Grace

[Grailhunter]

Again words mean things. There is a big difference in finding favor with God and being His favorite. The Holy Bible
tells us that King David and Mary the Mother found favor with God...it does not call them favorites.

 

[APAK]

Grace/grace in scripture clearly means the demonstration of spontaneous, selfless kindness towards or purposely for someone’s benefit. To save a life, to bestow gifts, to assist in all types of things that greatly benefits the recipient without expecting anything in return.

The big difference between our own grace and that of our Maker, is the latter is an incalculable grace that endures and is constant. Our's on the other hand waivers from time to time and our grace cannot be compared to the grace of the Almighty one.

Blessings,

APAK

 

[amadeus]

I think sm is referring to when Abba kind of backs away and we feel forsaken, in our walk?

"And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46

 

[Enoch111]

I think the idea of favour can be very misleading.

There you go again concocting your own theology and perverting God's truths.

For the grace* of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men... (Titus 2:11)

Strong's Concordance
*charis: grace, kindness
Original Word: χάρις, ιτος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: charis
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-ece)
Definition: grace, kindness
Usage: (a) grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ, (b) favor, (c) gratitude, thanks, (d) a favor, kindness.
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 5485: χάρις
2. good-will, loving-kindness, favor: in a broad sense, χάρις παρά τίνι, Luke 2:52; ἔχειν χάριν πρός τινα, to have favor with one, Acts 2:47; χάρις ἐναντίον τινας,Acts 7:10; (χάριν κατά τίνος αἴτεσθαι ὅπως (which see II. 2), Acts 25:3 (but others refer this to 3 b. below));χάρις (of God) ἐστιν ἐπί τινα, attends and assists one, Luke 2:40; Acts 4:33; χάριν (χάριτα) χάριταςκατατίθεσθαι τίνι (see κατατίθημι), Acts 24:27; Acts 25:9; favor (i. e. act of favoring (cf. Winer's Grammar, § 66 at the end)), 2 Corinthians 8:4. χάρις is used of the kindness of a master toward his inferiors or servants, and so especially of God toward men: εὑρίσκειν χάρινπαρά τῷ Θεῷ, Luke 1:30; ἐνώπιον τοῦ Θεοῦ, Acts 7:46; τοῦτο χάρις ἐστιν, this wins for us (God's) favor (R. V. is acceptable), 1 Peter 2:19; with παρά Θεῷadded, 1 Peter 2:20; παραδεδομένοι τῇ χάριτι τοῦΘεοῦ, to be committed or commended to the protecting and helping favor of God, Acts 14:26; Acts 15:40....

So here we have a man -- Episkopos -- claiming to be a Christian, claiming to walk in the Spirit, and denying that grace means God's unmerited and undeserved favor to undeserving wretched sinners.

BEWARE OF FALSE TEACHERS AND WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING.

 

[Episkopos]

There you go again concocting your own theology and perverting God's truths.

For the grace* of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men... (Titus 2:11)

Strong's Concordance
*charis: grace, kindness
Original Word: χάρις, ιτος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: charis
Phonetic Spelling: (khar'-ece)
Definition: grace, kindness
Usage: (a) grace, as a gift or blessing brought to man by Jesus Christ, (b) favor, (c) gratitude, thanks, (d) a favor, kindness.
Thayer's Greek Lexicon
STRONGS NT 5485: χάρις
2. good-will, loving-kindness, favor: in a broad sense, χάρις παρά τίνι, Luke 2:52; ἔχειν χάριν πρός τινα, to have favor with one, Acts 2:47; χάρις ἐναντίον τινας,Acts 7:10; (χάριν κατά τίνος αἴτεσθαι ὅπως (which see II. 2), Acts 25:3 (but others refer this to 3 b. below));χάρις (of God) ἐστιν ἐπί τινα, attends and assists one, Luke 2:40; Acts 4:33; χάριν (χάριτα) χάριταςκατατίθεσθαι τίνι (see κατατίθημι), Acts 24:27; Acts 25:9; favor (i. e. act of favoring (cf. Winer's Grammar, § 66 at the end)), 2 Corinthians 8:4. χάρις is used of the kindness of a master toward his inferiors or servants, and so especially of God toward men: εὑρίσκειν χάρινπαρά τῷ Θεῷ, Luke 1:30; ἐνώπιον τοῦ Θεοῦ, Acts 7:46; τοῦτο χάρις ἐστιν, this wins for us (God's) favor (R. V. is acceptable), 1 Peter 2:19; with παρά Θεῷadded, 1 Peter 2:20; παραδεδομένοι τῇ χάριτι τοῦΘεοῦ, to be committed or commended to the protecting and helping favor of God, Acts 14:26; Acts 15:40....

