Graham: Romney's Mormonism Doesn't Bother Me

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Foreigner

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I know where you stand on voter ID.

Which is why, if you read my post, you see I overwhelmingly addressed the content of the article, not anyones opinion on the article.
 

HammerStone

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Aspen, with boots on the ground in my home state, I think that's hardly the reason. I will say - and in the interest of not igniting a powder-keg on here - that I think Romney's problems were part lack of charisma (see the Thursday night debate gaffe on his taxes - and do note it's not that's he's rich or is currently taxed at 15% as the issue, but that it appears he potentially has something to hide) and a perhaps to a larger degree, issues with aspects of the current status quo. It's not just the news media, but it's a constant issue that Gingrich has raised that's hitting politically-uncorrect traction.

Most of the criticisms I heard were "Obama-lite" as opposed to "that Mormon."
 

aspen

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Aspen, with boots on the ground in my home state, I think that's hardly the reason. I will say - and in the interest of not igniting a powder-keg on here - that I think Romney's problems were part lack of charisma (see the Thursday night debate gaffe on his taxes - and do note it's not that's he's rich or is currently taxed at 15% as the issue, but that it appears he potentially has something to hide) and a perhaps to a larger degree, issues with aspects of the current status quo. It's not just the news media, but it's a constant issue that Gingrich has raised that's hitting politically-uncorrect traction.

Most of the criticisms I heard were "Obama-lite" as opposed to "that Mormon."

I believe it. He looks like a candidate that will say anything to get elected. However, Gingrich is morally bankrupt - so I am not sure who republicans are supposed to vote for.
 

HammerStone

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People are flocking to Gingrich because anger is building below the surface. I think that's a trait of Americans - there is a certain threshold that will be tolerated when things are not right - anger is only slowly built up when things persist. Right now its kindling, the TEA parties were only the beginning of actual frustration. They've lost momentum because they were loosely associated and lacked true leadership. Elements of OWS were also part of this, though it decidedly went in a different direction as to how it should be handled as time progressed.

The Republican field is not offering what people want. I think tonight's vote was a total repudiation of Romney more than necessarily a vote for Gingrich, if that makes sense. The only reason, I think, it was Gingrich over Santorum is that Gingrich voices the problem much more loudly and a little less polictically correct. Ron Paul is not hitting traction because of his foreign policy views. (I think Americans would be happy with a compromise somewhere between the mainstream and Ron Paul's foreign policy involving less war, they just don't want to go that far.)

I think this election is exposing a very serious and very deep rift in this country between two competing ideals - and it would probably be more apt to call them cultures at this point. Romney pays lip service to the fight, but Gingrich is more of a firebrand. Santorum surged because he initially was aggressive, but then began to back-track and tack the other way when he said too much and the media caught on.

I think we've passed the point of truly moral, respectable persons at the Presidential level. (And none of us, myself included, are perfect of course.) However, the dearth of truly good leaders in all arenas are just no longer emerging because you're going to be all-but-crucified by the other side. We're left regurgitating the same families - Bush's, Clinton's, Romney's etc with the occasional outsider who turns out to be an insider and part of the same system.

I frankly don't see a good end in sight and worry for the children coming into this world, but life is still good in many ways and God is still in control.
 

aspen

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Well, if you look back on the histories of our Presidents.....only a handful were good leaders. All were conservatives and all were concerned with the welfare of the rich, white landowner. Well, with the exception of Carter, who sucked for every other reason.

bitter? meh
 

Foreigner

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The Republican field is not offering what people want. I think tonight's vote was a total repudiation of Romney more than necessarily a vote for Gingrich

-- Bingo.
Republicans find themselves with a poor choice of candidates.
It is a matter of selecting the lesser of two evils in order to, at the time of the general election, again select the lesser of two evils.



Apparently Romney's Mormonism is bothering Christians in South Carolina - they chose a hypocritical, serial cheater over him. 40% to Romney's 28%

-- Your political insight is, at best lacking.
Romney didn't lose SC because of his Mormon faith. He lost it because he has given the impression there is something to hide about his tax returns, had pathetic performances in the last two debates, and has not addressed the concerns voiced by the Dems about his role within Bain.

That's not just my opinion. It is the opinion of the pundits at CNN, FOX, MSNBC, etc.

