word in Scripture, I look for the Bible itself to show me the meaning, and it does. Every context that gives the clear sense agrees, and should be uses for every passage that does not give that same clear sense.

The unambiguous is used to interpret the ambiguous.

The corruption of the flesh is damage to our bodies that prevents us from living the humanity God intended for us to live before sin.

I've been taught the other way a long time, but I don't believe it's Biblical, it doesn't make sense, and this way does. At least it does to me.

But seriously, do like I've done. Look at every instance of the word, sarx, also include 'soma', body. It may prove very enlightening. Let the Scripture form the meaning of the word in you mind, and then go back and read those passages.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

When you read the whole passage, you will see that Paul is making a contrast between those who have an those who have not been born again.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Seriously! It makes whole lot more sense this way.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Again, it is an Old Testament quote for those making sacrifices that cover the sins while under the law.

There's more to it than that.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I'd suggest you read every instance of 'sarx' (flesh) in the New Testament, and then tell me, where it is used specifically of something not our body.

Many places the context is very clear that sarx is the meat, our bodies. Thinking of the "flesh nature" as if it were some force outside of ourselves, as if somehow counterpart to the Holy Spirit, is in my opinion a mistake.

When I define a word in Scripture, I look for the Bible itself to show me the meaning, and it does. Every context that gives the clear sense agrees, and should be uses for every passage that does not give that same clear sense.

The unambiguous is used to interpret the ambiguous.

The corruption of the flesh is damage to our bodies that prevents us from living the humanity God intended for us to live before sin.

I've been taught the other way a long time, but I don't believe it's Biblical, it doesn't make sense, and this way does. At least it does to me.

But seriously, do like I've done. Look at every instance of the word, sarx, also include 'soma', body. It may prove very enlightening. Let the Scripture form the meaning of the word in you mind, and then go back and read those passages.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

When you read the whole passage, you will see that Paul is making a contrast between those who have an those who have not been born again.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Seriously! It makes whole lot more sense this way.

Much love!

What is born again? Our nature or our body?

 

[CharismaticLady]

There's more to it than that.

It is still out of context from the whole. Chapter 8 is the conclusion of a different kind of way to no longer be under a law that required sacrifice.

 

[Behold]

So *in effect* we are choosing to do good works all the time in order to qualify for Salvation. 1st!

This is nonsense, that you just wrote.
God does not require you to make promises of doing good works subsequent to being born again = to quality you for the shed blood of Jesus that is the GIFT of SALVATiON.
Do you know what a Gift is? You are teaching the nonsense that God's Gift of Salvation requires you to quality for it.
If God required you to qualify for Grace then it would not be GRACE, in fact by trying to do that, would disqualify GRACE.
Grace is MERCY, its not related to your bizarre idea of being WORTH SAVING, by self-Qualifying.

 

[mjrhealth]

I'm mad only because of the false doctrines out there that people gobble up are leading people to hell. I don't want that! Ignorance may be bliss for them, but it will end, and be too late.

Yes there is a lot, but you have not right to get mad.

 

[mjrhealth]

That is true, but we are no longer under the law of Moses, but the law of the Spirit. We are not lawless! THAT is what I've been trying to show you.

we are under Grace, Love and the Spirit are not a law, Laws where written for BAD people, but LAws dont stop people from being bad, just condemns them so they can be imprisoned, There is no condemnation for those in Christ, because we have no laws. He came to set us free. not imprison us.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yes there is a lot, but you have not right to get mad.

Show me what you are offended by, and I will edit it.

 

[CharismaticLady]

we are under Grace, Love and the Spirit are not a law, Laws where written for BAD people, but LAws dont stop people from being bad, just condemns them so they can be imprisoned, There is no condemnation for those in Christ, because we have no laws. He came to set us free. not imprison us.

Please answer these questions to see if we are close to being on the same page, or not even in the same book.

What did Jesus free us from? Only the law of Moses, or the ability to commit sin also.

What commandments is John referring to in 1 John 3:21-24?

 

[mjrhealth]

Show me what you are offended by, and I will edit it.

Offended by what. ???? Nothing to be offended by,

 

[mjrhealth]

Please answer these questions to see if we are close to being on the same page, or not even in the same book.

What did Jesus free us from? Only the law of Moses, or the ability to commit sin also.

What commandments is John referring to in 1 John 3:21-24?

The same book or Christ?? Which is your preference...

 

[CharismaticLady]

Offended by what. ???? Nothing to be offended by,

You said I sounded mad. Where? I know I do get angry at our church fathers where these false doctrines that are still believed today got started. But I didn't know I was taking it out on forum members.

 

[CharismaticLady]

The same book or Christ?? Which is your preference...

Can you answer the question? What is John referring to? And what did Jesus free us from when John still refers to commandments/laws.

 

[mjrhealth]

Can you answer the question? What is John referring to? And what did Jesus free us from when John still refers to commandments/laws.

Jesus asked us to Love. If you love your brother than you are my disciple.
As for setting is free, Lets see, He set the captives free from prison when He went there at His resurrection, He set us free from the "consequence " of sin, Death, separation from God.

He even gave us life in Him but many prefer theology and teh bible to him

By the way, Christ and God are not legalistic, a command is not a demand its a request, that says. This is good for you.