So here we have a man -- Episkopos -- claiming to be a Christian, claiming to walk in the Spirit, and denying that grace means God's unmerited and undeserved favor to undeserving wretched sinners.

BEWARE OF FALSE TEACHERS AND WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING.

All drama aside... (I reported your offensive attitude on this forum...that ironically proves you don't know what grace is)

The bible interprets the bible...
שֶׁקֶר הַחֵן
Grace is deceitful... Prov. 31:30

God has given us some rope...some freedom...some grace...what will we do with it? What did the Israelites do with their salvation? Why did God destroy them? Did they not see more from God than other men? But they were held responsible for it.

Heb. 3:17 And with whom was he provoked for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness?

Jesus said that the towns who rejected Him after seeing His grace would be judged harder than Sodom and Gomorrah.

Mat. 11:23, 24 And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You will be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I tell you that it will be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you.”

To whom much is given MORE is required. More grace...means a harder judgment.

Luke 12:48
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

The red part is about what God has given us.

Teachers will also be judged with a harder judgment. That's the blue part...

The truth is VERY offensive to many....

 

[bbyrd009]

Grace is deceitful... Prov. 31:30

yup

 

[Grailhunter]

And your point...

 

[bbyrd009]

So here we have a man -- Episkopos -- claiming to be a Christian, claiming to walk in the Spirit, and denying that grace means God's unmerited and undeserved favor to undeserving wretched sinners.

I didn't get that impression at all pEnoch, you are talking about two diff things, or a similar thing from two different angles, imo? I would state it that you have chosen to include yourself in a Scriptural "we" that maybe Epi has not, or something maybe. Scripture invites us to adopt certain povs, as can be demoed @ the manipulations around "absent from the body is present with the Lord" and other vv, "Jesus returning," lots of other places

 

[bbyrd009]

And your point...

hmm well mine anyway would be that even if God's Grace is prolly not quite what the proverb is about, Epi's point might be...sort of circling around or maybe the center of "who do you mean when you say 'we'?" When it isn't apparent i mean? "When We All Get to Heaven" who is that we? So iow it is maybe easy to identify yourself as __________ verbally--even seems like you got a v or two for that, huh...ha, boy does that one turn on ya lol--anyway, and next thing you know Grace has been man there's a v for this, maybe trampled, brb

 

[bbyrd009]

"And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Matt 27:46

a most curious thing for a willing sacrifice to say wouldn't you say

 

[amadeus]

a most curious thing for a willing sacrifice to say wouldn't you say

Could it be that the flesh of the man, Jesus, really felt deserted? I know already the counter arguments that some will make here, but the ones that most insist on scripture will probably be hard put to support their ideas with scriptures. Rather simply more of this kind of response: "Believe because I do and because the majority of main stream Protestants do. No beliefs of cults [and anyone who disagrees is part of a cult] will be considered".

 

[bbyrd009]

Could it be that the flesh of the man, Jesus, really felt deserted? I know already the counter arguments that some will make here, but the ones that most insist on scripture will probably be hard put to support their ideas with scriptures. Rather simply more of this kind of response: "Believe because I do and because the majority of main stream Protestants do. No beliefs of cults [and anyone who disagrees is part of a cult] will be considered".