The fact that Romney won New Hampshire and came in a close second in Iowa (IOWA!) shows that his faith - at least so far - is not an issue.


As far as Gingrich being a "hypocrite" you are absolutely correct. He was indeed.
Leading the charge to have a President removed from office for having an affair, while you yourself are having an affair is the height of hypocrisy.

Almost as bad as lying under oath before a grand jury to destroy the reputation of the woman you were using for sex, in order to rescue your political career.


And as far as "serial cheater?" Again, absolutely correct. He was indeed.
But he confessed, admitted it was his own fault, did not try to blame someone else, sought forgiveness, turned to God and has sought redemption.
And unlike Clinton, at least his extra-marital sexual encounters were consensual. http://www.alamo-girl.com/0262.htm

Why am I bringing Clinton into this? Because, from what I can see of your politics, you likely supported him.
This even though his activities - while he denied them - were well known during his campaign.

If you supported Clinton then and continued to support him, even after Monica Lewinsky and paying $850,000 to Paula Jones to make her sexual harassment case 'go away'......but are now critical towards Gingrich for sexual relations that did not involve a crime, well.....there's a word for that.
 

twslisa

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I absolutely respect Billy Graham. And I have to say Romney's lifestyle and values are reassuring. BUT...

As I understand the Bible, there is one God, the eternal, uncreated creator. There are no other gods beside him. He is not a man, and men will never become gods. As I understand the Bible, other so-called gods are demons. As I understand the Bible the coming antichrist will proclaim himself to be god.

Mitt Romney's religion teaches that God was once a man as we are, and that men will become gods. He believes, if he is true to his faith, that he will become a god. As such, his god is not the God of the Bible. His religion teaches something that is so contrary to the Biblical faith that I can't say he worships the Bible's God. And if he isn't worshiping the Bible's God, then he is worshiping a false god. And, while I don't claim he's the antichrist, he holds to a belief that is the antichrist's blasphemy.

If I could vote purely on values and political views, Mitt would be an easy choice. But I can't.

Upshot is I'm not loving any of the choices so far. I just know that if I'm asked to choose the man who will guide my nation's course, I can only choose a man who kneels before the Bible's God, however otherwise flawed that man is. I applaud and admire the morals and values of my LDS friends, and I will absolutely defend their right to believe as they choose. But the day this nation turns from the Bible's God is the day we face the judgment we deserve for all our other failings. If it were any other position, I wouldn't care about Romney's faith. But for the highest office in this nation, I have to choose a Christian, if I can.
 

prism

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The President is to be a leader and Gingrich has shown the best leaderlike qualities during this campaign.
 

aspen

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The President is to be a leader and Gingrich has shown the best leaderlike qualities during this campaign.

Did you like the result of the 1994 Republican Congress? If so, Newt is your man.
 

aspen

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I am just saying that Newt believed in his performance and achievements as a Senator and would continue in that direction as President. If you liked what he did then, voting for him is the correct thing for you to do.
 

PropphecyStudent

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An interesting topic.

Prophetically speaking, we should know that the a/c shall come to power in ~spring 2015~. As such we should expect that the U.S. will turn it's sovereignty over to the U.N. during the term of office of the next president. And where it might be intuitive that the most likely president to do so would be Obama, history tells a different story.


It wasn't a ~peace loving democrat~ that held discussions with Communist China, -- it was the anti communist President Nixon.

It wasn't a ~ liberal Labor party~ Prime Minister who gave the West Bank to the Palestinians, -- it was the conservative Likud Arial Sharon.

It wasn't an ~conservative "hawk"~ who started a war with Lybia, -- it was a ~peace loving liberal~ President Obama.



As such history would argue that it will not be a liberal or moderate who yields our national sovereignty to the U.N., but a staunch conservative, -- possibly Gingrich. For where a liberal would only have ~1/3rd~ the nation behind this decision, a conservative would bring ~2/3rds~. And we should perceive this eventuality given any candidate/party circumstance.
 

avoice

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obama has gone to war against Catholic Church and abortion/contrception
President Obama’s health chief decreed Friday that the Catholic Church must provide its employees with health insurance coverage for contraception, its moral stance against birth control be damned.
Wrong, wrong, high-handedly, obtusely wrong.

Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius took Obamacare’s philosophy of equal insurance for all to a level of zealotry that reduced a deeply held matter of conscience to a bothersome trifle.
Presumably, the President was fully briefed on a decision of this magnitude. If so, he made a fundamental error that will only add to a sense among many faith-based communities that the White House has a thing against religion.

whether one is a fan of the church or not this is a slippery slope to religious freedom

So all those concerned about Mormonism and are getting in Obamas boat better decide if murder is better
 

twslisa

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Gingrich is no gem either. Here's a clip from this editorial:

The worst of them, by far, is Newt Gingrich, who reinvents himself faster than Mitt Romney. And that's no mean trick. Newt appeared in a national TV spot with Nancy Pelosi warning about global warming; now he doesn't believe in it. He advocated an individual mandate for buying health insurance; now he opposes it. He warned that passage of President Clinton's economic plan would cause a recession; now he takes credit for all the jobs created during the Clinton administration. He sucked all the money he could out of Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac; now he wants to shut them down. He was a serial adulterer; now he campaigns as a Christian conservative.​

If Newt has really found Jesus, then at least the last of those shifts could have come from a genuine, spirit-led change of heart. But I'not sure his expressions of faith sound sincere. So far they just sound politician-y.

And so far he's done nothing to show that he has better control over his mouth or temper than he had as speaker of the house. The man lets his mouth run off with him constantly. I think it's reasonable to have concerns about him holding any kind of diplomatically sensitive position, particularly leader of the free world.

An interesting topic.

Prophetically speaking, we should know that the a/c shall come to power in ~spring 2015~.

Have you posted under a different topic WHY you believe this? I wouldn't want to derail this discussion but I am curious.

obama has gone to war against Catholic Church and abortion/contrception
President Obama’s health chief decreed Friday that the Catholic Church must provide its employees with health insurance coverage for contraception, its moral stance against birth control be damned.
Wrong, wrong, high-handedly, obtusely wrong.

Avoice, I agree with you about Obama's stand on Catholic hospitals/healthcare systems. There has to be a way for patients to obtain family planning services without having to force religious institutions to go against the precepts of their faith.

I kinda think the Catholic and other religious healthcare institutions should go "on strike." If they shut their doors, even for a month, the burden on the public healthcare system would rebound viciously, and I think it would force Obama's hand in this. Of course they have to decide whether they are willing to lose billions in patient dollars to make their point. And it's not even that simple. In some rural areas, if the only hospital for miles and miles is a religiously-based institution, if it shuts its doors people die. So they have to weigh the morality of withholding urgent medical care that can't otherwise be found, vs. caving and performing abortions and giving birth control if it violates their moral and ethical values.
 

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Choir Loft
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Franklin Graham: Romney's Mormonism Doesn't Bother Me

Evangelical minster Franklin Graham said voters should look past a candidate’s personal religion when considering whom they should support for office. Graham offered his advice in a recent interview with The Christian Broadcasting Network when asked if Christians could vote for someone who is a Mormon.
Yes, the fact that Mitt Romney is a Mormon doesn’t bother me at all,” Graham told CBN.

Two candidates seeking the GOP nomination for president who are Mormons are Romney and Jon Huntsman. They are members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Graham said voters should select a candidate who is most qualified, beyond anything else.
“You can have the nicest guy and he can be a Christian and just wonderful but have absolutely no clue as to how to run a country, you don’t want that … Mitt Romney is a very capable fellow, I know him. I know Newt Gingrich, another capable person; Michele Bachmann, a very capable lady; Rick Santorum, I like a lot, very gifted guy, a very sharp person and so there are some good candidates out there.”

Graham’s primary concern about the 2012 election is that he feels the country is heading in the wrong direction, saying the next election is “the most critical election of my lifetime.”

The evangelist sees the direction of the country as the number one priority for the next president.

“Our country is heading on the wrong course,” said Graham. “There are millions and millions of people out there that are out of work and there are people out there now that have been out of work so long they are not even looking for work because they are so discouraged.”

Praying for our leaders and our country is what Graham suggested of Christians, saying that irrespective of political party, the country needs elected officials “who will put God’s standards above everything else and who will take us back to the God of our fathers.”

“[O]ur country is going in the wrong direction and we need to make a change.”

http://www.christian...other-me-65240/

Why should it bother Mr. Graham?

His gospel has been watered down and compromised. At one point he denied that the acceptance of Christ was the way to salvation, then after a flood of complaints (and lost revenue), he reversed his statement. Nobody has a really really clear picture of where he stands any more. The man is more into marketing of his 'ministry' than actually holding up a standard.