Ah, ya. First i would say that "cult" is not "bad" seems to me, cultus is um the way we all get there? Everyone comes from behind a certain tree right? I have some tree here that i can't prolly even see right (and you can, side road). The oaks of Mamre was a place to be from, you have to come from somewhere, i found Nehushtan in Temple Oaks Baptist Church in Houston Texas and i got baptized by bro Ronnie Starr--a really beautiful person btw, just exuded love--and i aint even got a garage, you can call home and ask my wife

So, ya, let ppl be ppl i think, if Roman Centurion's daughters can even be raised all that you say kind of becomes I dunno at least secondary? A new batch are coming tomorrow right?

 

[bbyrd009]

I will tell you what people come looking for; what our souls crave.
Walk out your front door and leave town broke, trusting Abba for everything
The ultimate drug

 

[Nancy]

Grace is the empowerment of the other. It's isn't just favour. God has no favourites and neither should we. I think the idea of favour can be very misleading.

God's grace consists of giving us the power to do His will. The power to walk in the Spirit. To bask in His presence in love, joy and peace. To enter into His kingdom. To do what we can't humanly do for ourselves. Grace is that we partake of His life.

And for us showing grace to others is to pass on that life, in the gift of miracles, healings, divine patience, love and kindness. Always with the idea of empowerment. Freely we have received.....freely we give.

Man's way is the opposite....it is to seek to have power and control over others. To bring others into submission and bondage.

But agape love sets others free and equips them in righteousness so they are given the strength to stand in faithfulness to the calling in God.

"And for us showing grace to others is to pass on that life, in the gift of miracles, healings, divine patience, love and kindness. Always with the idea of empowerment. Freely we have received.....freely we give."
I was just about to write something along these lines but you beat me to it! And, said it better anyhow, lol.
The parable of the unforgiving servant always comes to my mind when I think of extending the grace that God gave me, to others.

 

[bbyrd009]

Could it be that the flesh of the man, Jesus, really felt deserted?

I think He was making a representation myself, yeh
nice

 

[amadeus]

Ah, ya. First i would say that "cult" is not "bad" seems to me, cultus is um the way we all get there?

But where the word came from and what people use it for now are hardly the same, are they? To be in a cult now is according to the way many bearing the name "Christian" use it is an evil place to be. Of course, when we consider how many bearing the name "Christian" manifest themselves [in un-Christ-like manners?], we could have a problem with that usage [Christian label] as well. I should learn your shorthand my friend as it may turn out to be a better means of communication.

Everyone comes from behind a certain tree right? I have some tree here that i can't prolly even see right (and you can, side road). The oaks of Mamre was a place to be from, you have to come from somewhere, i found Nehushtan in Temple Oaks Baptist Church in Houston Texas and i got baptized by bro Ronnie Starr--a really beautiful person btw, just exuded love--and i aint even got a garage, you can call home and ask my wife

That was not shorthand but rather a studious grouping of apparent untruths which might really be truths for the unknowing. Of course, what do I know?

So, ya, let ppl be ppl i think, if Roman Centurion's daughters can even be raised all that you say kind of becomes I dunno at least secondary? A new batch are coming tomorrow right?

So then are you saying that anyone could have been in that place if God had so empowered them? That certainly must be wrong for He would have had to have performed some kind of a miracle...!? Well if as you say a new batch comes tomorrow to include more crucified and resurrected? Are we communicating yet? Help us dear Lord!

 

[Acolyte]

"Meet John Doe"

Its Jane actually.

 

[amadeus]

I think He was making a representation myself, yeh
nice

Yes, perhaps representing what a true believer in God should be doing... loving God seemingly without the presence of God as a witness. Everyone wants the advertised rewards without being willing to give or even to be the necessary sacrifice.

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." Rom 12:1

 

[amadeus]

So here we have a man -- Episkopos -- claiming to be a Christian, claiming to walk in the Spirit, and denying that grace means God's unmerited and undeserved favor to undeserving wretched sinners.

BEWARE OF FALSE TEACHERS AND WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING.

This presumes that you speak God's truth without error to point your finger like this.
It would appear to me rather that you do not understand what you think you understand.

 

[Enoch111]

It would appear to me rather that you do not understand what you think you understand.

And it would appear that you did not understand how Episkopos tried to undermine the meaning of grace. So tell me what I did not understand? Or do you agree with him that grace is NOT divine favor?