Then again that's typical for the day isn't it? The rule is - don't make any hard statement and don't really stand up for something. Even the good folk in church don't like that sort of thing. It's too controversial. It makes too many waves. It makes people think unsettling thoughts. Can't have that, you know.

What Mr. Graham does in the voting booth is inconsequential. His opinion is his own right, but when he acts as if he's giving or withholding an endorsement then one must consider his position seriously.

Personally, I'm disappointed in it.

* * *
Personally, I don't pray for our leaders any more. Haven't in years.

Why?

They have sold us out. They have destroyed the finest republic in the history of mankind and I'm supposed to ask for their blessing? I will not.

Listen.
I've heard the clarion call for national prayer for over forty years, give or take a few. Has God answered them according to our intent? Are things today better or worse?

Answer truthfully now, don't just give a knee jerk response.

What do you SEE happening to our country? Liberty or repression? Prosperity or deep depression (denied by the aforementioned politicians BTW), wisdom or foolishness in Washington, DC? Peace or constant war? War is not a blessing from God, I don't care what definition you use, but it DOES benefit the military industrial complex. It doesn't do anything to reward those innocent young men who enter service believing they are doing good - and end up trained murderers in unjust wars - if not something worse. Is this a BLESSING? Answer truthfully.

God has indeed answered the prayers. He has given us the leadership we deserve. You've no doubt heard or read that line before. It's true, though and if you're honest you'll acknowledge it.

If God has not become mean and cruel, then what has changed?

Perhaps it is us. The Great Apostacy is upon us. We care not for the underprivileged among us and because of that our "leaders" are destroying the middle class. The devil rules the media and the entertainment industry. America isn't "amber waves of grain and purple mountain majesties" any more. It's all bombs and guns and war and usurpation of power by crooked politicians and bankers.

At the head of the spiritual flock we have leaders like Mr. Graham who are more than willing to yield the firm gospel position for the sake of political and marketing expediency. Is there a single church leader in this country who has not corrupted himself with money, sex and a "vision" for his ministerial empire. Is there anyone who just cares for God's people? Some, I admit, but they are few -very few- and far between.

Does it matter if Mitt or Newt or Barak is elected? The democrats and republicans are two heads of the same snake. It matters not. What does matter is Jesus Christ and Him crucified...and a firm resolve to follow Him no matter what. People need to hear that, for in that is the only hope we may find in these increasingly dark days.

Consider that, Mr. Graham.
 

prism

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This injunction was given under a despotic government akin to Iran.

"2 1 I exhort therefore, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, thanksgivings, be made for all men; 2 for kings and all that are in high place; that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and gravity." 1Tim2:1

Why turn your back now?
 

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Choir Loft
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While we calmly debate the political advantages and disadvantages of Romney's prayer life, has anyone noticed that Newt Gingrich's campaign is being funded primarily by a Las Vegas mobster?
 

Brother James

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I do not want to live in a theocracy where only people with my personal religious views can rule. I'm fine with different religious views. I would have no problem with a Jewish president, not because I would want a "Christ Rejector" in the White House, that's silly, but because I know the stuff from which that person's formative values came. What bothers me about Mormonism is not that someone has different religious views, but that they accept the fantastical unsubstantiated claims of a single individual who claimed to find golden tablets, translate them (large portions of which are plageurized specifically from the King James Bible - odd for the early 1800's), that Native Americans are descended from Jews who came to the Americas in boats centuries before Christ, that Jesus appeared to them after His resurrection, and God cursed them for rejecting Him by turning them into Indians, and that vast advanced cities of a highly advanced civilization were once on these continents. That in spite of no genetic link between the Indians and Jews, and no evidence of these cities. Not a shred of anything to substantiate the claims of one single man who claimed to be God's mouthpiece to humanity. No other prophet ever claimed to be the only voice of truth - well, except Muhammed, of course. The claims are so fantastical that it is hard to understand how a serious person subscribes to them.
 

prism

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I'm with you Jimmy on that. I can only hope he is a nominal Mormon, perhaps is one only because his parents were Mormon and/or goes to Ward only once in a great while. Otherwise it causes me to wonder how one could take that stuff seriiously and still make competent decisions in other areas of life.